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The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating


george

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My problem with Abhisit is first, that he refused to contest elections, which has brought the whole mess upon us

your better than that ,

this is simply not true

Sorry, but i was terribly disappointed with Abhisit when he decided not to contest in the snap elections. From that moment on i feared that it will all end in a coup. The opposition parties would have gotten enough votes there to properly scrutinize the Thaksin government, and it would have given them enough time to formulate policies. Only a few years, and we would have seen a step towards a real democracy.

Instead, they have played even dirtier than Thaksin, like children that cried foul, and look at the <deleted> mess we have now!

The ISOC is something that we most likely will have to live with for considerable time, and that is maybe the worst thing that could have happened to anyone who wishes democracy and a just society for Thailand.

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dang! do you hear yourself? Abhisit decided not to contest in the snap elections was the right decision. first-the election was rig in your face corrupt, even when the people want them to step down, they play thick skin. How can you compete with that, Abhisit knew they have lost even before it started, why compete with crooks.

bad as it is you still want Thaksin to have a few more year, are you nuts, look at what happen a few back, TRT dis-regard any other party, they only listen to themself and vote for themself, CTX ring to mind, got caught red handed, and he's still innocent because the house say so, there is no fair play, they shut Chuan out without letting him defend himself.

If Thakisn have another few more year, he will become a dictator, he buy off every part on the governmnet.

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My problem with Abhisit is first, that he refused to contest elections, which has brought the whole mess upon us

your better than that ,

this is simply not true

Sorry, but i was terribly disappointed with Abhisit when he decided not to contest in the snap elections. From that moment on i feared that it will all end in a coup. The opposition parties would have gotten enough votes there to properly scrutinize the Thaksin government, and it would have given them enough time to formulate policies. Only a few years, and we would have seen a step towards a real democracy.

Instead, they have played even dirtier than Thaksin, like children that cried foul, and look at the <deleted> mess we have now!

The ISOC is something that we most likely will have to live with for considerable time, and that is maybe the worst thing that could have happened to anyone who wishes democracy and a just society for Thailand.

LOL blame the minority party for insisting on an even playing field!

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LOL blame the minority party for insisting on an even playing field!

An even playing field would have been if the Democrats would have used the many years they had time to formulate policies. They hadn't any, they still don't have any. And that is why they still are not able to get to govern Thailand by popular vote. They will only get to govern Thailand via extra-constitutional support and via coalitions with the most corrupt elements Thailand has. Which basically means that the same thing will happen that always happened - nothing for the villagers in the north and north east.

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dang! do you hear yourself? Abhisit decided not to contest in the snap elections was the right decision. first-the election was rig in your face corrupt, even when the people want them to step down, they play thick skin. How can you compete with that, Abhisit knew they have lost even before it started, why compete with crooks.

bad as it is you still want Thaksin to have a few more year, are you nuts, look at what happen a few back, TRT dis-regard any other party, they only listen to themself and vote for themself, CTX ring to mind, got caught red handed, and he's still innocent because the house say so, there is no fair play, they shut Chuan out without letting him defend himself.

If Thakisn have another few more year, he will become a dictator, he buy off every part on the governmnet.

Every election in Thailand has been corrupt to the core - name one that wasn't. What does it matter if TRT has incorporated the canvasser network, and the Democrats have formed coalitions with parties that embodied that network - it is the same result. Corruption in Thai politics have been there before Thaksin, and will be there after Thaksin. At least TRT has given some back to the rural areas.

People wanted Thaksin to step down? Well, that is what elections are for. Formulate policies, contest on that platform, and let people decide.

The PAD? A vocal minority with very little rural support, and that mostly only from provincial cities. Read the interview with Sondhi Limthongkul on the Asia Times website - there he even confirms that the PAD was mostly urban, and representing the aspirations of the Thai Chinese middle class.

What are you talking about Chuan? Chuan has retired a long time before the snap elections. Abhisit was the candidate, was chosen to head the Democrats after the catastrophic 2005 campaign by Banyat.

What about the CTX scandal? Things like this happened always in Thailand. Chuan 1 government fell because the Sor Por Kor 401 scandal, in which vast stretches of land reserved for the poor were found to be owned by corrupt MPs of the Democrats.

And you can be sure that the same problem still exists, regardless of party, or profession even.

Why on earth would Thaksin have turned dicatator suddenly then, after having formed the government 5 years, having been the first PM in Thailand that has served his full 4 years and was even re-elected.

Like Thaksin or not, and i don't, but people did vote for him. That is democracy.

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Thai PM Says No Early Amnesty For Ousted ThaksinThai Prime Minister

Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said on Saturday his government had no plan to propose early amnesties for ousted Premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his party leaders after they were banned from politics.

Surayud's remarks, made on a TV programme scheduled to be aired later on Saturday, were in contrast with coup leader General Sonthi Boonyaratglin who said he supported the idea of giving amnesties to the exiled leader and his supporters.

"The government will try to find the best solution, but I would like to say that we will not do it at this time," the prime minister said.

On Wednesday, the Constitutional Tribunal banned Thaksin from politics for five years and disbanded his Thai Rak Thai (Thais love Thais) party.

Army chief Sonthi had told state-run Channel 11 television on Friday any amnesty bill would have to be initiated by Surayud and sent to parliament appointed by the military after the coup last September.

Surayud said the army chief's amnesty remarks were his personal opinion. He said politicians and ordinary Thais should take time studying the tribunal's views on the Thaksin case before considering the amnesty issue.

"Everyone should take this period to clearly study the wording of its rulings, and only after that should we look at whether the amnesty is appropriate," he said.

Although Thaksin said from his exile in London he accepted the verdicts and appealed to his supporters to remain calm, there are many flashpoints ahead.

A referendum on a new draft constitution, widely criticised as aimed at reducing the power of politicians in favour of bureaucrats, is scheduled for September and a general election for December.

Thaksin may also face trial on charges of corruption.

- Reuters

============================

Does the UK have Burger King? Thaksin could land a job there perhaps with his previous USA experience and perhaps a letter of recommendation from his McDonalds daughter.

and oh... btw, good to see the early talk of amnesty beginning to fall by the wayside...

Edited by sriracha john
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TRT to publish verdict in English for foreign organizations

Three days after a landmark verdict was handed down by Constitution Tribunal dissolving Thai Rak Thai Party on electoral fraud in April 2006 general election, Chaturon Chaisang, acting leader of the defunct party, said his party would translate the ruling into English and distribute it to worldwide organisations.

Continue here: http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=29692

The English translation of the court proceedings as produced by the TRT Party is now finished:

The Constitutional Tribunal admits to being paid by the Democrats to find them not guilty on all charges. The Constitutional Tribunal also admits that because their calls were dropped while using AIS on at least 3 occasions and that they had 2 bad flights on AirAsia when the PM was the owner of both companies finds TRT guilty and has ordered that 110 TRT officials be banned from politics for the next 5 years.

The TRT Party does not explain in their translation what the other 9 hours and 59 minutes of the court renderings were.

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Maybe it will go back to business as usual. This is a distinct possibility.

And that is the big problem, there we would be back at square one.

Business as usual in the Thailand i remember was life is good in the city, and the upcountry folks have to be happy with what is given to them, and are not supposed to say anything, are good for cutey little folk sort of stuff, so that the ones in the city can feel good about themselves that they live in such a great culture.

Problem though is that things are a bit different, and upcountry folks have seen TRT as the first party that has given them a voice (i know - TRT did not exactly give them much of a voice, but it is a question of perception).

I just don't see the Democrats changing themselves to the extend that they are able to give those upcountry folks a voice, imagined, or even real. Regardless the name - the Democrats are a very conservative party.

We desperately need an alternative to TRT's populist policies, and that is a party that represents these people. If we don't get that very quickly - than things in the future, in a few years, might turn very ugly here.

I am not going to predict things getting as ugly as you mention, nor is my view the same as yours vis a vis the people living in the city, but I did start this conversation saying that the people upcountry need to unify into one, cohesive political voice. That is the only way they can benefit long term, even if this process takes long term. I doubt few would have a problem with this if it is done through the democratic process and by a group which does not have plans to rape and pilage the country along the way.

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TRT to publish verdict in English for foreign organizations

Three days after a landmark verdict was handed down by Constitution Tribunal dissolving Thai Rak Thai Party on electoral fraud in April 2006 general election, Chaturon Chaisang, acting leader of the defunct party, said his party would translate the ruling into English and distribute it to worldwide organisations.

Continue here: http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=29692

The English translation of the court proceedings as produced by the TRT Party is now finished:

The Constitutional Tribunal admits to being paid by the Democrats to find them not guilty on all charges. The Constitutional Tribunal also admits that because their calls were dropped while using AIS on at least 3 occasions and that they had 2 bad flights on AirAsia when the PM was the owner of both companies finds TRT guilty and has ordered that 110 TRT officials be banned from politics for the next 5 years.

The TRT Party does not explain in their translation what the other 9 hours and 59 minutes of the court renderings were.

:o

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In the seemingly endless dispute over numbers:

Organizers claimed more than 15,000 people showed up for the rally, while police estimates said there were fewer than half that number.

"The crowd is around 6,000," an official from the police said.

But rally organizer Jatuporn Prompan said: "More than 15,000 people attended the protest. We plan to hold more demonstrations until elections are held." National polls are expected in December.

- AFP

=============

hmm... perhaps not so honorable men afterall... Sanam Luang was not filled as promised by PTV which Jatuporn himself said would be reason to disband PTV.

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300 gather for counter-rally

Call for tribunal ruling to be heeded

About 300 demonstrators in yellow shirts occupied the Democracy Monument last night to protest against the PTV rally held at nearby Sanam Luang. The group calling itself ''Yellow Shirts United'' converged at the monument less than a kilometre from the PTV rally. It called for respect of the Constitution Tribunal's decision on Thursday to dissolve the Thai Rak Thai party, whose former executives including the PTV leaders have been banned for five years from political activities. PTV president Veera Musikapong said the rally would be transformed into a popular campaign against dictatorship.

In Chiang Rai, about 1,000 kamnan and village heads gathered in the downtown area of Muang district to appeal for compliance with the tribunal's verdict.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Jun2007_news09.php

=======================================

At least now PTV is being more honest about their intentions and seem to be finally abandoning their bogus misrepresentation as some sort of media service...

Edited by sriracha john
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The one track mind anti-Thaksin mob miss the point on the amnesty proposal and Khun Surayud's recent speech for the usual reason that they are unable to consider politics in a broad context.There is no suggestion that those directly responsible for electoral fraud will be pardoned,but there is a growing view that the dissolution of the whole TRT party was an absurdly excessive response, and carries a number of dangers since it is manifestly unjust.

It is also becoming clear that the CNS may have misinterpreted or even ignored HM's remarks to the Supreme Administrative Court judges.We also know that General Sondhi was in cahoots with the Court President the day before the judgement, suggesting a degree of meddling.Anyway all very murky and it is true that there is a bone headed element to the junta's thinking so possibly they will just blunder on.But it's perhaps significant that General Sondhi is talking at the the moment by a "certain individual" who is recommending an amnesty.Watch this space and ignore the ranting from the usual suspects.

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The one track mind anti-Thaksin mob miss the point on the amnesty proposal and Khun Surayud's recent speech for the usual reason that they are unable to consider politics in a broad context.There is no suggestion that those directly responsible for electoral fraud will be pardoned,but there is a growing view that the dissolution of the whole TRT party was an absurdly excessive response, and carries a number of dangers since it is manifestly unjust.

Not sure where you get your information from regarding the "growing view", but yesterdays article in the Nation reads "The verdict has received mixed reactions from political scientists and law professors."

Hardly growing.

It is also becoming clear that the CNS may have misinterpreted or even ignored HM's remarks to the Supreme Administrative Court judges.We also know that General Sondhi was in cahoots with the Court President the day before the judgement, suggesting a degree of meddling.Anyway all very murky and it is true that there is a bone headed element to the junta's thinking so possibly they will just blunder on.But it's perhaps significant that General Sondhi is talking at the the moment by a "certain individual" who is recommending an amnesty.Watch this space and ignore the ranting from the usual suspects.

:o

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Why is everyone so worried about elections? Is pushing back elections that big of a deal? I would much perfer the elections pushed back then to allow TRT off the hook and back into Parliment. How has your life in Thailand changed these last 8 months? How has Thailand changed these last 8 months?

TRT needs to be done away with. The guys on top should be behind bars.

Are you really telling me that they arent going to be find anyone else willing to run for office in Thailand?

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TRT to publish verdict in English for foreign organizations

Three days after a landmark verdict was handed down by Constitution Tribunal dissolving Thai Rak Thai Party on electoral fraud in April 2006 general election, Chaturon Chaisang, acting leader of the defunct party, said his party would translate the ruling into English and distribute it to worldwide organisations.

Continue here: http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=29692

The English translation of the court proceedings as produced by the TRT Party is now finished:

The Constitutional Tribunal admits to being paid by the Democrats to find them not guilty on all charges. The Constitutional Tribunal also admits that because their calls were dropped while using AIS on at least 3 occasions and that they had 2 bad flights on AirAsia when the PM was the owner of both companies finds TRT guilty and has ordered that 110 TRT officials be banned from politics for the next 5 years.

The TRT Party does not explain in their translation what the other 9 hours and 59 minutes of the court renderings were.

I wonder whether the 'worldwide organisations' will include the United Nations, or does Departed Leader's gibe still stand, that they are NOT his father ? :o

Perhaps he now realises better, the potential value of independant international bodies, such as the UN, than he did in the days when they were just an annoying nuisance who disagreed with his esteemed views ? That would be progress.

I wonder how TRT-leadership reconcile their pre-announcement promises, to abide by the verdict of the court without causing any trouble, and their new-found zeal to stir things up for Thailand overseas or hold rallies refusing to accept the verdict?

At least it generates meat for DL's american PR-agency, to try to get more bad-news headlines for his country, in line with his repeated promises to take no further role in Thai politics.

Time to move on.

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Didnt the King say that we must put our trust in the judges and accept their decision?

He said many things and as you would expect emphasized the rule of law.He also called on the judges to prevent the country from collapsing.I think we should draw a line on this discussion not just because of forum rules because it is unfair to attempt debating points from the text of one who has to speak with delicate balance.Let us just say Thailand is fortunate to have such a wise man at its helm.

Returning to the question of an amnesty, this is the subject of an active discussion in the Thai blogosphere.A couple of points to make:

1.The limited amnesty might be a brilliant political move on the part of the CNS, to dish the Democrats and further their own ambitions perhaps in partnership with ex-TRT politicians

2.Related point.A gathering realisation on the junta's part that Abhisit and Chuan might be exceedingly difficult to control.

OK at the moment just Sunday morning speculation but worth monitoring as events move forward.By way of light relief one thinks again of Orwell's Animal Farm. Farmer Thaksin Jones has been banished from the farm to his Knightsbridge apartment.But the coup leaders, the pigs, are forming an alliance with the TRT class enemy, men.Meanwhile the yellow shirted animals look from man to pig, and from pig to man but already it is becoming hard to see which is which.

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Chaturon: I am a second-class citizen

TRT party leader Chaturon Chaisaeng said he will not ask for a royal pardon from the Constitution Tribunal decision that banned him and 110 other party executives from politics for five years for electoral fraud. He said he is being treated as "a second-class citizen" after the verdict. "The verdict strips me of basic rights, which is not acceptable," he said. Before the May 30 ruling, Mr Chaturon vowed to respect the ruling regardless of the outcome.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119171

=========================

:o:D:D

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As I see it ex-TRT members have to potential leaders to replace Thaksin.

Phurachai (under Sanoh Thienthong's faction) and Somkid (under Somsak et al. factions). Now if Somkid's ban remains in place it seems more likely that anti-Democrat vote will be united under Phurachai. This to me is a pretty unhealthy outcome given Phurachai's anti-foreigner, nationalistic, clean-up the streets policies. Somkid is altogether a far more sensible guy and it will be a big shame if he is barred from the elections - he will also effectively neuter Phurachai.

The banning of the TRT executives has created a power vacuum that can allow a third force to emerge in Thai politics - if that third force is Phurachai, it will be bad news indeed.

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PM: 'Of course Thaksin protests'

It is normal that ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra feels the tribunal ruling ordering dissolution of Thai Rak Thai party and banning its executives from politics for five years is too harsh -- after all, he is directly affected by the ruling, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said in a television interview broadcast Saturday. Gen Surayud refused to criticise the ruling. He called on people to study thoroughly the reasons that the tribunal gave for its decisions. "I want everyone to respect the ruling," he said. "There are lessons to learn here. What is wrong should not be repeated."

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119161

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TRT to publish verdict in English for foreign organizations

Three days after a landmark verdict was handed down by Constitution Tribunal dissolving Thai Rak Thai Party on electoral fraud in April 2006 general election, Chaturon Chaisang, acting leader of the defunct party, said his party would translate the ruling into English and distribute it to worldwide organisations.

Continue here: http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=29692

Do they have enough paper? :o

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The one track mind anti-Thaksin mob miss the point on the amnesty proposal and Khun Surayud's recent speech for the usual reason that they are unable to consider politics in a broad context.

It is also becoming clear that the CNS may have misinterpreted

This forum is a microcosm of the way the Thai's think. It does not matter if the judgement was just or unjust, It's changed no ones mind here that I can see and probably has not changed one Thai's either. It's just as polarized now as it was a year ago.

If the CNS wants their referendum to have any chance of passing then they need the support of the TRT voters. At the moment they are losing by at least 15 million votes before they start. They also look more like a dictatorship now than they did on the 29th.

There was a good article/Interview on the Channel NewsAsia's website with Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak of Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

Article

"The Democrat party has been given a huge political windfall, undeserved in my view because all of this fraud, the election law violations that led to this guilty verdict of Thai Rak Thai was instigated I must say by the boycott.

"The Democrat party boycotted the April 2006 election which led to the electoral fraud by Thai Rak Thai, which led to the annulment and so on and so on to the culmination with the coup and then this trial - so political party scene will be realigned. We will see whether Thai Rak Thai - now that it has been dissolved - whether it can regroup.

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300 gather for counter-rally

Call for tribunal ruling to be heeded

About 300 demonstrators in yellow shirts occupied the Democracy Monument last night to protest against the PTV rally held at nearby Sanam Luang. The group calling itself ''Yellow Shirts United'' converged at the monument less than a kilometre from the PTV rally. It called for respect of the Constitution Tribunal's decision on Thursday to dissolve the Thai Rak Thai party, whose former executives including the PTV leaders have been banned for five years from political activities. PTV president Veera Musikapong said the rally would be transformed into a popular campaign against dictatorship.

In Chiang Rai, about 1,000 kamnan and village heads gathered in the downtown area of Muang district to appeal for compliance with the tribunal's verdict.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Jun2007_news09.php

=======================================

At least now PTV is being more honest about their intentions and seem to be finally abandoning their bogus misrepresentation as some sort of media service...

Funny, when i walked by and asked a few of the people gathered at the Democracy monument, they said that they were not demonstrating, this had nothing to do with the PTV demonstration, that they were just there to wish happiness to Thailand. When i asked them who their leader was, they looked around a bit lost, asked some of their friends, and then said it was an Government official.

It appears, now reading this statement, that at least the ones i asked had no idea why they were asked to gather at the Democracy monument.

I wish the Government would make it the next time more clear to the people they ask to gather why and for what they actually gather. :o

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This forum is a microcosm of the way the Thai's think.

Sorry but that is not the case.

Here's my take.This forum reflects the thinking of certain sections of the farang community both onshore and onshore.Not all the expatriate community is well represented:for example relatively few upper level corporate types seem to be present.

The forum is very far from being a microcosm of the way Thais think.

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The one track mind anti-Thaksin mob miss the point on the amnesty proposal and Khun Surayud's recent speech for the usual reason that they are unable to consider politics in a broad context.

It is also becoming clear that the CNS may have misinterpreted

This forum is a microcosm of the way the Thai's think. It does not matter if the judgement was just or unjust, It's changed no ones mind here that I can see and probably has not changed one Thai's either. It's just as polarized now as it was a year ago.

If the CNS wants their referendum to have any chance of passing then they need the support of the TRT voters. At the moment they are losing by at least 15 million votes before they start. They also look more like a dictatorship now than they did on the 29th.

There was a good article/Interview on the Channel NewsAsia's website with Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak of Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

Article

"The Democrat party has been given a huge political windfall, undeserved in my view because all of this fraud, the election law violations that led to this guilty verdict of Thai Rak Thai was instigated I must say by the boycott.

"The Democrat party boycotted the April 2006 election which led to the electoral fraud by Thai Rak Thai, which led to the annulment and so on and so on to the culmination with the coup and then this trial - so political party scene will be realigned. We will see whether Thai Rak Thai - now that it has been dissolved - whether it can regroup.

The vast majority of Thai Visa members are farangs who either live in Thailand or who occasionally travel to Thailand. This forum is a microcosm of how these farangs think. I think there are very few posters here who would be so naive and egotistical to presuppose what most Thais think. We will know how they feel in due course.

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300 gather for counter-rally

Call for tribunal ruling to be heeded

About 300 demonstrators in yellow shirts occupied the Democracy Monument last night to protest against the PTV rally held at nearby Sanam Luang. The group calling itself ''Yellow Shirts United'' converged at the monument less than a kilometre from the PTV rally. It called for respect of the Constitution Tribunal's decision on Thursday to dissolve the Thai Rak Thai party, whose former executives including the PTV leaders have been banned for five years from political activities. PTV president Veera Musikapong said the rally would be transformed into a popular campaign against dictatorship.

In Chiang Rai, about 1,000 kamnan and village heads gathered in the downtown area of Muang district to appeal for compliance with the tribunal's verdict.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Jun2007_news09.php

=======================================

At least now PTV is being more honest about their intentions and seem to be finally abandoning their bogus misrepresentation as some sort of media service...

Funny, when i walked by and asked a few of the people gathered at the Democracy monument, they said that they were not demonstrating, this had nothing to do with the PTV demonstration, that they were just there to wish happiness to Thailand. When i asked them who their leader was, they looked around a bit lost, asked some of their friends, and then said it was an Government official.

It appears, now reading this statement, that at least the ones i asked had no idea why they were asked to gather at the Democracy monument.

I wish the Government would make it the next time more clear to the people they ask to gather why and for what they actually gather. :o

The Chiang Rai rally interests me more. 1000 kamnan and village headmen is a lot. It could be a government inspired rally but Chiang Rai has for long been controlled by a very nasty TRT family invovled in very nasty activities (Shawn Crisipin touched on this and some relief in CR over the fall of TRT in an aritcle some time back). Could their political demise actually be something welcomed up there even if for unjustified reasons? This could get very complicated if unforseen reactions start to occur.

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The Chiang Rai rally interests me more. 1000 kamnan and village headmen is a lot. It could be a government inspired rally but Chiang Rai has for long been controlled by a very nasty TRT family invovled in very nasty activities (Shawn Crisipin touched on this and some relief in CR over the fall of TRT in an aritcle some time back). Could their political demise actually be something welcomed up there even if for unjustified reasons? This could get very complicated if unforseen reactions start to occur.

That is something very difficult to confirm either way, if such protests are spontaneous citicen protests, or government ordered gatherings. Remember Gen. Pallop's statement on the ISOC's 700 000 supporters?

The Government has access to all these very nationalistic state sponsored, armed and unarmed volunteer organizations under authority of mostly Army, Police and the powerful Ministry of Interior (and now under the powerful ISOC, responsible for internal security), so you can clearly expect that use is made of them. This is a network unknown to most foreigners (and even more than a few Thais). You can also expect that this network is going to be used in order to get the new constitution confirmed.

Edited by ColPyat
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Boonklee denies he plans to lead new Thai Rak Thai

Boonklee Plangsiri dismissed a news report on Friday that he will become new leader of dissolved Thai Rak Thai party after it is revived.

Boonklee said he would never enter politics.

Boonklee, a former Shin Corp chief, said he is now running his own business and has not been interested in politics. He is a right hand man of exiled prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

- The Nation

===========================

No word yet if Ho Ching, the CEO of Temasek, will accept the positon.

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