The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating

[hc.sandbergen]

Just take a trip around Thailand and ask the (70-80%) "bahn nock" villagers who they voted for twice, and who they would have voted for yet again if the rug of democracy hadn't been pulled from under their feet. TRT had no need of illegal electioneering.

Indeed. Though there was a need, namely the stalemate caused by a BOYCOTT instigated by the "Democrat" party. No way is my family voting "Democrat" any longer, assuming we even get the chance to vote anytime soon. They're not even worthy of the name.

I know a lot of Thai people in the Isan who were voting for TRT.

They didn't get any money for it what so else.

The way they saw it that was that TRT did something for the poor people and not for the rich in Bangkok

[larvidchr]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

yeahh you are quite right, people cant vote, people cant assemble freely, Television cant send what they want, radio stations cant talk with whom they want, people cant acces all the internetsites they want, people cant speak freely, 14 million members/supporters of a party have just been collectivly made responsible for the actions of 4 or 5 people aso. aso. "Go figure"

[jdinasia]

an honest and straight forward decision ... Thankfully!

Honest, straightforward, what do i know? I didn't understand the ten hour legal blathering, and so did not 90% of the Thai population either. It was a language used way over the head of the majority of the population.

What about the so called aim of healing the "divisions" in Thai society? Todays decision made those even worse.

No today's decision gave an honest and rather transparent reasoning behind EVERY decsion .... will everyone understand? well in some smaller places that don't get papers and don't get radio or TV ... and ONLY rely on the local kanman to tell them what is right ... no in those places people will not understand

The only problem here is that the language used was for most Thais not understandable, mostly a very complicated legal Thai, so detailed that most people just could not concentrate long enough to get the context.

Even several educated people i have asked about that had difficulties to follow, and lesser educated Thais understood nothing. After the first 20 minutes into the statement there were even cheers, as many listeners have misunderstood and thought that both parties were exonerated. The same happened at the end of the sentencing, when at first people cheered, because they thought that TRT was not dissolved.

it was not that difficult in the way of formal language

[jdinasia]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

yeahh you are quite right, people cant vote, people cant assemble freely, Television cant send what they want, radio stations cant talk with whom they want, people cant acces all the internetsites they want, people cant speak freely, 14 million members/supporters of a party have just been collectivly made responsible for the actions of 4 or 5 people aso. aso. "Go figure"

and that is different than under Dr T that controlled the media etc in what way?

oh yeah the difference is that people stood up to him because he was wrong!

[ThaiGoon]

just ask if they woudl have liked to go vote TRT. If most people want to vote for something, can you then label that something un-democratic? (Well, I gues you can, presumably. )

This reminds me of an interview of an old lady in the NorthEast about the drafting of the new constitution I saw the other day on channel 5. (I watched it on a video stream.) The reporter asked if she would vote no or yes on the draft, the old lady said "I will vote no." Then the reporter asked if she knew what's being written in the draft, she said "No I don't. I just watch TV and talk to my neighbors."

[mumbu]

Here is more optimistic estimate of the current situation ( Ihave no commericial interest in Bloomberg.com)

Thailand's Thaksin Banned From Politics, His Party Dissolved

By Beth Jinks and Anuchit Nguyen

May 31 (Bloomberg) -- Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai prime minister overthrown in a coup in September, was barred from politics for five years by a military-appointed court that also ordered his powerful Thai Rak Thai party disbanded.

The nine-judge tribunal said late yesterday that the former premier's party, which won a record 377 of 500 parliamentary seats in 2005, broke election laws in a snap poll last year. The judges, appointed by the junta that ousted Thaksin, imposed five-year political bans on 111 executives of Thai Rak Thai.

Earlier yesterday, the same judges absolved the Democrat Party of offenses including preventing parties from contesting last year's election via a boycott. Members of that party, Thailand's oldest and Thaksin's main opposition when he was in power, will be able to take part in planned December elections.

The ruling destroys the most successful political party in Thai history and probably enables the Democrats to return to power, said Michael Montesano, who teaches Thai politics at the National University of Singapore.

``With the court decision, it appears the junta will feel no pressure to create a political order after they step down,'' he said. ``I think they can be very comfortable with the Democrats in charge after the elections.''

Security Concerns

Thailand's junta deployed more than 10,000 soldiers and police in Bangkok before the verdicts, which Democrat and Thai Rak Thai leaders promised to respect. King Bhumibol Adulyadej warned last week that any judgment ``will damage the country,'' and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said this morning he would order emergency rule if there were violent demonstrations.

``It is certain that people around the country won't accept this ruling,'' Chaturon Chaisang, acting leader of Thai Rak Thai, told supporters at the party headquarters in Bangkok. ``The country is under the rule of military dictators. The country is under a regime that is not acceptable in the international community.''

While several schools in Bangkok were closed because of security concerns, there were no signs of any large protests in the city, with fewer than 200 people gathered quietly behind police barriers across the road from the court. Political parties kept their supporters away from the site.

The split ruling will probably prevent mass demonstrations in the capital, said Montesano. ``By acquitting the Democrats, protests from those who were anti-junta and anti-coup would be fended off,'' he said.

Thaksin Accepts

``Mr. Thaksin has always insisted that he would accept any ruling by the constitutional court,'' Noppadol Pattama, Thaksin's lawyer, said by telephone before the verdict. ``He also made it clear that he will leave politics.''

The tribunal last night found Pongsak Raktapongpaisal, Thaksin's former transport minister, and Thammarak Isarangura Na Ayutthaya, his ex-defense minister, guilty of paying candidates from smaller parties to run in an April 2006 election that was later annulled. The two small parties are the Thai Ground Party and Pattana Chartthai Party, the judges said.

``Only a portion of our members will have to leave politics for some time,'' Pongsak said in an interview with state- controlled Chanel 9 television network. ``It will not affect us much because the TRT party has prepared a lot of young politicians who are ready to compete in the election.''

Bribes

Bribing other candidates to run in the widely boycotted poll helped Thaksin claim victory without having to endure numerous by-elections, according to the judges. The actions of the two ministers benefited Thai Rak Thai and Thaksin, the tribunal said.

Thai Rak Thai paid opponents to run in otherwise uncontested electorates last year to circumvent a rule requiring at least 20 percent of eligible voters to turn up at single- candidate polls to deliver a valid result, said judges.

``Banning those executives is aimed at preventing them from having a chance to cause damage to the country again,'' Judge Krairerk Kasemsant said while delivering the verdict, broadcast on state-controlled radio and television. ``The resignation of the party leader and other executives before today's ruling did not affect the ruling because we don't want them to set a precedent by violating the law and then running.''

The tribunal spent almost six hours delivering the Thai Rak Thai verdict. The earlier Democrat Party verdict took more than four hours.

Popular Party

With staunch support from Thailand's majority rural voters, Thai Rak Thai, or `Thais Love Thais' captured a record number of parliamentary seats in Feb. 2005 elections, delivering the first absolute majority in the country's history and making Thaksin the first prime minister elected for two consecutive terms. The Democrat Party, formed 61 years ago, is Thailand's oldest political party.

Thaksin's overthrow followed months of protests against his rule and the election he called in an attempt to quell them. That vote was boycotted by the opposition and later voided for the charges ruled on today.

Coup leaders have begun separate probes into Thaksin and his administration, alleging he was corrupt and created ``extreme divisions in Thai society''. The interim government has pledged to hold a new election on Dec. 16 or 23.

To contact the reporters on this story: Beth Jinks in Bangkok at [email protected] ; Anuchit Nguyen in Bangkok at [email protected]

Last Updated: May 30, 2007 14:13 EDT situation:

[chanchao]

I don't always agree with you TG ... but I do this time!

.more than half of the country voted democratically for TRT, yet most of the farang here hate them, and don't want them in power.Amazing really.No bias here at all....go the junta!!!

And lets not forget all those villages that recieved 1 million baht from Toxics government, only to find out later that is was in fact given to them as a loan (with interest payable if I am not mistaken), a loan that they never asked for. Personally I call that buying votes, shame these voters didn't understand that before making the X mark. And lets not forget the support at TRT rallies in Bangkok, where most of the attendies were from the North East, how many Baht per head did that cost them.

And still they want to vote for him. The "Democrat" Party has opposed everything, including the 30 baht healthcare for all scheme, grass-roots loans, OTOP.. Yet the people really quite liked it and voted Thaksin back in a landslide! Because they thought "Yeah, Chuan is a smart and likeable guy, but HE never showed he cared about things like healthcare or other programs that help poor people. And on the country as a whole, do we want a smiling

Mr. "let's not offend anyone, better yet, not do anything", or a cut-throat businessman.. They chose the latter, accepting a lot of the negative traits that come with that choice. We may not like it, but that was their choice.

So really it's okay if you don't like Thaksin and for sure I never liked Thaksin and for sure nobody in my family ever voted for him, BUT, I am able to respect the vote of all people whatever their perceived class. It's I guess easier for me as I live in the North.

[Alf Witt]

I don't always agree with you TG ... but I do this time!

.more than half of the country voted democratically for TRT, yet most of the farang here hate them, and don't want them in power.Amazing really.No bias here at all....go the junta!!!

In the US, more than half of the country (or people who voted) voted for Bush in 2004 as well I think. And look at how popular he is at the moment.

The first requirement of democracy is an informed electorate, not one that is systematically deceived and lied to by power seekers.

The cynical manipulation of potential voters is most effective in countries where a majority of the population is of low educational standard.

In considering this issue I can detect absolutely no difference between the USA and Thailand. Neither Bush nor Taksin are true democrats. Both are unashamed abusers of the democratic process.

[TAWP]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

yeahh you are quite right, people cant vote, people cant assemble freely, Television cant send what they want, radio stations cant talk with whom they want, people cant acces all the internetsites they want, people cant speak freely, 14 million members/supporters of a party have just been collectivly made responsible for the actions of 4 or 5 people aso. aso. "Go figure"

You are clearly confused. At first I thought you might not be able to read english but then I saw your 'from'-info.

Here is a hint: disliking TRT doesn't mean one supports the military regime.

Edited May 30, 2007 by TAWP

[chanchao]

just ask if they woudl have liked to go vote TRT. If most people want to vote for something, can you then label that something un-democratic? (Well, I gues you can, presumably. )

This reminds me of an interview of an old lady in the NorthEast about the drafting of the new constitution I saw the other day on channel 5. (I watched it on a video stream.) The reporter asked if she would vote no or yes on the draft, the old lady said "I will vote no." Then the reporter asked if she knew what's being written in the draft, she said "No I don't. I just watch TV and talk to my neighbors."

Dont

Underestimate

..or disrespect..

Upcountry

People...

And how easy is it to throw such an item of 'jounalism'.. Channel 5, the whole channel is actually owned by the army. (Not that any of the other ones aren't being controlled of course). I'm actually particularly disappointed in The Nation newspaper. Read it and compare with BBC, CNN, FEER, Bloomberg and you can't help but get a little suspicious about their cheering of the military junta.

[Abrak]

Now I hope there is another coup.

This government has shown it couldnt run a brewery.

Any elections without 70% of the thai political landscape will be a farce and democracy has effectively been suspended indefinitely. It is a very sad day for Thailand... to think that many people actually welcomed this military junta...

[TAWP]

Now I hope there is another coup.

This government has shown it couldnt run a brewery.

Any elections without 70% of the thai political landscape will be a farce and democracy has effectively been suspended indefinitely. It is a very sad day for Thailand... to think that many people actually welcomed this military junta...

70% of the 'political landscape'? You must be very confused to compare voting-outcome to 'political landscape'. They are not the same.

//Added quote//

Edited May 30, 2007 by TAWP

[chanchao]

And lets not forget all those villages that recieved 1 million baht from Toxics government, only to find out later that is was in fact given to them as a loan (with interest payable if I am not mistaken)

And still they want to vote for him. The "Democrat" Party has opposed everything, including the 30 baht healthcare for all scheme, grass-roots loans, OTOP.. Yet the people really quite liked it and voted Thaksin back in a landslide! Because they thought "Yeah, Chuan is a smart and likeable guy, but HE never showed he cared about things like healthcare or other programs that help poor people. And on the country as a whole, do we want a smiling

Mr. "let's not offend anyone, better yet, not do anything", or a cut-throat businessman.. They chose the latter, accepting a lot of the negative traits that come with that choice. We may not like it, but that was their choice.

So really it's okay if you don't like Thaksin and for sure I never liked Thaksin and for sure nobody in my family ever voted for him, BUT, I am able to respect the vote of all people whatever their perceived class. It's I guess easier for me as I live in the North.

Oops, correction: I just saw you live in Chiang Mai just like me! Anyway then there's really no excuse, step out of your front door and go talk with people.

[solent01]

It's I guess easier for me as I live in the North.

As I do myself

Just noticed that you noticed Lets agree to disagree, and like a poster above has stated, because I am against TRT, doesn't mean I am pro Junta, I simply feel that in the long run this is the best thing that could of happened.

Edited May 30, 2007 by solent01

[teelac888]

this is going to get really juicy, just wait.

for those of you who have not experienced a revolution in Thailand before, think about taking some cash out of the bank, just in case.

[ThaiGoon]

just ask if they woudl have liked to go vote TRT. If most people want to vote for something, can you then label that something un-democratic? (Well, I gues you can, presumably. )

This reminds me of an interview of an old lady in the NorthEast about the drafting of the new constitution I saw the other day on channel 5. (I watched it on a video stream.) The reporter asked if she would vote no or yes on the draft, the old lady said "I will vote no." Then the reporter asked if she knew what's being written in the draft, she said "No I don't. I just watch TV and talk to my neighbors."

Dont

Underestimate

..or disrespect..

Upcountry

People...

And how easy is it to throw such an item of 'jounalism'.. Channel 5, the whole channel is actually owned by the army. (Not that any of the other ones aren't being controlled of course). I'm actually particularly disappointed in The Nation newspaper. Read it and compare with BBC, CNN, FEER, Bloomberg and you can't help but get a little suspicious about their cheering of the military junta.

Yeah they have to support TRT and Thaksin regardless of the facts to be seen as respectable and credible news outlets.

Edited May 30, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[larvidchr]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

yeahh you are quite right, people cant vote, people cant assemble freely, Television cant send what they want, radio stations cant talk with whom they want, people cant acces all the internetsites they want, people cant speak freely, 14 million members/supporters of a party have just been collectivly made responsible for the actions of 4 or 5 people aso. aso. "Go figure"

and that is different than under Dr T that controlled the media etc in what way?

oh yeah the difference is that people stood up to him because he was wrong!

Yes i know the months on end where I could not turn on the tv without seeing a yellow shirted people seducer screaming an never ending stream of abuse against Thaxin on good knows how many tv channels was just a bad dream.

It wasent real since Thaxin held the critical media in an ironfist

And the people standing up to him constituting less than a million middel class citizens in Bangkok, are ofcause the majority in this country never mind the rest 64 million they are cattel anyway, yes?????

Dont get me wrong it is not that I condone currupt politicians, but Thailand got a millitary dictatorship instead, it is like swapping a fleet of big cruiseships for 1 kajak. Wake up, hopefully democracy and freedom for Thailand will come back with all the shortcomings that are inevitable in new democracys. but none of those shortcomings ever justifies millitary power going against their own people with weapons, overthrowing legaly elected and internationally recgonised governments.

Kind regards.

Edited May 30, 2007 by larvidchr

[Austhaied]

this is going to get really juicy, just wait.

for those of you who have not experienced a revolution in Thailand before, think about taking some cash out of the bank, just in case.

<deleted>

[ThaiGoon]

this is going to get really juicy, just wait.

for those of you who have not experienced a revolution in Thailand before, think about taking some cash out of the bank, just in case.

[endure]

Can we keep it civil please.

[chanchao]

Now I hope there is another coup.

This government has shown it couldnt run a brewery.

Any elections without 70% of the thai political landscape will be a farce and democracy has effectively been suspended indefinitely. It is a very sad day for Thailand... to think that many people actually welcomed this military junta...

Well, Bangkok people yes. I've been making snide remarks about sticking flowers on tanks from day one. But who knows, maybe they're actually happy with the way thigns are going? You never know.

Ok final comment (promise! ) : ALL will depend on if a campaign/effort will take place to get people to boycott or vote no to the constitution. The lowest of reasons would be to <deleted> the "Democrats" with a piece of their own medicine, but other than that it may not really gain anyone anything. But IF it happens, for whatever reason (the proposed constitution may be genuinely flawed; it was drafted under junta supervision after all), then you can kiss elections goodbye for the time being.

[kenk3z]

The only way we're going to fix this place is to enter Thailand en masse and take over. Each of you, open up a brower window and buy your tickets right now. We'll meet up at Nana and expand that beach head throughout the rest of Thailand. Power to the People. Thai Rak Farang!

kenk3z

P.S. We have 30 days. Well, maybe we can get 90 days with visa runs. But we absolutely have to take over and show these people how to run their country within those 90 of 180 days. They just aren't getting the impact by following our directions to them on Thai Visa.

[larvidchr]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

yeahh you are quite right, people cant vote, people cant assemble freely, Television cant send what they want, radio stations cant talk with whom they want, people cant acces all the internetsites they want, people cant speak freely, 14 million members/supporters of a party have just been collectivly made responsible for the actions of 4 or 5 people aso. aso. "Go figure"

You are clearly confused. At first I thought you might not be able to read english but then I saw your 'from'-info.

Here is a hint: disliking TRT doesn't mean one supports the military regime.

I might have been a bit to quick there, but please forgive me, it is late.

Kind regards

[solent01]

Now I hope there is another coup.

This government has shown it couldnt run a brewery.

Any elections without 70% of the thai political landscape will be a farce and democracy has effectively been suspended indefinitely. It is a very sad day for Thailand... to think that many people actually welcomed this military junta...

Well, Bangkok people yes. I've been making snide remarks about sticking flowers on tanks from day one. But who knows, maybe they're actually happy with the way thigns are going? You never know.

Ok final comment (promise! ) : ALL will depend on if a campaign/effort will take place to get people to boycott or vote no to the constitution. The lowest of reasons would be to <deleted> the "Democrats" with a piece of their own medicine, but other than that it may not really gain anyone anything. But IF it happens, for whatever reason (the proposed constitution may be genuinely flawed; it was drafted under junta supervision after all), then you can kiss elections goodbye for the time being.

A-ha

Now your making sense, having to postpone the elections would not be a bad thing at all, it would give the opposition a chance to form thier members and get a party going again, Thai's can then unite again as a nation and vote on a level playing field

Edited May 30, 2007 by solent01

[jdinasia]

Now I hope there is another coup.

This government has shown it couldnt run a brewery.

Any elections without 70% of the thai political landscape will be a farce and democracy has effectively been suspended indefinitely. It is a very sad day for Thailand... to think that many people actually welcomed this military junta...

Well, Bangkok people yes. I've been making snide remarks about sticking flowers on tanks from day one. But who knows, maybe they're actually happy with the way thigns are going? You never know.

Ok final comment (promise! ) : ALL will depend on if a campaign/effort will take place to get people to boycott or vote no to the constitution. The lowest of reasons would be to <deleted> the "Democrats" with a piece of their own medicine, but other than that it may not really gain anyone anything. But IF it happens, for whatever reason (the proposed constitution may be genuinely flawed; it was drafted under junta supervision after all), then you can kiss elections goodbye for the time being.

A-ha

Now your making sense, having to postpone the elections would not be a bad thing at all, Thai's can then unite again as a nation and vote on a level playing field

Chanchao ... have you LOOKED at the difference between what is on the agenda now and compared it to the last constitution?

[ThaiGoon]

ALL will depend on if a campaign/effort will take place to get people to boycott or vote no to the constitution. The lowest of reasons would be to <deleted> the "Democrats" with a piece of their own medicine, but other than that it may not really gain anyone anything.

Maybe if TRT (and all their derivatives) put up a couple of brand new billboards telling people that they will give away new awesome Jatukram Ramatep amulets for free to anyone who votes No to the constitution, you wish might come true.

Of course, if that doesn't work, they can always try it again in the upcoming general election (instead of the usual populist policies that previously had put poor people into bigger debts.)

[joskydive]

All I know is, I've never seen a grown man cry until tonight when they announced TRT should be dissolved, believe me, I never want to see it again either. My husband is a Thai Lawyer (so, not stupid and aware of the legal system here) and he hasn't moved from the television since this morning and all he is saying to me is that he remembers 15 years ago when the military were in charge then and doesn't ever want to see that again.

All internet use was stopped, television programmes were monitored and an awful lot of people were killed.

So, irrespective of what we might think of Taxsin, a lot of Thai people love him and not just the uneducated ones at that!

[ThaiGoon]

All internet use was stopped, television programmes were monitored and an awful lot of people were killed.

15 years ago. Hmmm. I don't even remember I ever heard the word, internet, in Thailand 15 years ago. No disrespect, but your hushand must have quite a memory.

Edited May 30, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[SiamSquare123]

there really are alot of misinformed people in this thread. you will not find many intelligent people who did not feel the coup was the only way of setting things straight.

the planned election dates have not been missed.

what is your problem?

[harrisben]

When did the law begin to take into consideration how popular one is? The fact that the TRT would probably have won the next election is completely irrelevant.