The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating

[chuchok]

TRT's tactics where a bit too obvious and the had a maniac leader, but apart from that...

their leader participated in the extra judicial killings of some 2000 people,

and...

and nobody in the current government had anything to do with this either?

[suthnuh]

How can one party be cleared of electoral fraud because those laws no longer apply post-coup, and at the same time another party found guilty under the same laws being retroactvely applied??

The judges spent 10 hours boring us rather than just publishing the whole document and just giving us the verdicts, in an attempt to show how even-handed and legalistic they were being. The least they could have done is sorted out the logic of their decisions!

rych

The reason for the long and full evidence based verdicts was to clarify that some offences are construed {owing to their execution and intent} under different aspects of the legal system. The Tribunal clarified how it would apply the law during the afternoon session and having, as is its right & function, defined the legal framework then applied that rigorously to the charges placed before it in all cases.

I agree with A_Traveller. 101%. The court stated that the charges brought against the Democrat party were legitimate. They didn't say they were guilty of crime because of them. After review, due process, and legal consideration they were acquited of those charges. Charges are just that... charges, not verdicts.

My wife, extended Thai family, and I are all looking forward to 5 years without TRT and the 111 executives. Now maybe Thailand really can become a regional hub of something.

[Grover]

TRT's tactics where a bit too obvious and the had a maniac leader, but apart from that...

their leader participated in the extra judicial killings of some 2000 people,

and...

and nobody in the current government had anything to do with this either?

probably. But the leader is ultimately responsible, especially for something that happened over a long period of time and involving so many deaths.

[pnustedt]

Have I got this right? The constitution was scrapped, and a constitutional court was set up to judge the two main political parties for electoral corruption/fraud. One was found not guilty because the military coup negated the law and the other was found guilty.

Next phase is the presentation of a new constitution to be put to a refferendum.

I think Lewis Carrol could make a better job of running Thailand.

[selftaopath]

How can one party be cleared of electoral fraud because those laws no longer apply post-coup, and at the same time another party found guilty under the same laws being retroactvely applied??

The judges spent 10 hours boring us rather than just publishing the whole document and just giving us the verdicts, in an attempt to show how even-handed and legalistic they were being. The least they could have done is sorted out the logic of their decisions!

rych

Logic??? LOL and

Democracy ?

Keoki

[jayjayjayjay]

No wonder investors are not interested in Thailand any more.

http://www.boi.go.th/english/download/stat.../91/FINV074.pdf

FDI from major countries has increased considerably in all three categories so far this year.

your still trying to convince yourself, do you recall the story about Ostriches with their heads in the sand.... thailand will survive, it's a piece of land, it's a nation of people, BUT OUR NEW FACTORY IS GOING UP IN VIETNAM..... get the reality...... we should have expanded our Thai operatioin, but the infrasture in not being developed by level headed government, the last 12 months have gone without stability or management at a government level whilst Vietnam has offerings beyond belief......all said and done, going going gone.

[sriracha john]

Sorry, just a test. I'm constantly deleted.

TingOfTong

Newbie

Posts: 2

Joined: Today, 2007-05-31 03:22:19

"Constantly??"

You joined 4 hours ago and have made 2 posts..... 1 of which is showing above......

[younghusband]

And one must note that the elections in 2001 and 2005 were the most corrupt free in Thai history, according to Transparency International.

Transparency International clearly never set foot in Isan. The vast majority of TRT voters came from this area, and voted TRT simply because they were in receipt of 300bt/500bt per head to do so. I know -I live here! Most have not the slightest interest in politics -only money! Money for cards, money for lao cow and money for the underground lottery!

If vote buying had been stopped (and it could have been with prosecutions and heavy penalties) we would never have been in the position we are today. TRT would never have had an overall majority .

Very naive post.Vote buying has long been endemic in rural Thailand and certainly wasn't started by the TRT.Economic resources have long been skewed towards Bangkok and urban middle classes, and in a way that kind of "pork barrelling" is far worse than giving poor people a few hundred baht.Anyway the poster misses the point that TRT for the first time gave the rural poor a feeling that someone genuinely represented their interests.They may have been mistaken by this but the genie is out of the bottle now, and the rural majority can no longer be ignored or patronised as the poster does with his "lao cow, underground lottery,gambling" jibe.And by the way just because you live in a place doesn't make you necessarily understand it.You don't seem to.

[cm-happy]

What a load of bulldust!

Oh no. I'm in the shitter so everyone else in world (or Thailand in this particular case) must be as well.

Using a laptop are we?? Better than a magazine or newspaper??

[wolfmanjack]

I am starting a new party.....called Farang Rak Thai.

Sure, I already have the logo:

aaa.. though sadly not on this computer. Will have to wait until Friday.

I had the same idea but Thai Rak Farang. The only thing is I'm not sure wheter I could get any people together to form that party. So I guess I better join yours.

I have seen a lot of taxis with a "I love Falangs" sticker on the back window. They are thai so maybe they can be the base.

[jayjayjayjay]

All internet use was stopped, television programmes were monitored and an awful lot of people were killed.

15 years ago. Hmmm. I don't even remember I ever heard the word, internet, in Thailand 15 years ago. No disrespect, but your hushand must have quite a memory.

As early as 1990 there were about 50 BBS's in Bangkok. Communication was easy, by 1992, the time span referred too here, BBS communication, especially in journalistic world was widespread. I personally do not recall any of the systems being shut down during May 92 coup, but is possible that many did not work due to the military martial law that prevented people from going to work. Early in 1993 I registered with ksc, one of the first subscribers using Pine to communicate via email to friends around the world through Washington University. So no disrespect, but do not challenge my memory.

[ozzydom]

The vast majority of Thais are poor farmers and ,working class famlies who saw their annual household debt treble under Thaksin and TRT, I have eight such workers here finishing a fish pond by hand this morning and I can assure you they could not give two hoots about whats going on.

Their concern is where their next few baht is coming from,these are people with a forgotten past and no thoughts for the future,I got T/w to ask them who they would vote for next election now that TRT was gone,the main of them knew nothing of the court decision,but the consensus was that someone will come and pay them to go vote and get drunk.

They have seen it all before.

It seems to me that many of the posters here are hellbent on voicing their own particular politics which may or may not suit the Thai populace.

Thailand is a developing nation and as is the case all over the world, the few educated and/or rich will control things and the ramblings of a few would be political scientists wont make an iota of difference.

Unless of course you offend the wrong people,then we may all be in deep poo.

[oldhand]

Am I missing something here?

TRT heavies are going to set up a new political party with a new name and install all the young guns that they have been grooming over the past 6 months to a year, they will take up the same popularist policies (pro poor etc.) and run in the election in December (if it is not put back).

To be quite honest I never liked the name Thai Rak Thai as I thought it was somewhat racist and a new evolution of the party with younger and hopefully more in touch MP's could be just what is needed.

[Virgil]

The Constitutional Tribunal disbands Thai Rak Thai

They also revoked the voting rights of the party's 111 executives for five years. The party has committed wrongdoings that have negative impacts on democracy system of the country.

Read: This Muslim Military Dictatorship will be around for AT LEAST the next five years .... to police the decision of the court. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... Thailand will become a Muslim nation. Just watch as the Buddhist heartland to the north and north east gets eroded and emproilled in turmoil. Meanwhile, the current government will eventually take credit for pacifying the south .... and opening the door to the Muslims.

Praise Buddha, our children are being educated in Australia.

Virgil, Out!

[Virgil]

How can one party be cleared of electoral fraud because those laws no longer apply post-coup, and at the same time another party found guilty under the same laws being retroactvely applied??

The judges spent 10 hours boring us rather than just publishing the whole document and just giving us the verdicts, in an attempt to show how even-handed and legalistic they were being. The least they could have done is sorted out the logic of their decisions!

rych

You've hit the nail on the head rych. Welcome to "Animal Farm", Muslim style.

Virgil, Out!

[John K]

After reading all the post verdict posts that happened in the wee hours of the morning I saw a blend of personal opinions being express on all sides. I thought it would be appropriate to place a quick short reminder.

Thaksin always said if he went down he would take people with him.

The charges against the TRT were substantial and real.

The two minor parties were created as tools for the TRT

The charges against the Democrats were hastily created by the TRT as striking back.

Considering what happened to the three election commissioners it was not too hard for many to connect the dots seeing the bigger picture.

Violence cause by TRT to PAD supporters because the TRT position was growing weaker by the day. This too connected a few more dots allowing even more of the picture to be seen that manipulation was the name of the game.

Add in a few more indirectly related events as a fall back position for Thaksin to invoke emergency power the same as in the south like the car bomb that never was and it does not take much to see they were not playing by the rules and now they got caught.

ALL OF THIS WAS BEFORE THE COUP.

What transpired yesterday was the logical conclusion and could not have gone any other way. The lengthy in depth decisions will tend to squelch critics. The judges did what was right for Thailand, and not necessarily for the Junta. If anything the junta added insulation for the judges so they would not be influenced. Given the facts I feel that the US supreme court would have given a similar ruling.

[MarcHolt]

Oh yes, Oldhand, you are missing much more than you think.

A friend rang me this morning talking about the situation. He said he was confused. How could a military government that overthrew a democratically elected government have the gall to throw out that legally constituted political party while claiming to be 'protecting' democracy?

Let's examine the facts here:

1. Thai Rak Thai, led by Thaksin, was democratically elected by an overwhelming majority of Thais
   
2. Yes, Thaksin was corrupt....but no more than the other politicians in Thailand. His big mistake was being so obvious about it...but he wasn't ever one to hide his actions was he? If the Thai people had a problem with that, they should have been given the opportunity to impeach him and try him under the rule of law.
   
3. The country prospered mightily under Thaksin. Thailand repaid the IMF loan ahead of time. Salaries and incomes rose as the economy boomed. The property market boomed and Thais in all economic strata were making money as a result.
   
4. The military currently destroying this country and making it almost impossible for foreigners to stay here have no legal standing, as most Western countries have made clear.
   
5. Investors have voted with their feet....perhaps something the Thais should do by sitting down in front of parliament, or wherever the thieves who stole the country from the Thai people operate from, and raise their feet in the ultimate insult. Perhaps this action might actually get under the thick hides of the boys in green and they will leave. But I wouldn't bet on it.
   
6. Once again we have no Constitution. The rich elite top families pulling the puppet strings are destroying the very country that has given them so many riches. Greed obviously overcomes common sense every time, doesn't it?
   

In fact, there was absolutely no need for this pitiful charade the judges just went through. It was all orchestrated so that the military boys could emasculate TRT and thereby keep themselves in power. Does anyone want to take any bets on when we will actually have elections?

[Virgil]

> The least they could have done is sorted out the logic of their decisions!

There isn't any. They tried to hide it but I think it's clear to all that this verdict was a done deal and handed down from above to judge Somchai.

Keep in mind, the military doesn't WANT stability. They actually want people in the North and North East to boycott (or vote against) the next constitution.. keeps them in power.

It's been an exceptionally sad day for Thailand, and you know what: we've not hit rock bottom yet.

Yes, the worst is yet to come. The North and North East is also the Buddhist stronghold. Expect more hardship from the current Muslim government as they begin converting the country politically, economically and spiritually. As they say, "The skidroads to hel_l begin with a very gentle downhill slide".

Virgil, Out!

[Siripon]

Have I got this right? The constitution was scrapped, and a constitutional court was set up to judge the two main political parties for electoral corruption/fraud. One was found not guilty because the military coup negated the law and the other was found guilty.

Next phase is the presentation of a new constitution to be put to a refferendum.

I think Lewis Carrol could make a better job of running Thailand.

The Constitutional Court was set up after the previous constitution in he 1990s but the members were changed after the coup to include judges from the Supreme Court and The Supreme Administrative court. These judges are regarded as having the sharpest and most resolute legal minds in Thailand.

One reason TRT were banned maybe because both Thammarak and Pongsak were Party List members, without constituencies all theirpolitical activities were for the party rather than constituents.

It's common knowledgethat of the over 100 TRT executives only 10 or so had any active role in the party's policies, the rest were granted the posts for services rendered.

I wish the new proposed constitution would include a clause forbidding dissolution of Parliament for frivolous reasons as Thaksin did, it would save the country a lot of money and wasted time. In my view the PM should only be able to dissolve early when he cannot muster a majority, not because he can't answerquestions in Parliament.

[Mid]

moving forward ,

What chance on the Constitution being accepted at the referendum ?

[Virgil]

justice has been done. Toxin, his family and his croies have pocketted a bit too much to be forgotten. Toxin is out and forever!

Time for a new Toxin has come... next page of the Thai history.

So what's next now? A continuation [consolidation] of the vacuum or shall we go ahead? And with what? Thailand, wake up and see what's going on under your feet before it's too late. Start from square one and open your eyes this time, you may not have a second chance to start with a brand new white page.

What an ill-informed response! The north and north east prospered under Thaksin. Already the economy in these areas is beginning to slump. And to infer that replacing a democratically elected government with a Muslim Military Dictatorship is just .... well ... dumb!

Virgil, Out!

[ThaiGoon]

< snipped >

Ah what the heck, I'm going to bed, G'night.

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[Virgil]

Today’s decision of junta appointed court is the worst possible. It makes no sense to talk about legal aspects of the decision taking into account the illegal nature of junta and all institutions it created. But the decision also lacks the elementary logic. The actions of accused two members of Thai Rak party were the result of existing at the time election regulations and the decision of democrats to boycott the elections. In other words, the action of Thai Rak were the implication of the action of Democrats. Another charge regarding dissolution of the parliament is totally absurd: khun Thaksin faced mass demonstrations. He wanted to introduce the state of emergency but it was denied by military commanders. The dissolution of the parliament was a natural step: he simply asked for a new mandate from the electorate. I would characterize the court decision as a farce. Sonthi could simply disband TRT immediately after the coup with the same degree of “legality and logic”.

The general public was willing to accept a more balanced decision: banning certain leading figures in both parties from the political activities for 5 years but keeping parties intact. It would open up the possibility for fair elections in December. Phony elections without the participation of the most popular political party will not resolve deep political crisis in Thailand.

I think we all can agree to one thing: Thailand needs certain degree of stability. The practical question now what are stable equilibria which are attainable from the current political situation. A related question: what are practical ramifications of the current decision. First of all, Sonthi does not look like a man who suppose to retire in three monthes ( I remind that he is planned to retire from his Army post in September).

I found especially amazing the introduction of the so-called Pitak emergency plan. Two major differences between this plan and the previous one: it provides participation of the Army ( and not just a police) in handling emergency situations and secondly Sonthi is in charge of the implementation of the plan. Looks like a typical power grabbing to me.

I personally would not mind if such a plan would have been implemented in deep South. But apparently Sonthi see more enemies in BKK rather than in deep South ( and , in fact, it can be very true in his own case).

It is, of course, not a secret that the major power base for Democrats is in the South (even during landslide victories of TRT in national elections democrats easily carried this region). Interestingly, the major support the junta gets nowdays is in exactly the same region.

General Sonthi is also Southerner ( and muslim as , of course, very well known).

The court ruling create a greater regional division in Thailand between South and North.

Of course, such a division always existed and has deep historical roots but the court ruling elevate it to qualitatively new level. If such division become evident in Armed forces, it may lead to far reaching consequences. Overall, propagation of such division is extremely dangerous and may lead to very serious problems (to put it mildly)

So, what are “stability options” available for Thailand? As I said, phony elections without a participation of the most popular party cannot bring a stability. Thus, I see only two.

• Popular uprising with swift return to the Constitution of 1997 and fair elections within 6 monthes.
  

• Military dictatorship of Burma type.
  

Somehow, I do not see any signs that the first option is viable. Thus, let us consider the second option. In my opinion, Burma is relatively stable. Of course, it is boycotted by many countries but manage to exist in relative isolation. The major reason for that is the abundance of mineral resources in Burma and availability of several reliable clients (like China and Russia) who are interested in exploiting these resources and supply Burma with everything it needs. Still, overall, the living standards in Burma are quite low. Unfortunately, Thailand has very limited natural resources. It is a global player which depends to significant extent on tourism, export and foreign investments. Nevertheless, Burmese option is possible but the general Thai population would need to accept much lower living standards.

Overall, this sad day manifests, in my view the last Hurrah of Thai elite and, in some sense, demonstrates the degree of its degeneration.

I stand by my (albeit very pessimistic) scenario

I'm standing there with you, Mumba.

Virgil, Out!

[younghusband]

Have I got this right? The constitution was scrapped, and a constitutional court was set up to judge the two main political parties for electoral corruption/fraud. One was found not guilty because the military coup negated the law and the other was found guilty.

Next phase is the presentation of a new constitution to be put to a refferendum.

I think Lewis Carrol could make a better job of running Thailand.

The Constitutional Court was set up after the previous constitution in he 1990s but the members were changed after the coup to include judges from the Supreme Court and The Supreme Administrative court. These judges are regarded as having the sharpest and most resolute legal minds in Thailand.

One reason TRT were banned maybe because both Thammarak and Pongsak were Party List members, without constituencies all theirpolitical activities were for the party rather than constituents.

It's common knowledgethat of the over 100 TRT executives only 10 or so had any active role in the party's policies, the rest were granted the posts for services rendered.

I wish the new proposed constitution would include a clause forbidding dissolution of Parliament for frivolous reasons as Thaksin did, it would save the country a lot of money and wasted time. In my view the PM should only be able to dissolve early when he cannot muster a majority, not because he can't answerquestions in Parliament.

Give us a break on "the sharpest and most resolute legal minds in Thailand" spiel.We all know the score on the decision and how it was formulated.

[tettyan]

an honest and straight forward decision ... Thankfully!

Honest and straightforward?! How do you explain this?

From bangkokpundit.blogspot.com (link):

7:45pm The Court is saying that the money allegedly paid by Thammarak, 50,000 baht, doesn't make sense as no reason to give the money. The images of Thammarak from the Defence Ministry were edited (not necessarily photoshopped, but could just mean misleading). Also, no evidence that anyone actually received the money.

10:10pm Thammarak and Pongsak supported the smaller parties and gave them money

11:13pm Actions must be severe in order to be a threat to national security and not just a minor breach of the law. Talking about TRT solved the economic crisis, won the 2001 and 2005 elections, had 14 million members. TRT will not be dissolved as to do so will cause economic problems or dissolving TRT will cause economic problems...

11:23pm We are going back and forth. He says one thing and then seemingly contradicts what he says. He says TRT wasn't really interested in developing the country and difficult to find the principle of the party.

And how about this blurb from The Nation (link):

"The tribunal also found that the party did not attach importance to elections and did not have political ideology to help the people to have well being as promised during election campaigns."

Well if TRT is guilty of that, I can think of many others in all parts of the world that are guilty of the same thing...

We can argue all we want about whether the effect of this ruling is good or bad for Thailand. But as for the question of whether this decision is based on sound legal principles, the answer is clearly NO.

[oldhand]

Oh yes, Oldhand, you are missing much more than you think.

A friend rang me this morning talking about the situation. He said he was confused. How could a military government that overthrew a democratically elected government have the gall to throw out that legally constituted political party while claiming to be 'protecting' democracy?

Let's examine the facts here:

1. Thai Rak Thai, led by Thaksin, was democratically elected by an overwhelming majority of Thais
   
2. Yes, Thaksin was corrupt....but no more than the other politicians in Thailand. His big mistake was being so obvious about it...but he wasn't ever one to hide his actions was he? If the Thai people had a problem with that, they should have been given the opportunity to impeach him and try him under the rule of law.
   
3. The country prospered mightily under Thaksin. Thailand repaid the IMF loan ahead of time. Salaries and incomes rose as the economy boomed. The property market boomed and Thais in all economic strata were making money as a result.
   
4. The military currently destroying this country and making it almost impossible for foreigners to stay here have no legal standing, as most Western countries have made clear.
   
5. Investors have voted with their feet....perhaps something the Thais should do by sitting down in front of parliament, or wherever the thieves who stole the country from the Thai people operate from, and raise their feet in the ultimate insult. Perhaps this action might actually get under the thick hides of the boys in green and they will leave. But I wouldn't bet on it.
   
6. Once again we have no Constitution. The rich elite top families pulling the puppet strings are destroying the very country that has given them so many riches. Greed obviously overcomes common sense every time, doesn't it?
   

In fact, there was absolutely no need for this pitiful charade the judges just went through. It was all orchestrated so that the military boys could emasculate TRT and thereby keep themselves in power. Does anyone want to take any bets on when we will actually have elections?

Sorry Marc, obviously I was not making sense.

Although I do not condone the method by which Taksin prospered, he brought a political stability to Thailand that was previously unreachable. Consequently the country prospered. This was only undermined by his own greed and self belief and by ignoring his previous mentors he left them no choice but to remove him by force.

What I meant to say is that I don't think that the removal of 111 names from a party list or the loss of the TRT name will change anything drastically once the country returns to Democracy. I do believe that the Military will hand over power either this year or early next but once again they have dramatically stated that they are not to be ignored in the political process.

[rychrde]

Yes, reaction here in SaKaeo is one of resignation. I'm starting to think that the mass of Thai people don't really understand what the democratic process can do for them. One example, most people who work have prety hard jobs, either out in the fields or stuk in some hellhole factory. There seem to be no laws protecting workers, so if a Thai has an industrial accident that's just their problem. My sister-in-law was having breathing and skin problems - no doubt due to the chemicals used in the factory - bu there is nothing she can do (she says) apart from quit. So have asked a few people, why did they support Taksin for so long when he did nothing to improve the quality of work for them? I get blank faces, like, is that part of the deal? can politicians do that?

It has been said many times, democracy in the west has developed over centuries, with people struggling for their rights to be recognised. Universal suffrage is barely 100 years old, and in some countries barely 50 years.

Perhaps a new party will put political education at the forefront of its manifesto.

I know, pipe dream

[Siripon]

And one must note that the elections in 2001 and 2005 were the most corrupt free in Thai history, according to Transparency International.

Transparency International clearly never set foot in Isan. The vast majority of TRT voters came from this area, and voted TRT simply because they were in receipt of 300bt/500bt per head to do so. I know -I live here! Most have not the slightest interest in politics -only money! Money for cards, money for lao cow and money for the underground lottery!

If vote buying had been stopped (and it could have been with prosecutions and heavy penalties) we would never have been in the position we are today. TRT would never have had an overall majority .

Very naive post.Vote buying has long been endemic in rural Thailand and certainly wasn't started by the TRT.Economic resources have long been skewed towards Bangkok and urban middle classes, and in a way that kind of "pork barrelling" is far worse than giving poor people a few hundred baht.Anyway the poster misses the point that TRT for the first time gave the rural poor a feeling that someone genuinely represented their interests.They may have been mistaken by this but the genie is out of the bottle now, and the rural majority can no longer be ignored or patronised as the poster does with his "lao cow, underground lottery,gambling" jibe.And by the way just because you live in a place doesn't make you necessarily understand it.You don't seem to.

You must be feeling a little sheepish this morning YH after your confident assertion following the King's speech that both parties would be spared dissolution.

I was puzzled you were so confident as it seemed to me the King was emphasising the judgements must be clear enough for the people to understand and the judges must be prepared to accept criticism from some quarters.

So this is a splendid and opportune moment for decent, motivated and educated Issanites and Northerners to step forward and form a party dedicated to the interests of the rural and urban poor.

Mr Surayasai, your time has come.

[gdhm]

How can one party be cleared of electoral fraud because those laws no longer apply post-coup, and at the same time another party found guilty under the same laws being retroactively applied??

The judges spent 10 hours boring us rather than just publishing the whole document and just giving us the verdicts, in an attempt to show how even-handed and legalistic they were being. The least they could have done is sorted out the logic of their decisions!

rych

Did you WATCH this rych?

They stated that the Democrats could have been dissolved in the first 1/2 ... that the charges against them were legal charges. They then acquitted them of those charges!

Today was not perhaps the end of the TRT saga ... but it was a valid and well considered decision. They went to pains to explain everything during the whole process. REAL pains! My ass is numb from watching this whole thing!

But luckily I hear a nice beer calling my name!

I am afraid I do not understand your point. A legal charge means that it is legal to make formal accusations of wronging. A charge does NOT mean a legal ruling has been made (guilty or not guilty).

On THIS single matter the Judges ruled that the charges raised are legal within the law. They then went on to say that in THEIR "non criminal findings" that they decided there was no evidence to validate the charges. This does not stop those who brought legal charges still trying to prove their case in a criminal court (or whatever).

A extreme example of what I am trying to say was the OJ Simpson trial in the US. He was found innocent of criminal charges BIT it was still legal to bring civil aw suits for damages against him (which from what I recall he was found guilty).

On the verdict IMHO I feel Thailand can now try to go forward, hopefully fast. I am neither a TRT or Democratic party supporter.

Some have suggested it is not good for the country to have dissolved the TRT Party itself. I have to ask do Judges have the power to make verdicts based on what is politically good for their Countries? Surely they are supposed to be politically neutral, and make judgements based upon the laws of the land they serve. If they find people guilty of wrong doing then they must give the appropriate punishment and they cannot base that punishment upon future politics, other issues or interests.

Another extreme Example: if a political Leader of a country was a brilliant BENEFICIAL president for the country he served, but he murdered his wife, could a judge (after a guilty verdict) decide not to send that man to prison because losing his leadership would be bad for the country and leave a void? NO of course not and he must pass sentence for the crime (the side effects are outside his jurisdiction).

I assume that the TRT Party (initially) had good policies and were considered honourable and they democratically won the people of Thailand's majority vote and formed a Government. The verdict by the ruling Judges yesterday decided that the TRT Party and 110 senior of its senior officials lost their way from their original ideal and goals and started seriously manipulating Democracy, its Electoral laws, and a General Election to "primarily" serve the personal desires of its (then) leader.

I DO worry that 110 experienced TRT persons are no longer able to stand in the next (maybe 2) election thus risking a lack of experienced candidates opposing the Democratic Party and risking a balanced next General Election. BUT on the other hand, is it good to have people possibly in power again who have been found guilty of serious wrongdoing against the Thai people and Thai democracy?

What I feel is important NOW is for a new "TRT" party to be formed by/with its "cleaner" politicians and for it to get back to its origins and give the Thai people a creditable alternative at the the next General Election.

In any democracy its important to have at least one viable alternative option to vote for. If the new party's policies are liked and its MPs experienced enough then the TRT ideology can "rise from the ashes" with a hopefully more moral, less corrupt Party and serve its people based on its Manifesto, beliefs and decent ideals (not the ones the TRT has just been found guilty of declining into, which serves neither the Party nor the Thai People's interests.

On a more minor point IMHO I feel the new party name should be close enough the original's to clearly identify to the Thai People what it original ideology is and what its good stands for, BUT different enough for it not be having to deal with the "oh yes that is the party found guilty of....." forever. Politics is hard at the best of times and what Party or politician wants to keep having to deal with a very bad historical label of a Dissolved party. It's best I feel to have a slightly different name.

I now hope we see no troubles from the verdict and that the current interim government is VERY QUICKLY in a position to allow Parties to reform where necessary, and campaign so that a Democratic General Election can be called.

I feel that with so many parties being dissolved (one being the biggest Party) that the next General Election must not be too hasty otherwise that would not give alternative Parties time to make a creditable opposition to the Democratic Party, which was not dissolved. This time democracy must be seen to be done, and the winner must be the Thai people and not individual politicians and their personal goals - this I feel is best for Thailand, its democracy, its freedom and its stability (both financial and civil).

Regards, Dave

Edited May 31, 2007 by gdhm

[brahmburgers]

"They also revoked the voting rights of the party's 111 executives for five years. The party has committed wrongdoings that have negative impacts on democracy system of the country." ....does that also preclude those 11 TRT heads from running in elections for the next five years?

Actually, I applaud the judges for doing the right thing. I honestly didn't think they would have the cojones to do so. I thought they'd give both parties a slap on the wrist. It's also a refresher for the Thai people in general - making them more politically aware and showing that there are some 'checks and balances' extant - rather than just written down somewhere - to be trampled upon by the too rich and powerful.