Small(ish) new second family car - Budget circa 600,000 Baht

[MarleyMarl]

My fiancé recently bought a car, about 3 months ago. We looked at Honda, Toyota and Nissan, thinking to buy a hatchback. I found the Hondas too small, and more expensive for same options Nissan provided. For Toyota, didn't get very good service at the showroom so just left.

 

Ended up buying Nissan Almeria I think it was about 640k, about 9k per month repayments. It was more spacious than the Note, and the interior was high-quality. It had all the features of the Hondas/Toyotas but cheaper.

 

I'm not a car expert, and just wanted something cheap, good gas mileage, and something with the latest safety features like break assist and the cameras. My fiancé is enjoying it, it's her first car.

 

 

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, MarleyMarl said:

My fiancé recently bought a car, about 3 months ago. We looked at Honda, Toyota and Nissan, thinking to buy a hatchback. I found the Hondas too small, and more expensive for same options Nissan provided. For Toyota, didn't get very good service at the showroom so just left.

 

Ended up buying Nissan Almeria I think it was about 640k, about 9k per month repayments. It was more spacious than the Note, and the interior was high-quality. It had all the features of the Hondas/Toyotas but cheaper.

 

I'm not a car expert, and just wanted something cheap, good gas mileage, and something with the latest safety features like break assist and the cameras. My fiancé is enjoying it, it's her first car.

 

 

 

Nissan vehicles have been featuring Jatco CVTs for years, but they've demonstrated less than stellar reliability. Maybe they have improved the design in recent years?

 

The dealer may claim the unit never needs servicing but Scotty Kilmer insists it's a good idea to change the oil every 30,000 miles with the correct oil.

 

Just in case,  put aside 100,000bt + labor for a reconditioned transmission.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by LarrySR

[xylophone]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:59 AM, LarrySR said:

Suzuki Swift are supposedly a fun little ride. 

The Suzuki Swift is a great little car and I've had my now for almost 10 years and have been extremely happy with it, and apart from an air conditioning heat exchanger fault which was quickly remedied, everything else has been fine.

 

It's also very nippy for a 1.2 L car, and I tried all of the ones which were in the OP, but the Swift came out on top in my opinion.

 

Great for long rides too without any driver fatigue and I took it from Patong to Hua Hin, along with a friend of mine, and we both commented on how comfortable it was.

 

The OP can buy a new one, and near top of the range, for the price he is proposing, however the others I think fall just outside of that price bracket?

 

If I had to buy another car, then I would immediately opt for a Suzuki Swift, which was last year voted, "Car of the Decade" in the NZ Motoring Magazine.

[Albaby]

5 hours ago, ujayujay said:

Over the last 14 Years I owned some of this Cars. My Resume: Nissan Almera, a lot of Space, poor Transmission. Honda Jazz OK, but Brake Problems. Toyota Vios after 2 Years feels like 10 Years old. Now I have since 5 Years a Mazda 2 Sedan, way out the best Car of all I ever had here. Its a real no Problem Car and in the meantime Mazda resells same Toyota/Honda! I know why!

And the Mazda dealer in Chiang Mai serves great coffee, cold drinks and cookies while you wait.

[LarrySR]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

The Suzuki Swift is a great little car and I've had my now for almost 10 years and have been extremely happy with it, and apart from an air conditioning heat exchanger fault which was quickly remedied, everything else has been fine.

 

It's also very nippy for a 1.2 L car, and I tried all of the ones which were in the OP, but the Swift came out on top in my opinion.

 

Great for long rides too without any driver fatigue and I took it from Patong to Hua Hin, along with a friend of mine, and we both commented on how comfortable it was.

 

The OP can buy a new one, and near top of the range, for the price he is proposing, however the others I think fall just outside of that price bracket?

 

If I had to buy another car, then I would immediately opt for a Suzuki Swift, which was last year voted, "Car of the Decade" in the NZ Motoring Magazine.

James May from Top Gear once mentioned the Swift and how much he liked it, and that got my attention. 
Reminds me of the old Mini Cooper.

Simple, fun little car.  

[Tropicalevo]

 Here is a shout for the Mitsubishi Mirage.

Start at 474,000 THB

I bought one for wifey about 10 years ago.

Sadly, wifey passed on about 5 years ago but the car is still going strong.

Cheap, easy to park and a hatchback. When you drop down the seats, loads of room for 4 dogs.

It has never let me (or wifey) down - touch wood and servicing and insurance are as cheap as chips.

[natway09]

I am about to buy my 3rd Honda in your price range (or nearly)

Great cars, servicing good  & the quietest cars by far in their group.

My mate has a new Yaris, it is OK but revs much higher & very noisy with rattles after 3 months

[KKr]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:36 AM, MarcelV said:

Why would you run the AC for 10 minutes before getting in?

maybe to get the inside temperature up or down to the desired level ?
if putting little children or a cod inside the car, a good idea, imho.

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, KKr said:

maybe to get the inside temperature up or down to the desired level ?
if putting little children or a cod inside the car, a good idea, imho.

IMO, too hot to put a fish in the car in this country!!

[MarleyMarl]

21 hours ago, LarrySR said:

 

Nissan vehicles have been featuring Jatco CVTs for years, but they've demonstrated less than stellar reliability. Maybe they have improved the design in recent years?

 

The dealer may claim the unit never needs servicing but Scotty Kilmer insists it's a good idea to change the oil every 30,000 miles with the correct oil.

 

Just in case,  put aside 100,000bt + labor for a reconditioned transmission.

 

 

Yea I heard about that, hopefully its been corrected with the new generations, the Almeria is a new generation.

 

It doesn't get driven a lot, I'd say it'll get less than 10k km per year. But something to keep in mind.

[xylophone]

@hotandsticky 

A little something to add onto the post I had regarding the Suzuki Swift I bought....... 

 

Before I settled on it, I hadn't considered Suzuki, and I test drove the following cars: –

 

Nissan March: and I quite liked this little car as there is more space in it than one would imagine it and it remained a favourite right up to the end.

 

Nissan Almera: did not like this car as it was far too roomy for my needs and had that system whereby the engine stops whenever you come to rest for a while, which I couldn't get used to.

 

Honda Brio: peppy little car and a little small inside for my liking, and wasn't keen on the very large flat glass rear windscreen, because any little shunt up the backside may well have seen it shatter. 

 

Toyota Yaris: didn't take to this, although I thought I would, because nothing about it appealed to me, and the price was higher than many of the others and it seemed like "old technology".

 

Mitsubishi Mirage: nothing about this car appealed and it was light in the handling department and I didn't go much on the finish, both inside and outside.

 

Mazda 2: I don't remember what it was about this car that didn't appeal to me, but I do remember that the driving position/height and the slope on the driver side door, put me off.

 

As I said I hadn't thought about the Suzuki until I read a report on it, and went along to the Suzuki garage for a test drive, and within 100 m of me driving it out of the showroom, I was ready to place an order, I was that convinced it was the car I wanted. Unfortunately I had to wait three months for delivery because there was a backlog at the time (not surprising in my opinion).

 

So I'm sure you will have test driven a few of them, but make sure that the Suzuki Swift is amongst them.

[hotandsticky]

Just a quick thank you to all the people who have contributed to this thread -it has been most informative and constructive.

 

I really expected it to degenerate into slagging match - or a p!ssing contest.  My bad..................it has been quite the opposite amd has given me food for thought.

 

I am still leaning towards HONDA because I have never owned one and my perception of them is very high. I am favouring the CITY hatchback over the Jazz at the moment. I will add the Suzuki Swift to the list.....although my missus had not made encouraging noises.

[DavisH]

8 hours ago, MarleyMarl said:

Yea I heard about that, hopefully its been corrected with the new generations, the Almeria is a new generation.

 

It doesn't get driven a lot, I'd say it'll get less than 10k km per year. But something to keep in mind.

Our swift has a jatco. No problems after 100K kms. Just need to service it and do the fluids regularly. Many swifts have run over 300K kms with no problems, according to a swift mechanic I know. 

 

But the swift has somewhat been left behind in terms or performance by honda and nissan and their turbo engines. But let's see how those engines hold up over the long term. 

[DavisH]

5 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Just a quick thank you to all the people who have contributed to this thread -it has been most informative and constructive.

 

I really expected it to degenerate into slagging match - or a p!ssing contest.  My bad..................it has been quite the opposite amd has given me food for thought.

 

I am still leaning towards HONDA because I have never owned one and my perception of them is very high. I am favouring the CITY hatchback over the Jazz at the moment. I will add the Suzuki Swift to the list.....although my missus had not made encouraging noises.

Test drive both and you will know. 

[hotandsticky]

10 hours ago, DavisH said:

Test drive both and you will know. 

 

That will be the next step....

[Henryford]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:06 PM, vinny41 said:

as it is a family car I would look at what safety equipment is supplied as standard as there are some new cars sold today with only 2 airbags.

Another model to consider is the Nissan Almera as news cars start from 499,000 although I prefer cars that the rear seats can fold flat such as the Yaris and the Jazz

I like the look of the new Almera but it comes with a 3 cylinder 1.0 litre turbo charged engine. Not sure i would take the risk on that.

[Chad3000]

Great thread +2

[TheScience]

Just reviving this thread.

 

Looking for 600k car or truck as well.

 

Bump

[HauptmannUK]

I can offer a bit of advice on this..

Bit of background - I have been early retired for a few years after working as a technology consultant for many years (inc. with motor industry around the world).  My family have run a motor sales and service business established for over 60 years (40 car sales pitch and MoT/servicing - specialising in VAG/BMW/MB).  I used to be a VOSA qualified MoT tester (UK roadworthiness check) and have been working at the garage since March 2020 in order to keep myself busy during Covid (we were allowed to stay open during lockdown).

 

My experience based on car service/sales here in the UK - most of the engines used are 'global' so I think the comments are mostly relevant:

 

1. Swift/Ciaz etc use Suzuki K engine.  It is very robust and runs to very high mileages if looked after.  In Europe the Dual Jet (twin-injector) and BoosterJet (with turbo) are also offered - I would avoid any turbo'd small engine from ANY manufacturer.  I have never actually seen a CVT Swift here - but I know they use the Jatco CVT J-F015E (also used by Nissan and Mitsubish).  They used to be terrible for failure of the ratio-control stepper motor causing slippage and destruction of the gearbox.  Anything made in the last couple of years should benefit from a redesign and uprating of the ratio control mechanism.  These are very reliable little cars overall but we have seen a few where the keyless entry module has failed and I also find the interior materials are very flimsy, even by the standards of the class.

 

2. Mitsubishi Mirage/Attrage etc.  The little Mitsubishi 3A engines (alleged to have been designed in partnership with Mercedes) are virtually indestructible - a little bit rough but quite peppy.  They are also extremely easy and cheap to repair.  I can change a waterpump on one of these in about 20 minutes. Electrics are also very solid and we have seen a few (used for pizza delivery etc) with 150k+ miles and all original.  We don't get many CVT in the UK but its the same box used on the Suzukis.  The manuals are very nice - a Getrag designed box very similar to the one on the MINI.  The Mitsubishi's Achille's Heel is the dreadful electrically-assisted power steering.  It doesn't feel too bad around town, but as speed increases the power assistance is reduced and you become aware of the great amount of drag from the power-assistance motor and its gears.  The drag in the system is such that on the motorway the steering tends not to self-centre and you have to manually return the wheel to centre. Its very tiring to drive on fast roads and feels a little unsafe to me.  Some customers seem to be able to live with it, but its a deal-breaker for me.  If the car is used wholly in town then you may not notice it so much.

 

3. Honda - the older Honda engines with the chain-driven cam and great. But be very aware that the new small Honda 3-cyl engines used a 'Belt In Oil' - a Kevlar reinforced cambelt which runs in the engine oil.  The overall design is very similar to the little Ford Ecoboost (AKA 'Ecobust').  Just like the Ford, Honda originally told us that these belts 'last the life of the engine'.  And just like Ford they are now recommending replacement during service.  In Europe they are specifying replacement at around 5-6 years.  This is a very involved job (just like the Ford) because the front of the engine has to be unbuttoned and the fasteners on the cam and crank pulleys are tightened to a HUGE torque.  You need a torque-multiplier.  Of course the fasteners are very high strength steel and must be replaced.  The crank nut alone costs around 100 GBP in UK.  We do not undertake cambelt changes on these Hondas (or the Fords) - we send them to our local Honda dealer who charge over 1000 GBP for the job.  On the Fords it can actually be cheaper to buy a new engine.  The rest of the car is good, with typically durable Honda electrics and trim.  Honda CVT's are of their own design and manufacture and I gather evolved from the CVTs they developed many years ago for snowmobiles...  There were some problems with older Jazz (10-15 years old) CVTs juddering but not heard of any problems recently.

 

4. Nissan.  The quality of all Nissans has tanked in recent years, no doubt due to the involvement of Renault and severe cost-cutting, so I would not recommend any Nissan.

 

5. Yaris.  Not cheap but they seem to be built for the long haul and probably best overall for reliability.  In Thailand possibly the best small car choice if you want a trouble-free drive.  The CVT's are made by Aisin (Toyota spin-off company) and seem to be the most reliable of all the CVT's.

 

With any CVT, realise that the oil works hard and gets hot (especially in Thailand). Heat degrades the oil and the friction-modifier additives in it - so change it regularly (e.g. 30k km) and use ONLY the manufacturer-supplied oil.  At any sign of problems (slippage or shuddering) then stop driving the car immediately and get the car trailered and looked at.  CVT's are very unforgiving of faults and any slippage will quickly result in huge temperatures being generated on the belt and pullies and the transmission will self-destruct in short order.

 

[couchpotato]

42 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I can offer a bit of advice on this..

Bit of background - I have been early retired for a few years after working as a technology consultant for many years (inc. with motor industry around the world).  My family have run a motor sales and service business established for over 60 years (40 car sales pitch and MoT/servicing - specialising in VAG/BMW/MB).  I used to be a VOSA qualified MoT tester (UK roadworthiness check) and have been working at the garage since March 2020 in order to keep myself busy during Covid (we were allowed to stay open during lockdown).

 

My experience based on car service/sales here in the UK - most of the engines used are 'global' so I think the comments are mostly relevant:

 

1. Swift/Ciaz etc use Suzuki K engine.  It is very robust and runs to very high mileages if looked after.  In Europe the Dual Jet (twin-injector) and BoosterJet (with turbo) are also offered - I would avoid any turbo'd small engine from ANY manufacturer.  I have never actually seen a CVT Swift here - but I know they use the Jatco CVT J-F015E (also used by Nissan and Mitsubish).  They used to be terrible for failure of the ratio-control stepper motor causing slippage and destruction of the gearbox.  Anything made in the last couple of years should benefit from a redesign and uprating of the ratio control mechanism.  These are very reliable little cars overall but we have seen a few where the keyless entry module has failed and I also find the interior materials are very flimsy, even by the standards of the class.

 

2. Mitsubishi Mirage/Attrage etc.  The little Mitsubishi 3A engines (alleged to have been designed in partnership with Mercedes) are virtually indestructible - a little bit rough but quite peppy.  They are also extremely easy and cheap to repair.  I can change a waterpump on one of these in about 20 minutes. Electrics are also very solid and we have seen a few (used for pizza delivery etc) with 150k+ miles and all original.  We don't get many CVT in the UK but its the same box used on the Suzukis.  The manuals are very nice - a Getrag designed box very similar to the one on the MINI.  The Mitsubishi's Achille's Heel is the dreadful electrically-assisted power steering.  It doesn't feel too bad around town, but as speed increases the power assistance is reduced and you become aware of the great amount of drag from the power-assistance motor and its gears.  The drag in the system is such that on the motorway the steering tends not to self-centre and you have to manually return the wheel to centre. Its very tiring to drive on fast roads and feels a little unsafe to me.  Some customers seem to be able to live with it, but its a deal-breaker for me.  If the car is used wholly in town then you may not notice it so much.

 

3. Honda - the older Honda engines with the chain-driven cam and great. But be very aware that the new small Honda 3-cyl engines used a 'Belt In Oil' - a Kevlar reinforced cambelt which runs in the engine oil.  The overall design is very similar to the little Ford Ecoboost (AKA 'Ecobust').  Just like the Ford, Honda originally told us that these belts 'last the life of the engine'.  And just like Ford they are now recommending replacement during service.  In Europe they are specifying replacement at around 5-6 years.  This is a very involved job (just like the Ford) because the front of the engine has to be unbuttoned and the fasteners on the cam and crank pulleys are tightened to a HUGE torque.  You need a torque-multiplier.  Of course the fasteners are very high strength steel and must be replaced.  The crank nut alone costs around 100 GBP in UK.  We do not undertake cambelt changes on these Hondas (or the Fords) - we send them to our local Honda dealer who charge over 1000 GBP for the job.  On the Fords it can actually be cheaper to buy a new engine.  The rest of the car is good, with typically durable Honda electrics and trim.  Honda CVT's are of their own design and manufacture and I gather evolved from the CVTs they developed many years ago for snowmobiles...  There were some problems with older Jazz (10-15 years old) CVTs juddering but not heard of any problems recently.

 

4. Nissan.  The quality of all Nissans has tanked in recent years, no doubt due to the involvement of Renault and severe cost-cutting, so I would not recommend any Nissan.

 

5. Yaris.  Not cheap but they seem to be built for the long haul and probably best overall for reliability.  In Thailand possibly the best small car choice if you want a trouble-free drive.  The CVT's are made by Aisin (Toyota spin-off company) and seem to be the most reliable of all the CVT's.

 

With any CVT, realise that the oil works hard and gets hot (especially in Thailand). Heat degrades the oil and the friction-modifier additives in it - so change it regularly (e.g. 30k km) and use ONLY the manufacturer-supplied oil.  At any sign of problems (slippage or shuddering) then stop driving the car immediately and get the car trailered and looked at.  CVT's are very unforgiving of faults and any slippage will quickly result in huge temperatures being generated on the belt and pullies and the transmission will self-destruct in short order.

 

Probably one of the most comprehensive answers to any question on these threads. Learn't a lot..Thanks

[seedy]

8 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

I can offer a bit of advice on this..

Bit of background - I have been early retired for a few years after working as a technology consultant for many years (inc. with motor industry around the world).  My family have run a motor sales and service business established for over 60 years (40 car sales pitch and MoT/servicing - specialising in VAG/BMW/MB).  I used to be a VOSA qualified MoT tester (UK roadworthiness check) and have been working at the garage since March 2020 in order to keep myself busy during Covid (we were allowed to stay open during lockdown).

 

My experience based on car service/sales here in the UK - most of the engines used are 'global' so I think the comments are mostly relevant:

 

1. Swift/Ciaz etc use Suzuki K engine.  It is very robust and runs to very high mileages if looked after.  In Europe the Dual Jet (twin-injector) and BoosterJet (with turbo) are also offered - I would avoid any turbo'd small engine from ANY manufacturer.  I have never actually seen a CVT Swift here - but I know they use the Jatco CVT J-F015E (also used by Nissan and Mitsubish).  They used to be terrible for failure of the ratio-control stepper motor causing slippage and destruction of the gearbox.  Anything made in the last couple of years should benefit from a redesign and uprating of the ratio control mechanism.  These are very reliable little cars overall but we have seen a few where the keyless entry module has failed and I also find the interior materials are very flimsy, even by the standards of the class.

 

2. Mitsubishi Mirage/Attrage etc.  The little Mitsubishi 3A engines (alleged to have been designed in partnership with Mercedes) are virtually indestructible - a little bit rough but quite peppy.  They are also extremely easy and cheap to repair.  I can change a waterpump on one of these in about 20 minutes. Electrics are also very solid and we have seen a few (used for pizza delivery etc) with 150k+ miles and all original.  We don't get many CVT in the UK but its the same box used on the Suzukis.  The manuals are very nice - a Getrag designed box very similar to the one on the MINI.  The Mitsubishi's Achille's Heel is the dreadful electrically-assisted power steering.  It doesn't feel too bad around town, but as speed increases the power assistance is reduced and you become aware of the great amount of drag from the power-assistance motor and its gears.  The drag in the system is such that on the motorway the steering tends not to self-centre and you have to manually return the wheel to centre. Its very tiring to drive on fast roads and feels a little unsafe to me.  Some customers seem to be able to live with it, but its a deal-breaker for me.  If the car is used wholly in town then you may not notice it so much.

 

3. Honda - the older Honda engines with the chain-driven cam and great. But be very aware that the new small Honda 3-cyl engines used a 'Belt In Oil' - a Kevlar reinforced cambelt which runs in the engine oil.  The overall design is very similar to the little Ford Ecoboost (AKA 'Ecobust').  Just like the Ford, Honda originally told us that these belts 'last the life of the engine'.  And just like Ford they are now recommending replacement during service.  In Europe they are specifying replacement at around 5-6 years.  This is a very involved job (just like the Ford) because the front of the engine has to be unbuttoned and the fasteners on the cam and crank pulleys are tightened to a HUGE torque.  You need a torque-multiplier.  Of course the fasteners are very high strength steel and must be replaced.  The crank nut alone costs around 100 GBP in UK.  We do not undertake cambelt changes on these Hondas (or the Fords) - we send them to our local Honda dealer who charge over 1000 GBP for the job.  On the Fords it can actually be cheaper to buy a new engine.  The rest of the car is good, with typically durable Honda electrics and trim.  Honda CVT's are of their own design and manufacture and I gather evolved from the CVTs they developed many years ago for snowmobiles...  There were some problems with older Jazz (10-15 years old) CVTs juddering but not heard of any problems recently.

 

4. Nissan.  The quality of all Nissans has tanked in recent years, no doubt due to the involvement of Renault and severe cost-cutting, so I would not recommend any Nissan.

 

5. Yaris.  Not cheap but they seem to be built for the long haul and probably best overall for reliability.  In Thailand possibly the best small car choice if you want a trouble-free drive.  The CVT's are made by Aisin (Toyota spin-off company) and seem to be the most reliable of all the CVT's.

 

With any CVT, realise that the oil works hard and gets hot (especially in Thailand). Heat degrades the oil and the friction-modifier additives in it - so change it regularly (e.g. 30k km) and use ONLY the manufacturer-supplied oil.  At any sign of problems (slippage or shuddering) then stop driving the car immediately and get the car trailered and looked at.  CVT's are very unforgiving of faults and any slippage will quickly result in huge temperatures being generated on the belt and pullies and the transmission will self-destruct in short order.

 

Great post.

I also will never buy a high strung mini motor with a turbo. They will not last.

With CVT - if me, I would only buy brand new, and double the oil change recommendations. Better yet - get the manual transmission.

Newer cars seem to be throw-away these days. I doubt you will see hi mileage cars built in the last 10 years as you get to a point that the repair is worth more than the car.

More fodder for the case about buying second hand - with the caveat that you need to know about cars.

Our Teana was bought like this - I wanted V6 and a torque converter auto. Newer models are all 4 banger and CVT.

Some real buys here in LOS, and you get a car which will last. My 2 cents

[HauptmannUK]

16 hours ago, seedy said:

Great post.

I also will never buy a high strung mini motor with a turbo. They will not last.

With CVT - if me, I would only buy brand new, and double the oil change recommendations. Better yet - get the manual transmission.

Newer cars seem to be throw-away these days. I doubt you will see hi mileage cars built in the last 10 years as you get to a point that the repair is worth more than the car.

More fodder for the case about buying second hand - with the caveat that you need to know about cars.

Our Teana was bought like this - I wanted V6 and a torque converter auto. Newer models are all 4 banger and CVT.

Some real buys here in LOS, and you get a car which will last. My 2 cents

The old Teana with the 2.5L Nissan VQ engine and 4-speed auto is one of the last of the 'real' Nissans - great cars. 

 

The new generation of 1.0 litre 3-cyl turbo engines introduced by Ford, Honda, Nissan etc give great performance, and are efficient and impressive to drive. The problem is that they all seem to run on a knife-edge. Coolant capacity is very small (to ensure rapid warm up and low emissions etc) and therefore if there is any loss of coolant the engine is toast within minutes.  Certainly in the UK most used car dealers are very wary of taking on these cars and they do not so far have a good reputation.  Our policy is not to buy any Ford Ecoboost 1.0 with more that 60k miles because, although they are easy to sell, there is too much liability (UK Consumer Rights Act etc). The jury is still out on the Honda 1.0, but at the moment its a case of 'guilty until proven innocent'.

 

Incidentally, no one should overlook Suzuki.  They are very robust engines and the Swift and Ciaz are big sellers in India (locally built as a Maruti-Suzuki) - if they can cope with Indian road conditions and (lack of) maintenance then they can cope with anything in Thailand.  I have driven the Ciaz a few times and find them very comfortable and good on the motorway for a small car. Only problem in Thailand is that it is sold with the 1.2 engine (Eco Car regs) rather than the more appropriate 1.5 used in other markets.

Edited December 7, 2021 by HauptmannUK

[seedy]

Yes - I believe the dealers are very shy about those mini-sized turbo motors.

They are working so hard to provide the same performance as a larger displacement naturally aspirated engine.

Was never very concerned with fuel economy either - when I worked the company paid, now I am retired I do not drive that much anyway. You goona worry for a couple hundred baht ? 555

The old saying still holds - there is no replacement for displacement, if you want a long lasting engine.