Thai Higher-ups Want To Cull Out Undesirables -

[jdinasia]

I spend about US 1,000 (34k baht) a month not counting insurance or rent or school stuff or a visa run to the US or Australia etc annually ... no way I could get by on less though I am sure some people do.

I would like to see a return of the investment visa 3m+ ... <maybe 5m?>

but I fully understand having some requirements

Better what we have coming here than what Thais have going to the country I carry a passport for!

[wolfmanjack]

Can we all agree that having retirees here is good for the economy ??

Mexico tries to get retirees to come there because retirement villages support entire villages of local people. Wouldn't the jobs provided in this situation be beneficial to thailand ????? Does anyone know what the sort of living is in Mexico ? Just so we are comparing apples to apples here instead of apples to oranges in the case of comparing thailand to the USA. In mexico (unless they have changed ) the retirement is based on $1,000 per month and it is half if you purchase a home. Wouldn't something like this be better for thailand ?? Make the amount half if you own a condo or have a 30 year lease since thailand does not want you to own land ??? The same with married people. make the amount less if you do not have to rent?

[sabaijai]

It seems that the 'powers that be' see all ferangs as somewhat undesirable.

The immigration regs apply to all nationalities, and in fact the changes in enforcement/policies probably affect more Asians than farang.

[vermin on arrival]

It seems that the 'powers that be' see all ferangs as somewhat undesirable.

The immigration regs apply to all nationalities, and in fact the changes in enforcement/policies probably affect more Asians than farang.

So myabe it would be more appropriate to say that they view most foreigners as somewhat undesirable.

[samran]

Being treaded like vermin on arival is par for the course most places I've been. Even Australia, where I hold a passport and theoretically authorities have no right to stop me entering - I'm treaded like crap most times I enter. To be fair, I hate it being pulled aside before boarding my place (Aus immigration are present at Suvanapoom, usually at the gate see this link), I hate it when on arrival in Australia being questioned as to my reasons for being in Thailand when they are zapping my passport. I hate it that I never make it past the rugby scrum of immigration officials that stand 10 meters just behind the immigration counter (after your passport has been zapped) where they take your passport away and check it again, and ask the same questions again. I hate it when at the baggage pick up a plain clothed officer will wonder up and ask to see my travel documents.....&lt;deleted&gt;? (of course, if I arrive with my blond wife and blond baby...then all these things never happen...of course).

Good point Samran. I get the same when I'm entering the US, especially bad the last two times I've been; I wasn't sure if it was related to the John Mark Carr thing or not. At first I thought it was for single men who live in Thailand, but then it also happened to a friend of mine who works in Taiwan and Korea, and then I heard it happen to a Taiwanese family I know who have US citizenship, but live and work in Taiwan(wife, husband and child). The US were never very keen on expats and seems to like them even less now.

At least I'm treated better on my entances elsewhere even if the officials never smile. It is ironic that it happens in the two places I really call home.

I still do agree with the people on the board who think this is deliberately an attempt to remove the majority of long stay foreigners in Thailand.

hehe.

and it is easy for me to think the opposite when I live in a building full of them (not the monied expat type either) and I work in a building full of them.

[JR Texas]

How long is it before someone comes up with the classic line: "Thailand needs farangs to survive economically"?

Oh okay then , if you really insist :Thailand needs farangs to survive economically.

My opinion hasn't changed since last august (and the first signs of some real changes).

-There is a plan

-This plan is global = not only about visas.

-The aim is to reduce the number of foreigners living permanently in Thailand, and to reduce the foreign influences on thai economy and thai society.

-This plan is absolutly not linked to one political party : it has started under Thaksin, it continues full speed with the junta. We can assume that the aim of this plan is shared by the ruling elite. Therefore, it won't change any time soon (I say that to those who believe to the magic stick motto : "after elections, everything will return to normal").

-I don't buy at all the idea that because TIT syndrome, rules are changing and can have different interpretations, etc.

Actually this is part of the plan : to proceed step by step, silently, to create and to use confusion and uncertainty. It's the frog in hot water principle. The process will be slow, with steps back and forth, but the final target is clear.

You can review all the events, you'll see clearly the pattern.

-land ownerships via company scheme, first alerts in july and august 2006

-visa shake up (august and october 2006)

-currency manipulation and capital controls (december 2006)

-Foreign Business Act 2 (still pending at NLA)

-Retail Act (still pending at NLA)

For every subject, thai authorities use deception with their explainations : Visa ? "To protect against crime, national security, terrorists, pedophils, mafia" you name it etc.

FBA ? "It's because of the Shin scandal".

Retail Act ? "To protect our local shops and the way of living of many people".

Currency ? "To fight against speculation".

We could name this pattern : the chinese model. And it's all about control.

tourists, exports, economic growth = yes

foreign influences inside the country (population, economic, political, culture) and freedom (speech, politics, markets) = no

JR Texas to CCClub75: Brilliant post.......extremely insightful. Totally on target!

JR Texas to WolfmanJack and other people that want to show disrespect to the Great Nation of Texas: Shit fire (Texas for "now I am pissed"). Giddyup (that is my horse), time to saddle up (Texas lingo for "get my saddle and put it on the horse"). I'm gonna (Texas for "I am about to") put on my shit kickers (Texas lingo for "boots") and go pay some high falootin city folk (Texas for "people that do not use an outhouse") a visit and teach them a little Texas respect (Texas lingo meaning "beat the hel_l out of them").

Just kidding, of course.....not!.....yes, just kidding.....not!.....yes, just kidding :D

The Bad Bush is a northerner disguised as a southerner. Reminds me of a turd in a bowl that somebody forgot to flush. But LBJ......well........I must admit that was a big Texas mistake.

Texas isn't the only state that the people wear shit kickers you know or call boots that. Or use them on city slickers to do a little stompin.

Our steers don't have such long horns but they do have horns.

Check out all of the other states that run along the rocky mountains and you will find the rest of us. You were just born in the wrong place and must have been educated somewhere other than texas cause your advice is too level headed to come from a Texan. Sure there isn't a northerner in the wood pile somewhere ??

JR Texas to Wolfmanjack: I am sorry, but I do not have a "wood pile." Nothing there.........I am sure. Maybe a little bit of sawdust.

Yes, educated all over.........USA and the world. Actually, I do not really see myself as "a Texan" or "an American." I just see myself as a human being.......just one of many (far, far too many).

I like your posts Wolfmanjack. How did you turn out sane? Must have made the mistake of keeping your eyes and mind open.

Good luck!

[Gary A]

Other than the use of the infrastructure, most of which I pay for, I take nothing from Thailand. I DO put money into the economy. Perhaps they worry that if you do not have a large surplus that somehow you are depriving Thais from making money? I AM retired and certainly do not make any money here. In any case, when I feel like I am no longer wanted, it won't take me long to be on a plane.

[Artfullmover]

CULL THE UNDESIRABLES... Just who are they exactly, (from a Thai prospecive anyway?)

One way of looking at it that could well be most of us.

Given Thai's are known for there simplistic view in life and there world and finaces have become stable they dont need there daughters to run around with the farang anymore. ( This would be the case for the policy makers and there friends at least).

For every farang that comes into thailand and sets up camp there there is usually at least one girl that leaves the main stream of thailand culture. If you face up to facts almost all the male falang in thailand dont have western brides and are taking/changing the views of the thai women of the thai culture.

If some other culture ( lets just say the "Martians" ) came to our worlds and thew a lot af "benifits" around we would most likely find them to be acceptable and welcome. But if after a while it payed a heavey toll on our culture and we started losing our women to there ways we would probally want to F@#! them off!!!!. but being fair and rational we would probally start the with the process of restricting there numbers.

Just a passing thought but it could be as simple as all that. Sometimes the situation becomes something money just cant buy

Edited June 8, 2007 by Artfullmover

[bendix]

*shakes head in disbelief*

Are you seriously suggesting that this supposed tightening of visa laws is driven by jealousy that farangs are stealing Thailand's girls? Please tell me that's NOT your theory.

Edited June 8, 2007 by bendix

[jdinasia]

LOL ... a bit daft that!

Makes you wonder how many of Thailand's policy maker's daughters Arty knows?

[vermin on arrival]

Samran:and it is easy for me to think the opposite when I live in a building full of them (not the monied expat type either) and I work in a building full of them.

No problem man. So we disagree. This forum would be a very boring place if people agreed all the time. Could you imagine what the replies would be like? Agreed. Spot On. Right on the money. There would be very little discussion if there were no disagreement.

[Edonista]

Since I pay no rent, I can EASILY live quite well here for 30,000 baht per month. Why I have to verify 65,000 per month is beyond my comprehension. I have absolutely no control as to why the Thai government demands this. That said, Thailand is my home, BUT my home was in the US before and could be again. If and when I am convinced that I'm not wanted here, I will pack my bags. I have NEVER spent more here than I can afford to walk away from.

There are other ways Gary .... you don't have to spend your 65K ... just prove you have it .... and after all that is a retirement visa .... medical costs can skyrocket as you get older

Most people I know have medical insurance....

That becomes impossible (or skyhigh expensive)to renew after first serious health treatment...

[Edonista]

*shakes head in disbelief*

Are you seriously suggesting that this supposed tightening of visa laws is driven by jealousy that farangs are stealing Thailand's girls? Please tell me that's NOT your theory.

Ridiculous. Thais are not jealous of their girls (actually the boyfriend or brother of sex workers is often their pimp). They simply cannot stand farangs to walk on their holy soil.

They can hardly tolerate tourists if they stay no more than two weeks and spend at least 5,000 baht /day. And if they send money from abroad without bothering to show up at the border, that's even better (yet Dr.Tarisa is annoyed by the fact such foreign remittances push up the baht, hurting exports)

[Edonista]

Since I pay no rent, I can EASILY live quite well here for 30,000 baht per month. Why I have to verify 65,000 per month is beyond my comprehension. I have absolutely no control as to why the Thai government demands this. That said, Thailand is my home, BUT my home was in the US before and could be again. If and when I am convinced that I'm not wanted here, I will pack my bags. I have NEVER spent more here than I can afford to walk away from.

Gary,

fair point. And if I look at my budget, after rent, we are probably 40K for wifey and the little one for day to day things. Health insurance (which isn't included) is a stinker though and pushes things up. Neither is the savings we put away for the eventual schooling of the little one, or my and wifeys retirement fund. Or our mortgage repayments in OZ.

The fact remains however that people have to have the capacity to support themselves - which often goes beyond day to day expenditure - should the need arise. If that capacity isn't there, then in some way, shape or form, it is the Thai goverment which ulimately bears the burden.

I agree that people have to have the capacity to support themselves.

As far as the thai gov bearing the burden ????? Do they pay for the cremation of people that can't afford it or something ?? I have never heard of a welfare system here . Please inform me ?

I agree. Samran please show us how can we be of some burden to Thai government.I am eager to be of some burden, but I cannot see how.

[BAF]

As for long stayers, the question is always going to be a tough one especially in the case of families. There are always going to be people who don't make the cut. The Thai authorities have set a basic bar - 40K per month/per family . No doubt that bar is higher than what they typical Thai family may earn, especially in rural areas, but at the same time, frankly the risk to the Thai government is higher as well in terms of prenting sham marriages for the purpose of staying, the RTG needs to ensure that the person is in a position to support themselves (otherwise they would become a burden to soceity in some way).

Like the others, I'm impatiently waiting to see a list of those ways in which foreigners (particularly the Westerners and the other rich Asians since for neighbouring countries' migrant workers different sets of rules and circumstances apply) become a burden to a 3rd world country which provides its own citizen with very few and very poor welfare state type of benefits and ZERO, NONE, ZILCH, NOWT, NOTHING, ZIP to visiting foreigners...

What are visa runners of any kind and any other not-working/investing types of "long stayers" entitled to or may get entitled to in case of need in Thailand?

Free health care?

Free housing?

Free schooling for their foreign children?

Unemployment benefits?

Social security checks if permanently disabled?

Social security checks if too old/unable to work?

We are all ears.

[retiredusn]

Strange. I have no problem obtaining a visa as i am maried to a Thai, and friends of mine have either a retirement visa or a business visa.

When going on holiday a visa is very easy too.

What is the problem?

The wife and I have been living in Thailand on a retirement visa for 4 years and have had no problems . I think the ones leaving are the ones sitting on a bar stool talking about whats wrong and then agreeing with each other rather than finding out what is really legal or not. Have a Great Thai day

[brahmburgers]

Thailand is a country heavily dependant on tourism. It needs a big inflow of foreign money just to maintain the status quo...

Wrong.

Tourism is only 6% of GDP. Exports of rice and other commodities make up the bulk.

(Say, are you new here in Thailand, or yet another wishful pretender posting from his home country?)

Can we all agree that having retirees here is good for the economy ??

Mexico tries to get retirees to come there because retirement villages support entire villages of local people. Wouldn't the jobs provided in this situation be beneficial to thailand ????? Does anyone know what the sort of living is in Mexico ? Just so we are comparing apples to apples here instead of apples to oranges in the case of comparing thailand to the USA. In mexico (unless they have changed ) the retirement is based on $1,000 per month and it is half if you purchase a home. Wouldn't something like this be better for thailand ?? Make the amount half if you own a condo or have a 30 year lease since thailand does not want you to own land ??? The same with married people. make the amount less if you do not have to rent?

My earlier proposal of a one year no-hassle visa for a flat rate (I lo-balled it at Bt.30,000, but it could be any reasonable amount). One respondent said something like "for less than $1,000/year anyone can live in Thailand - what a deal!" Fact is that nearly all farang spend copious amounts to live here - whether married or not. Particularly for retired folk - it's all outside money, Rice exports bring in a tidy sum to Thailand, but I wouldn't doubt that farang money brings in much more overall revenue.

Just on the one topic of dowries: The going rate for a dowry in Issan is 1 mllion baht upwards, and how many girls' families, just from Issan province alone, get a fat dowry paid by farang every year? You won't find those dollar amounts in gov't statistics. Plus, there are the inevitable on-going amounts paid to the wife and her family and often there's properties bought in the wife's name that are left to her if the couple splits up (which happens more often than not). This all may sound off-topic, but the point is there's tens of billions of baht annually of outside money that gets infused in to the Thai economy that is not acknowledged by the Bangkok bean counters - that comes from farang - tourists and unofficial residents.

By simpifying the visa process, Thai imm authorities would facilitating (and increase) such copious flows of money. By all indications, money is worshiped in Thailand, so it's a win-win situation.

[JR Texas]

Thailand is a country heavily dependant on tourism. It needs a big inflow of foreign money just to maintain the status quo...

Wrong.

Tourism is only 6% of GDP. Exports of rice and other commodities make up the bulk.

(Say, are you new here in Thailand, or yet another wishful pretender posting from his home country?)

Can we all agree that having retirees here is good for the economy ??

Mexico tries to get retirees to come there because retirement villages support entire villages of local people. Wouldn't the jobs provided in this situation be beneficial to thailand ????? Does anyone know what the sort of living is in Mexico ? Just so we are comparing apples to apples here instead of apples to oranges in the case of comparing thailand to the USA. In mexico (unless they have changed ) the retirement is based on $1,000 per month and it is half if you purchase a home. Wouldn't something like this be better for thailand ?? Make the amount half if you own a condo or have a 30 year lease since thailand does not want you to own land ??? The same with married people. make the amount less if you do not have to rent?

My earlier proposal of a one year no-hassle visa for a flat rate (I lo-balled it at Bt.30,000, but it could be any reasonable amount). One respondent said something like "for less than $1,000/year anyone can live in Thailand - what a deal!" Fact is that nearly all farang spend copious amounts to live here - whether married or not. Particularly for retired folk - it's all outside money, Rice exports bring in a tidy sum to Thailand, but I wouldn't doubt that farang money brings in much more overall revenue.

Just on the one topic of dowries: The going rate for a dowry in Issan is 1 mllion baht upwards, and how many girls' families, just from Issan province alone, get a fat dowry paid by farang every year? You won't find those dollar amounts in gov't statistics. Plus, there are the inevitable on-going amounts paid to the wife and her family and often there's properties bought in the wife's name that are left to her if the couple splits up (which happens more often than not). This all may sound off-topic, but the point is there's tens of billions of baht annually of outside money that gets infused in to the Thai economy that is not acknowledged by the Bangkok bean counters - that comes from farang - tourists and unofficial residents.

By simpifying the visa process, Thai imm authorities would facilitating (and increase) such copious flows of money. By all indications, money is worshiped in Thailand, so it's a win-win situation.

JR Texas: Several years ago Cambodia had a system where you could just pay a flat amount for different extensions: 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, and even 1 year. It was not expensive to get them and it was easy.

Thailand could do something similar and it would put a stop to all of this BS.......a pay as you go system (easy to understand and implement).

People keep stating that tourism ONLY accounts for 6% of GDP as if that is not significant. Personally, I do not trust any of the official statistics in Thailand.

The impact of tourism is far reaching and spreads out to many other sectors.........the total impact is no doubt larger than 6% of GDP. A major and perhaps more relevant issue is how many Thais are employed in the tourism industry......my guess is that it is a very significant number.

I suppose that, given the 6% figure is "not significant," the jobs that the tourism industry creates are also "not significant." I do not agree with this, but apparently some people do......

About the $1000 dollar per month requirement for a pension in Mexico. In Panama, a much better place to be than Mexico, the pension per month requirement is about 500$. The Panamanian Govt. knows that once a foreigner decides to retire in Panama he will end up spending a lot of money for many years.....so they do not raise the bar too much (very smart move........the opposite of what Thailand is doing).

[ludosiam]

But I work for myself! Well that is fine too, start a business, provide some employment to Thai's...and off you go. It is possible, and there are thousands of farangs here successfully doing the same thing.

Wrong statement! I have a business set up with my wife, staying here on a "B" visa unbroken for 6 years with work permit and a proper income tax record and had to learn that if the company does not make at least 1.000.000 profit no more extension will be granted. Posting that amount of profit will mean an additional 300.000 in taxes, I wonder how many small scale companies who do not employ foreigners in Thailand are paying this amount of tax.

[ThaiGoon]

Interesting that people who keep calling Thailand 3rd world and ridiculing the country are always the ones who want Thailand to change visa regulations and do anything so that people like them could stay or keep coming back to Thailand.

If they want to visit or stay in Thailand this bad, I guess their countries (like Italy in BAF's case) must be a complete sh*thole.

Edited June 9, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[wolfmanjack]

How long is it before someone comes up with the classic line: "Thailand needs farangs to survive economically"?

Oh okay then , if you really insist :Thailand needs farangs to survive economically.

My opinion hasn't changed since last august (and the first signs of some real changes).

-There is a plan

-This plan is global = not only about visas.

-The aim is to reduce the number of foreigners living permanently in Thailand, and to reduce the foreign influences on thai economy and thai society.

-This plan is absolutly not linked to one political party : it has started under Thaksin, it continues full speed with the junta. We can assume that the aim of this plan is shared by the ruling elite. Therefore, it won't change any time soon (I say that to those who believe to the magic stick motto : "after elections, everything will return to normal").

-I don't buy at all the idea that because TIT syndrome, rules are changing and can have different interpretations, etc.

Actually this is part of the plan : to proceed step by step, silently, to create and to use confusion and uncertainty. It's the frog in hot water principle. The process will be slow, with steps back and forth, but the final target is clear.

You can review all the events, you'll see clearly the pattern.

-land ownerships via company scheme, first alerts in july and august 2006

-visa shake up (august and october 2006)

-currency manipulation and capital controls (december 2006)

-Foreign Business Act 2 (still pending at NLA)

-Retail Act (still pending at NLA)

For every subject, thai authorities use deception with their explainations : Visa ? "To protect against crime, national security, terrorists, pedophils, mafia" you name it etc.

FBA ? "It's because of the Shin scandal".

Retail Act ? "To protect our local shops and the way of living of many people".

Currency ? "To fight against speculation".

We could name this pattern : the chinese model. And it's all about control.

tourists, exports, economic growth = yes

foreign influences inside the country (population, economic, political, culture) and freedom (speech, politics, markets) = no

JR Texas to CCClub75: Brilliant post.......extremely insightful. Totally on target!

JR Texas to WolfmanJack and other people that want to show disrespect to the Great Nation of Texas: Shit fire (Texas for "now I am pissed"). Giddyup (that is my horse), time to saddle up (Texas lingo for "get my saddle and put it on the horse"). I'm gonna (Texas for "I am about to") put on my shit kickers (Texas lingo for "boots") and go pay some high falootin city folk (Texas for "people that do not use an outhouse") a visit and teach them a little Texas respect (Texas lingo meaning "beat the hel_l out of them").

Just kidding, of course.....not!.....yes, just kidding.....not!.....yes, just kidding :D

The Bad Bush is a northerner disguised as a southerner. Reminds me of a turd in a bowl that somebody forgot to flush. But LBJ......well........I must admit that was a big Texas mistake.

Texas isn't the only state that the people wear shit kickers you know or call boots that. Or use them on city slickers to do a little stompin.

Our steers don't have such long horns but they do have horns.

Check out all of the other states that run along the rocky mountains and you will find the rest of us. You were just born in the wrong place and must have been educated somewhere other than texas cause your advice is too level headed to come from a Texan. Sure there isn't a northerner in the wood pile somewhere ??

JR Texas to Wolfmanjack: I am sorry, but I do not have a "wood pile." Nothing there.........I am sure. Maybe a little bit of sawdust.

Yes, educated all over.........USA and the world. Actually, I do not really see myself as "a Texan" or "an American." I just see myself as a human being.......just one of many (far, far too many).

I like your posts Wolfmanjack. How did you turn out sane? Must have made the mistake of keeping your eyes and mind open.

Good luck!

Thanks. I like your posts too. I agree with almost all of them. It seems like we grew up with a similar upbringing. When I was a kid my dad told me if i shut up once in a while i might learn something. I took that to heart. I do try to practice the look and listen twice as much as you speak.

[wolfmanjack]

But I work for myself! Well that is fine too, start a business, provide some employment to Thai's...and off you go. It is possible, and there are thousands of farangs here successfully doing the same thing.

Wrong statement! I have a business set up with my wife, staying here on a "B" visa unbroken for 6 years with work permit and a proper income tax record and had to learn that if the company does not make at least 1.000.000 profit no more extension will be granted. Posting that amount of profit will mean an additional 300.000 in taxes, I wonder how many small scale companies who do not employ foreigners in Thailand are paying this amount of tax.

Please inform us of this new rule about making at least a million baht in profit ?

It could affect my visa since I show very little profit after paying my salary and reinvesting in my factory. (upgrading machinery etc. ) I only paid 87,000 in taxes last year so if they make it that i have to pay 300,000 i will have to switch to the married visa.

[ludosiam]

Interesting that people who keep calling Thailand 3rd world and ridiculing the country are always the ones who want Thailand to change visa regulations and do anything so that people like them could stay or keep coming back to Thailand.

If they want to visit or stay in Thailand this bad, I guess their countries (like Italy in BAF's case) must be a complete sh*thole.

Dear Thaigoon, I think you have missed the point of BAF's post: Thailand has actually no social welfare system that would support any long staying foreigner, so he doesn't see where these people can be a burden to society in general. Don't get me wrong, I do not ask for a social welfare system, I have exited a "good" one for the sole reason that I believe these systems are a the real burden for society.

[lastparadisephuket]

Has anyone else noted the paradox that the main architect for the situation that we all find ourselves in Toxin, has been able to gain entry to the UK, be able to buy a property in his name, educate his daughter in a top academic institution (on scholarship), and is currently buying a piece of UK heritage ( a hundred year old football club). When you talk about undesirables I think you would strugle to find a bigger one.

As for other threads here, the rules are what they are, I feel for those who came along time ago and have found the goal posts changed. My father was one who retired here on a modest pension, below the threshold of acceptability. But he spent every penny in the local economy, contibuted to local life and finally was laid to rest here. He would, had he lived been forced out of the country he had called home for many years for the sake of a few thousand baht a month shortfall on income.

The threads that continue to appear here constantly worry me. So many of you complain bitterly about every rule change and idiosyncracy of Thai life. Yet most have found loopholes and shortcuts to bypass the ligitmate way of staying here. If immigrants in your country of origin were doing the same I expect you would be ranting on a similar discussion forum back home. The facts are simple. The visa rule are there and we must abide by them, however illogical they may be. It really is not that hard to find a ligitimate way of staying here.

[ludosiam]

Please inform us of this new rule about making at least a million baht in profit ?

It could affect my visa since I show very little profit after paying my salary and reinvesting in my factory. (upgrading machinery etc. ) I only paid 87,000 in taxes last year so if they make it that i have to pay 300,000 i will have to switch to the married visa.

The visa regulations do actually say 1.000.000 Baht in equity but the officer in charge interpreted it as 1.000.000 in profit, threatened me not to issue a visa extension.

[ludosiam]

...and I am going to switch to a marriage Visa myself, tired of having the company scrutinized by another "well meaning institution"

[JR Texas]

But I work for myself! Well that is fine too, start a business, provide some employment to Thai's...and off you go. It is possible, and there are thousands of farangs here successfully doing the same thing.

Wrong statement! I have a business set up with my wife, staying here on a "B" visa unbroken for 6 years with work permit and a proper income tax record and had to learn that if the company does not make at least 1.000.000 profit no more extension will be granted. Posting that amount of profit will mean an additional 300.000 in taxes, I wonder how many small scale companies who do not employ foreigners in Thailand are paying this amount of tax.

JR Texas to Ludosiam: Good point.......it is like they do not want small scale foreign investment by foreigners. When you made the decision several years ago to risk losing your capital a different set of rules were in place. And those rules did not require your business to earn a specified amount of "profit" in order to get an "extension." The rules were changed in the middle of the game........creating uncertainty.......making the playing field even more crooked......this is precisely why Thailand is losing investment dollars and jobs to other countries in the region.

Most thinking people (and that obviously excludes the people that make the rules) know that small scale businesses account for the bulk of employment in virtually every country. In the USA, small scale businesses account for over 90% of all employment. The multinational corporations only hire a fraction of the total workforce (the myth is that they represent the most important sector of the economy). Given this, the smart thing to do is to encourage, not discourage small scale investment.

I know of another person with a similar story.....he finally decided to shut his business down (and lay off his Thai workers....something he did not want to do)........then he moved the entire show to The Philippines. Another person I know made a similar decision and moved his business (and jobs) to Cambodia. I hope you can make it here........I know it is not easy to do the right thing in Thailand and to actually try to make things better for the people who depend on you..........apparently when you do that you risk being labeled "undesirable." It is a sad state of affairs.

[ludosiam]

Dear ludosiam, I didn't miss that. I also didn't miss that he used 3rd world as a derogatory term everytime you mentioned Thailand in his post, and you can look at his previous posts to understand his overall sentiments towards Thailand. I think you seemed to miss that. To put it mildly, he's a despicable bigot piece of feces.

Yes, I guess I have missed that. If that poster did refer to Thailand as a 3rd world country he hasn't been in one of them.

[ludosiam]

Ludosiam to JR Texas: My last extension application was a wake up call for me. I will sure try to keep going here in Thailand as I have family, home and investment in Thailand but preparing for being labeled an undesirable in the future. No further investment locally, switching most activities from local to abroad (engineering and "on site assistance" can be done anywhere in the world), receive my payments offshore and keep them outside Thailand. Too bad I had just invested in a new factory building! As long as I can stay I will do so, but since future plans are being deterred by RTG I have to adjust accordingly.

[wolfmanjack]

Thaigoon,

Interesting that people who keep calling Thailand 3rd world and ridiculing the country are always the ones who want Thailand to change visa regulations and do anything so that people like them could stay or keep coming back to Thailand. huh.gif

Many of us that want the visa rules simplified and made more reasonable simply want to live our lives in thailand without all of the hassle that is created by the gov. We want to be able to live with our families without having the stress of worrying about how we are going to stay if they change the rules again. After I married i got the married man's visa with 200,000 in the bank. When they changed this to 400,000 I had to open a limited company so i could get a B visa. At the time I got my B visa I was legal and have been for the last 8 years even though they have changed the rules a few times. I do not know if I will be legal when it comes time to renew my visa. According to the rumors i may or may not be depending on how they value my machinery. The price I paid was well over 2 million baht but with depreciation who knows how much the gov will value them at. This is the type of stuff we are complaining about.

How would you like it if the rules on your student visa changed every 6 months and there were rumors of different requirements all of the time? It would make it kind of hard to keep your mind on your studies.

We enjoy the laid back lifestyle that a small amount of coin can buy here. We are not guests no matter how many people like to throw this word around. We pay our own way. And we bring in a large amount of foreign capital (maybe not so much per person but there are many of us) which is good for thailand. Some countries like Mexico and Panama can see the benefits. Why can't you ?? JR mentions the jobs created by the tourists. He is right that those jobs also create jobs in other sectors of the economy. All of these workers need a place to stay and eat at non tourist places. The same is true with the jobs created by small businesses like mine. the same is true for retirees. Ask an economics professor at your school to explain the "money multiplier" principal to you and it will be more clear. But then again you have demonstrated in other posts that you do not care about the poor thais that these jobs will benefit.

If they want to visit or stay in Thailand this bad, I guess their countries (like Italy in BAF's case) must be a complete sh*thole. unsure.gif

Well I am from the USA and that is where you are studying now. Is it a shithole? I want to stay in thailand because of the cost of living and my wife wants to sty by her family. Is that so wrong ????

Any way I know I am barking at the moon by trying to explain things to you so I will stop.

JR Texas: Several years ago Cambodia had a system where you could just pay a flat amount for different extensions: 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, and even 1 year. It was not expensive to get them and it was easy.Thailand could do something similar and it would put a stop to all of this BS.......a pay as you go system (easy to understand and implement).

i would not be opposed to giving the gov 10,000 baht per year for my visa instead of the 5,000 i pay now if they made it this easy. It would put more money in the gov coffers that could be used to better the educational system here.

People keep stating that tourism ONLY accounts for 6% of GDP as if that is not significant. Personally, I do not trust any of the official statistics in Thailand.

The impact of tourism is far reaching and spreads out to many other sectors.........the total impact is no doubt larger than 6% of GDP. A major and perhaps more relevant issue is how many Thais are employed in the tourism industry......my guess is that it is a very significant number.

I suppose that, given the 6% figure is "not significant," the jobs that the tourism industry creates are also "not significant." I do not agree with this, but apparently some people do...... whistling.gif

And the jobs that are created to service the people that work in the tourist industry.

About the $1000 dollar per month requirement for a pension in Mexico. In Panama, a much better place to be than Mexico, the pension per month requirement is about 500$. The Panamanian Govt. knows that once a foreigner decides to retire in Panama he will end up spending a lot of money for many years.....so they do not raise the bar too much (very smart move........the opposite of what Thailand is doing).

Thanks for pointing this out. The 2 points i was trying to make are that these govs make a reasonable financial requirement based on the cost of living in their countries and the fact that at least one of these countries takes into account the fact that the person can live for less if they do not have to pay rent.

By the way I am still waiting for a list of burdens that falangs make on the thai gov that is not already compensated by taxes and fees we pay. I can't think of any ??

Edited June 9, 2007 by wolfmanjack