Sleeping problems solved (cardio seems to help)

[robblok]

For years and years i have struggled with sleep. I tried it all, melatonin, gaba, cannabis, dream juice (Dutch sleeping medicine), xanax.  All drugs would help for a short time and then stop. Xanax never helped more then 3 nights in a row. cannabis gave the best effect but the worst for my diet. Just could not control my food intake. Cannabis also made me sleep undisturbed, but some say its less restful. 

 

Now i always owned a rowing machine but have not really been active with it for years. I always lifted my weights 3-4 times a week quite intensely. Now since i got fat because of covid as it put me in a slight depression and i did not care anymore about most things like monitoring food somewhere in november i decided to change my food back to what i normally did. That started the weight loss and then I added rowing as cardio. Slowly building it up as i hated it, so it was more a mental thing than a stamina thing.

 

Now after 1 1/2 months of rowing every day and now doing daily rows of 5000 meter and of course eating healthy my sleep has returned. No more drugs needed and my weight loss has accelerated (going to eat more to slow it down a bit). But the effects on my mood and energy and sleep have been amazing. Now I have always heard about how great exercise was for my health but im actually now experiencing it. 

 

It does take more effort then to pop a pill and it takes time to take effect but there is no way im going to stop my cardio now. I might slow it down a bit at some time. But I am more convinced now then ever that for many people excerise could be a solution to sleeping problems. But it will take time and patience. 

 

I also added a vid that explains the benefits of exercise and how in studies it has worked as good as taking drugs against depression. Just for people who want to know the science and proof behind it. I just wanted to share my experience as it has been an eye opener. But more so for me as i thought lifting weights alone would have been enough. But it seems a certain amount of cardio and volume of exercise is required to get benefits.

 

 

[tonray]

Rowing is a great exercise. Many years ago I fell into a group of semi-competitive rowers using Concept II machines. I did a few meets (inside large city Gyms in the USA)...some of these old guys at the time (over 60 grouping) could whip me at age 40 (then) during these 10 and 15K rows. Just be careful about form....easy to mess up your back over time if not using proper technique.

[robblok]

Just now, tonray said:

Rowing is a great exercise. Many years ago I fell into a group of semi-competitive rowers using Concept II machines. I did a few meets (inside large city Gyms in the USA)...some of these old guys at the time (over 60 grouping) could whip me at age 40 (then) during these 10 and 15K rows. Just be careful about form....easy to mess up your back over time if not using proper technique.

Yes one needs proper technique, but its far better then running for the body. I am not saying running is bad but its high impact. I actually have a treadmil too (for the GF) and did a few runs but at my muscle mass it hurts my back. I might add walking at an incline at some point if weight loss stalls. (lost all the covid weight but want to get to 6pack levels just for the challenge)

 

But love what rowing is doing for me. I did 10k and 15 k rows too back in the day. But im not going to extend my rows too much as I worry i might get bored and drop it. There needs to be a balance between what i like and what is effective.

 

But weight loss is nice, but the fact that my sleep is returning to normal is 10x more important. Having struggled with it so long this is for a far more amazing benefit then anything else.

 

The form i learned b4 when i rowed more, and there are plenty of vids on it. I own a concept 2 model d. Its not too hard to learn.

[scubascuba3]

Cycling is very good i highly recommend it, plus there's a social element if you do group rides, i do about 300-400km a week, never been fitter.

 

What diet change did you make?

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Cycling is very good i highly recommend it, plus there's a social element if you do group rides, i do about 300-400km a week, never been fitter.

 

What diet change did you make?

Basically i got fat because i ordered too much from grab as i just did not care and moved from my old place to the heart of BKK and was flooded by "nice"  foods. Covid got me down.

 

But my biggest change something that i failed to do in previous times that i wanted to lose weight was to totally cut out syrups + soda (the more expensive ones). I realized that it would go from one glas a day to two to three as time went on. (we are talking big glasses). I just can't control that. So i remove it completely and now only drink water / tea or soda without anything. (but if you don't have that problem then its not needed its a weakness i have)

 

Other changes were that i increased my protein intake, i added protein shakes as its easy to get protein at low caloric cost. Basically during a diet and when we get older we need more protein. As I am now working out every day with rowing and the rows are intense plus my normal intense weight lifting program. I needed all the proteins i could get to recover. Its not about muscle building but keeping the muscle and recovery.

 

I now eat salad and chicken (200+ grams)  for one meal, oats in the morning and other meal is 200 grams of chicken with bread. Then a few shakes and a cassein shake in the evening before bed. This keeps me from being hungry. 

 

Im also monitoring how much weight i lose as I don't want to exceed 1 kg per week (if you to too fast at the start and you want to get really lean you will hit a plateau and then its hard to lower food intake so i stay at a higher intake and slower rate of weight loss) Previously i went too fast and always seemed to get suck before i was at the 10% bodyfat. 

 

So now i try a different way, the 10% is just a goal as i already lost the belly and now its just to see how far i can go. 

 

But the main thing for me that i got from the cardio was the sleep thing. I really have been having problems sleeping for years and i would just cycle drugs to get some good nights sleep in. Now no drugs needed, that is actually much more important for me then the weight loss. 

 

If talking about food and losing weight, just eat you like (but try to cut out processed foods) and make sure you eat less then you burn. By keeping proteins high you feel more filled. But i think its highly personal what one likes to eat. When my gf sees the oatmeal she looks at it with disgust, while for me aots (not the processed quacker ones) with a scoop of protein keeps me full quite a while. I also ad some fruit like oranges / apples to my diet. 

 

As for your cycling, its not my thing i like my workouts at home. But exercise is really personal so that is a choice everyone should make for themselves. I cycled quite a bit when i was young. Its was the main mode of transportation until i was 16. 

 

300-400km a week is quite a nice total around the same my dad did before parkinson got hold of him. Now he still cycles for hours but with some help of the electric motor at times. It still keeps him in shape.  

[scubascuba3]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Basically i got fat because i ordered too much from grab as i just did not care and moved from my old place to the heart of BKK and was flooded by "nice"  foods. Covid got me down.

 

But my biggest change something that i failed to do in previous times that i wanted to lose weight was to totally cut out syrups + soda (the more expensive ones). I realized that it would go from one glas a day to two to three as time went on. (we are talking big glasses). I just can't control that. So i remove it completely and now only drink water / tea or soda without anything. (but if you don't have that problem then its not needed its a weakness i have)

 

Other changes were that i increased my protein intake, i added protein shakes as its easy to get protein at low caloric cost. Basically during a diet and when we get older we need more protein. As I am now working out every day with rowing and the rows are intense plus my normal intense weight lifting program. I needed all the proteins i could get to recover. Its not about muscle building but keeping the muscle and recovery.

 

I now eat salad and chicken (200+ grams)  for one meal, oats in the morning and other meal is 200 grams of chicken with bread. Then a few shakes and a cassein shake in the evening before bed. This keeps me from being hungry. 

 

Im also monitoring how much weight i lose as I don't want to exceed 1 kg per week (if you to too fast at the start and you want to get really lean you will hit a plateau and then its hard to lower food intake so i stay at a higher intake and slower rate of weight loss) Previously i went too fast and always seemed to get suck before i was at the 10% bodyfat. 

 

So now i try a different way, the 10% is just a goal as i already lost the belly and now its just to see how far i can go. 

 

But the main thing for me that i got from the cardio was the sleep thing. I really have been having problems sleeping for years and i would just cycle drugs to get some good nights sleep in. Now no drugs needed, that is actually much more important for me then the weight loss. 

 

If talking about food and losing weight, just eat you like (but try to cut out processed foods) and make sure you eat less then you burn. By keeping proteins high you feel more filled. But i think its highly personal what one likes to eat. When my gf sees the oatmeal she looks at it with disgust, while for me aots (not the processed quacker ones) with a scoop of protein keeps me full quite a while. I also ad some fruit like oranges / apples to my diet. 

 

As for your cycling, its not my thing i like my workouts at home. But exercise is really personal so that is a choice everyone should make for themselves. I cycled quite a bit when i was young. Its was the main mode of transportation until i was 16. 

 

300-400km a week is quite a nice total around the same my dad did before parkinson got hold of him. Now he still cycles for hours but with some help of the electric motor at times. It still keeps him in shape.  

Your diet sounds quite involved, mine works very well, BMI 22, minimise junk and fatty foods, fill up on carbs, eat whenever I want, how ever much I want, works well

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Your diet sounds quite involved, mine works very well, BMI 22, minimise junk and fatty foods, fill up on carbs, eat whenever I want, how ever much I want, works well

I don't do BMI as it does not take into account muscles. Its an outdated system.

 

But yes my diet is quite involved, but that has multiple reasons. I want to go to super lean and my metabolic rate has never been that great. So it just takes extra effort.

 

But I actually like my diet, but i like routine and stuff like that. That is just how I am . I function best with things laid out a bit. So for me this works well. But its not for most people that is for sure. 

 

Im pretty sure that what you do would work for me too. As that was the first step. just cutting out the junk and i lost weight on that, but the closer you get to really lean the harder it gets.

 

Plus the protein really does make a difference (I mean for recovery). But I live in a house with big kitchen so making food is easy. But the chicken on my bread, pre packed and cooked  in 100gram packages bought from a local supplier. Not that hard just put it in my contact gril, when done take it put it on the bread and toast the bread too. 

 

The only involved thing is the salad to be honest. But i just cut salad once every 3 days or so. 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Your diet sounds quite involved, mine works very well, BMI 22, minimise junk and fatty foods, fill up on carbs, eat whenever I want, how ever much I want, works well

Other question how long have you been biking ? just curious and I can understand you not having to watch too much what you eat if you do 400-500 km a week.

 

Is i doable in Thailand i mean road safety wise ?

[scubascuba3]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

Other question how long have you been biking ? just curious and I can understand you not having to watch too much what you eat if you do 400-500 km a week.

 

Is i doable in Thailand i mean road safety wise ?

About 4 years in Pattaya, but all depends on how fast and how far you go, if you get into group rides that's the best way, they have groups in Bangkok also. Safe enough no problem, outside of Pattaya many great routes. It's actually more what i eat than the cycling, about a year ago i was drifting up, not much just a few kilos but enough to know you need to change something

[robblok]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

About 4 years in Pattaya, but all depends on how fast and how far you go, if you get into group rides that's the best way, they have groups in Bangkok also. Safe enough no problem, outside of Pattaya many great routes. It's actually more what i eat than the cycling, about a year ago i was drifting up, not much just a few kilos but enough to know you need to change something

Sure for minor changes you can adjust food the way you do and cutting out junk / processed food does a lot of good.

 

But 400-500  km a week that must burn a reasonable amount of calories. And sure you can still drift upwards if you screw up diet. Saw a nice vid about a guy eating 10.000 cals in junk food (one of the fittest guys in the US) and then the whole next day he tried to burn it off. I think he came  too 8000 cals or so. (exercising all day long al kinds of stuff).

 

So yea cant out train a bad diet. But still 400-500 every week over time is a lot. Im impressed.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure for minor changes you can adjust food the way you do and cutting out junk / processed food does a lot of good.

 

But 400-500  km a week that must burn a reasonable amount of calories. And sure you can still drift upwards if you screw up diet. Saw a nice vid about a guy eating 10.000 cals in junk food (one of the fittest guys in the US) and then the whole next day he tried to burn it off. I think he came  too 8000 cals or so. (exercising all day long al kinds of stuff).

 

So yea cant out train a bad diet. But still 400-500 every week over time is a lot. Im impressed.

Guys i know do a 100km a day, gets addictive, for me 4 days is enough + 2 golf days

[Westie1]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Guys i know do a 100km a day, gets addictive, for me 4 days is enough + 2 golf days

I'm coming over to Pattaya in April and thinking of bringing my road bike. I have been many times before but never cycled. Would you have any links./contact information for cycling groups . thanks 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Guys i know do a 100km a day, gets addictive, for me 4 days is enough + 2 golf days

You need some recovery too, im doing far less then you hours wise. Im just really happy that my sleep is now normal. Really insomnia not fun. Weight loss fine, but the fact that this helped me sleep is for me even more important.

 

Right now im fine weight wise just want to see how low i can go. But the sleeping, that is really good news. No more xanax no more dream juice no more whatever. All that stuff did help but normal sleep is far better. Now i wake up feeling good. 

 

[Westie1]

Just now, robblok said:

You need some recovery too, im doing far less then you hours wise. Im just really happy that my sleep is now normal. Really insomnia not fun. Weight loss fine, but the fact that this helped me sleep is for me even more important.

 

Right now im fine weight wise just want to see how low i can go. But the sleeping, that is really good news. No more xanax no more dream juice no more whatever. All that stuff did help but normal sleep is far better. Now i wake up feeling good. 

 

Have you looked at you caffeine intake or have you heard of sleep hygiene . ie wind down before going to sleep.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Westie1 said:

Have you looked at you caffeine intake or have you heard of sleep hygiene . ie wind down before going to sleep.

Of course i have, if you have insomnia for years those are the things you try first. There is nothing worse then falling asleep then waking up and not being able to get back to sleep. Falling asleep was never a problem. Staying asleep was. 

 

Like i said tried all the drugs, but i forgot to mention the caffeine and sleep hygiene. For me that was a given, i mean first you try that and if that does not help you go to dr (did not help gave me xanax) and then you try to live with it. 

 

So i was pretty happy that my sleep started to improve and is now good. I now wake up once and then fall asleep again without trouble. So for me this was a big eye opener. It seems that cardio has an advantage over weightlifting in this aspect. 

 

I had read that exercise helps, but assumed that all exercise helps. I workout around 4 or 5 hours a week so i thought i got it covered. It was only after i started rowing again (and then one month in) that i saw the big change. 

[freedomnow]

I found no caffeine after 3-4pm did the trick.

Done.

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, Westie1 said:

I'm coming over to Pattaya in April and thinking of bringing my road bike. I have been many times before but never cycled. Would you have any links./contact information for cycling groups . thanks 

There are many groups, different speeds and times and bikes and distances. What's your average speed usually? best to get the right group, someone joined our group a few days ago, probably was too fast for him got tired made a mistake and crashed on a bend

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

I found no caffeine after 3-4pm did the trick.

Done.

I have gone without cafeine for weeks, did not do a thing. Cafeine, winding down no tv / computers before sleeping. That kind of stuff is what you start with. Once that does not help you go to a Dr (gave xanax but that only works for me like 3 nights in a row then it stops working). 

 

So basically that was no solution, so i learned living with it. Tried melatonin, gaba, Dutch dream juice (effective for a few days). Whatever. But in the end it was just cardio exercise that did it.

[Golden Triangle]

I always find a few large beers and I sleep like a log ????

[The Hammer2021]

View your sleeping pattern as a blessing and don't try to sleep  until you are tired. Not everyone is a night sleeper nor need '8' hours a night.

[Westie1]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

There are many groups, different speeds and times and bikes and distances. What's your average speed usually? best to get the right group, someone joined our group a few days ago, probably was too fast for him got tired made a mistake and crashed on a bend

Around 25/30kmph handy riding 

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, Westie1 said:

Around 25/30kmph handy riding 

ok message me nearer the time and I'll suggest a group \ meeting point.  As for links if you search Jomtien Cycling Club you'll find their details they are 22-25kmph, nice small group

[Westie1]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

ok message me nearer the time and I'll suggest a group \ meeting point.  As for links if you search Jomtien Cycling Club you'll find their details they are 22-25kmph, nice small group

thanks for that.