Bts Smart Pass

[dantilley]

Hi,

What's the deal with the BTS Smart Passes? Each time I try to buy a 30 trip pass now I get the staff trying to sell me a Smart Pass instead. Do they just have cash stored on then which diminishes as you go on your BTS trips, reduced at the normal rate for that journey (or a slightly discounted rate)? Or can you also buy a 30 trip pass to go on your Smart Pass and have that credit reducing at the usual 20 Baht per trip rate?

If they're just like a way of storing BTS journey credit, then why would anyone want one instead of a 30 trip pass, with which you can go the entire length of the Skytrain for just 20 Baht? Or are they phasing out this deal?

[blizzard]

i got smart pass. maybe its environment friendly as smart is reusable, just top up.

[Ijustwannateach]

The magnetic card passes are discontinued- they have been announcing this in tiny, tiny print on tiny notices posted at the stations for some time now. Cards which have already been purchased with magnetic credit will be valid for the next year (including the stored-credit magnetic cards).

The new cards are RFID ones (I presume that's the tech, anyway) and are read remotely by a scanner. You can still get the same deals- 30 trips valid over 30 days still cost 600B, with an initial deposit of 30B for the card itself.

You may find it annoying to change at first, but since you don't even have to take the card out of the wallet, I've found it a useful change.

[dantilley]

The new cards are RFID ones (I presume that's the tech, anyway) and are read remotely by a scanner. You can still get the same deals- 30 trips valid over 30 days still cost 600B, with an initial deposit of 30B for the card itself.

Thanks for confirming this part. Looks like I'll be buying one today then...

you don't even have to take the card out of the wallet

Actually, that's not the case - a friend who lives in the same condo building as me has found that the electronic key card that we use to get into our building clashes with the BTS Smart Passes and stops them from working, so we will have to get it out of the wallet each time (assuming the condo keycard is in my wallet at the time, which it nearly always is).

But, I still have to do that with the old style 30 trip passes anyway so no big issue really.

[Furbie]

The new cards are RFID ones (I presume that's the tech, anyway) and are read remotely by a scanner. You can still get the same deals- 30 trips valid over 30 days still cost 600B, with an initial deposit of 30B for the card itself.

Thanks for confirming this part. Looks like I'll be buying one today then...

you don't even have to take the card out of the wallet

Actually, that's not the case - a friend who lives in the same condo building as me has found that the electronic key card that we use to get into our building clashes with the BTS Smart Passes and stops them from working, so we will have to get it out of the wallet each time (assuming the condo keycard is in my wallet at the time, which it nearly always is).

But, I still have to do that with the old style 30 trip passes anyway so no big issue really.

In my wallet I now have a building access card, a BTS smart card and an MRT card. Before I got the BTS smart card, I could use my MRT card without taking it out of my wallet, but now I can not. The building access card still works from the wallet. It amazes me that MRT and BTS can not get together and use one card.

[duncaw]

It amazes me that MRT and BTS can not get together and use one card.

Why? You wouldn't buy a ticket on Air Asia and expect to be able to board a United Airways flight to LA with it would you?

[MarkBKK]

Why? You wouldn't buy a ticket on Air Asia and expect to be able to board a United Airways flight to LA with it would you?

No (but if I was there) I could stumble out of bed in London, wander into the tube, buy a single ticket, sit on the Circle Line for two hours, stumble off that and catch a bus (using the same ticket) to an overground station, catch a train (using the same ticket), maybe transfer to the DLR (using the same ticket) ... or another tube (using the same ticket) ... or another bus (using the same ticket) ... or a tram (using the same ticket). I believe certain tickets even give admission to tourist attractions.

If they can manage to do it in London it can be done anywhere.

[dantilley]

Why? You wouldn't buy a ticket on Air Asia and expect to be able to board a United Airways flight to LA with it would you?

No (but if I was there) I could stumble out of bed in London, wander into the tube, buy a single ticket, sit on the Circle Line for two hours, stumble off that and catch a bus (using the same ticket) to an overground station, catch a train (using the same ticket), maybe transfer to the DLR (using the same ticket) ... or another tube (using the same ticket) ... or another bus (using the same ticket) ... or a tram (using the same ticket). I believe certain tickets even give admission to tourist attractions.

If they can manage to do it in London it can be done anywhere.

Yeah, and they wouldn't even need so many combinations here. Just two different modes of transport comprising 3 lines between them is all that would need to be synchronised.

[DamianMavis]

The reason I gladly switched to the smart pass is the 2 year limit on your credit. I was always losing a little money with the 30 day 30 trip cards because by the end of 30 days my card would expire with a little left on it..... annoying. Now I dont have to worry about losing any money each month.

Damian

[A_Traveller]

The default stored value cards are being retained by the ticket office and you get the smart card in return with the balance transferred to it. There appears to be no choice about this, presumably so they can phase out the mechanical mag strips asap. Since there's no revenue link, unlike the London example, then one is stuck with two cards, which now both being RFID's interfere with each other. Also I had the experience of one of my ATM mag stripes dying after years when it had been nestled up against the MRT. Further, if you have MRT+BTS+True Visa RFID then nothing works . As others have said the cards have to be separate to work which mean in most case removing the card from the wallet to use it thereby defeating the object from a customer perspective.

Regards

[MarkBKK]

... Since there's no revenue link, unlike the London example ...

Sorry, I'm sure it's me being a bit thick, but I don't understand.

Revenue link between various tourist attractions, the tube, busses, Croydon (spit) trams, DLR, etc.?

I'm sure they do have a revenue link -- one takes the cash and then later they all divvie it up.

All the Skytrain and tube have to do is sell the ''magic'' tickets, account for how they've been used, and split the revenue. Er ... simple innit? Then they'll have a revenue link too.

[A_Traveller]

... Since there's no revenue link, unlike the London example ...

Sorry, I'm sure it's me being a bit thick, but I don't understand.

Revenue link between various tourist attractions, the tube, busses, Croydon (spit) trams, DLR, etc.?

I'm sure they do have a revenue link -- one takes the cash and then later they all divvie it up.

All the Skytrain and tube have to do is sell the ''magic'' tickets, account for how they've been used, and split the revenue. Er ... simple innit? Then they'll have a revenue link too.

Oyster and the services are run if memory serves, {I lived in Islington last century before these changes}, by the city authorities, either directly or indirectly, which is how the system works, hence revenue sharing by usage. Here, in Bangkok, given that two consortia were independently responsible for the BTS & MRT and that both are still operated as separate entities there are both legal and technical issues with reconciling the two, though the Bangkok governor's office has been having discussions with them.

Regards

[polecat]

Try moving the BTS card to a different section of the wallet. I had the building access/BTS card thang going on, but since moving them so they weren't on top of each other, my life has improved dramatically. I feel like taking up golf or something.

[backflip]

duncaw,

"It amazes me that MRT and BTS can not get together and use one card.

Why? You wouldn't buy a ticket on Air Asia and expect to be able to board a United Airways flight to LA with it would you?"

Your analogy is wrong. Completely and totally wrong. You think that "using a transit ticket for different systems in one city" is exactly the same as "using the same transit ticket in different cities". Oh brother. In Shanghai, you can use the same transit ticket for: the Metro (both "Skytrain" and "subway"), the maglev train, buses, boats, and taxis. You ought to get out more often.

[MarkBKK]

... Since there's no revenue link, unlike the London example ...

Sorry, I'm sure it's me being a bit thick, but I don't understand.

Revenue link between various tourist attractions, the tube, busses, Croydon (spit) trams, DLR, etc.?

I'm sure they do have a revenue link -- one takes the cash and then later they all divvie it up.

All the Skytrain and tube have to do is sell the ''magic'' tickets, account for how they've been used, and split the revenue. Er ... simple innit? Then they'll have a revenue link too.

Oyster and the services are run if memory serves, {I lived in Islington last century before these changes}, by the city authorities, either directly or indirectly, which is how the system works, hence revenue sharing by usage. Here, in Bangkok, given that two consortia were independently responsible for the BTS & MRT and that both are still operated as separate entities there are both legal and technical issues with reconciling the two, though the Bangkok governor's office has been having discussions with them.

Regards

I wasn't thinking about Oyster cards (although I'm sure the same thing applies to them), but ordinary one-day travelcards. From memory I think the tube is now under Ken's control, as is the operation of the busses, although the bus companies are discrete entities (private/public companies), like the Croydon tram. A single ticket/revenue share deal between the Skytrain and the tube is actually a very, very simple thing to implement (both technically and from an accounting POV). All it needs is the will to do it.

[Furbie]

It amazes me that MRT and BTS can not get together and use one card.

Why? You wouldn't buy a ticket on Air Asia and expect to be able to board a United Airways flight to LA with it would you?

Others have said it, but I will say it again - you are so wrong. We are talking about a mass transit system in one city that links up at certain points - you can certainly get a card to work on the other system.

[duncaw]

Here, in Bangkok, given that two consortia were independently responsible for the BTS & MRT and that both are still operated as separate entities there are both legal and technical issues with reconciling the two, though the Bangkok governor's office has been having discussions with them.

Exactly. Plus BTS is still crippled by debts and would need to obtain approval from the banks before entering into any arrangement with BMCL.

Using Shanghai as an example is complete crap - everything there being ultimately owned by the government.

London's one day travelcards date from the old days of "London Transport" before everything was split up.

[dtshin]

It's really about political will, having the two companies decide to work together. I believe it would actually increase revenue for both the MRT and BTS systems, making the transition between systems more convenient for transit riders. It's a win-win for the companies, the gov't, and definitely for us, the riders.

Some examples in the region:

Singapore's underground system is actually owned by 2 separate quasi-private companies, SMRT Corp and SBS Transit. The EZ-Link card works on the underground, buses (can't remember if it works in taxis).

In Hong Kong you can use your Octopus card in the 7-11's and some other retail shops (supermarkets, parking meters, vending machines) - HK's mass transit systems is also run by 3-4 separate companies (KCR, MTR, KMB), and they coordinate well (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_card)

Same goes with Tokyo, but there are 2 smart cards, the PASMO and Suica, for use on JR (Japan Rail), bus, and other train networks.

I say let's just get it done - AND make it a cash card. I'm annoyed that the RFID reader is quite weak here, usually I have to take the card out of my wallet before it registers.

[hotgeekus]

The sole difference between the BTS and MTR not having a similar system and the London Underground is quite simple:

1) London Underground is falling apart. Take a Northern Line train and read along the door frame, 'refurbished in 1976'. Of course, Pickadallie line is nice and modern.

2) London Underground is FILTHY. MTR here is spotless...

3) You take that ride all day with that same card in London and you will pay 25 quid.

I am sorry, but even if they hate each other, I'll take the systems here anyday. At the end of the day, they work, don't strike once a day in the summer (yes, 1997, walked to work one day a week all summer)......

The Tube, you can keep it...

[Ijustwannateach]

It would be nice to have a pass that is a real PASS, too, not just this "discounted trip" card- in other words, *as many trips as I like* between home and work for one month (or even more extended periods) with the price adjusted upwards for distance and for the increased trips- it should be more than the 30-trip pass now, but not so much that an average worker would pay 20B a trip every time (roughly 60 trips for work per month, so the monthly pass should be more than 600B but less than 1200B). Longer period passes should have proportionately lower per-trip costs, too, to reward the customer for long-term loyalty.

"S"