Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

So what you are really saying is that you don’t want unvaxxed people in crowded business because they might give it to those with a vaccine that doesn’t work. ????

What I was saying was that business owners have a right and a responsibility to prevent their businesses from becoming viral hotspots, which is bad for business.  Ask the cruise ship companies about it.

[ThLT]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

As I've explained twice before, the difference between 25% and 38% is very significant when trying to contain the exponential growth of a disease.

Again, you're arguing with me about something I'm not talking about.

 

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

38% is slightly more than one and a half times 25%.

Sure. And?

It's still 38% infection for unvaccinated and 25% for vaccinated.

 

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

That is informative and relevant.  The difference between the percentages is less informative and less relevant.  Using differences in percentages is a common technique for misleading marketing campaigns.

No, what is misleading is using a proportion of a proportion, and not describing the initial proportion that this proportion is based on. Exactly like you did.

 

Saying "but that's 152% better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" like you did, doesn't change the fact that, as described in the Lancet study, the infections were 38% for unvaccinated and 25% for vaccinated.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by ThLT

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Again, you're arguing with me about something I'm not talking about.

 

Sure. And?

It's still 38% infection for unvaccinated and 25% for vaccinated.

 

No, what is misleading is using a proportion of a proportion, and not describing the initial proportion that this proportion is based on. Exactly like you did.

 

Saying "but that's 152% better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" like you did, doesn't change the fact that, as described in the Lancet study, the infections were 38% for unvaccinated and 25% for vaccinated.

 

 

 

Let's leave it at this--you maintain that the difference between a 25% infection rate and a 38% infection rates isn't significant.

 

I, the Lancet, and epidemiologists believe the difference is very significant.

[ThLT]

38 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Who have I misled, and how?  You seem to be the only one who is confused.

You haven't misled me. I'm pointing out that you're being misleading, by saying "it's 150% more effective!"

Edited February 4, 2022 by ThLT

[ThLT]

For a third time now, you keep mixing up the topic of this thread (what I'm talking about), and what you think I'm talking about.

 

35 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Let's leave it at this--you maintain that the difference between a 25% infection rate and a 38% infection rates isn't significant.

 

I, the Lancet, and epidemiologists believe the difference is very significant.

It is significant, in the context of ending the pandemic, and on a national scale. However, infection of 25% vs 38% isn't significant to justify a phobia of unvaccinated people, which is what this thread is about.

 

Thread: "Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?"

 

And the old expectation from 2020 of "vaccines being effective at preventing infection" is false, and an expectation that didn't materialize.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by ThLT

[connda]

Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

Yep!

[The Hammer2021]

International standards will probably prevail

 

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/france-entry-tourists-without-booster-nine-months-2nd-dose-banned-new-travel-rules-1441970

Edited February 4, 2022 by The Hammer2021

[Eric Loh]

Unvaccinated people are 97 times more likely to die of Covid-19 than those with a booster, CDC director says
 

Pretty grim future for the unvaccinated. 

[ThLT]

6 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

International standards will probably prevail

 

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/france-entry-tourists-without-booster-nine-months-2nd-dose-banned-new-travel-rules-1441970

France is one of the most draconian countries for restrictions. According to you, that's "international standards" and that this "will probably prevail"?

 

Norway, Denmark lift most pandemic restrictions

 

Oh, and Thailand... :

 

Covid to be declared endemic by year's end in Thailand

 

Quote

The Public Health Ministry plans to declare Covid-19 an endemic disease by the end of this year, using its own criteria and with or without World Health Organization confirmation.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Aussie999 said:

An, certainly, in Australia, people are requested to self isolate, at home, unless they suffer severe symptoms... in other words, it's not that more severe than the seasonal flu, which does affect a minority, who need hospitalization. 

What does this have to do with your claim that hospitals will be less stressed by Omicron than by Delta? 

Omicron Drives US Deaths Higher Than in Fall's Delta Wave

Omicron, the highly contagious coronavirus variant sweeping across the country, is driving the daily American death toll higher than was the case during last fall's delta wave, with deaths likely to keep rising for days or even weeks.

The seven-day rolling average for daily new COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. has been climbing since mid-November, reaching 2,267 on Thursday and surpassing a September peak of 2,100 when delta was the dominant variant.

https://www.voanews.com/a/omicron-drives-us-deaths-higher-than-in-fall-s-delta-wave/6417795.html

[ThLT]

16 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

International standards will probably prevail

 

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/france-entry-tourists-without-booster-nine-months-2nd-dose-banned-new-travel-rules-1441970

Serious question: do you actually want to have to get a booster shot every 9 months? People complain about doing 90-day reporting at immigration. ????

Are you actually cheering for this?

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by ThLT

[pedro01]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Does your post have anything to do with my faith in current scientific publications from credible sources?

The sources that told us the vaccines prevented infection are the same you are using now.

 

"Fool me once" and all that.

 

 

[ozimoron]

8 hours ago, FalangKino said:

Stop lying. Israel has started and has trialed their 4th shot. You can not do anything there without at least the 3rd shot.

 

France has made it so you can't even enter the country without 3 shots.

 

Fauci has said we need a 4th booster.

 

 

That is 3 quick examples. I'm sure I could find more if I cared enough.

4th booster? Are you sure? You really mean shot, right?

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, pikao said:

Wrong. In Germany for example you lose your vaxxed status if you don't get the booster and Israel is at 4th jab already

Same distortion. 4th vaccination, not 4th booster.

[pedro01]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

What I was saying was that business owners have a right and a responsibility to prevent their businesses from becoming viral hotspots, which is bad for business.  Ask the cruise ship companies about it.

If you are an authoritarian, yes.

 

People have different takes on this. You need to learn to accept that this is how the world works - 'cause it ain't YOUR world.

[pedro01]

30 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Unvaccinated people are 97 times more likely to die of Covid-19 than those with a booster, CDC director says
 

Pretty grim future for the unvaccinated. 

Antivirals and other treatments are the future. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

18 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Serious question: do you actually want to have to get a booster shot every 9 months? People complain about doing 90-day reporting at immigration. ????

Are you actually cheering for this?

 

The World has had vaccinations/boosters for just over a year and they are on the fourth one already , seems jabs will be needed every four months 

[ozimoron]

7 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

Not true. I've checked with airlines directly around the globe, I have not had one airline answering you must be vaccinated to fly.

All airlines from Indonesia, where I'm currently at, and out of the country, have no restrictions. Just need a negative PCR test. No airlines entering any Nordic countries have any such restrictions either.

 

I've also checked with airports.

 

That means these are not exceptions, but the rule.

 

Where do you have your info from? 

https://www.frommers.com/tips/airfare/these-airlines-require-all-passengers-to-be-vaccinated-for-covid-19

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

The sources that told us the vaccines prevented infection are the same you are using now.

 

"Fool me once" and all that.

 

 

They do, they are just not 100% effective. Seat belts save lives, just not all lives. You would have it that if one vaccinated person gets an infection then the vaccines don't stop infections. How ridiculous.

 

https://www.wionews.com/world/one-in-5000-the-real-chances-of-a-breakthrough-infection-411455

[AndyFoxy]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

What I was saying was that business owners have a right and a responsibility to prevent their businesses from becoming viral hotspots, which is bad for business.  Ask the cruise ship companies about it.

Then why are they letting in anyone as both vaxxed and unvaxxxed spread the virus?

Edited February 4, 2022 by AndyFoxy

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, ThLT said:

You haven't misled me. I'm pointing out that you're being misleading, by saying "it's 150% more effective!"

I posted that the unvaccinated in the study were one and a half times more likely to catch Covid.  That is factually correct and informative.  It is not misleading in any way.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

For a third time now, you keep mixing up the topic of this thread (what I'm talking about), and what you think I'm talking about.

 

It is significant, in the context of ending the pandemic, and on a national scale. However, infection of 25% vs 38% isn't significant to justify a phobia of unvaccinated people, which is what this thread is about.

 

Thread: "Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?"

 

And the old expectation from 2020 of "vaccines being effective at preventing infection" is false, and an expectation that didn't materialize.

 

I don't recall anyone expressing a fear of unvaccinated people, just a desire to bring the pandemic to an end as soon as possible and with a minimum loss of life.  Living with a significant portion of the population unvaccinated means living with the pandemic significantly longer.

[beammeup]

 

This is also strange.

Edited February 4, 2022 by beammeup

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

Serious question: do you actually want to have to get a booster shot every 9 months? People complain about doing 90-day reporting at immigration. ????

Are you actually cheering for this?

 

I don't mind.  It's free, it only takes a short while, and it protects me from a disease that, according to friends and family who have had it, is best avoided.

[beammeup]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I don't recall anyone expressing a fear of unvaccinated people, just a desire to bring the pandemic to an end as soon as possible and with a minimum loss of life.  Living with a significant portion of the population unvaccinated means living with the pandemic significantly longer.

That doesnt seem to be the case in Israel

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, pedro01 said:

The sources that told us the vaccines prevented infection are the same you are using now.

 

"Fool me once" and all that.

The sources I trusted made it clear before the approval of any of the vaccines that no vaccine would be 100% effective.  Less than two years ago they were hoping for 70% to 80% effectiveness at disease prevention.  They also admitted that they did not know how long the effectiveness would last.

[RandiRona]

3 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

So your unvaccinated?

 

No respect for that.

No , I mentioned in the post that I am double vaccinated but I am still ok with other people making their health choices for themselves. I wont take any booster or any other shot since there are Pfizer tablets for after the fact.

As far as 'No Respect' for me , I can live with that as long as I am able to express my opinion and able to use free will.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, pedro01 said:

If you are an authoritarian, yes.

 

People have different takes on this. You need to learn to accept that this is how the world works - 'cause it ain't YOUR world.

You think a cruise ship owner who insists that passengers and crew have to be vaccinated is an authoritarian?  Do you realize that people can choose to not go on cruises?  People under authoritarian governments can't choose to go to other countries, at least not without great risk and difficulty.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

Then why are they letting in anyone as both vaxxed and unvaxxxed spread the virus?

The vaccinated are less likely to catch and spread the virus.  That's a good thing.  Risk reduction in general is a good thing.  Don't you agree?

[beammeup]

https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/uk-government-report-reveals-that?r=o7iqo&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

It would be great if we could all get the vax and everything would go back to normal but there are reasons why people are hesitant. Especially when it comes to their kids