AEC Freezes Thaksin's Assets, Proceeds From Shin Corp Sale

[John K]

I can’t help but chuckle at some of this money hiding. It reminds me of a cat chasing a mouse in tall grass. Listen- pounce- check.

I can’t wait to see how they will present their case in court. Interesting will be an understatement. Creative will be a more accurate description I think. Perjury will come of it I am sure when they try to show the money trail.

[Jai Dee]

AEC affirms it has never bribed anyone to stand trial against Dr Thaksin

The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) Spokesman Sak Korsanegruang (สัก กอแสงเรือง) affirms that AEC has never bribed anyone to stand trial against deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawatra.

Mr. Sak says the AEC meeting will focus on the progress in investigation of cases, including the freeze in the Shinawatra family’s bank accounts. In addition, the AEC plans to freeze an additional 500 million baht owned by Mr. Panthonthae Shinnawatra, the ex-PM’s son.

Mr. Thaksin’s lawyer earlier indicates that the AEC’s decision to freeze the Shinnawatra’s bank accounts is against the law.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 16 July 2007

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's lawyer appears before AEC

A lawyer representing former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra Monday appeared before the Assets Examination Committee. Thaksin is accused of graft in his government's rubbersapling project.

The lawyer said Thaksin's counsellors were preparing to prove the ousted leader's assets were earned legally.

- The Nation

========================

The lawyers are going to argue that Thaksin's 60 Billion Baht net worth before entering politics was derived from income obtained as a McDonald's delivery boy.... here he is in a photo ready to go out on a run and make another 30 million or so:

[sriracha john]

They found some more Big Mac Home delivery tip money...

AEC freezes 1.917 Billion Baht more of assets of Thaksin's family

The Assets Examination Committee Monday ordered another freeze of the assets of the family of former prime minister Thaksin Shianwatra worth 1.917 Billion Baht.

AEC spokesman Sak Korsaengruang said the AEC has so far frozen 65 Billion Baht worth of assets of Thaksin and his family.

- The Nation

[sriracha john]

The Swindler Family ...... errrr, I mean... the Shinawatra Family

Assets Panel Issues 8th Freeze Order on Shinawatra Family's Assets

The Assets Examination Committee issued its eighth order to freeze the assets of the deposed prime minister's wife and son, amounting to almost 2 Billion Baht.

On Monday evening, the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) came out with its eighth assets freeze order, this time on bank accounts with 1.917 Billion Baht's worth of assets, belonging to the deposed PM's wife Pojaman Shinawatra and her son Panthongtae Shinawatra.

The AEC has also asked commercial banks to keep a close eye on the bank accounts and prevent any transfers of money from those accounts.

This latest assets freeze order is believed to have come about because the AEC sub-committee examining asset transfers discovered Thaksin had failed to stop transferring his assets as the panel requested.

- Thailand Outlook

[Mid]

discovered Thaksin had failed to stop transferring his assets as the panel requested.

oh boy ,

locks is for honest theives ..................................

[Plus]

I don't think he is personally afraid of the future in any way. He doesn't have a business empire to protect, only years of service, and, well, the legacy of the coup. But the coup's legacy could be threatened only if Thaksin comes back or socialists take over. In both case Sonthi's personal disappointment will be nothing compared to what will happen to the whole country.

Go back and study how well Thailand has treated some of its leaders during tumultuous times in the recent past. Anand Panarachun, after being appointed by His Majesty the King and doing a fantastic job under very difficult times was thanked years later with a lawsuit. No wonder he has had no interest in returning. Rerngchai, out manned and out gunned and surrounded by people with as little experience as he had during 1997 did his best. Instead, years after, he was ordered to pay back THB 330 billion. He is now remembered as the man who bankrupted Thailand. Amnuay Viravan, inheriting almost worthless assets from years of lending against nothing was able to turn these pieces of crap into a more than fair return. I remember one of my friends heading one of the caretaker management teams in a failed bank after 1997 telling me that this bank lent THB 1 billion loans on pieces of property in the middle of nowhere to people he had never heard of. These were the assets Dr. Amnuay had to sell and his reward for doing a great job is to be remember as the man who sold out his country.

As it stands, 10 years from now, how do you think Sonthi will be remembered?

Anand Panyarachun is remembered as one of Thailand's best statesmen ever. Sonthi would be pleased if his name will be mentioned together with Anand.

Rernchai was made a scapegoat, true, but he was as responsible for failed baht defence as everybody else and plus some more. His only gripe is that he went down alone.

Amnuay was a political victim, if Democrats stayed in power he would be still called a saviour.

And here lies a problem - the majority of people close to power and money are morally bankrupt and irreversibly corrupt. Whoever decides to do the right thing and step on their toes will create many enemies and it will afffect how that person is remembered. Truly great leaders won't be concerned about such wordly popularity, they will treasure opinions and appreaciation of like minded people.

Ex-TRT members will never have anything good to say about Sonthi, but who cares what they think? I don't, and neither does Sonthi.

Younghusband, so far Sonthi enjoys support of all the right people in Thailand, people who guide and protect and control this country, people who actually make things work here, both in high places and on the ground. It's unthinkable that he will be tried and prosecuted unless Thaksin comes back or we have a full scale revolution. Actually Thaksin's return WILL be the revolution.

[younghusband]

I don't think he is personally afraid of the future in any way. He doesn't have a business empire to protect, only years of service, and, well, the legacy of the coup. But the coup's legacy could be threatened only if Thaksin comes back or socialists take over. In both case Sonthi's personal disappointment will be nothing compared to what will happen to the whole country.

Go back and study how well Thailand has treated some of its leaders during tumultuous times in the recent past. Anand Panarachun, after being appointed by His Majesty the King and doing a fantastic job under very difficult times was thanked years later with a lawsuit. No wonder he has had no interest in returning. Rerngchai, out manned and out gunned and surrounded by people with as little experience as he had during 1997 did his best. Instead, years after, he was ordered to pay back THB 330 billion. He is now remembered as the man who bankrupted Thailand. Amnuay Viravan, inheriting almost worthless assets from years of lending against nothing was able to turn these pieces of crap into a more than fair return. I remember one of my friends heading one of the caretaker management teams in a failed bank after 1997 telling me that this bank lent THB 1 billion loans on pieces of property in the middle of nowhere to people he had never heard of. These were the assets Dr. Amnuay had to sell and his reward for doing a great job is to be remember as the man who sold out his country.

As it stands, 10 years from now, how do you think Sonthi will be remembered?

Anand Panyarachun is remembered as one of Thailand's best statesmen ever. Sonthi would be pleased if his name will be mentioned together with Anand.

Rernchai was made a scapegoat, true, but he was as responsible for failed baht defence as everybody else and plus some more. His only gripe is that he went down alone.

Amnuay was a political victim, if Democrats stayed in power he would be still called a saviour.

And here lies a problem - the majority of people close to power and money are morally bankrupt and irreversibly corrupt. Whoever decides to do the right thing and step on their toes will create many enemies and it will afffect how that person is remembered. Truly great leaders won't be concerned about such wordly popularity, they will treasure opinions and appreaciation of like minded people.

Ex-TRT members will never have anything good to say about Sonthi, but who cares what they think? I don't, and neither does Sonthi.

Younghusband, so far Sonthi enjoys support of all the right people in Thailand, people who guide and protect and control this country, people who actually make things work here, both in high places and on the ground. It's unthinkable that he will be tried and prosecuted unless Thaksin comes back or we have a full scale revolution. Actually Thaksin's return WILL be the revolution.

I fully agree your comments on Khun Anand, although he has made some eccentric comments recently - which are easily overlooked given his great contributions to his country.

A power hungry and second rate opportunist like Sonthi is not to be compared with a genuine statesman like Khun Anand.Who knows what can happen in the future, but I too doubt whether Sonthi will get his just punishment given the old boy network for retired thugs that operates in Thailand.

I also agree your comments on the corruption of powerful and monied interests, though perhaps we have different people in mind - more likely overlapping.

Having been in the happy position of agreeing with you on most of the above, you completely lose me by your reference to the "right people " in Thailand.Who are these "right people"? Are they self appointed or were they elected? How exactly do they guide, protect and control? I understand and appreciate the great personal contribution from "high places", to use your expression - but who are these other custodians of the nation? I am genuinely puzzled.

[John K]

If I were to say who the right people are, It would be the people who have the countries best interest in mind, and not the people who look to place personal interest first at the cost of the country.

[younghusband]

If I were to say who the right people are, It would be the people who have the countries best interest in mind, and not the people who look to place personal interest first at the cost of the country.

Doesn't really help I'm afraid as what you say is couched in such a vague form that everyone would agree with it, including Thaksin no doubt if the proposition was posed in that way.It's self indulgent just to bandy around subjective value judgements anyway.My own view is that your definition would rule out 90% of the Bangkok power elite.In any case the human personality is complex and it's perfectly possible to have mixed motives -ie acting in the country's interests as one sees them but at the same time shoring up one's personal position.However in an effort to encourage people to be specific and accepting your rather trite definition, I would nominate Messrs Chuan, Abhisit and Korn from the Democrats- not because they lack flaws(they have plenty!) but they are doing their best for the country without obvious personal agendas.

[Mid]

Doesn't really help I'm afraid as what you say is couched in such a vague form that everyone would agree with it,

maybe so ,

but it sure thins the herd ............................................

[sriracha john]

Another 1.9 Billion Baht frozen

The Assets Examination Committee yesterday froze another 1.9 Billion Baht it says belongs to ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

It is the eighth time the committee has moved to suspend use of cash in accounts linked to the former PM.

The committee said the money was part of proceeds from the sale of Shin Corp shares by the Shinawatra family. Its spokesman, Sak Korsaengruang, said the amount now frozen under its order totals 65 Billion Baht.

The committee has ordered banks and financial institutions with Shinawatra-family accounts to cease activity in them.

"Even though we ordered banks to freeze the money there has been movement of cash in accounts. So we now require banks to submit evidence of withdrawals and deposits in each account held by the family that occurred after the freeze order," he said.

Of the 1.9 Billion Baht frozen yesterday, 1.3 Billion Baht was in three bank accounts in the name of Thaksin's son, Panthongtae, and later transferred to his mother, Pojaman.

They include 317.5 Million Baht in two Bangkok Bank accounts and a 1 Billion Baht open fund at Siam Commercial Bank.

- The Nation

==============================

That does help to clarify the earlier article saying that Thaksin simply didn't comply with the AEC's request and moved money... as this is saying the banks didn't comply with the freeze orders..... and that can't be good for them.

[sriracha john]

from: Another Bt1.3 billion of Thaksin funds frozen

The AEC also ordered all banks and other financial institutions to freeze all instruments involved with the accounts in their possession. They are also required to submit a financial report involved with the frozen assets to the AEC on a regular basis.

It is the first time the AEC has implemented such as accessory. The measure is aimed at preventing any transfering of frozen assets secretly, because despite the freezing order, some amounts have been transferred unknownst to the AEC.

- MCOT

[Jai Dee]

AEC freezes more accounts of Shinawatra family

The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) has frozen Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra's three financial accounts worth 1.3 billion baht in total.

The AEC Spokesman, Mr. Sak Korsaengruang, says the AEC has decided to seize three more accounts of former Prime Minister Thaksin's wife. The accounts include Bangkok Bank's Soi Aree Branch under the account name OAI Consultant Management Limited, Bangkok Bank's Soi Aree Branch under the account name OAI Education Company Limited and Thai Commercial Bank's Mutual Fund.

The AEC has also ordered Thailand's commercial banks and financial institutions to suspend the transaction of those accounts until further instruction and to hand in the accounting reports and other financial reports to the committee.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 17 July 2007

[Jai Dee]

AEC seize additional 3 bank accounts belonging to Khunying Potjaman

The Asset Examination Committee is seizing additional assets belonging to Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra (พจมาน ชินวัตร).

The Spokesperson to the Asset Examination Committee Mr. Sak Korsangruang (สัก กอแสงเรือง) reports that a special AEC meeting has resulted in the decision to freeze and seize 1.3 billion baht in 3 bank accounts belonging to Khuying Potjaman Shinawatra, the wife of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The Asset Examination Committee is also ordering the seizure of additional assets belonging to Mr. Panthongthae Shinawatra (พานทองแท้ ชินวัตร) following the discovery of monetary transfers among the Shinawatra family's many accounts.

The Asset Examination Committee has instructed banking and financial institutes to report the details of all monetary transactions and account activities related to the Shinawatra family. The AEC Spokesperson added that no AEC nominee has been established to receive a reward for providing information concerning Mr. Thaksin as was alleged.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 17 July 2007

[Plus]

It's 8.30 in Bangkok and Bangkok Post still shows yesterday's news page....

Younghusband, Johnk K nicely summarised who the right people are. Don't assume that Thais are stupid and they don't know who is doing what. The crooks know they are crooks and honest people know that even better. When crooks, led by Thaksin, started taking over the country Sonthi did what honest people expected him to do - restore law and order. They didn't ask for the coup but they approved it after the fact. Maybe not approved per se but supported generals in their aftercoup actions.

I think you seriously misjudged Sonthi when you called him a second rate opportunist. Like a guy in today's Nation wrote - people admire him for having guts to take on Thaksin, and there's nothing in it for him personally. He could have just sat out one more year till his retirement.

[younghusband]

It's 8.30 in Bangkok and Bangkok Post still shows yesterday's news page....

Younghusband, Johnk K nicely summarised who the right people are. Don't assume that Thais are stupid and they don't know who is doing what. The crooks know they are crooks and honest people know that even better. When crooks, led by Thaksin, started taking over the country Sonthi did what honest people expected him to do - restore law and order. They didn't ask for the coup but they approved it after the fact. Maybe not approved per se but supported generals in their aftercoup actions.

I think you seriously misjudged Sonthi when you called him a second rate opportunist. Like a guy in today's Nation wrote - people admire him for having guts to take on Thaksin, and there's nothing in it for him personally. He could have just sat out one more year till his retirement.

As expected no specifics about the guardians of the nation's well being, so I have still no idea who you are talking about.With respect, it is not I who assume the Thais are stupid but those who feel that the "ignorant" majority should keep their noses to the sufficiency grindstone and accept what their lords and masters dictate.Sonthi launched his illegal coup not to rid the country of corruption but to protect the old guard's vested interests.If you seriously think the country supports the junta's aftercoup actions, I would suggest you get out more.

[Plus]

I would suggest you get out more.

Poll after poll say exactly the same thing - coup was ok, now it's time for elections, we don't want anymore protests.

What should I do to my brains in order to happily ignore these polls and where exactly should I "get out"?

[John K]

It's 8.30 in Bangkok and Bangkok Post still shows yesterday's news page....

Younghusband, Johnk K nicely summarised who the right people are. Don't assume that Thais are stupid and they don't know who is doing what. The crooks know they are crooks and honest people know that even better. When crooks, led by Thaksin, started taking over the country Sonthi did what honest people expected him to do - restore law and order. They didn't ask for the coup but they approved it after the fact. Maybe not approved per se but supported generals in their aftercoup actions.

I think you seriously misjudged Sonthi when you called him a second rate opportunist. Like a guy in today's Nation wrote - people admire him for having guts to take on Thaksin, and there's nothing in it for him personally. He could have just sat out one more year till his retirement.

To add to that, so far Sonthi has done exactly what I would have done if I was in his position. The one opinion difference is he also wanted the Democrats dissolved but he accepted the ruling.

The recent get out of jail free card for the junta does provide temptation now but upon further examination I think it falls under the “Good guys finish last” category. Judging on how other countries are responding I think they see things much differently than they did in September 2006.

I think this can be described in the following way. Assuming Thailand is a person that is HIV positive, certain things must be done. First after diagnosis a cocktail of medicine is administered to reduce the viral load. That could be summarized as everything the junta has done to date plus up to the elections future. The new constitution can be seen as maintenance therapy to keep the viral load down. The freezing of Thaksin’s money is tied to this. Although he was not the source of the infection, he certainly was a catalyst to make it worse.

So as Thaksin has pushed the pendulum far to one side, and now it has swung far to the other side to compensate and restore balance.

Edited July 17, 2007 by John K

[John K]

Younghusband, I don’t have much time today to engage you in a debate so let me ask you to think about this in another light.

It is difficult to place names on people in the Thai government as who wants what. Some tend to be very sensitive and like Thaksin will send their lawyer down to file defamation charges.

However in general we can paint a composite picture based on what is going on. Asking for specific people can range from the one we can’t talk about down to the poorest street sweeper. They have Thai pride and it is their country. Our criticism here provides them a looking glass as how other perceive them, and as appearance is everything the Thais tolerate our posts. The people that post here represent countries that provide sources of income so again we are tolerated.

I think there are only 2 or 3 posters here that have access to inside information not posted in the news and I think you know who they are. Look at the big picture and see what parts are moving for and against the good of the country.

[hammered]

It's 8.30 in Bangkok and Bangkok Post still shows yesterday's news page....

Younghusband, Johnk K nicely summarised who the right people are. Don't assume that Thais are stupid and they don't know who is doing what. The crooks know they are crooks and honest people know that even better. When crooks, led by Thaksin, started taking over the country Sonthi did what honest people expected him to do - restore law and order. They didn't ask for the coup but they approved it after the fact. Maybe not approved per se but supported generals in their aftercoup actions.

I think you seriously misjudged Sonthi when you called him a second rate opportunist. Like a guy in today's Nation wrote - people admire him for having guts to take on Thaksin, and there's nothing in it for him personally. He could have just sat out one more year till his retirement.

As expected no specifics about the guardians of the nation's well being, so I have still no idea who you are talking about.With respect, it is not I who assume the Thais are stupid but those who feel that the "ignorant" majority should keep their noses to the sufficiency grindstone and accept what their lords and masters dictate.Sonthi launched his illegal coup not to rid the country of corruption but to protect the old guard's vested interests.If you seriously think the country supports the junta's aftercoup actions, I would suggest you get out more.

Hi Young husband

I am not sure what exactly you mean about support after coup activities, but in my experience up country the coup was definitely seen as having the neccessary backing and therefore even though Mr. T may to this day still be popular for some things that he did, the coup was largely accepted as being for a reason. This has been one thing that has made it very very hard for TRT to mobilise the support expected.

[younghusband]

Younghusband, I don’t have much time today to engage you in a debate so let me ask you to think about this in another light.

It is difficult to place names on people in the Thai government as who wants what. Some tend to be very sensitive and like Thaksin will send their lawyer down to file defamation charges.

However in general we can paint a composite picture based on what is going on. Asking for specific people can range from the one we can’t talk about down to the poorest street sweeper. They have Thai pride and it is their country. Our criticism here provides them a looking glass as how other perceive them, and as appearance is everything the Thais tolerate our posts. The people that post here represent countries that provide sources of income so again we are tolerated.

I think there are only 2 or 3 posters here that have access to inside information not posted in the news and I think you know who they are. Look at the big picture and see what parts are moving for and against the good of the country.

And this is the person that Plus quotes with approval!!

[younghusband]

It's 8.30 in Bangkok and Bangkok Post still shows yesterday's news page....

Younghusband, Johnk K nicely summarised who the right people are. Don't assume that Thais are stupid and they don't know who is doing what. The crooks know they are crooks and honest people know that even better. When crooks, led by Thaksin, started taking over the country Sonthi did what honest people expected him to do - restore law and order. They didn't ask for the coup but they approved it after the fact. Maybe not approved per se but supported generals in their aftercoup actions.

I think you seriously misjudged Sonthi when you called him a second rate opportunist. Like a guy in today's Nation wrote - people admire him for having guts to take on Thaksin, and there's nothing in it for him personally. He could have just sat out one more year till his retirement.

As expected no specifics about the guardians of the nation's well being, so I have still no idea who you are talking about.With respect, it is not I who assume the Thais are stupid but those who feel that the "ignorant" majority should keep their noses to the sufficiency grindstone and accept what their lords and masters dictate.Sonthi launched his illegal coup not to rid the country of corruption but to protect the old guard's vested interests.If you seriously think the country supports the junta's aftercoup actions, I would suggest you get out more.

Hi Young husband

I am not sure what exactly you mean about support after coup activities, but in my experience up country the coup was definitely seen as having the neccessary backing and therefore even though Mr. T may to this day still be popular for some things that he did, the coup was largely accepted as being for a reason. This has been one thing that has made it very very hard for TRT to mobilise the support expected.

Hammered,

The reference to support for post coup activities was really just a reference to Plus's earlier comment.I think you are right that the coup has been accepted as a fait accompli, and there is a perfectly reasonable argument -although I don't personally subscribe to it -that it was necessary to clear the political logjam.I think the TRT is a spent force, but it was always a broad coalition and in one form or another parts of it will reassemble.

Incidentally although I don't attach too much importance to the Sanam Luang numbers game, I was in the NE last week and was amazed to see military road blocks everywhere checking on travellers to Bangkok.This might be a reason why TRT is finding it hard to mobilise support.

[younghusband]

I would suggest you get out more.

Poll after poll say exactly the same thing - coup was ok, now it's time for elections, we don't want anymore protests.

What should I do to my brains in order to happily ignore these polls and where exactly should I "get out"?

There's not really a reliable polling system in Thailand, but I think you are right the country does want elections since that will end the tenure of the junta (in theory).

It seems impertinent of me to give advice to someone who clearly has a good brain but ,since you ask, try thinking of each citizen of this country of equal importance and worth.The elite has shamed the country by its selfishness and corruption and it's time to have a change.And yes the new wave is likely to have middle class or even patrician leadership.It's a question of enlightened self interest.The Bangkok elite can follow the example of the English Whigs and preserve their influence and wealth through negotiated compromise, or they can ignore the new realities and face what's coming to them.

[Plus]

People who shamed this country by selfishness and corruption have been driven out and largely silenced by the coup. Party is over.

If you mean to say that people behind the coup - Sonthi, Prem, Surayud - the "old guard" have shamed this country you are clearly mistaken. Their reputation is clean enough to suspect their critics of having ulteriour motives themselves.

You describe the elite as if that benz killer father is one of them.

[Plus]

There's not really a reliable polling system in Thailand.

You can argue that 5% advantage could go either way but not the overwhelming majority.

[Tony Clifton]

Come down hard on banks and financial institutions people not cooperating with the AEC and still allowing T's money to move around.

[thedude]

People who shamed this country by selfishness and corruption have been driven out and largely silenced by the coup. Party is over.

If you mean to say that people behind the coup - Sonthi, Prem, Surayud - the "old guard" have shamed this country you are clearly mistaken. Their reputation is clean enough to suspect their critics of having ulteriour motives themselves.

You describe the elite as if that benz killer father is one of them.

clearly you were not here during the 80's when Prem was prime minister. he's probably had more accusations thrown at him for inept administration, cronyism and corruption than Thaksin has. his reign oversaw unfettered growth in the military and its budget, and at one stage there were as many as 1 general for every 300 or so military troops in the thai army, with about half of them without a formally defined portfolio. ironically, General Prem was himself deposed by shifts in the military power structure. anyway, i think people don't realise how much their ideas are influenced by the thai media, they think they are well-informed because they read the Nation but don't realise their opinion is shaped by powerful forces behind the scenes.

[Mid]

i think people don't realise how much their ideas are influenced by the thai media

just like the currency , there are two versions of most stories , domestic and international .

[John K]

On a slightly different note, unless dates have changed Thaksin’s son is due to testify tomorrow. I wonder how that will stir the pot.

younghusband, your post #382 without substance says so much.