New crypto tax.

[Titan1962]

Crypto enthusiasts out there might be able to clarify the new ruling on crypto gains and the tax that will need to be paid. Last year there was a lot of hoo had about the withholding tax that would be applied to the sale of crypto currency’s. I see that the revenue department decided to abandon that course of action mainly due to the exchanges not wanting to adopt it. 
I can understand the problems that may cause the exchange and people selling their crypto at a loss. Bad enough losing money on a trade,but having to pay 15% tax on top of you loss would be heartbreaking.

But after looking around on various sites and reading a few articles I can only seem to find that the 15% WHT was thrown out. I can’t seem to find any definite clarification on how gains on crypto will be taxed. Surely the came to some decision on the matter.

Did they approve. Flat 15% tax on crypto profit,or did they leave it as it was. Meaning that any profit made from the sale of crypto would be classed as personal income. I see the revenue’s department tax guide allowing the first 150,000 baht to be tax free. Then it increase up to 35% depending on what your income for that year was.

Just hoping someone in this group might have a link on the crypto ruling that’s being applied now.

 

[Tbone999]

Why worry, just sell it on an exchange outside thailand??

 

[allanos]

I'm speaking under correction, but I think the Thai tax authorities have kicked the can down the road, for now.

[mrwebb8825]

So, as an American living in Thailand, using a Swiss exchange to invest in Dutch crypto, which tax office am I liable to?

[userabcd]

5 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

So, as an American living in Thailand, using a Swiss exchange to invest in Dutch crypto, which tax office am I liable to?

From what I have read and seen on the internet...you would be liable to the USA IRS.

Edited February 24, 2022 by userabcd

[davidst01]

I believe that one is subjected to captial gains tax laws in thailand at the prevailing rate. 

 

this page is out of date:

https://www.belaws.com/thailand/taxes-cryptocurrency-thailand/

 

but maybe they can help

 

I use a tin pot accountant in my city. they told me dont declare it... I havent yet sold any but interesting to hear this

[Titan1962]

2 hours ago, davidst01 said:

I believe that one is subjected to captial gains tax laws in thailand at the prevailing rate. 

 

this page is out of date:

https://www.belaws.com/thailand/taxes-cryptocurrency-thailand/

 

but maybe they can help

 

I use a tin pot accountant in my city. they told me dont declare it... I havent yet sold any but interesting to hear this

The reason I was asking,I was hoping someone might have a link to that handbook guideline the revenue department were supposed to have available at the end of January.

I have just had my tax return completed by a legal and tax company and they calculated my capital gains using the PIT guide line as per revenue departments instructions. The rate depends on income earned and it goes from 5/35%. I was able to get a deduction for my medical insurance that I have with AIA so I was pleased with that. 
 I am not saying everyone should do a return as that’s your choice. I preferred to get on done this year because I did go over the tax free threshold. I also think that because of the situation the Thai economy is in at the moment they will be looking at things a lot more closely than they did before. I am here on a retirement visa and just don’t want the hassle of the revenue department knocking on my door later on. My Thai misses thinks I am crazy lodging a return and paying tax. She tells me no one pays tax here unless your a big company. I replied,you are Thai and they can’t kick you out or cancel your visa. She just laughed and said up to you.

So from what I can gather the profit made from crypto will be taxed at 5/35%. 
If your legally married you can claim for your wife’s allowance or assistance you give to her family. Not sure how much you can claim as I just claimed as a single.

Hope this information might help.
 

[davidst01]

3 hours ago, Titan1962 said:

The reason I was asking,I was hoping someone might have a link to that handbook guideline the revenue department were supposed to have available at the end of January.

I have just had my tax return completed by a legal and tax company and they calculated my capital gains using the PIT guide line as per revenue departments instructions. The rate depends on income earned and it goes from 5/35%. I was able to get a deduction for my medical insurance that I have with AIA so I was pleased with that. 
 I am not saying everyone should do a return as that’s your choice. I preferred to get on done this year because I did go over the tax free threshold. I also think that because of the situation the Thai economy is in at the moment they will be looking at things a lot more closely than they did before. I am here on a retirement visa and just don’t want the hassle of the revenue department knocking on my door later on. My Thai misses thinks I am crazy lodging a return and paying tax. She tells me no one pays tax here unless your a big company. I replied,you are Thai and they can’t kick you out or cancel your visa. She just laughed and said up to you.

So from what I can gather the profit made from crypto will be taxed at 5/35%. 
If your legally married you can claim for your wife’s allowance or assistance you give to her family. Not sure how much you can claim as I just claimed as a single.

Hope this information might help.
 

We have a small business and paying tax. My wife made the comment why are we paying so much. The actual % that we are paying is a joke compared to the West but we are doing the legal thing like yourself. 

 

When I ever sell I will do the same as you and pay tax. I dont want anyone freezing my bank accounts etc...Best to do the legal thing

[Titan1962]

35 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

We have a small business and paying tax. My wife made the comment why are we paying so much. The actual % that we are paying is a joke compared to the West but we are doing the legal thing like yourself. 

 

When I ever sell I will do the same as you and pay tax. I dont want anyone freezing my bank accounts etc...Best to do the legal thing

I agree with you,better to play it safe than be sorry later on.

No one likes paying tax,but it’s apart of life. But looking at the tax rate here compared to back home it’s not to bad. Tax back home hits  48% plus a few levies for high income earners. They do give a 5o% discount on crypto sales if you have held that crypto for more than 1 year. 
But the cost of living here plus the 35% tax compensates for that. My misses has never paid tax in Thailand,she never earned over the 150,000. So it was a bit of an experience for her to see the PIT return. Even more of a shock going to the revenue department office and having to hand over the money. The lady at the counter nearly had to pull it out of her hand,LOL. But it’s all done now for another year,hopefully I will be able to time the market and buy back in again during this crash.

one thing I learnt,keeping better records of my purchase prices and sale prices.

Anyway hope things work out well for you when it comes time to sell.

[kokesaat]

14 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

So, as an American living in Thailand, using a Swiss exchange to invest in Dutch crypto, which tax office am I liable to?

I just completed my US tax return for the past year.  One question they now ask:  Did you sell any form of crypto currency during the past year?

 

 

[mrwebb8825]

12 hours ago, kokesaat said:

I just completed my US tax return for the past year.  One question they now ask:  Did you sell any form of crypto currency during the past year?

 

 

How did you answer? I've bought and sold over 40 crypto currencies during the past year. Some at a loss, some at a gain. Do (did) you go to your exchange service provider and get a list printed out and attach it for accuracy?

[ChrisP24]

On 2/23/2022 at 2:00 PM, mrwebb8825 said:

So, as an American living in Thailand, using a Swiss exchange to invest in Dutch crypto, which tax office am I liable to?

 

22 hours ago, userabcd said:

From what I have read and seen on the internet...you would be liable to the USA IRS.

Yep, exactly.  American citizens are taxed on their income worldwide.  But you can take a tax credit for any foreign taxes paid on that income so you should file any non-U.S. returns first (unless the tax was withheld and you aren't filing a foreign return).   Effectively, if the foreign tax rate is higher than your U.S. rate, then you won't owe anything to the IRS on that income.  But if the foreign tax rate is less then you'll owe the difference.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

How did you answer? I've bought and sold over 40 crypto currencies during the past year. Some at a loss, some at a gain. Do (did) you go to your exchange service provider and get a list printed out and attach it for accuracy?

Yes, the crypto exchanges should either provide, or enable you to run, a report.  My situation is a bit different in that I do small scale crypto mining, so I have (in theory) daily transactions in two or three cryptos, that are then automatically converted to bitcoin every few days and then transferred from the mining pool to my exchange as bitcoin.   The audit trail and accounting for that is impossible on every practical level, so I've opted to use the exchange's report showing the value of bitcoin on the days that I received it as bitcoin in the exchange as my cost basis.  I later sold some and realized a profit - - that part is easy because my taxable income is simply the total proceeds of the sales (my cost basis was zero because I mined it instead of buying it). 

 

For the portion that I held instead of selling, my taxable income is the value of the bitcoin on the days it was transferred to my exchange, and that info is on the exchange-provided report as long as I can identify which blocks I held.

 

I didn't attach a list to my tax return but I've kept it as an audit trail for my own records. 

 

 

 

[Whale]

There are also some services you can subscribe to that automatically use your exchange history via an API connection to give you a tax report printout. CoinTracker is one I use. 

[mrwebb8825]

7 hours ago, ChrisP24 said:

 

Yep, exactly.  American citizens are taxed on their income worldwide.  But you can take a tax credit for any foreign taxes paid on that income so you should file any non-U.S. returns first (unless the tax was withheld and you aren't filing a foreign return).   Effectively, if the foreign tax rate is higher than your U.S. rate, then you won't owe anything to the IRS on that income.  But if the foreign tax rate is less then you'll owe the difference.  

 

 

 

Yes, the crypto exchanges should either provide, or enable you to run, a report.  My situation is a bit different in that I do small scale crypto mining, so I have (in theory) daily transactions in two or three cryptos, that are then automatically converted to bitcoin every few days and then transferred from the mining pool to my exchange as bitcoin.   The audit trail and accounting for that is impossible on every practical level, so I've opted to use the exchange's report showing the value of bitcoin on the days that I received it as bitcoin in the exchange as my cost basis.  I later sold some and realized a profit - - that part is easy because my taxable income is simply the total proceeds of the sales (my cost basis was zero because I mined it instead of buying it). 

 

For the portion that I held instead of selling, my taxable income is the value of the bitcoin on the days it was transferred to my exchange, and that info is on the exchange-provided report as long as I can identify which blocks I held.

 

I didn't attach a list to my tax return but I've kept it as an audit trail for my own records. 

 

 

 

So, for simplicity's sake, the coins you sold netted you $500 and the coins you bought (in my case since I don't know how to mine yet) are currently valued at a $1,000 loss do you pay on the $500 or claim a loss credit of $500?

[ChrisP24]

5 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

So, for simplicity's sake, the coins you sold netted you $500 and the coins you bought (in my case since I don't know how to mine yet) are currently valued at a $1,000 loss do you pay on the $500 or claim a loss credit of $500?

In this case you have a "realized" gain of $500, and an "unrealized" loss of $1,000 so you report the $500 gain.  You can't use the loss until you actually sell and "realize" it, and that has to be in the same tax year.

 

One tactic to use is called loss harvesting where you sell for the purpose of realizing the loss, and then you buy a similar (but not identical) crypto or just wait 30+ days to buy it back.  There is a rule called the wash sale rule where if you sell something for a loss but then buy it back within 30 days, the loss can be disallowed, even if the transactions are done in two different accounts.