4 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

you can't bring back the covid dead, ignore climate change, watch the anti-vaxxers physically fight the pro-vaxxers, watch the complete breakdown of the political system and rise of authoritarian leaders and discriminatory practices - - 

 

you can't white wash injustices by saying these are not dark times... maybe the sun comes out tomorrow Annie but there is plenty of illness and darkness, sadness and sorrow to go around. 

 

Ask the restaurant owners and hotels and masseuses and chamber maids, taxi drivers who have lost their jobs... 

Unseen Alfred Hitchcock Holocaust documentary to be released : 'Disturbing' film, made in 1945 and withheld, was restored by the Imperial War Museum and will screen later this year and in 2015......

 

 

Watch it and learn something.

Watch it and weep.

11 hours ago, simon43 said:

Here are links to US teenage suicide data since 1981:

One is through 2017.

 

The other through 2015.

 

So both quite out of date.

 

Better question, what are the other ten (approximate delta between total YA suicides and YA suicides by drug overdose, assuming these figures are accurate) using to commit suicide? Hint: Bang!

 

Some portion of the increase is probably just due to the increased speed, scope, reach of information today. Another bit is probably due to the ebb/flow of general malaise associated with the (then) current local, regional, country "situation" (perception, economy, prospects, future)?

 

 

More locally, here in thailand, we're often told that love (lack thereof) and money (and a better reincarnated life) are the leading reasons.

 

 

The age demographic of this group is probably way past being young and well into the 'the older I get, the better I was' category.  Not exactly the best group to ask about youth suicide; perhaps better to ask some young people?

12 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Unseen Alfred Hitchcock Holocaust documentary to be released : 'Disturbing' film, made in 1945 and withheld, was restored by the Imperial War Museum and will screen later this year and in 2015......

 

 

Watch it and learn something.

Watch it and weep.

I really don't need more things to weep about these days... I am going to assume I have more human contact than you do w/all your Dickens and such - - plenty to weep about and mourn in the real world... 

16 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Our youth these days, if there is ever another war, the enemy trench will only have to start shouting names and they will all burst into tears and run away crying. I truly believe that our generation (growing up in the 60's - 80's) are the last great generation, can't see anything in the last 40 years worth a fig. Even my own kids think life owes them a living, God help their kids.

 

 

I find it funny to think of Generation X as the last great generation. We are normally thought of as kind of in between, nothing much, generation...between Boomers and those growing up online. 

I was at uni in the mid eighties and believe me there was heaps of wokeness and self indulgence. Lots of protests. Some valid some maybe not. I can remember some self identified feminists shouting 'Off Off Off' at a comedian who walked off stage. I thought he was funny if not a bit crass but he was cancelled.

Think of some of the music of the early 80's. The Smiths, the Cure, New Order, Echo and the Bunnymen, all my favourites, and all a bit thoughtful but a bit self indulgent and morose. Then there was the New Romantic stuff that was fun but self indulgent too. 

 

The young are always a bit morally black and white and a bit indulgent. These days the young have a megaphone through social media, and the traditional  media happy to fan the flames, when most people aren't into that stuff at all. 

 

I think we have to remember too that we felt stuff more strongly at 20 than 50 and I imagine having social media for some would amplify shyness, social awkwardness, separateness and love sickness. 

I must say most young people I meet seem decent enough. If anything a  bit more reserved in general. Maybe harder working.

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Sorry, however these are not dark times, by any means.

 

The Sun is out.

The weather is sweet.

Better than 100 years ago, in 1922, for example...

 

Better than 1962, waiting for the end of the world, during the Cuban Crisis...

 

There is nothing to apologise to me for. It takes more than a pinch or a slap to offend me.

 

Travel restrictions, fellow humans offing themselves, financial misery here and there, economies languishing, business on the brink of ruin, once happy families in tatters as they live off their meager savings, demand and supply chains in a state of lunacy, an upward incidence of terminal Karenitis. These are certainly dark times. It's been two years with no end in sight as this virus continues to mutate with gusto.

 

Can't really use the sun and weather as yardsticks. They've always been "out and sweet" in times of peace and war

 

When I was young, my gym teacher could actually punch me in the face without any recriminations. That was nuts and the giving of basic rights to young people was at least as profound as The Civil Rights Movement.

 

The young seem a little adrift and depressive to me on average. Don't hear any interest at all in backpacking to Ko Phangan. They are freer than I ever was. They can learn any fact at all on the internet. If I wanted to know about Thailand, I had the Encyclopedia Britanica and then nothing.

 

Every generation has their neurosis's and problems. My 20 year old self would have cut off an arm to have their's. I don't pretend to understand their strife and just offer them generic empathy.

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Oh....wait.

 

If you want to read about the American uni system......

 

Then...Why...

 

Why don't you read Giles Goat Boy, written by Barth?

 

Sounds interesting, but seems to be limited in availability.

 

It's not specifically the American university system I am interested in, so much as what is happening to the youth of today as a result of woke, PC, overprotective, safespace culture, along with social media/internet.

I do not know if there are any reliable numbers on Thailand. I do not think so, as this news has been suppressed at all costs. But, the rate her has gone up significantly. I have never seen the level of discontent, hopelessness, and sorrow, as I see now in Thailand. Alot of despondency, from some of the happiest people I knew, at one time. Suicides are skyrocketing, like never before. You won't see proof of that anywhere. I have a paramedic friend in Bangkok, and she shows up to homes, where the entire family has taken themselves out. The group of them sit down and weep. This is entirely on Prayuth, his failed policies and a failed administration. The army leadership is the last thing in the world this nation needs, at this time.

They need hope, not hopelessness and staggering incompetency, spectacular levels of cronyism and corruption, with alot of rich men working the franchise. 

 

The current suicide rate is beyond anything we could have ever imagined. I have a friend who has a close friend who is an EMT in Bangkok. She said they are often called out to a home, and there is anywhere from one to six people who have committed suicide. She told us recently they were called out, and the mother, father, three children, and the grandmother were found dead, from drinking poison. They left a note. There is 200 baht in the drawer. That is all we have. We cannot take care of the children any longer. There is no hope left. We cannot work, as they will not let us, and we cannot afford to eat. She said her group of nurses and EMT's just sat down on the floor and wept for a very long time. 

The people want the truth. The administration is doing everything in their power to suppress it. The police who were at the scene warned the EMT's, who needed to take photos to document the scene, that if any of the photos were shared, or posted online, they would be looking at a 15 year prison sentence for "sedition".

12 hours ago, Maha Sarakham said:

I won't speak for the deceased or claim to be an expert on the subject, but the world is a really screwed up place these days, in a number of different ways.

 

For example in Western markets, speculative housing prices are increasingly being seen as a lucrative source of investment for foreign buyers and rental firms. The government is doing nothing to protect citizens in this regard. In many desirable areas with a reasonable job market, it is nearly impossible for a young person to buy anything anymore even with 6-figure incomes straight out of college.

 

Awww.... Poor them.... Can't afford a big house in Seattle. How awful.

 

You are in Thailand....do you even get out of your luxury condo and see where and how most people live?

This is nothing at all new.

To blame it on woke culture is a transparently lame attempt to promote a right wing agenda.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Lemme see ...........

Can't see any way to ever own a home.

No degree = no job, and the course fees will leave them with 20 years of debt.

Limited access to sex, little chance of marriage and kids.

Pension age being pushed up (will soon be age 70 in the UK), work until you die.

Air travel finished due to COVID, personal freedom limited for same reason.

 

Things look pretty bleak to young people at the moment.

All very valid points. As the world population increases, and the environment continues to become degraded, the earth becomes more crowded, me too and covid continue to wreak havoc on the ability for normal people to relate to each other and make dating and even interacting with an appealing woman very difficult, and prices continue rising at a hyper inflated pace, making home ownership nearly impossible for the vast majority, while watching world conflicts continue, there has got to be a sense of hopelessness on the part of at least a portion of Gen Z. Where is my future? How am I going to make things work? What chances do I have for a fulfilling and successful life? And if not, then what?

 

You add in the extreme social disconnect, envy, jealousy, burning desire for fame and wealth brought on by the highly toxic effects of social media, and the ensuing lack of social skills, and then you add in the recent super toxic celebrity culture, and it is a tsunami for the youth. 

 

I am so grateful I grew up surrounded by good family and friends, and not in today's age. 

12 hours ago, Caldera said:

Many do seem to have very fragile egos these days and social media with their inane quest for "likes" might well be a factor.

 

The term "snowflakes" that is often being used doesn't seem far off.

Plus braking up with the girlfriend's leaves the guy's high and dry. Also the young guys in Thailand that finish university that can't find a good job might be a factor. 

Maybe the young people who have their great jobs in McDonalds, Tim Hortons, A and W KFC, etc.  realize that

they will never be able to own a house, and a crappy little condo is not the dream they want so, Bam, and bye bye.

3 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

They are simply out of touch & isolate themselves in the hyper critical world of cyber space....

Their people & actual analytical life skills never take on the layers of social interactions required to cope with each "step" of life.....

The are societally still infants,  children no matter their age....They have no real life development or coping skills....

Coupled with the cyber "value" system & not a real world system of values they are empty vessels....

Parenting is a lost art as each generation gets progressively less strident....

Ironic saying that in cyberspace

 

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

Yes, that's a bad situation for local communities.  But does it make you want to kill yourself when a teenager?  Unless you are a 100% snowflake who can't stand even a minute level of mental stress, then I suggest that it doesn't.

I'm a bit late to head of yet another generalised putting down of newer generations by bitter, censorious old ***** and the false assumptions they make (thinly veiled under the guise of "concern") but might as well attempt to give a little balance to the notion of where the age groups stand:

 

https://sprc.org/scope/age

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide

 

 

3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

you can't bring back the covid dead, ignore climate change, watch the anti-vaxxers physically fight the pro-vaxxers, watch the complete breakdown of the political system and rise of authoritarian leaders and discriminatory practices - - 

 

you can't white wash injustices by saying these are not dark times... maybe the sun comes out tomorrow Annie but there is plenty of illness and darkness, sadness and sorrow to go around. 

 

Ask the restaurant owners and hotels and masseuses and chamber maids, taxi drivers who have lost their jobs... 

Climate change? Its a con. Nothing to do with depression.

 

Money

Acne

No job

Bad family

Diet

Exercise

 

These things cause it

13 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

I'm a bit late to head of yet another generalised putting down of a new generation by bitter, censorious old ***** and the false assumptions they make (thinly veiled under the guise of "concern") but might as well attempt to give a little balance to the notion of where the age groups stand:

 

https://sprc.org/scope/age

 

 

 

Here's a good one for elderly males:

 

 

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide

 

 

Why post this off-topic reply?  I asked about teen deaths, not those for other age-groups.  The latter might be through the roof, but that's not on topic.

I think it's sad that it seems lots of people blame the kids for their situation.

Are the kids responsible for the way they are? Or are parents and teachers very much responsible for how kids grow up?

 

I see often adults with their kids in restaurants when the adults put a screen in front of the kid. The kid gets used to it. And if an adult later tries to take away that screen the kid is complaining - sometime very loud. Should we blame the kids for this situation? I don't think so.

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's sad that it seems lots of people blame the kids for their situation.

Are the kids responsible for the way they are? Or are parents and teachers very much responsible for how kids grow up?

 

I see often adults with their kids in restaurants when the adults put a screen in front of the kid. The kid gets used to it. And if an adult later tries to take away that screen the kid is complaining - sometime very loud. Should we blame the kids for this situation? I don't think so.

Parents, i have heard they saying f and c at all from mother

30 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Ironic saying that in cyberspace

 

Welcome to the echo chamber.

 

27 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Why post this off-topic reply?  I asked about teen deaths, not those for other age-groups.  The latter might be through the roof, but that's not on topic.

What you asked for was a critique of young people.

 

You rattle off "snowflake" without a second thought.

 

The same old ****.

 

The same old self righteous ****.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Lemme see ...........

Can't see any way to ever own a home.

No degree = no job, and the course fees will leave them with 20 years of debt.

Limited access to sex, little chance of marriage and kids.

Pension age being pushed up (will soon be age 70 in the UK), work until you die.

Air travel finished due to COVID, personal freedom limited for same reason.

 

Things look pretty bleak to young people at the moment.

I'm probably preaching to the choir here but all of those problems can be solved by coming to Thailand.

 

 

In answer to suicides, increased chronic depression caused by people deliberately feeling sad because some 20 yrs ago young people were being taught that they need to feel sadness/anger and other negative emotions. While that has changed into teaching people to have mindsets that lead to less dissatisfaction, those young people killing themselves now were people who went through the education system 10-20 yrs ago taught by teachers who studied teaching 20-30 years ago.

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Are the kids responsible for the way they are? Or are parents and teachers very much responsible for how kids grow up?

I've just drifted through life reacting to what other people/governments have done to me.

I accept I have no power over anything, but also accept no responsibility for anything.

I have no say over my children, I accept my wife's dictats or will be divorced and asset stripped.

(It's already happened once, so I know the reality)

 

As a middle class white man, I have no say over anything.

As a middle class white man I also accept no responsibility for anything.

 

Global warming/climate change ....... nothing to do with me.

Social unrest/lawlessness ....... nothing to do with me.

Teenage pregnancy ......... it wasn't me banging them.

 

 

Is it really THAT bad?  I don't think it's any worse than any other generation.  Not sure why old folks need to attack young folks.  We grew up differently and they will grow up differently than their kids.  Whatever.  My understanding is that life expectancy goes up every year (except maybe last year due to COVID).  So humankind must be doing alright....including the young people.

3 minutes ago, Enoon said:

What you asked for was a critique of young people.

I didn't read that, I think you're projecting your problems/prejudices onto the rest of the world.

It's a fiendish cocktail:

1. Because the modern world is artificial, vapid, and meaningless.

2. Because of the feminisation of society which has ushered in an apotheosis of frailty and emotion and which positively reinforces a sense of victimhood.

3. Because today's kids are like aphids with no personality of their own except their social media persona, and having been sheltered from harm since birth are ill-equipped for dealing with life's problems on their own.

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Climate change? Its a con. Nothing to do with depression.

 

you are saying you know everything that causes depression in everyone? 

 

what about Greta? 

 

whether or not something is a con has little to do w/whether or not people get depressed about it... 

4 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I must say most young people I meet seem decent enough.

as long as they are skinny?

It's a very interesting topic. Thanks for raising it.

 

Complex reasons, unfortunately, and it's all the things you mention.

 

Personally, I believe we live in times where people are led to believe that there is limitless opportunity, whereas in fact there is increasingly less and less. I think it's generally true to say children are also over-protected from 'ordinary trauma', so that many reach adulthood rather 'wet', and so find life rather difficult particularly in tough times.

 

For males, I think the rapid change in gender roles in society is an unspoken factor.