My main gripe with Thailand. Why I am so <deleted> at the Thais and why I ultimately left.

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, ChC1 said:

I will go direct to the point:

 

You are the one to blame. It is entirely your fault.

 

1, When in Rome, do the Roman way. The same goes to say that Thai has different social value and etiquette compare to western societies. If you decide to settle in a Thai village, respect the people there and their way of life. Here is the question you should ask yourself, if your wife is living with you in your own country, would you expect your wife to bring her Thai village attitude towards stray dogs in your country?

 

2, You are totally wrong in dealing with stray dogs

Here in US, and some part of Europe, the correct way dealing with stray dogs is to call the animal control, they pick up the dogs, check for diseases, then it will either be exterminated or send to an animal welfare shelter where it may find a new owner. What you have done is absolutely dangerous to the society and people living around you. If you have concern, pay the local vet to take her in and check her up first. You may think you have done a wonderful thing, but from a public safety point of view, you are bring potential danger to your own family.

 

There are correct way to deal with stray dogs. Thailand can not do the western way to have animal welfare teams. Then if you want to deal with it on your own, you have to take the financial burden yourself. And you need to get professional help, by paying yourself. If you can't or don't want, you should have not get involved.

 

3, Asking family or friend to take the risk of infection to bury a dead dog without compensation is cruel for your own family and friend.

So here is the thing, you want your family and friend to voluntarily help you remove the dead dog, which could be infested with diseases or parasites. Yet you don't want to spend $100 as compensation for your family and friends to take the risks and time to help you. And then you blame them for being selfish. Right, the real selfish one if YOU. The dog died in your property, you are the one responsible for the mess. Your family and friends are not your employees, they have no obligation to help you. And to remove a dead body, even animal, is a dangerous job. It has nothing to do with animal welfare nor being nice or non-selfish. It is a process with risk. You are rather selfish to expect people should do it for free, 'for the greater good' as you implies. But again it is in your private property, it is your responsibility like your wife had warned you.  

 

4, You are the culprit yet you blame Thai culture for your own failure

You ignored your wife's warning and take the responsibility. Then someone is not charitable enough in your expectation you start to blame the Thai culture and society for the attitude on 'animal welfare'. But, the reality is you did not really thought it through. Western government has its rules and procedure in dealing with situation like this. If that failed there is animal welfare charity. But in all situation, all government's advice is you should never deal with stray animals yourself. You should not feed any animals that is not your pet or get close to a stray animal. Show me any laws or regulations from any western country says otherwise and I will eat my own words. The reality is that you did something wrong and you could not admit it because you thought you were doing a good thing. You are not. Like I said, you brought danger to the village and your own wife. You might have break the law of certain countries. 

 

Stop thinking yourself being the victim. If you really care, join a animal welfare charity or start one in Thailand. Don't blame others or the society for your own failure or something failed your unreasonable expectations. 

 

I don't think you are ignorance nor stupid. I do believe, however, you lack understandings of doing things correctly and you failed to see that your wife is actually more sensible and clever than you.

 

Thailand is a 3rd World Country, but no need for foreigners to adopt the same attitude of "Money Number One" as Thai locals.  

[2long]

If the OP married and quickly bought land for an Isaan lass and had dealings in Pattaya, then assumptions can be made.

 

I am a dog lover more than you can imagine, and I agree with the OP's feelings. I also understand that the OP couldn't bury the dog from so far away.. although I'm not sure Isaan to Pattaya is 790km ????

 

We also have to bear in mind that the locals wanted nothing to do with the dog when it was alive, so the thought of burying it (with all this fear of viruses nowadays) would have come at a price. Could we assume that everyone (or at least some of the people) in the chain of communication from the person who buried it to the OP added a bit?

 

As others have already mentioned, this can't be the only reason for divorce and leaving Thailand. Either there's plenty more (marrying an Isaan girl and having dealings in Pattaya ring alarms bells for me), or maybe the whole thread is fake and a cry for attention from a self-proclaimed prolific poster. ????????

[LaosLover]

People in poor, uneducated places will always act in ways that non-poor and educated people find offensive.

 

In this internet cohort, everyone prefers the relative upsides of living in a poor and uneducated place, whether it's access to younger partners, cheaper living, or sunshine.  You have to inure yourself against the bad aspects and really like the good.

 

By moving to a small village, you def jumped into the deep end of the poor and uneducated pool.

 

That would be true in any place in the world. Me and my wife have a home in the Trumpiest part of the Bible Belt. We actually prefer the poor and uneducated people in Mexico to those living down the road from us. We have compassion for the dumb and broke wherever we come across them. We also keep them a little bit at a distance.

 

Your future would prob be much brighter in a bigger town with more access to Westerners and western values -and possibly a more westernized partner. You sound like a person who enjoys Thailand, but maybe not full on, undiluted, all of the time.  I'm def somewhere similar on that spectrum.

 

Much empathy for your loss. I too have been a dog hater who fell in love with a dog.

[NanaSomchai]

15 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

My goodness!  You keep going on and on about Thai "greed"...

 

We're talking about 3,000THB / $100!  Peanuts to perform a very unpleasant service on your behalf.  You should have considered yourself lucky.

 

Excepted to me it never was about money, it could have been 30 THB, 300 THB, 3000 THB, 30000 THB, it's still the same; it's morally and ethically wrong to take advantage of someone in a such moment of grief let alone they were pushing it only because I am a foreigner.

 

[The Hammer2021]

15 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Or maybe they just want to give their vision of the place, specially after having spent 10+ years plus there.

 

I can tolerate a lot of things... including people using dogs as a "delicacy", in order to survive you do what you have to do, you eat what you have to eat.

 

But telling me the dog has passed away because of me, putting the burden on me all while trying to extort me or ransom me of 3,000 THB is clearly praying on the weak and I'm not even getting at the part where they left the corpse to rot a whopping 8 days under the scorching sun.

 

I could also tell you how disgruntled I felt being let down by my wife at the very moment I needed her support the most.

 

Now I am done trying to integrate into the Thai society or attempting to promote a positive way of the place, rather instead I deliberately point where they (the Thais) are wrong and there are a lot of things that are wrong and say... need... ummm... say... to be "improved".

 

I now see them for what they are.

 

But people see you for what you are too. You ruined your relationship with your community by refusing to cooperate or take advice. You ruined your marriage and upset your wife by ignoring local  customs. You refused to pay to have your dog buried and left it bloated, rotting and maggot ridden for days..

 

[The Hammer2021]

22 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

It wasn't my community, it was my wife's community. End of.

You spent ten years in Thailand? And it wasn't your community. Did you live for one day in Thailand when you didn't feel superior to them?

[EVENKEEL]

The OP made a ballsy move, good on him. 

[NanaSomchai]

2 minutes ago, 2long said:

If the OP married and quickly bought land for an Isaan lass and had dealings in Pattaya, then assumptions can be made.

We had 2 properties in Pattaya, both have been sold by now. As for the assumptions, you're entitled to do your own assumptions, I guess.

 

3 minutes ago, 2long said:

I am a dog lover more than you can imagine, and I agree with the OP's feelings. I also understand that the OP couldn't bury the dog from so far away.. although I'm not sure Isaan to Pattaya is 790km

Nakhon Phanom (plus 5km to the wife's village) to Pattaya, 795km.

 

4 minutes ago, 2long said:

As others have already mentioned, this can't be the only reason for divorce and leaving Thailand. Either there's plenty more (marrying an Isaan girl and having dealings in Pattaya ring alarms bells for me), or maybe the whole thread is fake and a cry for attention from a self-proclaimed prolific poster.

Sad that I have to justify myself but yet we are. Wife was met in Pattaya, she worked in a mall (day and evening).

 

Would you like pictures of our wedding?

 

[ChC1]

15 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Excepted to me it never was about money, it could have been 30 THB, 300 THB, 3000 THB, 30000 THB, it's still the same; it's morally and ethically wrong to take advantage of someone in a such moment of grief let alone they were pushing it only because I am a foreigner.

 

It is also morally and ethically wrong to expect someone doing it for free for you just because you impose your own moral high ground on the rest of society. You are also hypocritic. If you cared about animal welfare, why would not pay a small fee to bury the animal in time? Do you really care? No. You try to paint the picture you care about her so much, yet you are too busy to blame other people for not doing it for free. In the end, you failed to remove the body at the first opportunity. It is absolutely your own fault.

[CharlieH]

6 minutes ago, 2long said:

If the OP married and quickly bought land for an Isaan lass and had dealings in Pattaya, then assumptions can be made.

 

I am a dog lover more than you can imagine, and I agree with the OP's feelings. I also understand that the OP couldn't bury the dog from so far away.. although I'm not sure Isaan to Pattaya is 790km ????

 

We also have to bear in mind that the locals wanted nothing to do with the dog when it was alive, so the thought of burying it (with all this fear of viruses nowadays) would have come at a price. Could we assume that everyone (or at least some of the people) in the chain of communication from the person who buried it to the OP added a bit?

 

As others have already mentioned, this can't be the only reason for divorce and leaving Thailand. Either there's plenty more (marrying an Isaan girl and having dealings in Pattaya ring alarms bells for me), or maybe the whole thread is fake and a cry for attention from a self-proclaimed prolific poster. ????????

Depends on actual points but as an example Udon to Pattaya is 640 ! Although not really that important to the story. Lets just leave it as he was a " long way away " ????

[The Hammer2021]

25 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Wrong. I have told a story of an expat (the term alien is derogatory) with a heart who genuinely wanted to do "the right thing"(tm) and save a life, against his wife's wish.

 

Is that a crime?

 

'Alien' is a common term to describe foreigners. It is not conferred as an insult. But I used it to indicate your sense of 'Alienation from your community- both cut adrift and in confrontation with it. 

Max Weber first coined the term 'Alienation' and it seems to describe you. It is not pejorative.

 

[NanaSomchai]

6 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

By moving to a small village, you def jumped into the deep end of the poor and uneducated pool.

I can see that now, based on my previous encounters and based on the tone of some posters here.

 

7 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

We have compassion for the dumb and broke wherever we come across them. We also keep them a little bit at a distance.

Sadly not possible in rural village life.

 

8 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

Your future would prob be much brighter in a bigger town with more access to Westerners and western values -and possibly a more westernized partner. You sound like a person who enjoys Thailand, but maybe not full on, undiluted, all of the time.  I'm def somewhere similar on that spectrum.

I have my eyes set on Saigon life at this very moment.

 

They seem more educated even though generalizations always suck.

 

9 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

Much empathy for your loss. I too have been a dog hater who fell in love with a dog.

That's the thing, I am not a dog hater either (even after being bit as a kid), I merely consider myself a guy who tried to do the right thing (tm).

 

Thank you for your empathy. Much appreciated.

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

15 hours ago, ChC1 said:

It is also morally and ethically wrong to expect someone doing it for free for you just because you impose your own moral high ground on the rest of society. You are also hypocritic. If you cared about animal welfare, why would not pay a small fee to bury the animal in time? Do you really care? No. You try to paint the picture you care about her so much, yet you are too busy to blame other people for not doing it for free. In the end, you failed to remove the body at the first opportunity. It is absolutely your own fault.

I find it fascinating how the same thread can be read by many people and get such different reactions. Forking amazing that some blame the OP and say it's his fault.

[bkk6060]

29 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Now I am done trying to integrate into the Thai society or attempting to promote a positive way of the place, rather instead I deliberately point where they (the Thais) are wrong and there are a lot of things that are wrong and say... need... ummm... say... to be "improved".

 

No, sorry you are wrong.  You are trying to promote a positive way for the place? 

Anyone who actually believes they can come here and fully integrate into Thai society and culture is very naive.  I am sure there are those that think they got it all figured out.  You don't and never will.   It is not your country and never will be no matter how many girls you marry and property you buy. And, it certainly seems quite arrogant of you to think Thais are wrong and you can change them.

Edited February 25, 2022 by bkk6060

[NotReallyHere]

15 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Excepted to me it never was about money, it could have been 30 THB, 300 THB, 3000 THB, 30000 THB, it's still the same; it's morally and ethically wrong to take advantage of someone in a such moment of grief let alone they were pushing it only because I am a foreigner.

 

"Take advantage"?  It's not their fault the dog died while you were away.  There was no planning on their part to cheat you.  You have no idea what they would have charged you if you were present and wanted them to perform the service.  Do you really think filling one dog bowl would be enough food for a 14 day trip away?  Your poor planning is responsible for the death of the dog you proclaim to have cared about.  It's amazing to me that you can be so dense.

 

"...only because I am a foreigner"?  You have no way of knowing what they would have charged a local.  Complete guesswork on your part.  And then you state that charging you 30 THB would also have been "morally and ethically wrong".  Sorry, but you did your wife a big favor...

 

 

[NanaSomchai]

15 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

But people see you for what you are too. You ruined your relationship with your community by refusing to cooperate or take advice. You ruined your marriage and upset your wife by ignoring local  customs. You refused to pay to have your dog buried and left it bloated, rotting and maggot ridden for days..

 

Disgusting post. Specially the bolded part. How clumsy of me to hope other villagers would anonymously have done the right thing in our absence.

 

And again it wasn't officially MY dog, it was the entire village's dog as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ChC1]

For those who think the OP did a correct thing. Here is USA CDC advice on stray animals:

 

Fact Sheet: Protection from Animal and Insect Hazards | Natural Disasters and Severe Weather (cdc.gov)

 

Highlight:

General

• Avoid wild or stray animals.
• Call local authorities to handle animals.
• Secure all food sources and remove any animal carcasses.
• Get rid of dead animals, according to guidelines from your local animal control authority, as soon as you can. See Animal Disposal for answers to frequently asked questions.

 

 

And this is the advice from Northern Ireland government on how to deal with stray dogs:

Lost and stray dogs | nidirect

 

highlight: If you wish you may keep a stray dog temporarily in your home while trying to contact the owner or the dog warden service (which you must do).

 

Enough said.

[NanaSomchai]

15 hours ago, ChC1 said:

It is also morally and ethically wrong to expect someone doing it for free for you just because you impose your own moral high ground on the rest of society. You are also hypocritic. If you cared about animal welfare, why would not pay a small fee to bury the animal in time? Do you really care? No. You try to paint the picture you care about her so much, yet you are too busy to blame other people for not doing it for free. In the end, you failed to remove the body at the first opportunity. It is absolutely your own fault.

All I know is that if we were friends, mates, buddies or even just neighbors, if YOU called me and asked me to bury your cat or your dog because you're out of town for a couple of days, I'd most likely do it for free and try to comfort you the next time you're back in town, but that's just me.

 

[The Hammer2021]

15 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Holy Moly that one hits like a truck.

 

Not a chance of freezing in hell anyone would have cared for that dog, it was already in very poor shape as I explained in my post, fleas, mange, etc, clearly that dog would have been exterminated.

 

The poor thing died of old age, nothing else, geeze, how could it have been infested with parasites to begin with.

 

I'm sure however 8 days later when I picked the decaying corpse it was infested, I wore plastic gloves, used a bee mask, a large trash plastic bag to carry the corpse over, at no point my skin came in contact with the decaying body itself and I buried it in a hole behind the house.

 

Two years later I'm still here and still (physically) fine.

 

Your attitude is horrendous.

 

'Your attitude is horrendous.'

Is exactly how people see you and  your destructive dog obsession.

You did everything wrong and still can't see it even though  you got divorced! Fled the country! Got drunk and screamed obscenities at everybody!!

You really upset your wife and destroyed your marriage because you were too proud to listen to good advice!

[EVENKEEL]

The Thai apologists are out in full force here.

[crouchpeter]

15 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Or maybe they just want to give their vision of the place, specially after having spent 10+ years plus there.

 

I can tolerate a lot of things... including people using dogs as a "delicacy", in order to survive you do what you have to do, you eat what you have to eat.

 

But telling me the dog has passed away because of me, putting the burden on me all while trying to extort me or ransom me of 3,000 THB is clearly praying on the weak and I'm not even getting at the part where they left the corpse to rot a whopping 8 days under the scorching sun.

 

I could also tell you how disgruntled I felt being let down by my wife at the very moment I needed her support the most.

 

Now I am done trying to integrate into the Thai society or attempting to promote a positive way of the place, rather instead I deliberately point where they (the Thais) are wrong and there are a lot of things that are wrong and say... need... ummm... say... to be "improved".

 

I now see them for what they are.

 

What surprises me, (or perhaps doesn't), is the vitriol coming from the haters and losers on this forum. This man is telling a story about his experiences in Nakhon Nowhere, and it's like he's pushed the button that activates the "inhumanity" gene.

[The Hammer2021]

4 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Disgusting post. Specially the bolded part. How clumsy of me to hope other villagers would anonymously have done the right thing in our absence.

 

And again it wasn't officially MY dog, it was the entire village's dog as far as I'm concerned.

 

As you were told in Thai culture it became your dog and your responsibility when you started to care for it.

[NotReallyHere]

5 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

I have my eyes set on Saigon life at this very moment.

 

How funny!  The Vietnamese will stick it to you worse than the Thais.  Double pricing?  You don't know the half of it...  Just another accident waiting to happen.

 

At least they eat dogs in Vietnam.  One less concern for you...

[LaosLover]

I def get the principle of the thing outrage, but if I can make a festering corpse of a dog in my front yard go magically away for a mere hundred bucks?

 

I'm laying down those banknotes on day one, in hour one. Even if it's triple the going rate. 

 

If I have to pick between standing up for myself and dragging dead dog parts across a yard to a hard to dig hole? I'm caving principle-wise as fast as I can and not looking back.

[NanaSomchai]

15 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

"Take advantage"?  It's not their fault the dog died while you were away.  There was no planning on their part to cheat you.  You have no idea what they would have charged you if you were present and wanted them to perform the service.  Do you really think filling one dog bowl would be enough food for a 14 day trip away?  Your poor planning is responsible for the death of the dog you proclaim to have cared about.  It's amazing to me that you can be so dense.

 

"...only because I am a foreigner"?  You have no way of knowing what they would have charged a local.  Complete guesswork on your part.  And then you state that charging you 30 THB would also have been "morally and ethically wrong".  Sorry, but you did your wife a big favor...

 

The only reason why I quoted you is to prevent you from editing your... your... "work" so the others get to read it.

 

What a true gentlemen!

[NanaSomchai]

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Thai apologists are out in full force here.

I believe we are on the edge of insanity.

 

[EVENKEEL]

3 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

'Your attitude is horrendous.'

Is exactly how people see you and  your destructive dog obsession.

You did everything wrong and still can't see it even though  you got divorced! Fled the country! Got drunk and screamed obscenities at everybody!!

You really upset your wife and destroyed your marriage because you were too proud to listen to good advice!

Yeah, getting drunk and yelling obscenities was the good part. ahahahaa. Someone earlier said the dog did the OP a favor, I second that. 

[CharlieH]

Seems to me, the OP has and is applying his western knowledge ideals and expectations to an Asian culture.

A bit like he knows and plays chess and cant understand why the others are playing checkers !

 

Simply,Thais socety dont think that way, react that way and certainly dont behave that way.You are very much the Alien, some would say you are not and never will be accepted, just tolerated.

Some can adapt, live their life and compromise as best they can, others cannot, and should just go be happy elsewhere.

 

[NanaSomchai]

15 hours ago, crouchpeter said:

What surprises me, (or perhaps doesn't), is the vitriol coming from the haters and losers on this forum. This man is telling a story about his experiences in Nakhon Nowhere, and it's like he's pushed the button that activates the "inhumanity" gene.

 

I wasn't even "fishing" for sympathy or anything.

 

The "beauty" of Thailand is that everyone that comes here has either a positive or a negative opinion of the place, lots of people have lots of stories to tell about the place, the food, the culture, the sights, the girls, the Thais, the scams, the politics, yet no one is an expert.

 

I merely (and I use this word with parsimony here) merely wanted to share MY experience of what life in Thailand was and how it ENDED for me and now I'm being denied of even that, being called a liar, that my post is BS, etc, etc.

 

[Chris.B]

Clearly, Thailand is not for you! I think your ex-wife seems a bit unreasonable.

 

I got some dog bowls for 20 baht each in the 20 Baht shop in Lotus. ????