VPS or VPN for speed

[brendan3150]

hi all

i shall be visiting thailand for a few months soon .


does anyone know what would allow me to recieve data from london uk the fastest , a VPN or a VPS ?

i would greatly appreciate any advice

thank you for reading

[brendan3150]

i should add that it is data i require for work , which thailand may block , and that is why i will have to use a VPN or VPS

 

i was told to set my uk router as a VPN and then connect to it when in thailand and i could receive the data with not much of a delay ( 300ms-500ms )

 

but someone else has said that a VPS with a server in london uk would be the fastest way to receive the data .

 

thanks

[Swiss1960]

Two completely different things, a virtual private server (VPS) and a virtual private network (VPN), and both irrelevant, if all you care about is speed. 

 

For speed, your main concern will be the network to choose. If you are staying at one place only, you might want to find a place with high speed fiber (i.e. 500/500 from AIS that I use), or then - if you are mobile - choose a SIM card from a provider that offers high speed roaming, maybe even on 5G, if your mobile device is capable of it and if the area is already covered by it, otherwise 4G is available almost everywhere in Thailand.

VPS and VPN are security and privacy features that you can use, but they actually slow your throughput down a bit. If https:// is good enough for you and speed is your main concern, then there is no need for that. 
- VPS speed is dependent on the Compute power that the provider has on his server, you need to read those specs.

- VPN speed is dependent on the throughput of the VPN server you choose. Since most VPN provider give you the option to choose from multiple VPN servers (my VPN provider offers 5 servers in Switzerland alone), you will need to find the provider that offers a server near to your data in the UK with good enough throughput.

[brendan3150]

thanks very much for the reply swiss1960

 

would you mind if i sent you a private message ?

 

no worries if you would rather i didn't

 

[brendan3150]

18 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

Two completely different things, a virtual private server (VPS) and a virtual private network (VPN), and both irrelevant, if all you care about is speed. 

 

For speed, your main concern will be the network to choose. If you are staying at one place only, you might want to find a place with high speed fiber (i.e. 500/500 from AIS that I use), or then - if you are mobile - choose a SIM card from a provider that offers high speed roaming, maybe even on 5G, if your mobile device is capable of it and if the area is already covered by it, otherwise 4G is available almost everywhere in Thailand.

VPS and VPN are security and privacy features that you can use, but they actually slow your throughput down a bit. If https:// is good enough for you and speed is your main concern, then there is no need for that. 
- VPS speed is dependent on the Compute power that the provider has on his server, you need to read those specs.

- VPN speed is dependent on the throughput of the VPN server you choose. Since most VPN provider give you the option to choose from multiple VPN servers (my VPN provider offers 5 servers in Switzerland alone), you will need to find the provider that offers a server near to your data in the UK with good enough throughput.

thank you swiss1960

[Swiss1960]

8 minutes ago, brendan3150 said:

thank you swiss1960

You can, if you like. But I guarantee you, there will be many more messages popping up shortly in your thread, so you will have plenty of options and advices to choose from.

[brendan3150]

13 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

You can, if you like. But I guarantee you, there will be many more messages popping up shortly in your thread, so you will have plenty of options and advices to choose from.

thanks, i have sent you a message .

[Roger That]

How exactly are you going to be receiving this data from London? Knowing that might help understand what might be the best solution (if one is indeed required, which I doubt).

[fdsa]

9 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

i was told to set my uk router as a VPN and then connect to it when in thailand and i could receive the data with not much of a delay ( 300ms-500ms )

 

but someone else has said that a VPS with a server in london uk would be the fastest way to receive the data .

 

Do you need to download the "data" from your home or from some office in London? If the former then you should definitely setup a VPN server on your home router (if it supports that function, not many do BTW) and connect to it.

If the latter - then it depends on what you need more - fast connection (in terms of pings - latency in ms) or high download speed (in megabits/s). The public VPN services might have faster connection because they might have found the best datacenter to rent their servers from*, but high amount of their simultaneous users will definitely drop the download speed down. So if you need the high download speed instead and don't really care about ping time then you should buy a VPS/VDS** and setup your own VPN there.

 

* - note that VPN services might don't give a thing about connection speeds and choose the cheapest datacenters instead of fastests ones to lower the costs and maximize the profits, so you might get even higher ping time on the VPN service compared to VPS/VDS or your home router.

** - it is extremely important to choose the correct virtual environment for setting up your own VPN. There is a lot of marketing bullsh't around virtual servers, also hosters are intentionally confusing the terms to conceal the information about the real technology they use. You should buy servers made only with "KVM", "Xen", or "VMWare" technologies, and stay away from "LXC", "OpenVZ", "Virtuozzo" ones.

[brendan3150]

3 hours ago, Roger That said:

How exactly are you going to be receiving this data from London? Knowing that might help understand what might be the best solution (if one is indeed required, which I doubt).

thanks for the reply roger

[brendan3150]

1 hour ago, fdsa said:

 

Do you need to download the "data" from your home or from some office in London? If the former then you should definitely setup a VPN server on your home router (if it supports that function, not many do BTW) and connect to it.

If the latter - then it depends on what you need more - fast connection (in terms of pings - latency in ms) or high download speed (in megabits/s). The public VPN services might have faster connection because they might have found the best datacenter to rent their servers from*, but high amount of their simultaneous users will definitely drop the download speed down. So if you need the high download speed instead and don't really care about ping time then you should buy a VPS/VDS** and setup your own VPN there.

 

* - note that VPN services might don't give a thing about connection speeds and choose the cheapest datacenters instead of fastests ones to lower the costs and maximize the profits, so you might get even higher ping time on the VPN service compared to VPS/VDS or your home router.

** - it is extremely important to choose the correct virtual environment for setting up your own VPN. There is a lot of marketing bullsh't around virtual servers, also hosters are intentionally confusing the terms to conceal the information about the real technology they use. You should buy servers made only with "KVM", "Xen", or "VMWare" technologies, and stay away from "LXC", "OpenVZ", "Virtuozzo" ones.

thank you fdsa

 

the data will come from a currency/stock exchange which i think may be blocked in thailand. i need to receive that data in as fast a time as possible when in thailand .

[brendan3150]

3 hours ago, Roger That said:

How exactly are you going to be receiving this data from London? Knowing that might help understand what might be the best solution (if one is indeed required, which I doubt).

sorry roger , my reply above was to yourself too . i believe the data is only available to people living in the UK . so i need to either use a VPN to make it look like i am in the UK , or set up a VPS in the UK . i have had conflicting views as which way would be the fastest way to receive the data .

 

 i was told to set my home UK router as a vpn which my interaction with the exchange will go through would be the fastest route . but also told a VPS with its server based in london would be fastest .

 

with the VPN way , i would have my trading programme on my thai computer so there would be no mouse cursor movement lag , which is very important as i have to react very quickly and precisely as to where i click on my trading programme

[fdsa]

2 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

the data will come from a currency/stock exchange which i think may be blocked in thailand. i need to receive that data in as fast a time as possible when in thailand .

so you need a minimum ping time rather than high download speeds. This way you will have to choose between different VPN services to find the fastest one. Or setup a VDS inside the same datacenter where does your exchange website hosted.

 

2 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

i have to react very quickly and precisely as to where i click on my trading programme

There won't be any cursor movement lag but there will definitely be a lag between click&response, at least 200ms but maybe up to 500ms. Comparing to an online game it could be considered an extremely slow connection with extremely high lag.

 

If you still want to go that route (rather than staying in UK ) you should use the wired internet only, because mobile or Wi-Fi will add up to 100 extra ms.

 

[brendan3150]

1 hour ago, fdsa said:

so you need a minimum ping time rather than high download speeds. This way you will have to choose between different VPN services to find the fastest one. Or setup a VDS inside the same datacenter where does your exchange website hosted.

 

There won't be any cursor movement lag but there will definitely be a lag between click&response, at least 200ms but maybe up to 500ms. Comparing to an online game it could be considered an extremely slow connection with extremely high lag.

 

If you still want to go that route (rather than staying in UK ) you should use the wired internet only, because mobile or Wi-Fi will add up to 100 extra ms.

 

thanks for the advice. yes i will always use wired . good to hear that there will be no lag

[Pmbkk]

 

I'd also look at the issues you may experience when things don't go to plan:

 

    Network down / slow. Thailand still has many issues so you need a backup to connect
    Issues with your security on your PC to connect to the office
    Office software if it's required to get through your office firewall fails

    Remote IT support from the office
    Your PC crashes. Requirement of a new one and loading office software remotely
    If you're expected to do up to the sec' work/support can be troublesome.

 

As long as your office know you're in Thailand you should be ok, but I'd bring (or did) a backup PC

[brendan3150]

50 minutes ago, Pmbkk said:

 

I'd also look at the issues you may experience when things don't go to plan:

 

    Network down / slow. Thailand still has many issues so you need a backup to connect
    Issues with your security on your PC to connect to the office
    Office software if it's required to get through your office firewall fails

    Remote IT support from the office
    Your PC crashes. Requirement of a new one and loading office software remotely
    If you're expected to do up to the sec' work/support can be troublesome.

 

As long as your office know you're in Thailand you should be ok, but I'd bring (or did) a backup PC

thanks Pmbkk .

 

i work from home trading for myself . so no real office to speak of .

if i have issues with my UK pc i have friends that can go to my home to re-boot .

thai network or internet being down is an issue that would cause problems . does it happen often in thailand ?

 

 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

5 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

the data will come from a currency/stock exchange which i think may be blocked in thailand. i need to receive that data in as fast a time as possible when in thailand .

If you're trading and latency is business critical for you, you should be looking at a leased line/private circuit.

 

If this is cost prohibitive you can set up what I can a "poor man's leased line". I am an IT consultant working in the IT sphere in Thailand for decades, so I can offer some pretty comprehensive advice on this topic. . . This is what I am doing for my UK connections. I have a part-rack in a Singapore datacentre. I run a VPS in the CAT IDC in Bangkok, which I use to rent uncontended international bandwidth (something like 500 Baht per Mbit last time I checked). I tunnel into that from my office, NAT the connection through the Bangkok VPS through another tunnel to my rack in Singapore, and then onto my rack in the UK via yet another tunnel. Latency is circa 180 ms round trip.

 

If you don't have the expertise to set this sort of thing up, you can pay someone like me $$$$$$$ or just get a leased line. You're never going to get reliable latency with a commercial VPN provider. Leased lines will give you uncontended bandwidth and priority latency but you're still hamstrung by regulatory blocks. You will need your own network setting up if you want reliability and predictability.

 

If you're just a one man band trader, get real about your expectations. In all likelihood you won't notice your latency.

 

 

[brendan3150]

18 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

If you're trading and latency is business critical for you, you should be looking at a leased line/private circuit.

 

If this is cost prohibitive you can set up what I can a "poor man's leased line". I am an IT consultant working in the IT sphere in Thailand for decades, so I can offer some pretty comprehensive advice on this topic. . . This is what I am doing for my UK connections. I have a part-rack in a Singapore datacentre. I run a VPS in the CAT IDC in Bangkok, which I use to rent uncontended international bandwidth (something like 500 Baht per Mbit last time I checked). I tunnel into that from my office, NAT the connection through the Bangkok VPS through another tunnel to my rack in Singapore, and then onto my rack in the UK via yet another tunnel. Latency is circa 180 ms round trip.

 

If you don't have the expertise to set this sort of thing up, you can pay someone like me $$$$$$$ or just get a leased line. You're never going to get reliable latency with a commercial VPN provider. Leased lines will give you uncontended bandwidth and priority latency but you're still hamstrung by regulatory blocks. You will need your own network setting up if you want reliability and predictability.

 

If you're just a one man band trader, get real about your expectations. In all likelihood you won't notice your latency.

 

 

thanks led . i think i understood about 20% of that lol . how much a month in baht would a leased line be ?

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

It's a big variable but it's always costly no matter what. You're paying for the privilege of being able to yank someone's ear at 02:00 HRS if the line goes down and cost doesn't just depend on the speeds you require but the Service level Agreement terms (i.e. does it take them 1 hour to fix, or 4 hours etc etc). For an individual like yourself you would probably be well served by just ordering two or three consumer grade lines and combining them into a failover arrangement with a pfSense gateway. You get VERY high reliability like this for very little cost. It won't matter if one of the lines goes down for days because you have two backups automatically failing over to the others.

 

 

[brendan3150]

thanks i will take a look at this option

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

... deleted, see below. . .

 

 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

17 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

i shall be visiting thailand for a few months soon .

Oh, I guess you won't be ordering any fixed lines then. I should have read the OP properly.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

1 hour ago, brendan3150 said:

if i have issues with my UK pc i have friends that can go to my home to re-boot .

Since you have a home in the UK, you can set up a Raspberry Pi, leave it switched on at home, run OpenVPN on it and just dial into the Pi from your notebook anywhere in the world. It'll be like you're surfing the internet at home. It's really that simple. You can expect speeds of 20 or 30 Mbps with a Pi3.

[brendan3150]

4 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

Since you have a home in the UK, you can set up a Raspberry Pi, leave it switched on at home, run OpenVPN on it and just dial into the Pi from your notebook anywhere in the world. It'll be like you're surfing the internet at home. It's really that simple. You can expect speeds of 20 or 30 Mbps with a Pi3.

would this be a faster way to receive the data rather than setting up a VPS in london and signing into the VPS from thailand ?

 

 

[brendan3150]

i just read your signature ????

 

excellent

[brendan3150]

i have just looked at what a Pi3 is .

 

as i have a computer that i will leave at home in the UK , can i use this to run an openvpn on it ?

 

or even set up my router in a way so that all information goes through my uk router to thailand, then from thailand through the uk router on to the exchange ?

 

[Roger That]

Can you tell us the name of the app / website you will actually be using? All these ideas are just based on various assumptions.  You won't be using a leased line, I am sure of that.

 

I am no trader but I can't imagine latency of 200 - 300ms (which is what I typically see between here and UK) will make any significant difference. We're talking well under half a second here.  Surely it's not that time critical?

[fdsa]

2 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I tunnel into that from my office, NAT the connection through the Bangkok VPS through another tunnel to my rack in Singapore, and then onto my rack in the UK via yet another tunnel. Latency is circa 180 ms round trip.

Which datacenter you use? I have servers in OVH SG-1 and SG-2 and get 150-170 ms to servers in London (Netconnex/Thinkbroadband). And 60-80ms from Thailand (mobile network) to Singapore, so 210-250 ms total.

 

Still faster than the direct connection though ???? If I ping London directly from Thailand I get 240-300 ms.

[fdsa]

I've decided to answer the private message here as it might help other users as well.

 

 

4 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

i need to make it look like i am still in the uk and that i am working from the uk . the 2 options i have been told are to set my home uk router as a VPN , or to set up a VPS in the uk .

 

Yes, both of these options will make it look like you are in the UK. But depending on the website's security measures they might detect your use of VPN. For example, they could check your IP address owner, and block it if it belongs to the datacenter - in case of VPS or commercial VPN service, and allow it if the IP comes from the home network provider - in case of VPN on your router.

 

Also there are a lot of other ways to determine that you are _not_ in the UK (for example, your operating system transmits your current timezone to every website visited so they will know that you have GMT+7 instead of GMT+0).

 

So in terms of speed I would suggest using a VPS in the same UK datacenter as your website uses, but in terms of privacy (if you need to look like you are still in the UK) you should setup a VPN on your home router.

 

To sum up: you should find out if that website actually blocks users who are not residing in UK. And if it does - try to find out how does that website determine that. Google for "yourwebsitename account blocked for VPN" or something like this.

[Roger That]

18 minutes ago, fdsa said:

Which datacenter you use? I have servers in OVH SG-1 and SG-2 and get 150-170 ms to servers in London (Netconnex/Thinkbroadband). And 60-80ms from Thailand (mobile network) to Singapore, so 210-250 ms total.

 

Still faster than the direct connection though ???? If I ping London directly from Thailand I get 240-300 ms.

That's interesting, if I ping my home router in UK (not London) from here in BKK I get 201 - 203ms right now. But sometimes it is around 300ms, I am not sure why. I guess it depends on some ISP routing.

 

There is fibre-to-the-premises on both sides, which might help a bit.