In Thailand, the war in Ukraine divides the generations

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Not only people with brain have got a second thought after the history of Ukraine Nazi organization, also some parliaments where the daily show are  being presented. 

 

For instance yesterday in Greece where the parliamentarians were outraged when Zelenskyy introduced them a Greek who joined the Azov regiment. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-04-07/azov-fighter-video-overshadows-zelenskiys-address-to-greek-lawmakers

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/zelenskyy-speech-at-greek-parliament-overshadowed-by-azov-video/

Only some of the left wing parliamentarians were outraged and the Azov regiment is largely de-ideologised and integrated into the Ukrainian army now. It's reportedly the Wagner group, led by Putin's pal that doing much of the killing and raping. They are the real nazis.

 

"Intercepted radio chatter apparently consolidates claims that Russian troops committed atrocities in the town of Bucha, the German weekly magazine Der Spiegel has reported. It also said that the Russian mercenary unit called the Wagner Group played "a leading role in the atrocities."

The claims by the publication come on the heels of separate audio released by Ukraine's Security Service, which although not independently verified, purportedly also shows Russian troops getting orders to kill civilians.

The US and European Union have linked Yevgeny Prigozhin, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, to the Wagner Group, which has been accused of committing war crimes and human-rights abuses in Syria in 2015.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/der-spiegel-russia-ukraine-troops-bucha-wagner-putin-1695974

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by ozimoron

[Mac Mickmanus]

27 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

The most disgusting post of the week. Actually, you don't have an idea about what is happening in Ukraine and Russia. And you DON'T CARE. This is what is really disgusting about your post.

Two or three sides to every story? My own 8 years old son just got lucky to get out of Kiev 3 weeks ago (it took 7 days exhausting trip to the Slovakian border). Most of the boys and girls he studies with - they are still there, under the Putin's bombs. Ukrainian children are killed on a daily basis! And here you find "other sides" to this story? This is because YOU DON'T REALLY CARE! So , please, shut up. Just shut up.

 

You misunderstood .

  He was talking about ordinary Russian civilians , rather then the Government and Military .

   

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Not only people with brain have got a second thought after the history of Ukraine Nazi organization, also some parliaments where the daily show are  being presented. 

 

For instance yesterday in Greece where the parliamentarians were outraged when Zelenskyy introduced them a Greek who joined the Azov regiment. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-04-07/azov-fighter-video-overshadows-zelenskiys-address-to-greek-lawmakers

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/zelenskyy-speech-at-greek-parliament-overshadowed-by-azov-video/

 

 

You're really reaching, aren't you? So what?

Was Zelensky supported by the right wing party affiliated with Azov? No.

What percentage of the popular vote did that party get in the last election? If you answered with a number greater than 2.15% you'd be wrong.

And finally, here's the results of a poll from the Pew Research Center:

Out of all these nations surveyed, Ukraine had the lowest level of citizens responding negative when asked if they would accept Jews as fellow citizens.

Does it seem to you that this is a nation that needs to be de-Nazified which is what the Russian Govt claims?

 

 

[Hellfire]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You misunderstood .

  He was talking about ordinary Russian civilians , rather then the Government and Military .

   

 Do you remember those "ordinary German civilians" after the World War 2? Somehow, they all were made responsible for the Nazi regime's actions. This and only this helped the Germans to overcome their evil past and to become a modern and successful society today. The Germans collectively denounced their past. Unless Russians go through the same process for the Stalin and Putin regimes' crimes - they will never change, will never become a part of the civilized world.  More than 50% of Russians support Putin (and Stalin, too). Most probably, much more.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Hellfire

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

 Do you remember those "ordinary German civilians" after the World War 2? Somehow, they all were made responsible for the Nazi regime's actions. This and only this helped the Germans to overcome their evil past and to become a modern and successful society today. Unless Russians go through the same process for the Stalin and Putin regimes' crimes - they will never change, will never become a part of the civilized world.  

 

 

It was understood at the time that the general German population were unaware of the atrocities being carried out by the Nazi regime and the civilians were not responsible for the actions of the military , also , there isnt much civilians can do about it 

[Saanim]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You're really reaching, aren't you? So what?

Was Zelensky supported by the right wing party affiliated with Azov? No.

What percentage of the popular vote did that party get in the last election? If you answered with a number greater than 2.15% you'd be wrong.

And finally, here's the results of a poll from the Pew Research Center:

Out of all these nations surveyed, Ukraine had the lowest level of citizens responding negative when asked if they would accept Jews as fellow citizens.

Does it seem to you that this is a nation that needs to be de-Nazified which is what the Russian Govt claims?

 

 

Do you really believe what you read in a "reliable" media? Then you obviously also had believed what the same media told you some time ago about ... (sorry, I do not want to get it deleted for "off-topic). 

 

Perhaps this will not be considered "off-topic":

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-using-declassified-intel-fight-info-war-russia-even-intel-isnt-rock-rcna23014 

[Hellfire]

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was understood at the time that the general German population were unaware of the atrocities being carried out by the Nazi regime and the civilians were not responsible for the actions of the military , also , there isnt much civilians can do about it 

 Well, modern day Russians are well aware of the Putin's and Stalin's atrocities. And most of them support those. I don't say you have to attack any Russian you meet. But those refusing to denounce Putin regime's crimes - should be treated respectively (no entry to the civilized world, the least). 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Hellfire

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

 Well, modern day Russians are well aware of the Putin's and Stalin's atrocities. And most of them support those. I don't say you have to attack any Russian you meet. But those refusing to denounce Putin regime's crimes - should be treated respectively (no entry to the civilized world, the least). 

 

 

What percentage of Russians support the war in Ukraine ?

[Hellfire]

13 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Do you really believe what you read in a "reliable" media? Then you obviously also had believed what the same media told you some time ago about ... (sorry, I do not want to get it deleted for "off-topic). 

 

Perhaps this will not be considered "off-topic":

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-using-declassified-intel-fight-info-war-russia-even-intel-isnt-rock-rcna23014 

Who should we believe instead? The media of the Russian Pharaoh? Independent and free? Russia is still the country of GULAG. People are still tortured in the Russian prisons the same way they were tortured in the Stalin's times (just read and watch the recent Russian penitentiary exposures). Nothing really changed. And here you cast doubts on the Western press? Really?

[Hellfire]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What percentage of Russians support the war in Ukraine ?

It is hard to say because there is no any independent body to analyze it. My personal experience - not less than 70%. Hope I am wrong. 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Saanim said:

Do you really believe what you read in a "reliable" media? Then you obviously also had believed what the same media told you some time ago about ... (sorry, I do not want to get it deleted for "off-topic). 

 

Perhaps this will not be considered "off-topic":

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-using-declassified-intel-fight-info-war-russia-even-intel-isnt-rock-rcna23014 

Yes, and the article explains why they are doing it. After all, this is the same Putin who has raised the possibility of using nuclear weapons. And as you might recall, Russia actually claimed it was withdrawing troops that it had amassed on the border of Ukraine and denied that it was going to invade, right up until the day it did. The Biden administration kept on releasing intelligence info that the Russians were lying and that Russia was going to invade. Russians overwhelmingly believed their government and Russian media.

And I see you have no answer for the Russian govt claims that it is fighting  a Nazi government in Ukraine, a Nazi army, and a large proportion of civilians who are also Nazis.

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What percentage of Russians support the war in Ukraine ?

I don't think they had a referendum or vote on this yet.

[Lacessit]

Evil that knows no bounds......

 

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2022/04/09/russian-missile-attack-train-station/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Saturday News - 20220409

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, Hellfire said:

I wonder how many of those Thais supporting the Russian cannibal Putin are actually Chinese Thai? I spoke to several Isaan Thais - all of them told me they don't like what Putin does.

You know, one of the many things the Ukrainian govt and ethnic ukrainian citizens should be commended for is their lack of comments suggesting that ethnic Ukrainian Russians are somehow untrustworthy. You would do well to follow their example and refrain from bigotry.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I don't think they had a referendum or vote on this yet.

I saw a recent article that said Putin's popularity had gone from about 70% to above 80% with Russians, which demonstrates the power of media when all other voices are stifled or howled down.

 

I'm wondering how that figure will change when the Russian economy collapses. Every foreign company is either pulling out of Russia, or suspending operations.

Aviation, automotive and other industries can't get spare parts to sustain their businesses.

How much money is Putin's war machine sucking in to keep going in Ukraine?

There's a lot of unemployed Russians coming down the pipeline, and mass unemployment has been known to give rise to revolutions before.

It may get even bloodier within Russia than in Ukraine, when the body bags of conscripts get there.

 

[jacko45k]

53 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I saw a recent article that said Putin's popularity had gone from about 70% to above 80% with Russians, which demonstrates the power of media when all other voices are stifled or howled down.

A couple of Russians were interviewed on UK's Sky News this morning..... if their attitudes and opinions are dominant in Russia, heaven help us. 

[Saanim]

12 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Who should we believe instead? The media of the Russian Pharaoh? Independent and free? Russia is still the country of GULAG. People are still tortured in the Russian prisons the same way they were tortured in the Stalin's times (just read and watch the recent Russian penitentiary exposures). Nothing really changed. And here you cast doubts on the Western press? Really?

It does not truly matter what the “facts” are, but the question of “whose side are you on?”

 

What makes a “Hero” or a “Villain” will be determined by the simple question “whose side are you on?”

[Bkk Brian]

44 minutes ago, Saanim said:

It does not truly matter what the “facts” are, but the question of “whose side are you on?”

 

What makes a “Hero” or a “Villain” will be determined by the simple question “whose side are you on?”

No facts are what matter, always have been and always will be. The facts we have here are that in the midst of fighting for their country, Ukrainians are suffering the worst possible atrocities imaginable. Civilians, women, children and elderly are being slaughtered by deliberate executions and shelling.

 

The facts are that Putin and the Russian military are carrying out war crimes in his illegal invasion of Ukraine. Nobody on the Ukraine side cares about being a hero, they care about their lives, their homes and their country.

[pavaarty]

14 hours ago, ozimoron said:

well, Ukraine can stop it by ceding it's entire territory to Russia and cease to exist but would also need to forgive the war crimes with no guarantee that its citizens would ever be safe. On the other hand, Russia could simply stop the killing and the attacks. Which do you think should happen?

do you think it's better to save a field than to save millions of lives

[Phoenix Rising]

47 minutes ago, pavaarty said:

do you think it's better to save a field than to save millions of lives

Do you think that a country which is attacked by another country should surrender immediately to save lives?

"Nyet" or "da"?

[pavaarty]

7 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Do you think that a country which is attacked by another country should surrender immediately to save lives?

"Nyet" or "da"?

i didn't talk about surrender, and this language isn't my ''Nyet" or "da" you are wrong mate

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, pavaarty said:

i didn't talk about surrender, and this language isn't my ''Nyet" or "da" you are wrong mate

Well, now that you've told us what you weren't talking about, what were you talking about?

[Gulfsailor]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

The conclusion we can draw is that the Russian army is comprised of utterly inept drunks, led by an evil megalomaniac.

 

 

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

First off, the Russian govt has only acknowledged that 1351 soldiers have died.

According to the the United Nations Commission for Human Right, 1611 civilian deaths have been verified. (Although they say that the total could be much higher.)

Are you saying that the Russian govt. is lying?

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

 

In reality I struggle to believe anything that comes out of a Russian mouth....they seem to think other Nations will believe the most incredulous rubbish. May they rot in hell for their crimes. 

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

The only reports coming out about high Russian casualties are from what you would call the corrupt and dishonest Western media. The Russian media and government have not published any such reports. Which means you must actually believe Western media sources about high Russian casualties.

[Phoenix Rising]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:15 PM, connda said:

 

 no, there are not two or three sides to this story, only one, and that's Putin ordering Russian troops in to Ukraine in order to take over the country and in the process killing tens of thousands of people. That's the only story. Everything else is just false equivalency spread by Putin fanboys...

[Saanim]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

First off, the Russian govt has only acknowledged that 1351 soldiers have died.

According to the the United Nations Commission for Human Right, 1611 civilian deaths have been verified. (Although they say that the total could be much higher.)

Are you saying that the Russian govt. is lying?

 

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

 

In reality I struggle to believe anything that comes out of a Russian mouth....they seem to think other Nations will believe the most incredulous rubbish. May they rot in hell for their crimes. 

 

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

What's truly interesting is how you have betrayed yourself in this comment. The only reports coming out about high Russian casualties are from what you would call the corrupt and dishonest Western media. The Russian media and government have not published any such reports. Which means you must actually believe Western media sources about high Russian casualties.

 

Ukraine War: Kremlin spokesman Peskov admits 'significant' Russian losses

Published 1 day ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61033173

 

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-putins-spokesman-denies-war-crimes-but-admits-significant-russian-losses-12584552

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/07/dmitry-peskov-kremlin-admits-significant-losses-ukraine-tsr-sot-vpx.cnn

 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

Ukraine War: Kremlin spokesman Peskov admits 'significant' Russian losses

Published 1 day ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61033173

 

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-putins-spokesman-denies-war-crimes-but-admits-significant-russian-losses-12584552

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/07/dmitry-peskov-kremlin-admits-significant-losses-ukraine-tsr-sot-vpx.cnn

 

So how do you go from "significant" losses to claim those losses surpassed those of civilians. The UN commission that gave the number of civilian dead also said that it was. almost certainly an undercount.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

Ukraine War: Kremlin spokesman Peskov admits 'significant' Russian losses

Published 1 day ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61033173

 

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-putins-spokesman-denies-war-crimes-but-admits-significant-russian-losses-12584552

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/07/dmitry-peskov-kremlin-admits-significant-losses-ukraine-tsr-sot-vpx.cnn

And what kind of government is it that won't of old the numbers of troops it has lost. Does that mean that the Russian military isn't even keeping count? Does this mean that the number of deaths they have the balls 1351 is not significant?