Local tourists may help Thailand's tourism industry survive

[BigStar]

On 4/30/2022 at 12:00 AM, sambum said:

I would imagine Florida's domesic tourists have a few more coins/bills in their pockets that Thailand's!

And need them to pay the vastly higher expenses to be incurred. Incommensurate economies. Point still holds.

 

To summarize and dispose of the usual straw men by our TAT: TVF, the article does NOT say, or even imply, that domestic tourism 

 

• will “save” Thailand (oh, it’s still doomed, Golden Egg Layers long departed);
• will replace the revenue generated by international tourism;
• must ensure ALL businesses catering to international tourists even survive (and, if not, domestic tourism is therefore of course pointless);
• means that ALL Thais can stay at 5-star hotels;
• always generates at least X amount of revenue irrespective of time and circumstance (the infamous TVF Mausoleum Principle);
• if promoted by the tourist board in Thailand means “desperation” but NOT if by all the tourist boards of other countries and localities (https://www.visitbrighton.com/) .

 

Now the article did dare presume to come out that knickers-twisting “help survive.” But so domestic tourism has in fact, even for some farang-patronized businesses. The tourist industry encompasses a wide spectrum from a noodle cart parked in front of Jomtien Beach up to the Centara Grand Mirage, which looked packed out during Songkran.

 

Really, I just don’t see how the “help” by the domestic tourists much threatens the Ultimate Certain Doom. We can fall back (and have in the thread already) to every rainbow has its rain, every rose its thorns, and our much-beloved one swallow does not make a summer. Inflation, worldwide recession, currency devaluation, consumer debt, nuclear war, insane rises in visa fees (2003, the last nail in the coffin!), and total Thailand economic collapse look just around the corner just as they always have, don’t they? Surely we can all just kick back with a Chang and a condescending lip curl over that innocuous little observation offered up in the OP. Mere blip on the screen, one of many.

 

[Moti24]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:43 AM, jacko45k said:

Why do you say that? Do they not stay in hotels, eat in restaurants, visit theme parks and attractions, go shopping in Malls? I believe they do from what I see. 

Yes, they do all of those things, but they're not injecting money into Thailand like tourists do.  If there are no jobs, soon the locals won't have any money to spend; maybe not even on food.

[garyk]

Thailand is a odd country IMO. The GDP is upwards of 20% tourism based. The powers are clearly biased toward China and Russia. Now that Russia and China are in the dumps they whine about tourism. If GDP is based on tourism it is best to play the middle ground IMO.  But Thailand has picked sides and has to live with it now.  I lived there for years, my GF's family is middle class and far from struggling to survive. But, it has take a hit on them. The money is just not there without tourism. It flows into all areas of life there.

Looking back on it you could not ask for a worst case for Thailand's tourist industry.  

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by garyk

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Moti24 said:

Yes, they do all of those things, but they're not injecting money into Thailand like tourists do.  If there are no jobs, soon the locals won't have any money to spend; maybe not even on food.

Well you presumably mean foreign reserves.... but to all the hotels, restaurant and Mall store owners, baht is baht, and that would not be relevant,  Domestic tourists support jobs too......and judging by the busy roads there is still plenty of business going on.....

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Well you presumably mean foreign reserves.... but to all the hotels, restaurant and Mall store owners, baht is baht, and that would not be relevant,  Domestic tourists support jobs too......and judging by the busy roads there is still plenty of business going on.....

We went out yesterday and took a boat trip around the canals of Bangkok, doing the touristy thing for the GF's daughter as she has never seen the inner areas of BKK.  The longtail boats were busy as can be and instead of driving to where we picked ours up at (Thaksin Bridge) we walked.  The traffic for a Saturday was incredible, and then last night when we returned we used the BTS and MRT.  Those were also packed, and then this morning traffic on the freeway and the surrounding streets is busy.  I know today is Labor Day and tomorrow is the actual day off for it, but with Songkran just 2 weeks ago, where are these people going.  Central world was also packed as they have some kind of Anime style Toy Show and sales going on, but where are these folks coming from.....domestic tourism must be good.

[EVENKEEL]

On 4/28/2022 at 12:21 PM, ThailandRyan said:

They are delusional in my view, not many regular Thais have the kind of coin needed for a stay like this.  

I recently stayed at a 5 star during the week, starting rate was 5800thb/nt and it was packed with Thais mostly, only a few foreigners.

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I recently stayed at a 5 star during the week, starting rate was 5800thb/nt and it was packed with Thais mostly, only a few foreigners.

Of course, but were they your regular Thai everyday household help, restaurant workers, stall owners or were they the Office workers and Government employee's who have disposable income and use the 50/50 program.  We are talking at a max of probably 20% of all Thai society that has disposable income and does not work for what they need on a day to day basis.  I pay my housekeeper 10k a month, and it includes a ensuite room, and I pay for her annual health care through PCH.  She has every Sunday off, and can take the holidays off as well.  With what she makes she sends money back to her parents in Myanmar.  When we take a week holiday, she can either stay in the Condo, or is free to travel herself.  She would rather save the money.  My Thai Housekeeper, I had. was ungrateful, and after 3 months was let go, as she wanted to work only when she pleased and would spend to much time on her telephone.  She also expected to be paid 20k a month as well as having a room and wanted to invite her friends over as well as her boyfriend.....

[EVENKEEL]

33 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Of course, but were they your regular Thai everyday household help, restaurant workers, stall owners or were they the Office workers and Government employee's who have disposable income and use the 50/50 program.  We are talking at a max of probably 20% of all Thai society that has disposable income and does not work for what they need on a day to day basis.  I pay my housekeeper 10k a month, and it includes a ensuite room, and I pay for her annual health care through PCH.  She has every Sunday off, and can take the holidays off as well.  With what she makes she sends money back to her parents in Myanmar.  When we take a week holiday, she can either stay in the Condo, or is free to travel herself.  She would rather save the money.  My Thai Housekeeper, I had. was ungrateful, and after 3 months was let go, as she wanted to work only when she pleased and would spend to much time on her telephone.  She also expected to be paid 20k a month as well as having a room and wanted to invite her friends over as well as her boyfriend.....

It's the same anywhere, in the US I don't pay the big bucks for a 5 star hotel because it would be stupid in my opinion to spend so much. The subject is local tourism, and the 5 star hotel I stayed in was packed with Thais with many over the top cars in parking and a few way, way over the top. It goes without saying these are the upper level of Thais. 

[newnative]

17 hours ago, Moti24 said:

Yes, they do all of those things, but they're not injecting money into Thailand like tourists do.  If there are no jobs, soon the locals won't have any money to spend; maybe not even on food.

     Totally agree with Jacko45k's comment.  Earlier in this thread I posted that in 2019 Florida had 131 million domestic tourists visit and about 11 million foreign tourists.  Obviously, the vast number of tourist jobs in Florida's number 1 industry, tourism, were being supported by domestic, rather than foreign tourists. 

    True, the 131 million domestic tourists were, in most cases, likely not 'injecting money' from abroad into Florida.  But, they were keeping domestic money in circulation, rather than under their mattresses.   And, whether you have a hotel job in Orlando or one in Pattaya, you care not a bit where the tourist staying in the room is from.  You are happy he has come to town to visit and picked your hotel to stay at--keeping you employed.  

      As has been said so often, and so obviously, Thailand's tourism industry, unlike Florida's, can't sustain itself on domestic tourism.  It needs large numbers of foreign tourists to support the greatly expanded, and still expanding, tourist infrastructure.  Pattaya, alone, has three very large new hotels set to open soon--to join the many others large and small that opened in the past 10 years.  But, while we wait for the foreign tourists to return, the domestic tourists have helped quite a lot to keep some tourist businesses open, along with the jobs.  Nice to see a fair amount of people on the beach this cloudy, thundery, morning--and the parking lot looking rather full at Centara Grand yesterday.

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Of course, but were they your regular Thai everyday household help, restaurant workers, stall owners or were they the Office workers and Government employee's who have disposable income and use the 50/50 program.  We are talking at a max of probably 20% of all Thai society that has disposable income and does not work for what they need on a day to day basis. 

Last figure I saw from some years back had 35% of Thais as middle class. No, they aren’t all office workers and gov’t employees. I don’t think you have a clue, really. Why not just argue a point that’s actually in the OP rather than posture?

 

Now that you’ve stopped pretending there’s no Thai middle class who spend during holidays, the next step is to give up the fantasy that the lower classes can only live day to day and don’t spend anything during a holiday, either. It’s all part of the condescending only farang have money narrative of such constant comfort here on the forum.

 

OK, knickers-soiling time for our TAT: TVF. Lower class Thais also have disposable income. They spend it on the relatively inexpensive things they usually spend it on, and a holiday affords them extra opportunity to do so, just as it does for the middle class.

 

Often this is accomplished by pooling the family resources. Saw a number of families doing exactly that today at the beach.

 

For example (one of countless), somebody in the extended family’s got an old truck and the rest pile in the back and they all take a trip to a park, lake, or beach and spread out a mat. Might do some splashing around, fishing or *ha hoi, looking for mussels. Meantime they buy drinks and Sang Som, *som tam, snacks, noodles, maybe some cheap toys at the destination for the kids.

 

Sometimes there’s a richer family member or a village patron to help out. They may stay overnight with relatives near the tourist area, but merely visiting relatives also means spending and revenue generation.

 

Quibbles: Oh, maybe it’s not a truck but an old motorbike to accommodate 5 Thais. Maybe they ride the bus. Maybe they bring in the food and drinks, but they had to have bought them or the ingredients for the trip. Maybe they just walk around in the mall and eat cheap in the food court, or just buy some sugary drinks or snacks.

 

In short, commerce happens because of the holiday.

 

A vast number of small businesses from food carts upward survive by catering to the needs of lower, working class Thais. Lots of these exist in tourist areas, including temples. Vendors near large, well-known, highly regarded wats get PLENTY of extra business during holidays.

 

So, does spending by the lower classes also “help” the Thai tourist sector? Definitely that part catering to the millions of low income Thais. Is that good? Yes. Just gon’ have to suck it up.

 

Seems we just aren't going to be able to find anything in the least unreasonable or misleading in the OP. Our ace Economists’ “debunking” is so far all just blowhard misreading and Whataboutism. The main problem is that we don't like the OP. That idea of "help" is just SO distressing. Why's that?

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by BigStar

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I pay my housekeeper 10k a month, and it includes a ensuite room, and I pay for her annual health care through PCH. 

Irrelevant example of one Burmese maid w/ no family here.

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

We went out yesterday and took a boat trip around the canals of Bangkok.....

Similar scene around Pattaya, the roads were busy, the beach quite popular.... early evening we skipped one restaurant based on the number of parked cars and those trying to park, across the Highway we were accommodated, but luckily I go out to eat early, later they were waiting for tables. There are foreign tourists about, but yesterday, they were nearly all locals...

[Daithi85]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:08 AM, Dart12 said:

quit kicking out people who legaly apply and try to stay here who are spending plenty of cash already.

Kicked out? Who's been kicked out? 

[Moti24]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

     Totally agree with Jacko45k's comment.  Earlier in this thread I posted that in 2019 Florida had 131 million domestic tourists visit and about 11 million foreign tourists.  Obviously, the vast number of tourist jobs in Florida's number 1 industry, tourism, were being supported by domestic, rather than foreign tourists. 

    True, the 131 million domestic tourists were, in most cases, likely not 'injecting money' from abroad into Florida.  But, they were keeping domestic money in circulation, rather than under their mattresses.   And, whether you have a hotel job in Orlando or one in Pattaya, you care not a bit where the tourist staying in the room is from.  You are happy he has come to town to visit and picked your hotel to stay at--keeping you employed.  

      As has been said so often, and so obviously, Thailand's tourism industry, unlike Florida's, can't sustain itself on domestic tourism.  It needs large numbers of foreign tourists to support the greatly expanded, and still expanding, tourist infrastructure.  Pattaya, alone, has three very large new hotels set to open soon--to join the many others large and small that opened in the past 10 years.  But, while we wait for the foreign tourists to return, the domestic tourists have helped quite a lot to keep some tourist businesses open, along with the jobs.  Nice to see a fair amount of people on the beach this cloudy, thundery, morning--and the parking lot looking rather full at Centara Grand yesterday.

You're missing the point, and whatever happens in Florida is irrelevant; TiT!

 

Thai Tourists are not going to solve the problem.  Tourism is Thailand's number 1 cash-cow, so if foreign tourists are taken out of the equation, that leaves the coffers somewhat empty.  Sure, more Thai Tourists are contributing to tourist businesses, but a lot of those Thai Tourists are from the poorer section of the population, and can ill-afford the expenditure, but are attracted by the empty beaches, etc.  

 

The bottom line is that without the billions of Thai Baht coming into Thailand that TAT reminds us of on a daily basis, the money that Thai Tourists are currently contributing is just a drop in the ocean, and will without doubt cause further household debt to those already on the breadline.

[ThailandRyan]

18 hours ago, BigStar said:

Irrelevant example of one Burmese maid w/ no family here.

So she can not be a domestic tourist then in your eyes....hmmmm.  you have definitely decided no one but a Thai and then expats can be domestic tourists.

[newnative]

24 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

You're missing the point, and whatever happens in Florida is irrelevant; TiT!

 

Thai Tourists are not going to solve the problem.  Tourism is Thailand's number 1 cash-cow, so if foreign tourists are taken out of the equation, that leaves the coffers somewhat empty.  Sure, more Thai Tourists are contributing to tourist businesses, but a lot of those Thai Tourists are from the poorer section of the population, and can ill-afford the expenditure, but are attracted by the empty beaches, etc.  

 

The bottom line is that without the billions of Thai Baht coming into Thailand that TAT reminds us of on a daily basis, the money that Thai Tourists are currently contributing is just a drop in the ocean, and will without doubt cause further household debt to those already on the breadline.

     In 2019, Thailand's best year for tourism, the number 1 generator of income for Thailand was exports, not your claim of tourism.  Exports accounted for 60% of the GDP.   Tourism was 21.9%.  Since this is a thread focused on domestic tourism, I thought the Florida stats were both relevant and interesting.  I was quite surprised at the 131 million domestic tourists who visited Florida vs. less than 10 million foreigners.  I would have guessed there would have been a larger number of foreigners.   Out of curiosity I checked on the number of domestic tourists in Thailand in 2019.  Found 167 million 'travelers', although likely some not tourists.  Whatever the exact number of tourists in that figure, in both cases it seems that domestic tourism is more important than perhaps  originally thought--and helps explain how some tourist businesses have managed to remain open here in Thailand. 

    Despite that large number of Thai domestic travelers, I totally agree with your statement that 'Thai tourists are not going to solve the problem'.  And, I never said they would.  Apparently, when reading my post you did not get to the final paragraph:

 

 As has been said so often, and so obviously, Thailand's tourism industry, unlike Florida's, can't sustain itself on domestic tourism.  It needs large numbers of foreign tourists to support the greatly expanded, and still expanding, tourist infrastructure.  Pattaya, alone, has three very large new hotels set to open soon--to join the many others large and small that opened in the past 10 years.  But, while we wait for the foreign tourists to return, the domestic tourists have helped quite a lot to keep some tourist businesses open, along with the jobs.  Nice to see a fair amount of people on the beach this cloudy, thundery, morning--and the parking lot looking rather full at Centara Grand yesterday.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

So she can not be a domestic tourist then in your eyes....hmmmm.  you have definitely decided no one but a Thai and then expats can be domestic tourists.

She could, just as an old Thai granny could don a thong and swim at Jomtien, but she's obviously an outlier, as you should be able to perceive. Note the OP specifically but not exclusively references "families," the prime domestic tourism demographic.

 

"Prime" would include farang w/ families, not mongers or backpackers, though YES they can be domestic tourists also. The OP makes no claim that ALL Thais will become domestic tourists on every holiday, BTW.

 

Study different cultures. The Thai, or Asian, women traveling around alone to tourists areas generally have a business purpose for doing so, as economic beneficiaries of domestic tourism, esp. by single farang men.???? Your maid would tour around if she had a boyfriend to invite her and pay all the expenses. Go find her one and find out. Invite her family over and see what happens. 

 

Should the gov't encourage domestic tourism? Yes, and it has, just as in other countries where we understand such promotion perfectly. It's only Thai domestic tourism we just can't understand. Why's that? Still awaiting the answer.  

 

I'm still not seeing that you have any disagreement with or logical conclusion to make from the OP.

Edited May 2, 2022 by BigStar

[joecoolfrog]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:43 AM, jacko45k said:

Why do you say that? Do they not stay in hotels, eat in restaurants, visit theme parks and attractions, go shopping in Malls? I believe they do from what I see. 

Hence my point that a certain amount of baht is spread around.

Does this equate to international tourism that brings in fresh foreign currency , no !

[Moti24]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

     In 2019, Thailand's best year for tourism, the number 1 generator of income for Thailand was exports, not your claim of tourism.  Exports accounted for 60% of the GDP.   Tourism was 21.9%.  Since this is a thread focused on domestic tourism, I thought the Florida stats were both relevant and interesting.  I was quite surprised at the 131 million domestic tourists who visited Florida vs. less than 10 million foreigners.  I would have guessed there would have been a larger number of foreigners.   Out of curiosity I checked on the number of domestic tourists in Thailand in 2019.  Found 167 million 'travelers', although likely some not tourists.  Whatever the exact number of tourists in that figure, in both cases it seems that domestic tourism is more important than perhaps  originally thought--and helps explain how some tourist businesses have managed to remain open here in Thailand. 

    Despite that large number of Thai domestic travelers, I totally agree with your statement that 'Thai tourists are not going to solve the problem'.  And, I never said they would.  Apparently, when reading my post you did not get to the final paragraph:

 

 As has been said so often, and so obviously, Thailand's tourism industry, unlike Florida's, can't sustain itself on domestic tourism.  It needs large numbers of foreign tourists to support the greatly expanded, and still expanding, tourist infrastructure.  Pattaya, alone, has three very large new hotels set to open soon--to join the many others large and small that opened in the past 10 years.  But, while we wait for the foreign tourists to return, the domestic tourists have helped quite a lot to keep some tourist businesses open, along with the jobs.  Nice to see a fair amount of people on the beach this cloudy, thundery, morning--and the parking lot looking rather full at Centara Grand yesterday.

Oh, I got to the final paragraph, but thanks for reprinting it.

 

As I said, you're missing the point.

 

Have a nice day.

[newnative]

13 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

Oh, I got to the final paragraph, but thanks for reprinting it.

 

As I said, you're missing the point.

 

Have a nice day.

    Curious which point of yours I'm 'missing'.   The first point you made in your post was:  'Tourism is Thailand's number one cash cow...'.   I pointed out that this is incorrect.  Can't see what I'm missing there.  Your other point was:  'Thai tourists are not going to solve the problem.'.   That point I agreed with in my post--having said essentially the same thing in my earlier post.  So, I see a correction and an agreement.  Have a nice day, too.

[sambum]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:28 PM, BigStar said:

And need them to pay the vastly higher expenses to be incurred. Incommensurate economies. Point still holds.

 

To summarize and dispose of the usual straw men by our TAT: TVF, the article does NOT say, or even imply, that domestic tourism 

 

• will “save” Thailand (oh, it’s still doomed, Golden Egg Layers long departed);
• will replace the revenue generated by international tourism;
• must ensure ALL businesses catering to international tourists even survive (and, if not, domestic tourism is therefore of course pointless);
• means that ALL Thais can stay at 5-star hotels;
• always generates at least X amount of revenue irrespective of time and circumstance (the infamous TVF Mausoleum Principle);
• if promoted by the tourist board in Thailand means “desperation” but NOT if by all the tourist boards of other countries and localities (https://www.visitbrighton.com/) .

 

Now the article did dare presume to come out that knickers-twisting “help survive.” But so domestic tourism has in fact, even for some farang-patronized businesses. The tourist industry encompasses a wide spectrum from a noodle cart parked in front of Jomtien Beach up to the Centara Grand Mirage, which looked packed out during Songkran.

 

Really, I just don’t see how the “help” by the domestic tourists much threatens the Ultimate Certain Doom. We can fall back (and have in the thread already) to every rainbow has its rain, every rose its thorns, and our much-beloved one swallow does not make a summer. Inflation, worldwide recession, currency devaluation, consumer debt, nuclear war, insane rises in visa fees (2003, the last nail in the coffin!), and total Thailand economic collapse look just around the corner just as they always have, don’t they? Surely we can all just kick back with a Chang and a condescending lip curl over that innocuous little observation offered up in the OP. Mere blip on the screen, one of many.

 

It does, however say:- 

 

Local tourists may help Thailand's tourism industry survive

 

[BigStar]

18 hours ago, sambum said:

It does, however say:- 

 

Local tourists may help Thailand's tourism industry survive

 

What's not clear to you in my statement of exactly that?

 

On 4/30/2022 at 3:28 PM, BigStar said:

Now the article did dare presume to come out that knickers-twisting “help survive.”

Which in fact it has been doing from the first lockdown and continues doing today. And not only in Thailand, as the article notes. It also mentions the hope for the return of international tourism.

 

Problem?