Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So states changing  voting rules leading up to the 2020 election was fine, but states changing voting rules after the 2020 election shows an "...abundance of contempt for democratic norms." Got it. 

 

Well established how, and by whom?

Voting rule changes in the 2020 election were agreed upon by Republicans and Democrats to accommodate health and safety concerns related to a very real pandemic.  The election was judged by officials all over the country, notably Trump's Homeland Security Chief, as being the most secure in history.

 

Voting restrictions being put in place now are claimed to be necessary to prevent non-existent fraud.

 

There's a clear difference, but I'm sure you'll refuse to see it.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, g man said:

 

I find it fascinating how people pick on FOX News despite it's top leading ratings, especially Tucker, who easily blows away the competition.

 

Who is the Most Watched Host in All of Cable News For Young Democrats?

Its Tucker! And most people here despise him and FOX news.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/who-is-the-most-watched-host-in-all-of-cable-news-for-young-democrats-tucker-carlson/

https://time.com/6080432/tucker-carlson-profile/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2020/06/30/tucker-carlson-has-highest-rated-program-in-cable-news-history/

 

Do you understand the difference between a news program and a pundit's entertainment show?

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, g man said:

And rest assured there won't be any in the great state of Florida. Proactive beats reactive.

The trivial amount of voter fraud found in Florida's 2020 election was in the single digits, and mostly involved Republicans voting twice. 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-residents-the-villages-arrrested-voter-fraud

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fourth-florida-the-villages-resident-accused-of-voter-fraud

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, g man said:

Voting Fraud Is a Real Concern. Just Look Around the World | Opinion

 

https://www.newsweek.com/voting-fraud-real-concern-just-look-around-world-opinion-1522535

Nothing in your source about voter fraud in the US.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, g man said:

Yes, with efforts like DeSantis, there will be less chance for voter fraud. The blue states can try to keep theirs but FL is a top trending state doing things properly and thus their immense success's and now the guv's likely ascension to the WH some day soon.

Oh yes, thank God that DeSantis is dealing with non-existent voter fraud instead of the very real pollution of Florida's beaches, coastal flooding, sky-rocketing insurance rates...

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, g man said:

where's the proof? I , you, we, they, anyone can say ANYTHING about ANYBODY under oath in a kangaroo court and NOW you have reality. LoL. OK. Try that nonsense in the court room setting and watch a 1st year law student eviscerate you.

Once again, Trump's actions on January 6 prove him to be either a criminal or a fool.  Either way he's unfit for office.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, g man said:

Okay, maybe for someone, just tell me who and what the likely crimes will be. Be sure to inform AG Garland too, he may want to know.

 I got to go.

 

This is too easy now.

So you maintain Trump didn't knowingly provoke a violent attack on the Capitol, he's just an idiot who didn't know what he was doing?

 

This is too easy now.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Once again, Trump's actions on January 6 prove him to be either a criminal or a fool.  Either way he's unfit for office.

Both

[Berkshire]

8 hours ago, g man said:

I assure you there is nothing lame about MAGA, it's an American staple now and loved same as apple pie and cheese. Just compare popularity polls of Trump and compare to Biden. See for yourself.

55555....yeah right.  MAGA is a cult.  It's almost synonymous with QAnon, another cult full of nutters.

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, g man said:

where's the proof? I , you, we, they, anyone can say ANYTHING about ANYBODY under oath in a kangaroo court and NOW you have reality. LoL. OK. Try that nonsense in the court room setting and watch a 1st year law student eviscerate you.

Where's the proof? Andrew McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor and someone who vehemently opposed Trump's impeachment trials, and supported John Durham's investigations, thinks there's proof. Now, he still thinks prosecuting Trump could do more harm than good, but that's a political calculation, and not one based on the evidence:

Prosecuting Trump could do more harm than good

"Before Hutchinson’s testimony, there was a dearth of public evidence that Trump was actively complicit in the violence on Jan. 6, 2021, as opposed to being recklessly indifferent to the potential for it. But according to Hutchinson, Trump was fully aware that the Jan. 6 mob was well armed yet willfully encouraged it to march on the Capitol.

This portrayal casts a more damning light on the former president’s profound dereliction of duty and, as I see it, may change the calculus Attorney General Merrick Garland will need to make."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/01/hutchinson-testimony-changes-calculus-on-indicting-trump/

 

And, of course, once the insurrectionists had invaded the Capitol, he did not call in the National Guard or other agencies to put a stop to it. Even though, according to Hutchinson's testimony, he was told these people were armed.

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by placeholder

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Where's the proof. Andrew McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor and someone who vehemently opposed Trump's impeachment trials, and supported John Durhams investigations, thinks there's proof. Now, he still thinks prosecuting Trump could do more harm than good, but that's a political calculation, and not one based on the evidence:

Prosecuting Trump could do more harm than good

"Before Hutchinson’s testimony, there was a dearth of public evidence that Trump was actively complicit in the violence on Jan. 6, 2021, as opposed to being recklessly indifferent to the potential for it. But according to Hutchinson, Trump was fully aware that the Jan. 6 mob was well armed yet willfully encouraged it to march on the Capitol.

This portrayal casts a more damning light on the former president’s profound dereliction of duty and, as I see it, may change the calculus Attorney General Merrick Garland will need to make."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/01/hutchinson-testimony-changes-calculus-on-indicting-trump/

 

And, of course, once the insurrectionists had invaded the Capitol, he did not call in the National Guard or other agencies to put a stop to it. Even though, according to Hutchinson's testimony, he was told these people were armed.

 

"And, of course, once the insurrectionists had invaded the Capitol, he did not call in the National Guard or other agencies to put a stop to it. Even though, according to Hutchinson's testimony, he was told these people were armed. "

 

That is a very, very important point.  The Commander in Chief of the United States, when presented with an active insurrection that had invaded the Capitol, did nothing. 

 

He was impeached but not convicted.  How could any responsible, patriotic Senator not vote for impeachment with that evidence?  History will not be kind to those Republican Senators.

Edited July 3, 2022 by heybruce

[pomchop]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:51 AM, g man said:

 

I find it fascinating how people pick on FOX News despite it's top leading ratings, especially Tucker, who easily blows away the competition.

 

Who is the Most Watched Host in All of Cable News For Young Democrats?

Its Tucker! And most people here despise him and FOX news.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/who-is-the-most-watched-host-in-all-of-cable-news-for-young-democrats-tucker-carlson/

https://time.com/6080432/tucker-carlson-profile/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2020/06/30/tucker-carlson-has-highest-rated-program-in-cable-news-history/

 

even his own lawyers say he is full of BS....fox viewers are obviously easily duped

 

arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

 

She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes."

[Phoenix Rising]

13 hours ago, g man said:

They're building a very strong case on this idea of corruptly impeding Congress from doing its job. And based on what I heard today, leaving incitement aside, you know, it's a federal crime to intimidate or assault members of Congress. And I continue to think the important testimony that came out today was just how much information President Trump had about how armed to the teeth this crowd was and his reaction that, well, what's the problem with that? They're not coming for me. I'm not the one who's threatened by all this. And then he encourages them. He not only encourages them to go to the Capitol, he wants to lead them. I kept thinking the thought of him leading a mob down to the Capitol. What would the Capitol Police have done if the president of the United States was leading the mob? How could they conceivably have contained that?

 

So many hypotheticals cited by Andy M and none of the above is even close to being corroborated. How about insurrection, has that topic faded off into the abyss? 

 

McCarthy does say this: "federal crime to intimidate or assault members of Congress."

He's probably made an accurate statement, assault is illegal, that's just brilliant. I direct your attention back to the illegal protests at SCOTUS justice homes after the roe v wade leak and prior to the ruling announcement, totally illegal under Title 18, Section 1507 of the U.S. Code but Garland slept right through it. You figure this out and when you do just holler at me at which time I will explain how and why the shouting and hollering about "insurrection" is gone silent now. Feel free to chime in with your insurrection analysis.

 

QED on the lame diversions.

[Yellowtail]

18 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The only major voter fraud we saw in the last election was GOP perpetrated fraud in Florida, his state.

So there was fraud...

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So there was fraud...

A trivial amount of voter fraud.  The major fraud was a Republican tool who swung a tight election by arranging a "ghost candidate".  https://floridapolitics.com/archives/527424-seminole-county-republican-chair-two-others-indicted-in-ghost-candidate-case/

 

None of DeSantis's election laws would do anything to prevent the kind of fraud identified.  His laws target non-existent fraud.

[placeholder]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:04 PM, g man said:

They're building a very strong case on this idea of corruptly impeding Congress from doing its job. And based on what I heard today, leaving incitement aside, you know, it's a federal crime to intimidate or assault members of Congress. And I continue to think the important testimony that came out today was just how much information President Trump had about how armed to the teeth this crowd was and his reaction that, well, what's the problem with that? They're not coming for me. I'm not the one who's threatened by all this. And then he encourages them. He not only encourages them to go to the Capitol, he wants to lead them. I kept thinking the thought of him leading a mob down to the Capitol. What would the Capitol Police have done if the president of the United States was leading the mob? How could they conceivably have contained that?

 

So many hypotheticals cited by Andy M and none of the above is even close to being corroborated. How about insurrection, has that topic faded off into the abyss? 

 

McCarthy does say this: "federal crime to intimidate or assault members of Congress."

He's probably made an accurate statement, assault is illegal, that's just brilliant. I direct your attention back to the illegal protests at SCOTUS justice homes after the roe v wade leak and prior to the ruling announcement, totally illegal under Title 18, Section 1507 of the U.S. Code but Garland slept right through it. You figure this out and when you do just holler at me at which time I will explain how and why the shouting and hollering about "insurrection" is gone silent now. Feel free to chime in with your insurrection analysis.

 

McCarthy also noted it's a crime "to corruptly impede Contress from doing its job." So no need to consider the question of assault on Congress members.

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

The major fraud was a Republican tool who swung a tight election by arranging a "ghost candidate".

Ah, such lovely descriptive prose which could be applied to many others of Republican persuasion!

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Ah, such lovely descriptive prose which could be applied to many others of Republican persuasion!

Ah yes, name-calling, the left's favorite argument. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Ah yes, name-calling, the left's favorite argument. 

Only the left is it?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Ah yes, name-calling, the left's favorite argument. 

Is there a polite name for someone who illegally swings an election by arranging for a ghost-candidate to appear on the ballet?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, heybruce said:

Is there a polite name for someone who illegally swings an election by arranging for a ghost-candidate to appear on the ballet?

Criminal? 

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Criminal? 

Ok.  Here's my original post, now cleaned up for you:

 

A trivial amount of voter fraud.  The major fraud was a Republican tool criminal who swung a tight election by arranging a "ghost candidate".  https://floridapolitics.com/archives/527424-seminole-county-republican-chair-two-others-indicted-in-ghost-candidate-case/

 

None of DeSantis's election laws would do anything to prevent the kind of fraud identified.  His laws target non-existent fraud.

 

Happy?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Ok.  Here's my original post, now cleaned up for you:

 

A trivial amount of voter fraud.  The major fraud was a Republican tool criminal who swung a tight election by arranging a "ghost candidate".  https://floridapolitics.com/archives/527424-seminole-county-republican-chair-two-others-indicted-in-ghost-candidate-case/

 

None of DeSantis's election laws would do anything to prevent the kind of fraud identified.  His laws target non-existent fraud.

 

Happy?

Never been happier brother, you? 

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Never been happier brother, you? 

I'm delighted.  You gave me the opportunity to twice point out that the election laws that DeSantis has pushed through will not prevent the types of fraud in the last election, and that the fraud that has been identified was primarily committed by Republicans.

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Never been happier brother, you? 

BTW, I can also explain DeSantis's hypocrisy regarding illegal immigration--lots of "Keep them out!" talk while maintaining loopholes that allow small businesses and farmers in Florida to drive busloads of immigrants through.  Interested?

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

BTW, I can also explain DeSantis's hypocrisy regarding illegal immigration--lots of "Keep them out!" talk while maintaining loopholes that allow small businesses and farmers in Florida to drive busloads of immigrants through.  Interested?

Sure, explain away. 

[Scott]

Let's stick to the Jan 6 committee probe for the time being in this thread.   I think immigration might be a little to far off topic.  

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 7/4/2022 at 8:51 AM, Yellowtail said:

Criminal? 

If non of the events being investigated and exposed by the Jan 6 Hearings are criminal, then Trump and the rightwing supporters of those events have nothing to worry about.

 

Likewise those eager to downplay the events of Jan 6 need only sit back and wait for the investigation to ‘fizzle out’.

 

They can all relax and be as chilled as they tell us they are.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If non of the events being investigated and exposed by the Jan 6 Hearings are criminal, then Trump and the rightwing supporters of those events have nothing to worry about.

 

Likewise those eager to downplay the events of Jan 6 need only sit back and wait for the investigation to ‘fizzle out’.

 

They can all relax and be as chilled as they tell us they are.

Trump is so not chilled about this!

He's crapping his panties bigly on his ironically named Truth Social.