Interest withholding tax

[walailak]

On 7/5/2022 at 7:00 PM, DrJoy said:

Anyone who opened their account with their Pink ID?

Is Witholding tax deducted from your accounts as well?

 

any input will be appreciated 

Yes all of my 3 accounts with krungsri ktb and now scb were opened using my pink id card. 

Krungsri no tax withheld 

KTB no tax withheld 

SCB EZ Savings just opened it end of June 2022,so I will need to wait until December 25th to see if they do deduct. 

 

Only once during the pandemic, June 2020, krungsri deducted tax apparently my old tax id was 10"digit and invalid thus I had to make a trip to revenue department to get a new one, 13 digit and then I informed the bank. 

 

To summarise,

KTB using my pink id tax number 

 

SCB same

 

Krungsri using my tax id that is linked to my passport number from (2008)

 

When I visited the revenue department that June 2020, I was told that I got 2 different tax id numbers, one from the passport and one from the pink id ????????and eventually they need to be merged, but they said do it whenever you need to come back to us to claim anything. 

 

So far I didn't have to so I guess I will leave it as it is. 

This is Thailand ,

this will never happen in Australia ????????

 

 

[DrJoy]

This is the order from The R.D.

 

According to the Director-General notification regarding income tax (No.346) Subject : Determination of rules, procedures and conditions for tax exemption from personal income tax on interest income received from saving deposit accounts which shall be effective from 4 April 2019 onward provides conditions as follows:

1. The total amount of interest income incurred from all saving deposit accounts with all banks received by depositor must not exceed 20,000 baht throughout the tax year.
2. The deposit account name and the tax identification number used to open a saving deposit account must belong to those who are responsible for personal income tax (the depositors must provide tax identification number to the Bank).
3. The depositor must allow the Bank to submit any information regarding the interest income incurred from saving deposit account to the Revenue Department.
4. If the depositors do not want the Bank to submit such information to the Revenue Department, the depositor must inform the Bank in the form as prescribed by the Bank and the Bank shall deduct withholding tax at the rate of 15% on the interest income received from all saving deposit accounts paid by the Bank even if the total interest income earned does not exceed 20,000 baht throughout the tax year.

[DrJoy]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:05 PM, livram said:

July 2021 I went to Krungsri  Bank Korat and presented my tax ID number and they stopped WH tax. All was good until June 2022 when they started WH tax again.  I know the 20,000 baht rule but it does not apply to me. Last week I went to Mall branch to get Bank letter for retirement visa and had to sign my name over 20 times, never had to do that before.

Did you ask them, why suddenly the tax is being deducted?

[DrJoy]

16 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

It's discrimination based on possession of an ID number that the Thai Revenue Dept. can use to identify and tax the income recipient.  Thai citizens use their Thai ID #, foreigners can use their pink ID card number or a Tax ID issued by the Revenue Dept.

 

The two other countries that I've lived in before have similar withholding policies based on much the same qualifications.  In the US if you don't have a Social Security Number (SSN) or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) people who pay you money (W-2, W-2G, 1099-Misc, etc) are supposed to withhold a percentage and remit to the US gov't.

 

You're still subject to withholding because the bank employees are lazy or untrained or overly concerned about seeming incompetent.... or perhaps all of the above.

Many members here have reported that WHT being deducted suddenly after many years, without reaching the 20k limit.

 

See @WorriedNoodle post 
 

I strongly suspect @skatewash educated guess.

Edited July 18, 2022 by DrJoy

[peterfranks]

23 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Many members here have reported that WHT being deducted suddenly after many years, without reaching the 20k limit.

 

See @WorriedNoodle post 
 

I strongly suspect @skatewash educated guess.

What was Skatewash educated guess?

 

I was one of those who suddenly had WHT deducted from my Krungsri account, and all I get from the banks are excuses that have no base

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, peterfranks said:

What was Skatewash educated guess?

 

I was one of those who suddenly had WHT deducted from my Krungsri account, and all I get from the banks are excuses that have no base

My only guess is a rumor I passed on about why tax withholding might not work with SCB.  The rumor I had heard concerns SCB not being able to enter the Thai Tax ID number for a foreign account holder (at least one opened with a passport number) because there isn't a field for it to be entered in.  Or rather, whatever field it is entered in not the right field to have tax withholding waived.

This is consistent with my experience where I have successfully added my Thai Tax ID number to Bangkok Bank and Krungsr Bank savings accounts and as of June 2022 interest is being earned on those accounts without tax being withheld.  I used my Thai Tax ID to open an SCB EZ-Savings Account along with my passport.   I noticed that as of June 2022 interest was earned and paid but tax was withheld.  This wasn't because they don't know that I had a Thai Tax ID card because I gave them that card during account opening.  My guess concerns whether they were simply not able to enter the Tax ID number for my account.  Or that they even entered the Thai Tax ID for my SCB account but somehow it is not in the field which is looked at to determine whether tax withholding on interest earned takes place.  

Does anyone have an SCB account (specifically a EZ-Savings Account) which they opened using their passport and Thai Tax ID, for which they are getting tax withheld waived?

I can imagine a circumstance where a foreign customer uses their pink ID card number, or yellow house book registration number (rather than their passport number) to open an account and it happens to be the case that their ID number is the same as (or matches) their Thai Tax ID number.  In this particular case it may be similar to a Thai person wherein I believe their Thai Tax ID number is the same as their Thai ID number.  In this case, perhaps tax withholding would be waived on the account (because effectively the Thai Tax ID is entered in the proper field).  Whereas for myself and other foreigners who opened the account with our passport numbers instead of our Thai Tax ID number being in the "correct" field, that field is instead filled with our passport number.  SCB may in fact actually enter our Thai Tax ID number in the account data but if it is not in the "correct" field then tax withholding is not waived.  This would explain why it is an issue with some foreigners but not for (apparently) any Thai people.

Of course, the above is only speculation based on rumor, except for the fact that I can say in my experience Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank waive interest withholding for my accounts, but SCB doesn't.

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

Does anyone have an SCB account (specifically a EZ-Savings Account) which they opened using their passport and Thai Tax ID, for which they are getting tax withheld waived?

On July 4th, I posted the following in this thread:

 

On my first visit they were having trouble opening the EZ account.  I asked them if it would work better if I had a Thai tax ID and they said yes.  A couple of days later I got my tax ID and went back to that branch and got the EZ account opened.  I have never had tax deducted from the interest paid on that account.  I also successfully stopped the withholding tax at Kasikorn bank and Bangkok bank.  However, I was unable to stop withholding from my fixed deposit account at Bangkok bank.

 

I used only my Canadian passport, an expired Residence Certificate from CM Imm. on my first visit to the SCB branch.  They successfully opened a regular savings account on that 1st visit which I didn't ever ask for.

 

On the second visit (Aug 18'21) I added in my new Tax ID card and they opened the EZ Savings account.

[peterfranks]

All my SCB accounts have been opened with pink ID card, but in different branches

 

I have an EZ- savings, a Jad Tem and a normal savings account.

 

For 2021 no WHT was deducted for the Jad Tem, but was deducted for the EZ savings.

 

I opened all the accounts only a few months earlier, so the 20.000 baht on all accounts together was not reached in 2021.

 

I then went back to that branch and after 3 hours discussing with everyone from the manager to the cleaning lady and the online support, and signing multiple documents, I was assured it would not be deducted any more.

 

In June WHT tax was deducted from the EZ- savings AND the Jad Tem accounts.

 

With Krungsri my account was opened with Passport, and no deduction for 2 years, until June this year, when it was deducted, on both my Mee tai dai (sic) and normal savings account.

 

Tax ID has no relation to the pink ID card number.

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

All my SCB accounts have been opened with pink ID card, but in different branches

 

I have an EZ- savings, a Jad Tem and a normal savings account.

 

For 2021 no WHT was deducted for the Jad Tem, but was deducted for the EZ savings.

 

I opened all the accounts only a few months earlier, so the 20.000 baht on all accounts together was not reached in 2021.

 

I then went back to that branch and after 3 hours discussing with everyone from the manager to the cleaning lady and the online support, and signing multiple documents, I was assured it would not be deducted any more.

 

In June WHT tax was deducted from the EZ- savings AND the Jad Tem accounts.

 

With Krungsri my account was opened with Passport, and no deduction for 2 years, until June this year, when it was deducted, on both my Mee tai dai (sic) and normal savings account.

 

Tax ID has no relation to the pink ID card number.

Sounds like I should attempt to fix my SCB account to get tax withholding waived (I'm below the 20,000 baht threshold of earned interest in the aggregate as well as all individual accounts).  It's not a big deal but if I get it fixed at SCB then I won't have to file a Thai Income Tax Return (PND-90).  Not having to file that is worth it.

I think part of the problem is that they were just trying to get my SCB EZ-Savings Account opened at the time.  It wasn't easy, took over an hour.  Most of it having to do with IRS regulations as I'm American.  I didn't try to push the withholding tax issue.  Maybe when I go back and only address that single issue I will be more successful.

[gamb00ler]

16 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Tax ID has no relation to the pink ID card number.

Other posters have reported that if you get the pink ID card before you get a Tax ID, your pink card # becomes your Tax ID.  If you get the Tax ID before your pink ID card, then your Tax ID is the one you get from the Revenue Dept and in this case your pink ID # is not used for tax filing.

Edited July 18, 2022 by gamb00ler

[peterfranks]

1 minute ago, gamb00ler said:

Other posters have reported that if you get the pink ID card before you get a Tax ID, your pink card # becomes your Tax ID.  If you get the Tax ID before your pink ID card, then your Tax ID is the one you get from the Revenue Dept.

I have my pink ID at least 5 years., My tax ID since 2019

[gamb00ler]

1 minute ago, peterfranks said:

I have my pink ID at least 5 years., My tax ID since 2019

Perhaps that is the cause of your problem with the withholding of tax from interest.  What number is on your tax forms?  Is it the pink card # or the Tax ID #?

[peterfranks]

3 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Maybe when I go back and only address that single issue I will be more successful.

I went back to the branch in January to address only that issue, and spent about 3 hours there.

 

I went back in June for the same issue, and spent another 3 hours.

 

The next day I received a conference call (online support, the branch and another department that handles the WHT) which lasted 47 minutes, and still was negative

[peterfranks]

1 minute ago, gamb00ler said:

Perhaps that is the cause of your problem with the withholding of tax from interest.  What number is on your tax forms?  Is it the pink card # or the Tax ID #?

On my tax forms, including the those from SCB, my tax ID is printed (not added by hand), which means it is in the system.

 

How you explain that no WHT tax was deducted for my SCB jad Tem account for 2021, and my Krugsri accounts for 2020 - 2021 and the first 5 months of 2022, but suddenly for June 2022?

[skatewash]

2 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Other posters have reported that if you get the pink ID card before you get a Tax ID, your pink card # becomes your Tax ID.  If you get the Tax ID before your pink ID card, then your Tax ID is the one you get from the Revenue Dept.

That is my experience.

Actually it's a slightly more involved story...

I obtained my yellow book and its associated Thai ID 13-digit number years ago from my local tessaban.  I asked  about getting my pink ID card but was told no.  Only years later did I realize that I needed to obtain my pink ID at another office, the amphur office, not the tessaban.  I went to obtain my Thai Tax ID with only my yellow house registration book, but for whatever reason I was given a Thai Tax ID number that did not match my existing Thai ID number (from the yellow book).

Years later I got my pink ID card based on my yellow book.  That ID number matches my yellow house registration book but not the Thai Tax ID.

 

So I agree it's a timing issue (which one you get first: ID number or Thai Tax ID number).  But I think it's also possible that even if you give the revenue department an existing ID number they may on occasion just put you in for a new Thai Tax ID number even when they could theoretically just use your existing ID number from yellow book or pink ID card.  Also possible is just a mistake or oversight.  It doesn't seem to cause any problems however at least with the Revenue Department.

[peterfranks]

The main issue is that NOBODY in Thailand know their job, and make up their own rules on the spot.

 

I have been to the revenue office, and the manager called the SCB branch twice, to explain that it could be done automatically.

 

The excuses SCB brings up are just ridiculous.

 

• You opened your account with your passport. No I didn't I used my pink ID in all 3 branches.

 

• You have accounts with other banks, and so we can not. You have no knowledge of accounts with other banks.

 

• You have reached the threshold already. No I haven't and that is also the job from the revenue department at the end of the year, not your job, as you aren't even aware of my other accounts, because banks don't share that information.

 

• There have been maybe 10 more lame (face saving) excuses for their incompetence, which I don't all remember.

[peterfranks]

5 minutes ago, skatewash said:

That is my experience.

Actually it's a slightly more involved story...

I obtained my yellow book and its associated Thai ID 13-digit number years ago from my local tessaban.  I asked  about getting my pink ID card but was told no.  Only years later did I realize that I needed to obtain my pink ID at another office, the amphur office, not the tessaban.  I went to obtain my Thai Tax ID with only my yellow house registration book, but for whatever reason I was given a Thai Tax ID number that did not match my existing Thai ID number (from the yellow book).

Years later I got my pink ID card based on my yellow book.  That ID number matches my yellow house registration book but not the Thai Tax ID.

 

So I agree it's a timing issue (which one you get first: ID number or Thai Tax ID number).  But I think it's also possible that even if you give the revenue department an existing ID number they may on occasion just put you in for a new Thai Tax ID number even when they could theoretically just use your existing ID number from yellow book or pink ID card.  Also possible is just a mistake or oversight.  It doesn't seem to cause any problems however at least with the Revenue Department.

Yellow book and pink ID get issued by Amphur only. So if you got the yellow book from your Tessabaan, that mean they did you a favour, and they got it from the Amphur for you.

 

The 13 digit number at the top of the pink ID correspondents with a number in your yellow book, but I think your Thai ID number is 11 digit and is printed under your picture on the pink ID.

 

 

[skatewash]

4 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

The main issue is that NOBODY in Thailand know their job, and make up their own rules on the spot.

 

I have been to the revenue office, and the manager called the SCB branch twice, to explain that it could be done automatically.

 

The excuses SCB brings up are just ridiculous.

 

• You opened your account with your passport. No I didn't I used my pink ID in all 3 branches.

 

• You have accounts with other banks, and so we can not. You have no knowledge of accounts with other banks.

 

• You have reached the threshold already. No I haven't and that is also the job from the revenue department at the end of the year, not your job, as you aren't even aware of my other accounts, because banks don't share that information.

 

• There have been maybe 10 more lame (face saving) excuses for their incompetence, which I don't all remember.

Yes, and you only find out if you've been successful up to six months later (if it's an account that only pays interest semiannually),  One nice thing about the Krungsri Bank Mee Tae Dai account is that interest is paid monthly.

I will give it a try with SCB this week, trying to pick a time when the bank will not be busy (maybe mid-afternoon).  If all else fails I'll just go ahead and file my Thai Income Tax Return.  The process of doing that is pretty easy after the first time you do it.  I do it online.  They now mail you a check like they used to do for the refund instead of having to deal with Krung Thai bank.  But it's worth the effort to avoid it if possible.

[peterfranks]

22 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Perhaps that is the cause of your problem with the withholding of tax from interest.  What number is on your tax forms?  Is it the pink card # or the Tax ID #?

Tax ID and pink card have nothing to do with each other.

 

Tax ID's exist for decades already, and start with 99.

 

I had my pink ID many years before I got a tax ID, and Krungsri could not use that for the WHT, so I had to apply for a tax ID specifically for Krungsri.

 

All went well for 2 years with Krungsri, until last month

[walailak]

9 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

The 13 digit number at the top of the pink ID correspondents with a number in your yellow book, but I think your Thai ID number is 11 digit and is printed under your picture on the pink ID.

No... the 11 digit number under the picture is the first 4 digit is the amphur number following by the 7 digit number of issued pink ids.... 

In my case the number is 0000013.

Basically I was the 13th person issued with one in my amphur ????

[skatewash]

6 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Yellow book and pink ID get issued by Amphur only. So if you got the yellow book from your Tessabaan, that mean they did you a favour, and they got it from the Amphur for you.

 

The 13 digit number at the top of the pink ID correspondents with a number in your yellow book, but I think your Thai ID number is 11 digit and is printed under your picture on the pink ID.

 

 

It's possible my tessaban was doing me a favor.  Actually the process of getting the yellow book was pretty straightforward (no translations necessary) with the two Thai witnesses being the major hurdle.  It sure seemed like it was produced in the tessaban but it could indeed have originated from the amphur.  My understanding is that they both are issued by the amphur.

I'm pretty sure the Thai ID equivalent given to foreigners is the 13-digit number at the top of the card which as you say does match the yellow book ID number.  I understand the actual Thai ID numbers are also 13-digit number (but theirs don't begin with a 6).  

I never noticed the number under the picture on the pink ID card.  I don't have any idea what that is.  Puzzling.

[peterfranks]

8 minutes ago, skatewash said:

If all else fails I'll just go ahead and file my Thai Income Tax Return.  The process of doing that is pretty easy after the first time you do it. 

Don't bet on that.

 

I filed my first tax return in 2021 for the year 2020, and got the refund within a month.

 

I filed my second return in March 2022, again in the same revenue office, and it was quickly handled.

 

In May I still hadn't received a cheque, so I went back to the revenue office. They called Jomtien and gave me a printed document in Thai, which said in progress.

 

End of June I received a text message from Jomtien, which said that due date for filing tax return was near.

 

So I called them and said I had filed in March. Their answer was they had not received anything.

[walailak]

6 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

had my pink ID many years before I got a tax ID, and Krungsri could not use that for the WHT, so I had to apply for a tax ID specifically for Krungsri.

As previously I mentioned all of my 3 bank accounts with krungsri ktb and scb were opened using the pink id. 

 

Same as you, krungsri asked for thr tax id that I had linked to my passport issued way back in 2008. 

KTB never asked so I assumed they used the tax id link to the pink id which is the same number. 

SCB same as KTB,

but I won't know until December 25 this year is any tax will be withheld 

Amazing Thailand ????????????

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Don't bet on that.

 

I filed my first tax return in 2021 for the year 2020, and got the refund within a month.

 

I filed my second return in March 2022, again in the same revenue office, and it was quickly handled.

 

In May I still hadn't received a cheque, so I went back to the revenue office. They called Jomtien and gave me a printed document in Thai, which said in progress.

 

End of June I received a text message from Jomtien, which said that due date for filing tax return was near.

 

So I called them and said I had filed in March. Their answer was they had not received anything.

I filed this year early in January.  Got my refund check in maybe 3-4 weeks.  The year before it took much longer, ,maybe as long as 6 weeks.  Maybe that was covid related delay.  I needed to file the past couple years because I had interest from a fixed deposit account.

 

[DrJoy]

18 hours ago, peterfranks said:

Tax ID has no relation to the pink ID card number

Peter its like this -

 

When I started working , I already had PINK id and yellow book.

Went to R.D. , showed by Pink card and got same number registered as TIN.

 

I do not have a separate TIN, my TIN starts with 6XXXX

Whereas, people with no pink card get TIN which starts with 0XXXX

 

Both are 13 digits

 

You may open an account with Yellow Book & Pink Card, not a problem.

[DrJoy]

17 hours ago, peterfranks said:

 

 

I had my pink ID many years before I got a tax ID, and Krungsri could not use that for the WHT, so I had to apply for a tax ID specifically for Krungsri.

 

 

Wrong info given by the branch, I have only Pink card and that's my TIN too.

[walailak]

Quick update 

I went to my local scb branch here in Bkk and double check with threm that my account opened only with my pink id has the same number as the tax id. They could not show me on the screen where the tax id field is and what's written on it. 

They promised though that no tax will be withheld as long as I don't go over the first 20,000thb tax free threshold. 

 

I thank them for their time and said hopefully won't see you on December 25th(interest Payday) 

Let's see 

[skatewash]

SCB update:

Visited my local SCB branch following up on having had tax withheld on interest earned in my EZ Savings account which was opened with my Thai Tax ID.

In an effort to be understood clearly I google translated into Thai three statements:

1.  Can I stop tax withholding on interest earned on my savings account?

2.  I have a That Tax ID number.

3.  My interest earned during the year is and will be below 20,000 baht.

 

I brought along a printout of my account showing the interest paid in June 2022 and the tax withheld.

I am confident that they understood what I wanted to do, "stop having tax withheld on interest earned."  Unfortunately, the answer from three bank tellers was no, cannot be done.

One of them asked me if any bank did this for me and as I happened to have my Krungsri Bank passbook I showed them the latest June interest payment and there was no tax withheld on that.   I could have also shown them the same thing with my Bangkok Bank passbook, but I didn't it with me.

They mentioned something about the 20,000 baht limit but I didn't follow what they were trying to tell me other than they quite clearly said that SCB could not stop the tax withholding for me.  As it was close to closing time I thanked them for their help and will let the matter drop.

Luckily, there is an alternative to reclaim the interest withheld, namely filing a Thai Income Tax Return.  I've had success with that in the past, but if I could have gotten SCB to stop the tax withholding I could have avoided doing a return entirely.

In any case, I'm satisfied that they understood what I was trying to do.  That's something.  ????

I can only speculate why they said it cannot be done.  Maybe they misunderstood the guidance from the Thai Revenue Department, maybe they don't know how to do it in the SCB computer system, maybe it can't be done in the SCB computer systems.  I don't know.  But as I have an alternative I will take no for an answer and use the alternative.

[topt]

20 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I can only speculate why they said it cannot be done.

Perhaps the system hasn't been set up for the EZ savings type as is the case for Fixed Deposit accounts across most if not all Thai banks?

I know I have it set up for my SCB savings accounts and I believe also for my Jad Tem account with them.

[skatewash]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

Perhaps the system hasn't been set up for the EZ savings type as is the case for Fixed Deposit accounts across most if not all Thai banks?

I know I have it set up for my SCB savings accounts and I believe also for my Jad Tem account with them.

That might be true for the EZ Savings account.  It's a different beast, no passbook.  Good interest rate though 0.9% APR.

Fixed deposit accounts were never covered by the tax withholding waiver is my understanding.

I was hoping that since Krungsri Bank's Mee Tae Dai savings account was considered a regular savings account that the SCB EZ Savings would be as well.  It might not be.  I use the Krungsri Bank account for my retirement extension 800k baht.