Claiming UK State Pension

[transam]

7 minutes ago, samtam said:

That may well be the case. It would be great to talk to someone at the NI office. Will go and top up my phone and waste another 500 baht waiting on the line.

Send an email, I have just sent one to pensions asking a question...????

[chickenslegs]

3 minutes ago, samtam said:

My record begins with:

 

 

That doesn't mean that you need to pay 16 years of AVCs. You need to find out how many years are needed to get to your maximum. I needed 40 years total.

[samtam]

8 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

That doesn't mean that you need to pay 16 years of AVCs. You need to find out how many years are needed to get to your maximum. I needed 40 years total.

OK, I have sent an online inquiry. Just so I have some idea, what did 5 years of AVCs cost you?

 

[chickenslegs]

When I contacted the DWP about my AVCs they sent me an email showing which years I should pay - here is an excerpt - note the warning about pre 2016 payments.

About paying more years of voluntary contributions

Paying more years of voluntary contributions will increase what you will receive for each year paid.  For pension  purposes it is only beneficial to pay any of the post April 2016 tax years.

The table below shows what you can pay.

If you do not pay by the first date shown, the amount may be more when you do come to pay. We cannot accept payment if we get it after the final time limit shown.

Tax Year	Number and rate of contributions	Amount	Payment date without penalty	Final time Limit
2016-2017	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2023
2017-2018	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2024
2018-2019	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2025
2019-2020	52 @ £15.00	£780.00	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2026
2020-2021	52 @ £15.30	£795.60	5 April 2023	5 April 2027
2021-2022	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	5 April 2024	5 April 2028

 

Payment date without penalty

If you want to pay your contributions, at the amount shown, you must send your payment so we get it by the ‘pay without penalty’ date. If we get your payment after this date, the amount will increase.

[samtam]

12 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

I had 35 years of NI contributions, but I was "contracted out" for all those years. My Gateway account told me that my expected weekly pension would be 143GBP and that this could be increased to 170GBP if I paid 5 years of AVC's, which I did.

So if you hadn't contributed 5 years of AVCs, you would still have received GBP143? Presumably the 5 years cost to increase the weekly to GBP170 cost around GBP7,020? (Difference of GBP27 pw x 52 x 5).

[chickenslegs]

1 minute ago, samtam said:

OK, I have sent an online inquiry. Just so I have some idea, what did 5 years of AVCs cost you?

 

My mistake, it was 6 years - 4778.80 GBP. A bit of a shock as I had assumed I was fully paid up.

[samtam]

1 minute ago, chickenslegs said:

My mistake, it was 6 years - 4778.80 GBP. A bit of a shock as I had assumed I was fully paid up.

OK, got it. I will find out how many years I need to pay.

Just confused why  contributions jump from 30 years to 35 years to 40 years.

 

[samtam]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

Send an email, I have just sent one to pensions asking a question...????

Thanks. Yes, I discovered on online form, so let's see how many weeks that takes to answer!

[worgeordie]

2 hours ago, Upnotover said:

Not when I read it it doesn't;

 

Your State Pension can be paid into:

• a bank in the country you’re living in
• a bank or building society in the UK

Yes ,get mine paid into my daughters bank account ,because

I no longer have UK bank

regards worgeordie

[scubascuba3]

37 minutes ago, samtam said:

That may well be the case. It would be great to talk to someone at the NI office. Will go and top up my phone and waste another 500 baht waiting on the line.

Use Skype app and it won't cost much to call UK, add £5ish to start with. I think it's 2p a minute

Edited July 20, 2022 by scubascuba3

[scubascuba3]

23 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

When I contacted the DWP about my AVCs they sent me an email showing which years I should pay - here is an excerpt - note the warning about pre 2016 payments.

About paying more years of voluntary contributions

Paying more years of voluntary contributions will increase what you will receive for each year paid.  For pension  purposes it is only beneficial to pay any of the post April 2016 tax years.

The table below shows what you can pay.

If you do not pay by the first date shown, the amount may be more when you do come to pay. We cannot accept payment if we get it after the final time limit shown.

Tax Year	Number and rate of contributions	Amount	Payment date without penalty	Final time Limit
2016-2017	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2023
2017-2018	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2024
2018-2019	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2025
2019-2020	52 @ £15.00	£780.00	Within 8 weeks of the date of this letter	5 April 2026
2020-2021	52 @ £15.30	£795.60	5 April 2023	5 April 2027
2021-2022	52 @ £15.40	£800.80	5 April 2024	5 April 2028

 

Payment date without penalty

If you want to pay your contributions, at the amount shown, you must send your payment so we get it by the ‘pay without penalty’ date. If we get your payment after this date, the amount will increase.

Why is there a final time limit? usually people are advised not to buy extra years until just before retirement 

[samtam]

14 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Yes ,get mine paid into my daughters bank account ,because

I no longer have UK bank

regards worgeordie

Perhaps you applied as a UK resident?

The overseas form only suggests overseas accounts.

[samtam]

26 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

My mistake, it was 6 years - 4778.80 GBP. A bit of a shock as I had assumed I was fully paid up.

So you pay about 50% of what the GBP27 pw would be, to top up to get the full GBP170 pw pension.

[partington]

30 minutes ago, samtam said:

OK, got it. I will find out how many years I need to pay.

Just confused why  contributions jump from 30 years to 35 years to 40 years.

 

Firstly pay a lot of attention to chickenlegs posts, as you can end up paying for years that will not increase your pension at all even though they are unpaid years.

Usually these are any years before 2015.

 

Why it changed for you from 30 to 35 to 40 is roughly this:

 

Before 2015 the maximum number of years you needed to contribute for a full pension was 30. I was paying mine (voluntary contributions) by direct debit. When it got to 30 years  [in about 2012] they said you have enough, and stopped taking my direct debit.

 

BUT in 2015 they changed the number of years needed for a full pension to 35. So now to get a full pension I had to pay 5  more years - I fell into the transition period group. [Anyone starting work after 2015 just has to pay 35 years, but people in the transition group can pay more years than 35  if necessary to get the full pension.]

 

However the new pension rules for transition people meant that they started from a "basic starting amount" earned by 30 years' contributions, which could then be added to by paying more years.

 

if you had already paid the full 30 years' contributions before 2015  [that would have entitled you to a full pension before 2015], then even if you had unpaid years before 2015, paying  for them would not add anything, because you had already reached your basic starting amount.

 

Instead you have to pay years after that to reach the full pension. Each extra year you pay for adds about £4.50 per week to your pension. For transition people sometimes getting to the maximum current  pension amount requires more than 5 years, given that 5 years only adds £22.50 (figures very rough can't remember exactly) to your weekly amount. Therefore transition people, but no-one else, are allowed to pay more than 35 years NICS if it brings them to the maximum current amount, so that they don't lose out if 5 years isn't enough to reach that amount.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by partington

[samtam]

5 minutes ago, partington said:

Firstly pay a lot of attention to chickenlegs posts, as you can end up paying for years that will not increase your pension at all even though they are unpaid years.

Usually these are any years before 2015.

 

Why it changed for you from 30 to 35 to 40 is roughly this:

 

Before 2015 the maximum number of years you needed to contribute for a full pension was 30. I was paying mine (voluntary contributions) by direct debit. When it got to 30 years  [in about 2012] they said you have enough, and stopped taking my direct debit.

 

BUT in 2015 they changed the number of years needed for a full pension to 35. So now to get a full pension I had to pay 5  more years - I fell into the transition period group. [Anyone starting work after 2015 just has to pay 35 years, but people in the transition group can pay more years than 35  if necessary to get the full pension.]

 

However the new pension rules for transition people meant that they started from a "basic starting amount" earned by 30 years' contributions, which could then be added to by paying more years.

 

if you had already paid the full 30 years' contributions before 2015  [that would have entitled you to a full pension before 2015], then even if you had unpaid years before 2015, paying  for them would not add anything, because you had already reached your basic starting amount.

 

Instead you have to pay years after that to reach the full pension. Each extra year you pay for adds about £4.50 per week to your pension. For transition people sometimes getting to the maximum current  pension amount requires more than 5 years, given that 5 years only adds £22.50 (figures very rough can't remember exactly) to your weekly amount. Therefore transition people, but no-one else, are allowed to pay more than 5 extra years if it brings them to the maximum current amount, so that they don't lose out if 5 years issn't enough to reach that amount.

 

 

OK, thanks. I need DWP to tell me what I need to pay to get the full pension. I was oblivious to the changes from 30 to 35 years, and have only started taking an interest since I turned 65 in March, and wanted to check how I claimed, and what I assumed would be my full pension.

Edited July 20, 2022 by samtam

[samtam]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You can use any UK address, there's no checks made that you actually live there.

I just use the last house I rented in the UK.

But where do they send the invitation code to?

[Upnotover]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

My record begins with:

 

You have:

• 31 years of full contributions
• 1 year to contribute before 5 April 2022
• 16 years when you did not contribute enough

 

My current "State Pension Summary" shows a full pension entitlement.  This is where you need to look.  What does your show?  It is where it tells you actually how many years you need to top up.  Mine used to tell me I was a year short.  However, my NI statement still shows the following, even though topping up any more will not achieve anything.;

• 33 years of full contributions
• 4 years to contribute before 5 April 2026
• 13 years when you did not contribute enough

[samtam]

40 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

My current "State Pension Summary" shows a full pension entitlement.  This is where you need to look.  What does your show?  It is where it tells you actually how many years you need to top up.  Mine used to tell me I was a year short.  However, my NI statement still shows the following, even though topping up any more will not achieve anything.;

• 33 years of full contributions
• 4 years to contribute before 5 April 2026
• 13 years when you did not contribute enough

This is what mine says:

 

 

however, this then follows:

 

Do you have the same? The "what follows" means I have to contribute to attain the forecast, although I think I will not get the current full pension, which is GBP179.60, even if I make further contributions. If I don't make any further contributions, then I don't know what I get.

[samtam]

5 hours ago, Upnotover said:

Not when I read it it doesn't;

 

Your State Pension can be paid into:

• a bank in the country you’re living in
• a bank or building society in the UK

Just received this answer to the overseas form filling regarding payment into a UK account:

 

Quote

If you would like your pension to be paid into a UK bank, then ignore the international direct payment form part 9 and put your UK bank details in section 10 (other information) of the claim form or on a separate attached sheet.

[partington]

18 minutes ago, samtam said:

This is what mine says:

 

 

however, this then follows:

 

Do you have the same? The "what follows" means I have to contribute to attain the forecast, although I think I will not get the current full pension, which is GBP179.60, even if I make further contributions. If I don't make any further contributions, then I don't know what I get.

No -the current full pension is £185.15 per week as your "what follows" states.

 

If you don't make any further contributions at all you will get £163.99 per week as your "what follows" states.

 

Each year you contribute currently earns you an extra £5.29 per week.

 

So if you pay NIC  for the last year (the year ending April 2022) you will earn £163.99 + £5.29 = £169.28,   as your "what follows" states.

 

You can earn the maximum - £185.15 - by paying for another three previous years on top of that ie £169.28 + (3 X £5.29)  = £185.15.

 

It's very clear.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by partington

[Upnotover]

21 minutes ago, samtam said:

This is what mine says:

 

 

however, this then follows:

 

Do you have the same? The "what follows" means I have to contribute to attain the forecast, although I think I will not get the current full pension, which is GBP179.60, even if I make further contributions. If I don't make any further contributions, then I don't know what I get.

Mine was similar but not quite the same as yours as it was clear I had one year to make up.  In your case it seems you will get £163.99 based upon your current contributions.  Seems that 21/22 is not calculated yet so they are saying what you'll get assuming it is a full year (which it clearly wont be).  And a maximum of £185.15 (the current full pension amount) if you top up some more - looks to me like a total of 4 (3+'21/22) years needed.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Upnotover
calc

[samtam]

9 minutes ago, partington said:

No -the current full pension is £185.15 per week as your "what follows" states.

 

If you don't make any further contributions at all you will get £163.99 per week as your "what follows" states.

 

Each year you contribute currently earns you an extra £5.29 per week.

 

So if you pay NIC  for the last year (the year ending April 2022) you will earn £163.99 + £5.29 = £169.28,   as your "what follows" states.

 

You can earn the maximum - £185.15 - by paying for another three previous years on top of that ie £169.28 + (3 X £5.29)  = £185.15.

 

It's very clear.

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

Mine was similar but not quite the same as yours as it was clear I had one year to make up.  In your case it seems you will get £163.99 based upon your current contributions.  Seems that 21/22 is not calculated yet so they are saying what you'll get assuming it is a full year (which it clearly wont be).  And a maximum of £185.15 (the current full pension amount) if you top up some more - looks to me like a total of 4 (3+'21/22) years needed.

Appreciate your advice. So, here's breakdown:

 

 

...and accordingly, I should pay and additional GBP2,444.00

(GBP795.60 + 824.20 + 824.20)?

Should I get confirmation from NI DWP?

[Upnotover]

4 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Appreciate your advice. So, here's breakdown:

 

 

...and accordingly, I should pay and additional GBP2,444.00

(GBP795.60 + 824.20 + 824.20)?

Should I get confirmation from NI DWP?

Well, as stated before it's 4 years you need not 3 (don't forget '21/22).  Personally I would certainly try to get confirmation before sending money into oblivion.

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Why is there a final time limit? usually people are advised not to buy extra years until just before retirement 

For a limited time you can continue to pay AVCs to increase your pension, even after you start to receive your pension.

I paid for my extra years in March at the rates shown in my post. If I had waited until April the NI rates had increased by about 50 GBP a year.

[simon43]

Although I'm 3 years away from my pension date, I had a look at the claim form.  Wow!  Unless I have misread the requirements, they want all dates of my employment for my whole career!  I worked as a contract engineer and had more than 40 different employers... How the f... am I meant to remember all the details?  I left the UK for good in 2002......

[samtam]

3 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

Well, as stated before it's 4 years you need not 3 (don't forget '21/22).  Personally I would certainly try to get confirmation before sending money into oblivion.

OK, thanks. I will try and get them on the blower tomorrow.

[Upnotover]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Although I'm 3 years away from my pension date, I had a look at the claim form.  Wow!  Unless I have misread the requirements, they want all dates of my employment for my whole career!  I worked as a contract engineer and had more than 40 different employers... How the f... am I meant to remember all the details?  I left the UK for good in 2002......

It has been said on here before that claiming by phone is far easier than filling in the form with all those dates, etc. - apparently all the detail is not needed at all.  Can't say from personal experience but have certainly read it here several times over the years.

[partington]

34 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Appreciate your advice. So, here's breakdown:

 

 

...and accordingly, I should pay and additional GBP2,444.00

(GBP795.60 + 824.20 + 824.20)?

Should I get confirmation from NI DWP?

You do need to pay 4 years if you have not yet paid anything for tax year 2021-2022.

 

It would be worth clicking on the "details" section for years 2015-2016 (? maybe won't count to increase pension), 2016-2017, 2017-2018  (earlier years won't count) to see if it says you can make up the shortfall  by paying any of these years, as it is just possible they may be cheaper, so it might be worth choosing these years to pay instead of the later ones .

 

I would definitely get confirmation from DWP on what you plan to do, in case I am wrong!

Added in edit: specifically I may be wrong about paying for the year 2015 to 2016 - this may not actually increase your pension.

 

As far as I can see paying for these 4 years at ~£3270 will earn you about £1100 extra each year you are paid a pension, so it will only be 3 years into your pension before you break even and everything after is pure profit.

Edited July 20, 2022 by partington

[Mutt Daeng]

10 hours ago, Upnotover said:

It has been said on here before that claiming by phone is far easier than filling in the form with all those dates, etc. - apparently all the detail is not needed at all.  Can't say from personal experience but have certainly read it here several times over the years.

Yes, those forms are quite daunting. I applied by telephone, so the forms were not required. Also you do not need to send any supporting docs such as birth certificates, marriage certificates etc if you apply by phone. It's really simple by phone as you don't need to provide the same level of info that the forms require (in particular employment history). The number I called was +44 191 2187777 and was connected to an operator within a couple of minutes.  As @scubascuba3 has already mentioned, if you call them via Skype it will be cheap. It cost me around 50p for a 29 minute call.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Mutt Daeng

[transam]

15 hours ago, samtam said:

Thanks. Yes, I discovered on online form, so let's see how many weeks that takes to answer!

I have done it before, they state up-to 10 days, which was correct....