Face and HIV in Thai men

[Bobbie Davies]

I’m putting this long post out there in the knowledge that it will probably bring out the trolls like white on rice. But I have not seen it comprehensively discussed, and I think it is very important. I’m gay and HIV positive. I am dating a gay man in Thailand 45 and only 10 years my junior. Have been for 3 years. He also is HIV positive. I was very upfront about my status from the beginning. He was not. This is very common in gay Thais. HIV is stigmatizing in Thailand and personal fear of stigmatization is even stronger than the actual deal which is pretty strong. I would argue that it is not just gay Thais but Thais in general that have a fear of stigmatization a s a “losing of face” (an extremely powerful force in Thailand) I do not judge my manfriend for his non-disclosure. He finally let me know 2 years and eight months into our relationship. I also semi dated and am current friends with 2 other Thai men who it turned out over time were also HIV positive. In the cases of all 3 only a VERY select number of people know their status. By very select I mean their mothers. My 2 friends have not disclosed to others including potential or current partners their status. The only reason I may be an exception in this disclosure is my own honesty and proven (over time) non-judgemental stance (as well as my being hooked into the latest treatments for HIV) and their desire for better medications. Remember their choices of treatment are limited by their income level. Just because the government gives them free or discounted HIV meds does not mean they are getting the best or most up-to-date treatments. Personally I am on Cabenuva, (Currently only available in the US and I believe UK) one shot every two months, non detectable. To be clear, I am not judging them they are simply being realistic from their viewpoint. This is also a country in which  people see diseases in a moral light (bad Dharma). There is a high probability of losing family (literally kicked to the street), friends, jobs, and homes due to voluntary disclosure. I have a few reasons for this post:

 

- To give a heads up to other Farang that your manfriend may not tell you his status. Always play safe period.

- Such dishonesty is very common in Thailand and is meant to save face. Many times the external is more important than the internal for Thais. Kind of a “fake it till you make it” attitude. How you present yourself is viewed as an indicator of who you are inside. DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT pressure them for honesty, it just compounds the problem and you will never get an honest answer. They are not trying to give you HIV and would feel very bad If you contracted it, but they are also sure as hell not going to give you their life story or tell you about the most traumatic parts of their lives. The history of Farang in Thailand is not flattering and they will not even begin to truly trust you for at least 3 years and gone through good and bad with them. They are also subject to heavy and I mean HEAVY indoctrination from about 7 years old in absolute respect for status. Farang are very often seen of higher status than the farmboy from Isan. The very fact you could afford a ticket to Thailand shows that to them. Remember appearances. If you ask them for “Johnny without a jacket” they may play along because you have power over them and they may fear the consequences if they do not acquiesce. No payment, loss of Face for you or them, etc…

- Those of us Farang who have HIV do not have to live our lives alone without someone to love. We also do not have to risk others’ lives to satisfy our own desires either. We need to be honest with our potential Thai partner. Those who are not seropositive need to still protect themselves and their potential partners by playing safe. If your Thai man is willing to have a relationship (beyond the simply commercial) with you after your honesty that may already answer any question you may have had.

- This is also a cause of some Thai “boys” disappearing. They have HIV and do not want you or others to find out. For the record, the likelihood of disappearance increases with the original status of the Thai man. Most Middle Class and HiSo Thai men have a lot more invested in “Face” than that farmboy from Isan. The fact that you are Farang and not “White Asian” also plays into the equation but this post is just dealing with HIV.

- Believe me not all Thai gay men have HIV, but there is an extremely large number who do. You need to decide if it is something you can live with before you ever begin to approach a Thai man for a relationship. You also need to be aware that THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU at the start of the relationship. No matter how much anyone might moan or bitch about it, it is simple fact. The choice between potentially and advantageously expanding their social circle or telling some butterfly their deepest and darkest, is a no brainer. Not gonna happen. They’re not going to tell you about previous relationships (unless they have a reason), they’re not going to tell you about a drug habit (unless you will supply them with drugs), they’re not going to tell you their life story, and they’re not going to tell you if they have HIV. Get over it or get gone. Think hard about this reality and always play safe.

[Scott]

I've never had the occasion to ask anyone if they had HIV and I wouldn't necessarily expect the truth if I did.  I have, however, known a few Thai people who did have it. 

 

One of the first that I knew had it was a young man who worked for me part time.  He was very nice and eventually moved on to greener pastures and higher pay.  Periodically, we would get together for lunch as he worked in a nice area of BKK.  On a few rare occasions, he came by to borrow money -- always pretty small amounts to get by until pay day.  It was clear that he was having some medical issues.  Mostly he was looking gaunt and had lost a lot of weight and he was quite thin to begin with.  He had spent a short time in hospital for some minor infection that just wouldn't clear up.  I told him he really needed to get tested for HIV.  We were close enough that I could talk to him without him getting upset and still I was insulated from his social circle and family enough that anything I knew could not get back to them.  He did get tested.  He was + and it was a difficult journey for him.  His health was bad, he had multiple hospitalizations, got fired and eventually returned to his up-country family. 

 

I haven't heard from him for quite a while, but the last time I did, he was back in BKK and working.  I am sure he keeps his status silent after having been fired.  

 

Another person I know who tested + did as the OP said.  He simply disappeared.  He went off social media and has never answered his phone call.  Again, I did not know many of his friends, but did ask one where he was.  His friend has never heard from him either. 

[scubascuba3]

If I was gay I'd definitely get HIV tests at the start of a relationship, personally i would do with women also. Why farang gay guys aren't on PrEP years ago so they don't get HIV I don't understand