Dual Citizenship/ Passport Question.

[Cannyscot]

I have a friend who is a Thai citizen, but who lives in the USA and has had Resident Alien status there for many years. He now wishes to become an American citizen. I understand from other threads that there is no problem about him maintaining dual citizenship. However, he would like to know what would happen at the American end if they can't see a Thai departure stamp in his passport?(This is because he uses his Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand, but his American passport to leave and re-enter the USA).

[RalphUK]

Positively no problem. The Customs and Border Protection officer is solely concerned that he is a US citizen. If asked where he came from he would simply explain he has dual citizenship and if asked show his Thai passport. Nothing unusual for US citizens to arrive without a departure stamp as some countries do not stamp or even check passports of departing passengers.

And as he zaps through immigration perhaps he could spare a thought for non US arrivals. Interminable delays now they finger scan and photo everyone.

[Eff1n2ret]

Are you sure that the USA does allow dual nationality? They didn't use to. I seem to remember Rupert Murdoch having to renounce his Australian citizenship when he needed to acquire USA nationality.

[expatwannabe]

U.S. natural born citizens who gain citizenship to another country won't have a problem with the U.S.

But U.S. naturalized citizens can be a problem - because when they take the oath, they have to swear that they renounce their previous citizenship.

So it can be a problem .. depending on where you started and where you want to go.

Also, some countries don't won't recognize your new citizenship even if you've renounced the old one. Iran is a case in point.

[neilrob]

U.S. natural born citizens who gain citizenship to another country won't have a problem with the U.S.

But U.S. naturalized citizens can be a problem - because when they take the oath, they have to swear that they renounce their previous citizenship.

So it can be a problem .. depending on where you started and where you want to go.

Also, some countries don't won't recognize your new citizenship even if you've renounced the old one. Iran is a case in point.

I have direct experience of this. I am a UK citizen who became a naturalized US citizen also, 20 years ago. My partner is a Thai citizen who also became a naturalized US citizen many years ago. Both of us have (and use when convenient) two passports. The US Supreme Court ruled in the 60s that the old US laws against dual citizens cannot be enforced. (But special rules apply to ownership of very large media companies---presumably that is why Murdoch did what he did---presumably also the OP's partner does not intend to take over the NY Times!) Neither I nor my partner have ever had any problems whatsoever when entering or leaving the US, many, many times. It is not a problem at all, so go ahead and get US citizenship. I wish I could get Thai citizenship as easily. Neil

[expatwannabe]

The US Supreme Court ruled in the 60s that the old US laws against dual citizens cannot be enforced. ... Neither I nor my partner have ever had any problems whatsoever when entering or leaving the US, many, many times. It is not a problem at all, so go ahead and get US citizenship. I wish I could get Thai citizenship as easily. Neil

Yes, true, it's not enforced. But at the same time, the US Supreme Court decided to leave in the part of the oath where you say you'll 'renounce your previous citizenship.' So while it may not be enforced right now, it's still part of the oath. And the way the Xenophobic U.S. is sounding off these days, it's not out of the question that it could be enforced in the future.

Congrats to you, though, NeilRob. Nice to hear of a gay couple happily settling in the U.S. I don't have the option of taking my Thai partner there or I would. Instead .. we have to go to Canada.

[pampal]

Are you sure that the USA does allow dual nationality? They didn't use to. I seem to remember Rupert Murdoch having to renounce his Australian citizenship when he needed to acquire USA nationality.

Rupert Murdoch renounced his Australian citizenship because the US does not allow foreigners to own more than a minority stake in Radio/Television stations.

Edited June 23, 2007 by pampal

[pampal]

U.S. natural born citizens who gain citizenship to another country won't have a problem with the U.S.

But U.S. naturalized citizens can be a problem - because when they take the oath, they have to swear that they renounce their previous citizenship.

So it can be a problem .. depending on where you started and where you want to go.

Also, some countries don't won't recognize your new citizenship even if you've renounced the old one. Iran is a case in point.

Actually Iran does recognize dual citizenship. The problem is that when you enter a country such as Iran with an Iranian passport, you are considered Iranian. The people currently having problems there have entered Iran with their Iranian passport and not their US passport. The people currently detained in Iran have not renounced their

 Iranian citizenship and have entered Iran with their Iranian passports, so they

are Iranians under international law. They should have gotten an Iranian visa in their US passports so they 

could be protected under international law. Big Mistake

[RalphUK]

The citizenship oath includes the following:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen.

It doesn’t actually state that you have to renounce previous citizenship. But I assume that when this was written a pre-requisite of getting to state the oath was that you had already done so.

However, the US Department of State website states:

……….For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship………

……….dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.

My highlighting

[samran]

Are you sure that the USA does allow dual nationality? They didn't use to. I seem to remember Rupert Murdoch having to renounce his Australian citizenship when he needed to acquire USA nationality.

Rupert Murdoch renounced his Australian citizenship because the US does not allow foreigners to own more than a minority stake in Radio/Television stations.

just to be pedantic,

Rupert never formally renounced his Australian nationality, but he did lose it automatically by becoming an American citizen. The Australian Citizenship Act of 1949 while not prohibiting plural citizenship, did automatically strip Australian citizenship from those who voluntarily became nationals of other countries. So, while it was possible to be born a dual national, or move to Australia, naturalise and keep your old nationality, to be and Austrlian citizen and then aquire a further citizenship meant automatic loss of Australian nationality.

This law was removed in 2002, but it was not retrospective.

As of July 2007 however, new nationality laws come into effect. The new law will effectively mean that people who are former Australian nationals will be able to renew their Austrlian citizenship by merely proving they are of good character (ie no criminal record). This scraps the old method of resumption of citizenship, where the former national had to commit to moving back to Australia in a given time frame.

[RalphUK]

As of July 2007 however, new nationality laws come into effect. The new law will effectively mean that people who are former Australian nationals will be able to renew their Austrlian citizenship by merely proving they are of good character (ie no criminal record). This scraps the old method of resumption of citizenship, where the former national had to commit to moving back to Australia in a given time frame.

The earlier right to resumption of Aussie citizenship was granted by Section 23AA, incorporated into the 1948 Immigration Act sometime in the 1990s (can't find the date). One provision was that a person makes a statement that he intends to reside in Australia within 3 years. I cannot find any provision permitting the revoking of citizenship if this provision was not subsequently met.

Murdochs lawyers would of course have known of 23AA, so I assume he wasn't bothered or he sounded out the government and they said ‘not on your life, mate’

If he wants to become an Aussie again under the 2007 Act, requiring a clean criminal record, he may need to move quickly if todays New York Observer is corrrect

Edited to add last paragraph

Edited June 24, 2007 by RalphUK

[neilrob]

Congrats to you, though, NeilRob. Nice to hear of a gay couple happily settling in the U.S. I don't have the option of taking my Thai partner there or I would. Instead .. we have to go to Canada.

What makes you think we happily settled in the US? We enjoyed our many years there, but neither of us has any wish to remain in America. We are living in Thailand. But thanks for the congrats.

Neil