One question concerning a Last Will and Testament

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

It is not so much a matter of testamentary intent. You can do it all in theory in English and then have it translated but it is best to do it all up front so that there is no question that at the time the person drafted their Will, 

 

So your lawyer link says Thai as well. Otherwise it can be challenged.

 

Thought so.

Both those links, from different lawyers' firms, also stated that valid wills can be written in English.   That was all that the OP was asking about.

 

Wills written in Thai can be challenged also!

Edited October 11, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Both those links, from different lawyers' firms also stated that valid wills can be written in English.   That was all that the OP was asking about.

Says it's not 100% sound. Could be questioned. The lawyer says do both.

 

So your advice is therefore weak. A will should be 100% sound.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Sparktrader

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Wills written in Thai can be challenged also!

2 languages is recommended to make it stronger.

 

Why would you want a weaker will?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:01 AM, Sparktrader said:

Yes you cant make up your own rules. Wills are to be written in local official language.

Do you have a link to prove that "wills have to be written in the official local language"?

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

Do you have a link to prove that "wills have to be written in the official local language"?

For which country?

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Both those links, from different lawyers' firms also stated that valid wills can be written in English.   That was all that the OP was asking about.

Says it's not 100% sound. Could be questioned. The lawyer says do both.

 

So your advice is therefore weak. A will should be 100% sound.

The OP asked if wills in Thailand can be written in English (and be valid), that's all.  My answer was 100% correct, they can be.  

[Liverpool Lou]

Just now, Sparktrader said:

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do you have a link to prove that "wills have to be written in the official local language"?

For which country?

For the country that you were referring to in your comment, obviously, Thailand.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

The OP asked if wills in Thailand can be written in English (and be valid), that's all.  My answer was 100% correct, they can be.  

Yet lawyers say twin language stronger. Why make a weak will? Do both job done.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

2 languages is recommended to make it stronger.

 

Why would you want a weaker will?

That wasn't the subject of the OP's question.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

For the country that you were referring to in your comment, obviously, Thailand.

Can you write in German?

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

That wasn't the subject of the OP's question.

Well i did my will 2 months ago. Used a lawyer template with good wording. The witnesses said it was better written than most and they have seen a 1000. Cost me zip.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

For the country that you were referring to in your comment, obviously, Thailand.

Can you write in German?

No, I'm English, I cannot write German, why do you ask?   

 

If you're referring to wills in Thailand, yes, they could be written in German but would have to be translated into Thai for probate.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

No, I'm English, I cannot write German, why do you ask?   

 

If you're referring to wills in Thailand, yes, they could be written in German but would have to be translated into Thai for probate.

So a lawyer said that?

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Well i did my will 2 months ago. Used a lawyer template with good wording. The witnesses said it was better written than most and they have seen a 1000. Cost me zip.

Very good, have a gold star, but, so what?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, I'm English, I cannot write German, why do you ask?   

 

If you're referring to wills in Thailand, yes, they could be written in German but would have to be translated into Thai for probate.

So a lawyer said that?

A lawyer would say that, yes.   As long as it is translated into Thai for probate there would be no problem.  Non-Thai does not invalidate a will here.

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Very good, have a gold star, but, so what?

The point is a good will can be done cheap or free. Top legal firms have templates. Do one in English free, pay for translation in Thai. Strong will.

 

Ive read $500 wills, full of mumbo jumbo. Not needed.

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

A lawyer would say that, yes.   As long as it is translated into Thai for probate there would be no problem.  Non-Thai does not invalidate a will here.

Your link said English and Thai only.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

A lawyer would say that, yes.   As long as it is translated into Thai for probate there would be no problem.  Non-Thai does not invalidate a will here.

Your link said English and Thai only.

No, the links only referred to English and Thai because they were the subject of the question, they did not say that other languages could not be translated to Thai for probate.   

 

Thai courts require the probate documentation to be in Thai, that's why they have to be translated, the language that they were written in originally is irrelevant as the Thai translation is the one that would be used.

[Liverpool Lou]

10 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

The point is a good will can be done cheap or free. Top legal firms have templates. Do one in English free, pay for translation in Thai. Strong will.

 

Ive read $500 wills, full of mumbo jumbo. Not needed.

I don't dispute that, it's a great response to a question no one asked.

[hotandsticky]

The only purpose of a foreign language drafted Will is so that the foreigner can understand it. 

 

Far better to draft something in your own language then have it translated into Thai for execution/witnessing.

[Sparktrader]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, the links only referred to English and Thai because they were the subject of the question, they did not say that other languages could not be translated to Thai for probate.   

 

Thai courts require the probate documentation to be in Thai, that's why they have to be translated, the language that they were written in originally is irrelevant as the Thai translation is the one that would be used.

Id ask a lawyer if German.

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I don't dispute that, it's a great response to a question no one asked.

Well if he's looking to save money and get a strong will do that. Dont pay twice.

 

 

[JimGant]

Geez, your Will can be in any language you like, assuming it can be translated into Thai so that it can be processed by the courts or other Thais with an interest (e.g., your bank manager). That the OP says, let the translation wait until he's dead -- makes good sense, particularly for the following reason:

 

If you make a Will with a lawyer, who says he'll make it in two versions -- and he's a crook -- his Thai version may have a few goodies to his benefit inserted, and as you can't read Thai, you'd never know. But, if you have it translated by an independent party, like, after you're dead, with no interest or possible benefit in the Will -- well, certainly a better chance of having a legitimate translation of your original Will.

 

So, just having a Will in your home language, properly witnessed, and whose location your executor knows -- should suffice. Have it translated later, if needed.

 

Oh, yeah -- if there's a dispute between your home country language Will and its translation into Thai -- the Thai version wins. But I would assume, if your executor is attuned to your real wishes, that he could ask the court for another translation. But, I digress too much -- as a translation by a disinterested party, and not the lawyer preparing your Will (if any), shouldn't be a problem.

[Keith5588]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Actually, you could, as long as it is signed and witnessed correctly.  A will is just a piece of paper with words written on it, and signed and witnessed.

I thought exactly the same as you @Liverpool Lou thank you. And thank you for your other sensible and helpful comments. 

[Thaifish]

Wow good topic. I'm not a solicitor or lawyer. Just updated my Last Will and Testimony In Ozz 4 months ago and my assets in Ozz are assets remaining there... As is my will... From what I understand any assets in Thailand can be accessed by your spouse through the court process. A death certificate is required to gain access to whatever is remaining in the Kingdom. A Thai Will is not required but the process of getting access to your assets could be a pain in the rectum.         

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Geez, your Will can be in any language you like, assuming it can be translated into Thai so that it can be processed by the courts or other Thais with an interest (e.g., your bank manager). That the OP says, let the translation wait until he's dead -- makes good sense, particularly for the following reason:

 

If you make a Will with a lawyer, who says he'll make it in two versions -- and he's a crook -- his Thai version may have a few goodies to his benefit inserted, and as you can't read Thai, you'd never know. But, if you have it translated by an independent party, like, after you're dead, with no interest or possible benefit in the Will -- well, certainly a better chance of having a legitimate translation of your original Will.

 

So, just having a Will in your home language, properly witnessed, and whose location your executor knows -- should suffice. Have it translated later, if needed.

 

Oh, yeah -- if there's a dispute between your home country language Will and its translation into Thai -- the Thai version wins. But I would assume, if your executor is attuned to your real wishes, that he could ask the court for another translation. But, I digress too much -- as a translation by a disinterested party, and not the lawyer preparing your Will (if any), shouldn't be a problem.

Easy to read thai. Thats what aps are for.

 

English will free from internet

Thai use translator not lawyer

 

Get authorised signing.

 

You dont need a lawyer to write a will

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Sparktrader

[Keith5588]

@JimGant   and  @Liverpool Lou  
Thank you both so much.
I started this post because someone said very positively that my Thai Will needs to be in Thai language, similar to some people posting here.
It made no sense to me that MY WILL needs to be written in a language I do not understand. I would not sign a Will I do not understand and so it would be worthless. As said any Will can be translated later if the Thai court needs that to be done.

You have both confirmed what I previously concluded and also given me extra information and good links.

I think a lot is common sense. I spent a lot of time making sure that both Wills (Thai and UK) were very clear and concise. At first my Will fitted on 2 pages, I was going to sign and have witnessed each page, but in the end after playing with font sizes etc. managed to fit each Will on 1 page. That was the extent I went to just to make sure.
The only problem was some people recently saying very positively that my Thai Will needs to be in Thai language which made no sense to me.
I guess the reason is that all Legal Services and Lawyers in Thailand are mostly Thai people. They probably write their Will template in Thai language and then translate to English (they may or may not offer a translation to a different language other than English). So they already have their Will templates in Thai Language and in English language. So very little work to give you both.
I have never been to any Legal Services or Lawyers in Thailand to have my Will done but I guess that I would only sign the English written one.

I didn't write my own Wills to save money. If possible I like to understand and have control over my affairs. It is the same with dealing with immigration, I have always made sure that I understand and so have never used an agent or paid any "tea money". Even for my yearly 1 year extension based on retirement I have always been in and out in less than 1 hour.
Sorry now I am going off topic.

Thank you both again for your very good help.
Keith

[JimGant]

As maybe a point of interest, my own Will was written in 1983 by the Air Force JAG office in the Pentagon (thus it looks nice and official, which the Thais love). Since it says I leave everything to my wife, period (same Thai wife as today), it's about as simple as you can get. So, I'm satisfied that it would suffice here in Thailand (since foreign Wills are acceptable, if properly witnessed, which it is) should it (and its translated version) need to go through probate.

 

But I doubt it will need probate, as all my assets subject to probate are bank accounts. And one is joint with the wife, and the other one (my immigration related account) has the wife as the co-signatory. So the wife has been advised that her first order of business, even before I am barbecued, is to go online and move most of the money from my account to hers -- and also most of the money from out joint account to hers (as there are reports that some bank managers believe half a joint account is subject to probate; wrong, but the manager's belief would prove inconvenient, if she froze the account). No need to close the accounts, as that might require my presence -- so just leaving a few thousand baht should suffice.

 

Several threads (search "asean now wills") on the legality of the above, particularly the co-signatory's authority when the primary is dead. So, I don't want to reinvent the wheel on this thread. But my take is: Who's going to complain, if your Will leaves everything to your wife (or partner) and there's no one contesting your assets? Plus, why would the bank even know you're dead (?), and thus they would have no reason to freeze your accounts. And, if they don't freeze your account, 'cause you're dead but no one told them, they have no legal issues to confront. And if there is no wronged party, who's pressing charges?

 

So, yeah, good to have a Will, should probate be necessary. But if all you have subject to probate are bank accounts -- consider briefing the wife on the above.

[hotandsticky]

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

As maybe a point of interest, my own Will was written in 1983 by the Air Force JAG office in the Pentagon (thus it looks nice and official, which the Thais love). Since it says I leave everything to my wife, period (same Thai wife as today), it's about as simple as you can get. So, I'm satisfied that it would suffice here in Thailand (since foreign Wills are acceptable, if properly witnessed, which it is) should it (and its translated version) need to go through probate.

 

But I doubt it will need probate, as all my assets subject to probate are bank accounts. And one is joint with the wife, and the other one (my immigration related account) has the wife as the co-signatory. So the wife has been advised that her first order of business, even before I am barbecued, is to go online and move most of the money from my account to hers -- and also most of the money from out joint account to hers (as there are reports that some bank managers believe half a joint account is subject to probate; wrong, but the manager's belief would prove inconvenient, if she froze the account). No need to close the accounts, as that might require my presence -- so just leaving a few thousand baht should suffice.

 

Several threads (search "asean now wills") on the legality of the above, particularly the co-signatory's authority when the primary is dead. So, I don't want to reinvent the wheel on this thread. But my take is: Who's going to complain, if your Will leaves everything to your wife (or partner) and there's no one contesting your assets? Plus, why would the bank even know you're dead (?), and thus they would have no reason to freeze your accounts. And, if they don't freeze your account, 'cause you're dead but no one told them, they have no legal issues to confront. And if there is no wronged party, who's pressing charges?

 

So, yeah, good to have a Will, should probate be necessary. But if all you have subject to probate are bank accounts -- consider briefing the wife on the above.

 

 

I agree with the legality of the all the above.

 

However, the OP would be wise to consider the practical situation. Jim hinted at it above - it is what happens on the ground that matters - and I have seen some horror stories.

 

Moving money online or via an ATM  is a smart move, prior to death or after.....irrespective of the legal position it is an effective way to distribute the funds - and will save costs if Probate does not need to be obtained. Remember also that dealing with an estate in Bangkok, and maybe Pattaya, can be totally different to Sisaket, Surin, Buriram etc. 

[Keith5588]

8 minutes ago, JimGant said:

As maybe a point of interest, my own Will was written in 1983 by the Air Force JAG office in the Pentagon (thus it looks nice and official, which the Thais love). Since it says I leave everything to my wife, period (same Thai wife as today), it's about as simple as you can get. So, I'm satisfied that it would suffice here in Thailand (since foreign Wills are acceptable, if properly witnessed, which it is) should it (and its translated version) need to go through probate.

 

But I doubt it will need probate, as all my assets subject to probate are bank accounts. And one is joint with the wife, and the other one (my immigration related account) has the wife as the co-signatory. So the wife has been advised that her first order of business, even before I am barbecued, is to go online and move most of the money from my account to hers -- and also most of the money from out joint account to hers (as there are reports that some bank managers believe half a joint account is subject to probate; wrong, but the manager's belief would prove inconvenient, if she froze the account). No need to close the accounts, as that might require my presence -- so just leaving a few thousand baht should suffice.

 

Several threads (search "asean now wills") on the legality of the above, particularly the co-signatory's authority when the primary is dead. So, I don't want to reinvent the wheel on this thread. But my take is: Who's going to complain, if your Will leaves everything to your wife (or partner) and there's no one contesting your assets? Plus, why would the bank even know you're dead (?), and thus they would have no reason to freeze your accounts. And, if they don't freeze your account, 'cause you're dead but no one told them, they have no legal issues to confront. And if there is no wronged party, who's pressing charges?

 

So, yeah, good to have a Will, should probate be necessary. But if all you have subject to probate are bank accounts -- consider briefing the wife on the above.

@JimGant  Thanks again for good solid information and advice.

Just before I wrote my Wills I read on the internet that a farang died but had no Will. All his assets went to his family in his home country. His girlfriend / partner of many years, who looked after him for many years especially his last few years had to pay for the funeral but received nothing.
I therefore visited the bank to have her open a Fixed account which I then transferred 400,000 baht into.  Then I wrote the Wills.
My Wills are also very simple except my bank accounts are in my name and I also have a car and Scooter in my name.
I did also write and printed a page of instructions. I did mention to use my ATM card to withdraw as much as possible and gave my PIN. I also stated a Lawyer for her to contact. I now realise that a Lawyer may not be necessary if no probate is needed but I think it is well worth the few thousand baht to take the legal worry away from my girlfriend and to make sure things are done correctly if I am not around. They may even give further advice (on top of what I wrote) on how best to proceed with my UK Will.

Anyway I feel very healthy at 69 years old so hopefully my Wills will not be needed for many years. Hopefully you are healthy too
Cheers
Keith