Biden will fight this war until the last Ukrainean has landed on the sacrificial altar!

It's big business for the Yankees and, unlike i.e. Korea, Vietnam or Afghanistan, Brussels NATO will not only foot but also pay the bills. Billions and billions of dollars flowing westwards across the Atlantic. 

Not a silver lining of a diplomatic approach from anywhere in the West; if the unlikely nukes fly into West European living rooms, then they can blame themselves. 

12 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Biden will fight this war until

I think you will find that it is Putin's Russia that started and is continuing this war against Ukraine!

 

If that Russian dictator had not invaded another country, there would be no need for Biden or any other western leader to get involved!

15 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

It's big business for the Yankees

Actually, it is a big business for Iran and North Korea who are supplying the aggressive Russian deranged dictator with weapons etc and making it a big business for them and their dictatorships!

10 minutes ago, DezLez said:

Actually, it is a big business for Iran and North Korea who are supplying the aggressive Russian deranged dictator with weapons etc and making it a big business for them and their dictatorships!

& Belarus

2 minutes ago, DezLez said:

I think you will find that it is Putin's Russia that started and is continuing this war against Ukraine!

 

If that Russian dictator had not invaded another country, there would be no need for Biden or any other western leader to get involved!

Look a little further back into the late 80s, the reunification of Germany and the conference of Minsk with Gorbachev and Shevardnaze on the Soviet side, Kohl and Genscher on the German side and Wörner as Secy General of NATO. NATO stated no expansion to the (collapsing communist east), based on which GDR was leaving the Warsaw Pact, a mere ten years later all Warsaw Pact were gone and NATO inched its way towards the east. Latter was most discomforting to the Russians and, knowing American interests in NATO, understandable. The rest is history as Putin, in power for 20+ years, kept repeating his concern.

I am not a Putin friend and he could have made his point by just turning off the gas/oil; but he fell of the trap, went to war and the Ukraineans are the real victims. 

No endeavour made by the west to put this hot potato onto diplomatic tables in i.e. Geneva; Biden made it clear on 7 February already, that he will ensure that the pipelines will be history .... and he followed suit. The Russians had absolutely no motivation to damage the pipelines and the Ukraineans, well, they have different issues on their plate. 

I am utterly shattered by Europe's blind following of the American whistle giving NATO the marching orders now; the losers are the Ukraineans and, in second row, the Europeans. 

Lets hope someone can apply some common sense and a ceasefire to stop this madness but do not expect any support on that from Washington DC ........ 

2 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Look a little further back into the late 80s, the reunification of Germany and the conference of Minsk with Gorbachev and Shevardnaze on the Soviet side, Kohl and Genscher on the German side and Wörner as Secy General of NATO. NATO stated no expansion to the (collapsing communist east), based on which GDR was leaving the Warsaw Pact, a mere ten years later all Warsaw Pact were gone and NATO inched its way towards the east. Latter was most discomforting to the Russians and, knowing American interests in NATO, understandable. The rest is history as Putin, in power for 20+ years, kept repeating his concern.

I am not a Putin friend and he could have made his point by just turning off the gas/oil; but he fell of the trap, went to war and the Ukraineans are the real victims. 

No endeavour made by the west to put this hot potato onto diplomatic tables in i.e. Geneva; Biden made it clear on 7 February already, that he will ensure that the pipelines will be history .... and he followed suit. The Russians had absolutely no motivation to damage the pipelines and the Ukraineans, well, they have different issues on their plate. 

I am utterly shattered by Europe's blind following of the American whistle giving NATO the marching orders now; the losers are the Ukraineans and, in second row, the Europeans. 

Lets hope someone can apply some common sense and a ceasefire to stop this madness but do not expect any support on that from Washington DC ........ 

Ukraine , as in independent Country should have the right to align with whomever they like .

  Ukraine wasn't forced to align with NATO and they shouldn't be forces NOT to align with NATO .

   Its really about time that Russia and the West and also China stopped all the hostilities and became acquaintances 

6 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Look a little further back into the late 80s, the reunification of Germany and the conference of Minsk with Gorbachev and Shevardnaze on the Soviet side, Kohl and Genscher on the German side and Wörner as Secy General of NATO. NATO stated no expansion to the (collapsing communist east), based on which GDR was leaving the Warsaw Pact, a mere ten years later all Warsaw Pact were gone and NATO inched its way towards the east. Latter was most discomforting to the Russians and, knowing American interests in NATO, understandable. The rest is history as Putin, in power for 20+ years, kept repeating his concern.

I am not a Putin friend and he could have made his point by just turning off the gas/oil; but he fell of the trap, went to war and the Ukraineans are the real victims. 

No endeavour made by the west to put this hot potato onto diplomatic tables in i.e. Geneva; Biden made it clear on 7 February already, that he will ensure that the pipelines will be history .... and he followed suit. The Russians had absolutely no motivation to damage the pipelines and the Ukraineans, well, they have different issues on their plate. 

I am utterly shattered by Europe's blind following of the American whistle giving NATO the marching orders now; the losers are the Ukraineans and, in second row, the Europeans. 

Lets hope someone can apply some common sense and a ceasefire to stop this madness but do not expect any support on that from Washington DC ........ 

You sound exactly like radio Moscow.  I know because I read from "The Duran" (Youtube) everyday about how Russia views the situation. Oh and yes they too claim they have no dog in this fight! LOL

4 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Look a little further back into the late 80s, the reunification of Germany and the conference of Minsk with Gorbachev and Shevardnaze on the Soviet side, Kohl and Genscher on the German side and Wörner as Secy General of NATO. NATO stated no expansion to the (collapsing communist east), based on which GDR was leaving the Warsaw Pact, a mere ten years later all Warsaw Pact were gone and NATO inched its way towards the east. Latter was most discomforting to the Russians and, knowing American interests in NATO, understandable. The rest is history as Putin, in power for 20+ years, kept repeating his concern.

I am not a Putin friend and he could have made his point by just turning off the gas/oil; but he fell of the trap, went to war and the Ukraineans are the real victims. 

No endeavour made by the west to put this hot potato onto diplomatic tables in i.e. Geneva; Biden made it clear on 7 February already, that he will ensure that the pipelines will be history .... and he followed suit. The Russians had absolutely no motivation to damage the pipelines and the Ukraineans, well, they have different issues on their plate. 

I am utterly shattered by Europe's blind following of the American whistle giving NATO the marching orders now; the losers are the Ukraineans and, in second row, the Europeans. 

Lets hope someone can apply some common sense and a ceasefire to stop this madness but do not expect any support on that from Washington DC ........ 

The Soviet Union has been dissolved in December 1991.  Russia officially and legally exited the Soviet Union before that, in June 1991 (even before Ukraine in August). 

If promised have been made (this is contested, but never mind), they have not been made to Russia.

And as usual, the orange guy is supporting his country! ????

"They actually taunted him, if you really look at it, our country and our so-called leadership taunted Putin," Trump said. "I would listen, I would say, you know, they're almost forcing him to go in with what they're saying. The rhetoric was so dumb."

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-blames-us-almost-forcing-095031733.html

7 minutes ago, candide said:

And as usual, the orange guy is supporting his country! ????

"They actually taunted him, if you really look at it, our country and our so-called leadership taunted Putin," Trump said. "I would listen, I would say, you know, they're almost forcing him to go in with what they're saying. The rhetoric was so dumb."

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-blames-us-almost-forcing-095031733.html

Just try and stop thinking about Donald Trump , it cannot be healthy go keep going on about him, its also way off topic and will probably get deleted 

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Just try and stop thinking about Donald Trump , it cannot be healthy go keep going on about him, its also way off topic and will probably get deleted 

Someone claiming that Putin has been "taunted" by the U.S., at a time he is threatening to use nuclear weapons, is not off-topic. Even if stated by a previous POTUS.

the crimea bridge explosion may change their mind on nukes

7 minutes ago, candide said:

Someone claiming that Putin has been "taunted" by the U.S., at a time he is threatening to use nuclear weapons, is not off-topic. Even if stated by a previous POTUS.

What Trump thinks about the situation really isn't the topic of this thread 

2 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the crimea bridge explosion may change their mind on nukes

They have been losing for some time already. That may be the clincher, not one battle.

46 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Look a little further back into the late 80s, the reunification of Germany and the conference of Minsk with Gorbachev and Shevardnaze on the Soviet side, Kohl and Genscher on the German side and Wörner as Secy General of NATO. NATO stated no expansion to the (collapsing communist east), based on which GDR was leaving the Warsaw Pact, a mere ten years later all Warsaw Pact were gone and NATO inched its way towards the east. Latter was most discomforting to the Russians and, knowing American interests in NATO, understandable. The rest is history as Putin, in power for 20+ years, kept repeating his concern.

I am not a Putin friend and he could have made his point by just turning off the gas/oil; but he fell of the trap, went to war and the Ukraineans are the real victims. 

No endeavour made by the west to put this hot potato onto diplomatic tables in i.e. Geneva; Biden made it clear on 7 February already, that he will ensure that the pipelines will be history .... and he followed suit. The Russians had absolutely no motivation to damage the pipelines and the Ukraineans, well, they have different issues on their plate. 

I am utterly shattered by Europe's blind following of the American whistle giving NATO the marching orders now; the losers are the Ukraineans and, in second row, the Europeans. 

Lets hope someone can apply some common sense and a ceasefire to stop this madness but do not expect any support on that from Washington DC ........ 

Peace talks are with Ukraine and Putin rejected them

 

As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide

But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/

 

President Zelensky: 'Ukraine won't join NATO to stop the war with Russia'

In order to find peace with Russia, president Zelensky is willing to reject NATO

https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/03/23/623a883fca47418c4d8b45f6.html

 

 

54 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Look a little further back into the late 80s, the reunification of Germany and the conference of Minsk with Gorbachev and Shevardnaze on the Soviet side, Kohl and Genscher on the German side and Wörner as Secy General of NATO. NATO stated no expansion to the (collapsing communist east), based on which GDR was leaving the Warsaw Pact, a mere ten years later all Warsaw Pact were gone and NATO inched its way towards the east. Latter was most discomforting to the Russians and, knowing American interests in NATO, understandable. The rest is history as Putin, in power for 20+ years, kept repeating his concern.

I am not a Putin friend and he could have made his point by just turning off the gas/oil; but he fell of the trap, went to war and the Ukraineans are the real victims. 

No endeavour made by the west to put this hot potato onto diplomatic tables in i.e. Geneva; Biden made it clear on 7 February already, that he will ensure that the pipelines will be history .... and he followed suit. The Russians had absolutely no motivation to damage the pipelines and the Ukraineans, well, they have different issues on their plate. 

I am utterly shattered by Europe's blind following of the American whistle giving NATO the marching orders now; the losers are the Ukraineans and, in second row, the Europeans. 

Lets hope someone can apply some common sense and a ceasefire to stop this madness but do not expect any support on that from Washington DC ........ 

Have you thought about how those countries became members of the Warsaw Pact originally?

 

A clue would be that Russia invaded and annexed those countries during the course of WW2.

 

When the Warsaw Pact finally collapsed those countries were free to choose their own course, and there was NO Russian military stationed in the country any more to force them to toe the Russian line.

 

Please tell us all how, in your opinion, NATO inched its way towards the east. Did NATO knock on the doors of each former Warsaw pact country and threaten to invade them unless they joined NATO.

 

Perhaps each of the countries individually approached NATO and asked to join NATO?

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm#:~:text=NATO's “open door policy” is,a say in such deliberations.

NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of its founding treaty. Any decision to invite a country to join the Alliance is taken by the North Atlantic Council on the basis of consensus among all Allies. No third country has a say in such deliberations.
NATO’s ongoing enlargement process poses no threat to any country. It is aimed at promoting stability and cooperation, at building a Europe whole and free, united in peace, democracy and common values.

 

If you're walking down the street one night and you see a big guy who has beaten you up in the past coming towards you, and you look over the street and see another big guy, with a group of others walking with him, you don't have to be a chicken to cross the road and join their group for your own safety.  Especially when, not only has that group offered you no harm in the past, but has actually supported you.  Sure, big guy number one might not feel like beating you up again that night, but why take the chance?  These "political commentators" who treat the whole thing as a school sports day, with the two captains choosing their teams, and you have to join one of them once chosen, are just peddling their own sick agendas.  "No, you can't join Team A, because Team B picked you, and Team B's captain can give you a thrashing if you don't stick with him".  Pathetic nonsense.  These are independent countries we're talking about, who are free to ally themselves with whomever they choose.

On 10/8/2022 at 3:51 PM, Phoenix Rising said:

Look at the bright side; if trump hadn't been absolutely slaughtered in the election the whole of Ukraine would have been in Russian hands by now.

What a load...

Troll posts removed.  Stay on topic.

 

Looks like things are not going swimmingly for Vlad with the CSTO, Russia's post-Soviet answer to NATO.

Kyrgyzstan cancels Russian-led military drill on its land

My guess is the leaders of these countries look at what is happening in Ukraine and are thinking "there but for the grace of god  . . . ."

 

Even within its own ranks Russia is having a morale problem, whereas a few days ago I came across a vid of two young Ukrani women soldiers singing a song of resistance while they sat in a trench loading their ammo clips.  Meanwhile, the Russian troops are hoping for a border to escape over.

 

 

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by bendejo

Putin has now blamed the Ukranian Security forces or Terrorists as he called them for blowing up the Bridge to Crimea.  I am sure he will use this as more fodder to try and dispatch a low yield tactical nuke.  He is also preparing his people for the event.

https://newscinema.in/putin-preparing-to-make-nuclear-war-decision-says-kremlin-insiders

On 10/9/2022 at 7:35 PM, billd766 said:

Have you thought about how those countries became members of the Warsaw Pact originally?

 

A clue would be that Russia invaded and annexed those countries during the course of WW2.

 

When the Warsaw Pact finally collapsed those countries were free to choose their own course, and there was NO Russian military stationed in the country any more to force them to toe the Russian line.

 

Please tell us all how, in your opinion, NATO inched its way towards the east. Did NATO knock on the doors of each former Warsaw pact country and threaten to invade them unless they joined NATO.

 

Perhaps each of the countries individually approached NATO and asked to join NATO?

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm#:~:text=NATO's “open door policy” is,a say in such deliberations.

NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of its founding treaty. Any decision to invite a country to join the Alliance is taken by the North Atlantic Council on the basis of consensus among all Allies. No third country has a say in such deliberations.
NATO’s ongoing enlargement process poses no threat to any country. It is aimed at promoting stability and cooperation, at building a Europe whole and free, united in peace, democracy and common values.

 

You mix Russia with the Soviet Union ........ We're talking today of Russia being led by a Soviet brain

On 10/9/2022 at 6:43 PM, candide said:

The Soviet Union has been dissolved in December 1991.  Russia officially and legally exited the Soviet Union before that, in June 1991 (even before Ukraine in August). 

If promised have been made (this is contested, but never mind), they have not been made to Russia.

Correct, Gorbachev and Shevardnadze operated on behest of the USSR, of which today's Russia was a part ....... This does not invalidate the Treaty of Minsk and the US constitution remains binding despite having quite a few states which joined AFTER 1776 .......

On 10/9/2022 at 6:41 PM, earlinclaifornia said:

You sound exactly like radio Moscow.  I know because I read from "The Duran" (Youtube) everyday about how Russia views the situation. Oh and yes they too claim they have no dog in this fight! LOL

We would have to agree to disagree on this statement .........

On 10/9/2022 at 6:37 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Ukraine , as in independent Country should have the right to align with whomever they like .

  Ukraine wasn't forced to align with NATO and they shouldn't be forces NOT to align with NATO .

   Its really about time that Russia and the West and also China stopped all the hostilities and became acquaintances 

Excellent comment and I could not agree more; while I can follow Putin's thinking though I am certainly in the camp of all those who utterly disapproved his military invasion. Turning down the gas tap on a little by little basis would have driven the message home to Brussels and all those NATO/EU huggers without a single life threatened in Ukraine or elsewhere ......

11 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Correct, Gorbachev and Shevardnadze operated on behest of the USSR, of which today's Russia was a part ....... This does not invalidate the Treaty of Minsk and the US constitution remains binding despite having quite a few states which joined AFTER 1776 .......

That's not how Russia see's the Minsk Agreement though:

 

A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/9/what-is-the-minsk-agreement-and-why-is-it-relevant-now

On 10/15/2022 at 6:45 PM, Bkk Brian said:

That's not how Russia see's the Minsk Agreement though:

 

A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/9/what-is-the-minsk-agreement-and-why-is-it-relevant-now

Every day is school day; I mixed up Minsk I and Minsk II with the following conference on the subject, herewith quoted from an NSA website:
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

6 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Every day is school day; I mixed up Minsk I and Minsk II with the following conference on the subject, herewith quoted from an NSA website:
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Ok but as mentioned:

"A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms."