Russia launches ‘kamikaze’ drone attack on Kyiv, killing 4 and hitting civilian infrastructure

[Scott]

 

Ukrainian officials said at least four people were killed when Russia launched a barrage of Iranian-made “kamikaze” drone attacks in Kyiv on Monday, setting off warning sirens across the capital.

Four people were injured in the attacks and 19 people trapped under the destruction have been rescued, according to Kyrylo Tymoshenko, a senior official working for Ukraine’s president.

The strikes on Kyiv appear to be part of a wider assault involving drones and cruise missiles aimed at critical infrastructure, especially power sources.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/17/europe/kyiv-kamikaze-drone-strikes-intl/index.html

 

[Bkk Brian]

U.S. to penalize Iran, third parties for missile sales to Russia

“We’ve been we’ve been very public warning people about coming sales, including the UAV sales since the summer,” the official said. “Iran has just lied about them, and they’re being caught in their lies.”

“Are we going to do more about Iranian military sales to Russia? Absolutely, yes,” the U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. “For anybody in the world who is either selling material to Iran that could be used for [unmanned aerial vehicles] or ballistic missiles, or who is involved in flights between Iran and Russia: Do your due diligence, because we are absolutely going to sanction anybody who’s helping Iranians help Russians kill Ukrainians.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/17/iran-russia-missile-sales-00062075

[Gweiloman]

9 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

U.S. to penalize Iran, third parties for missile sales to Russia

“We’ve been we’ve been very public warning people about coming sales, including the UAV sales since the summer,” the official said. “Iran has just lied about them, and they’re being caught in their lies.”

“Are we going to do more about Iranian military sales to Russia? Absolutely, yes,” the U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. “For anybody in the world who is either selling material to Iran that could be used for [unmanned aerial vehicles] or ballistic missiles, or who is involved in flights between Iran and Russia: Do your due diligence, because we are absolutely going to sanction anybody who’s helping Iranians help Russians kill Ukrainians.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/17/iran-russia-missile-sales-00062075

Since when can the US dictate to Russia as to whether Russia can or cannot purchase weapons from Iran? And what can the US do about it?

[placeholder]

43 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Since when can the US dictate to Russia as to whether Russia can or cannot purchase weapons from Iran? And what can the US do about it?

You should reread the paragraph you commented on to find out what the US can do about it.

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Since when can the US dictate to Russia as to whether Russia can or cannot purchase weapons from Iran? And what can the US do about it?

They can't dictate to them. That's not the point. 

[Jingthing]

Do you think Iran knew (or cared) that Russia's plan was to use their drones to specifically target civilians? Basically TERRORISM. 

[internationalism]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Do you think Iran knew (or cared) that Russia's plan was to use their drones to specifically target civilians? Basically TERRORISM. 

hitting civilian infrastructure doesnt mean targeting civilians.

collateral damage, as americans call it at their each war.

They blow up power sources, power plants.

Each single war, when civilians do die, is terrorism. Tell them to americans and they would reply about spreading democracy 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by internationalism

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, internationalism said:

hitting civilian infrastructure doesnt mean targeting civilians.

collateral damage, as americans call it at their each war.

They blow up power sources, power plants 

 

Follow the news. They are specifically targeting civilians in Kyiv. Basically war crimes. 

[internationalism]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Follow the news. They are specifically targeting civilians in Kyiv. Basically war crimes. 

no, i do not follow news. But from those multiple blows there are 4 dead and 4 injured. That is probably under reporting or those drones are programmed not to kill, but to damage.

too basic thinking - basically terrorism, basically war crimes. Or just wide generalisations also called war propaganda, manipulation

Edited October 18, 2022 by internationalism

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, internationalism said:

no, i do not follow news. But from those multiple blows there are 4 dead and 4 injured. That is probably under reporting or those drones are programmed not to kill, but to damage.

too basic thinking - basically terrorism, basically war crimes. Or just wide generalisations also called war propaganda, manipulation

They're going into densely populated neighborhoods in Kyiv. Not military targets. That is classic terrorism. Russian soldiers aren't motivated. Ukrainians are very motivated. So try to crush the morale of the Ukrainian people. It won't work. So if you don't follow the news, I guess you can just make things up. You lost all credibility suggesting those drones aren't meant to kill. Do you think Putin is a soft touch or something? Look what he's doing to his own people. He is literally a monster. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[Gweiloman]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You should reread the paragraph you commented on to find out what the US can do about it.

Sanctions hahaha. Yup, Europe loving the sanctions and begging for more lol. Apart from the collective west, hardly any other country bothers about sanctions anymore. US hegemony is no more, in case you didn’t know.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

Sanctions hahaha. Yup, Europe loving the sanctions and begging for more lol. Apart from the collective west, hardly any other country bothers about sanctions anymore. US hegemony is no more, in case you didn’t know.

They are slow but they are working to some degree on Russia. Sure beats threatening using nukes.

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They're going into densely populated neighborhoods in Kyiv. Not military targets. So if you don't follow the news, I guess you can just make things up. You lost all credibility suggesting those drones aren't meant to kill. Do you think Putin is a soft touch or something? Look what he's doing to his own people. He is literally a monster. 

Putin is going after valid infrastructure targets such as power plants etc. Unfortunately, there’s some collateral damage as the Americans like to put it. If Putin was indeed targeting civilians, I’m sure the number of dead would be in the hundreds and thousands, not tens.

[Gweiloman]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They are slow but they are working to some degree on Russia. Sure beats threatening using nukes.

Slow working on Russia but incredibly fast working in bringing down the EU lol

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, internationalism said:

no, i do not follow news. But from those multiple blows there are 4 dead and 4 injured. That is probably under reporting or those drones are programmed not to kill, but to damage.

too basic thinking - basically terrorism, basically war crimes. Or just wide generalisations also called war propaganda, manipulation

Destroying civilian power plants and water are war crimes. Not propaganda

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Since when can the US dictate to Russia as to whether Russia can or cannot purchase weapons from Iran? And what can the US do about it?

Lets see, how can Russia dictate to the west not to supply military equipment? Then threaten to target shipments?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Putin is going after valid infrastructure targets such as power plants etc. Unfortunately, there’s some collateral damage as the Americans like to put it. If Putin was indeed targeting civilians, I’m sure the number of dead would be in the hundreds and thousands, not tens.

Over the course of the war it may be that high.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Slow working on Russia but incredibly fast working in bringing down the EU lol

It isn't. 

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lets see, how can Russia dictate to the west not to supply military equipment? Then threaten to target shipments?

Exactly. No one country can dictate to another. Not that it means they won’t try.

[internationalism]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They're going into densely populated neighborhoods in Kyiv. Not military targets. So if you don't follow the news, I guess you can just make things up. You lost all credibility suggesting those drones aren't meant to kill. Do you think Putin is a soft touch or something? Look what he's doing to his own people. He is literally a monster. 

they are targeting energy sources. I  have quoted the title and content.

As a nationalist you seem not to have distance to news you are fed by your government. 

Putin is as much soft touch as biden and all american presidents, all ukrainian prime ministers, all politicians around the whole world. For me they are all criminals and murderers. That's why they were nominated - to follow the murderous governmental systems they are part of.

You are using totalitarian language - basically, literally are hyperboles, huge exaggerations.  Have you used those exaggerations when american presidents were slaughtering civilians at occupied countries. Remember vietnam, cambodia, laos napalm and bobs? or nagasaki and hiroshima? 

Take big breath and one step back - do have stoic distance to mass media war mongering. It's not healthy. 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by internationalism

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Sanctions hahaha. Yup, Europe loving the sanctions and begging for more lol. Apart from the collective west, hardly any other country bothers about sanctions anymore. US hegemony is no more, in case you didn’t know.

Really? Tell that to the Iranians after Trump pulled out of the nuclear agreement. (And please, no discussion of whether he was right to do what he did. I think it was a big mistake.) But the issue you raised is the effectiveness of sanctions. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, internationalism said:

they are targeting energy sources. I  have quoted the title and content.

As a nationalist you seem not to have distance to news you are fed by your government. 

Putin is as much soft touch as biden and all american presidents, all ukrainian prime ministers, all politicians around the whole world. For me they are all criminals and murderers. That's why they were nominated - to follow the murderous governmental systems they are part of.

You are using totalitarian language - basically, literally are hyperboles, huge exaggerations.  

Take big breath and one step back - do have stoic distance to mass media war mongering. It's not healthy. 

 

Weapons of terror. 

Biden didn't invade Ukraine.

Putin did.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

What was the purpose of the sanctions? Did it work? Don’t think so. Iran is part of SCO and will probably be a member of BRICS soon. So much for the effectiveness of your sanctions.

Six charts that show how hard US sanctions have hit Iran

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48119109

 

Here's an update

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/23/these-6-charts-show-how-sanctions-are-crushing-irans-economy.html

 

I can't believe that you have no knowledge of this. Or of the insurrection taking place in Iran now thanks to the poor state of the economy:

 

How Iran’s economic woes created conditions ripe for protests

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63154987

[internationalism]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Weapons of terror. 

 

you are quoting state official, former UK ambassador to belorus. Hardly independent views. He is now working for some international war organisation.

Look at sources of information.

Have you heard about an anti-militarist noam chomsky?  

[Jingthing]

Just now, internationalism said:

you are quoting state official, former UK ambassador to belorus. Hardly independent views. He is now working for some international war organisation.

Look at sources of information.

Have you heard about an anti-militarist noam chomsky?  

Yes I disagree with him vehemently. 

Check out Vlad.Vlexer on that.

Noam is a great linguist. He should stay in his lane.

[placeholder]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

So you support the suffering of millions of people due to sanctions imposed by your government? I thought you were a supporter of human rights. 

And even though I earlier wrote this in reference to the Trump pulling out of the agreement because it was entirely predictable that you would pull the evasive move you ultimately did:

"Really? Tell that to the Iranians after Trump pulled out of the nuclear agreement. (And please, no discussion of whether he was right to do what he did. I think it was a big mistake.) But the issue you raised is the effectiveness of sanctions."

(I put the disclaimer in boldface now for your benefit)

 

Still, you bring it up anyway. Stop trying to deflect. You claimed that sanctions are ineffective.

"Sanctions hahaha. Yup, Europe loving the sanctions and begging for more lol. Apart from the collective west, hardly any other country bothers about sanctions anymore. US hegemony is no more, in case you didn’t know."

Clearly, they are not. You've got nothing.

[placeholder]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Still trying to evade the issue. I see you've given up on trying to claim that sanctions havn'et worked on Iran.

 

As for Russia, as any economist will tell you, if there is only a market to buy stuff from a country, and that country is not allowed to buy in return, the value of it's currency will inevitably rise. It's not proof of economic health but quite the opposite:

 

Russia Privately Warns of Deep and Prolonged Economic Damage
Confidential document contrasts with upbeat public statements

Russia may face a longer and deeper recession as the impact of US and European sanctions spreads, handicapping sectors that the country has relied on for years to power its economy, according to an internal report prepared for the government.

The document, the result of months of work by officials and experts trying to assess the true impact of Russia’s economic isolation due to President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, paints a far more dire picture than officials usually do in their upbeat public pronouncements. Bloomberg viewed a copy of the report, drafted for a closed-door meeting of top officials on Aug. 30. People familiar with the deliberations confirmed its authenticity.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-05/russia-risks-bigger-longer-sanctions-hit-internal-report-warns?leadSource=uverify wall

Edited October 18, 2022 by Scott

[Lacessit]

Putin is trying to weaken the resolve of Europe by making Ukraine a bad choice for foreign investment. Nobody wants to invest in a country that is under a rain of missiles and drones. He doesn't care how many Ukrainian civilians get killed, or how many of his own poorly trained and led troops, with lousy logistics, get killed on the battlefield.

 

IMO it won't be long before the Ukrainians get the go-ahead to target infrastructure inside Russia, although they will probably be more discriminating.

 

Putin is losing, and he knows it. So now it is either a face-saving exit from Ukraine, or being toppled by the hardliners. Possibly ordinary Russians could start a popular revolution; however, most of the best and brightest in Russia have already gone. Simple math says this conflict is ten times worse than Afghanistan.

 

I think the phrase "biting off more than one can chew" is appropriate.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Putin is going after valid infrastructure targets such as power plants etc. Unfortunately, there's some collateral damage as the Americans like to put it. If Putin was indeed targeting civilians, I'm sure the number of dead would be in the hundreds and thousands, not tens.

Where are you getting your information from that these are valid targets?

 

Russia destroys power and water infrastructure across Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-suicide-drones-strike-terror-ukraine-us-warns-war-crimes-2022-10-18/

 

“Damage to key power stations and lines ahead of the upcoming winter raises further concerns for the protection of civilians and in particular the impact on vulnerable populations,” Ravina Shamdasani told reporters at a U.N. briefing in Geneva. “Attacks targeting civilians and objects indispensable to the survival of civilians are prohibited under international humanitarian law.”

https://news.wttw.com/2022/10/11/un-g7-decry-russian-attack-ukraine-possible-war-crime

 

Article 51: Targeting Waters or Water Installations

1. Combatants shall not, for military purposes or as reprisals, destroy or divert waters, or destroy water installations, if such actions would cause disproportionate suffering to civilians.

https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/water-and-armed-conflicts#:~:text=1.,cause disproportionate suffering to civilians.

[Gweiloman]

47 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its also true that even more want to join NATO

 

Ukraine run out of weapons, on your wish list I know but not happening.

All I know is that if Ukraine runs out of weapons, the war would stop. Right or wrong, not for me to say but it’s the truth. Can’t fight without weapons.