Thai Sativa

[oldscool]

Thai sativa is the holy grail for many users, including me since it came my way in 1970.

Ok, so I thought that as this forum is dedicated to “all things related to Cannabis, THC, CBD, hemp and medical marijuana in Thailand” it would be a great idea to dedicate a thread to Thai marijuana and the various landraces to be found here in Thailand.  I’ve received some PMs about this and I know there is a lot of interest in this topic.

But it’s not just a personal tale: Thai sativa has played a leading role in the marijuana world since the 60s, in Europe and North America, not only because of the imports at that time but also because of the numerous hybrids that were developed from Thai sativa in the last few decades.

I’d like this thread to be accessible to new users, so I ask for a bit of tolerance from experienced users who think we’re covering well known ground. I’m sure everyone will learn something from this thread including yours truly.

[oldscool]

Ok first off, let’s look at the native Thai species (landraces). Zomia https://www.zomiacannabisco.com/  have identified 11 Thai landraces, and it’s really worth checking out the photos on Zomia to see what an outdoor grow can look like and to see the different forms of the different Thai strains:

 

Petnaree North Thailand

Tiger Tail North Thailand

Erawan North Thailand

Meun Sri Southern Thailand

Kroeng Krawia Kanchanaburi

Thai Mango Issan

Tanaosiri Petchaburi

Daideng Issan

Foytong Issan

Squirrel Tail Issan

Ko Chang Ko Chang

 

I’ve managed to find and sample about 5 of these via twitter. It’s hard to be precise because local suppliers on twitter obviously write in the Thai language, and often use names that are not exactly the same as those identified by Zomia - it’s not just a case of making a simple translation. But the photos of buds and grows posted by suppliers clearly show different strains.

Then there are some other strains, notably KDKT (KD Koh Tao native to Koh Tao island) which do not appear on the Zomia list, but which are well known within the Thai community and available on twitter.

All of the strains I’ve located and sampled are of the same excellent quality that I enjoyed in the 70s.

By the way, I’m not involved in any way with sales or distribution, so please don’t PM for sales Thanks.

[wombat]

all I know is the Thai stick/Buddha stick that came in cellophane wrapped packages of 80 and 120 sticks that were allegedly with the benefit of hindsight imported into Oz by Terry Clark AKA Mr Asia.
the smell the blocks gave off as they were rehydrated on a stand over steaming water in an electric frypan I would love to recreate.

[leo543]

23 hours ago, oldscool said:

Ok first off, let’s look at the native Thai species (landraces). Zomia https://www.zomiacannabisco.com/  have identified 11 Thai landraces, and it’s really worth checking out the photos on Zomia to see what an outdoor grow can look like and to see the different forms of the different Thai strains:

 

 

 

Petnaree North Thailand

 

Tiger Tail North Thailand

 

Erawan North Thailand

 

Meun Sri Southern Thailand

 

Kroeng Krawia Kanchanaburi

 

Thai Mango Issan

 

Tanaosiri Petchaburi

 

Daideng Issan

 

Foytong Issan

 

Squirrel Tail Issan

 

Ko Chang Ko Chang

 

 

 

I’ve managed to find and sample about 5 of these via twitter. It’s hard to be precise because local suppliers on twitter obviously write in the Thai language, and often use names that are not exactly the same as those identified by Zomia - it’s not just a case of making a simple translation. But the photos of buds and grows posted by suppliers clearly show different strains.

 

Then there are some other strains, notably KDKT (KD Koh Tao native to Koh Tao island) which do not appear on the Zomia list, but which are well known within the Thai community and available on twitter.

 

All of the strains I’ve located and sampled are of the same excellent quality that I enjoyed in the 70s.

 

By the way, I’m not involved in any way with sales or distribution, so please don’t PM for sales Thanks.

 

Hi,

Is thiat the same as Mango Issan?

 

Can't find anything on the internet about this strain.

 

[Peabody]

I am currently doing an indoor grow of Wild Thai, the landrace strain from Ko Chang. 5 different phenotypes. Grown from clones made from mom plants originally from seeds from Serious Seeds. Will knock it back to one pheno after analysing yield, high, flavor, smell, etc.

 

[DumbFalang]

It's fun trying to identify the various Thai strains taking into account the language and cultural barriers.

 

A local near me in Samoeng, Chiang Mai is growing what he refers to as 'the local strain'. The wife is trying to figure out what it might be - maybe I should post some photos in here.

 

The wife's friend gave her a couple of plants yesterday and they call it the hmong strain I think (sounded a bit more like monk as they talked about it). So, it's a 'hill tribe' strain but let's find out what it turns out to be.

[DumbFalang]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, Peabody said:

Will knock it back to one pheno after analysing yield, high, flavor, smell, etc.
 

As a non smoker and someone who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between tobacco and the best weed in the world, I really appreciate information provided by people like yourself. Would love to talk to you again once you have completed your research.

[oldscool]

Today I’d like to say something about Thai sativa yield.

 

The yield of Thai sativa is often misunderstood by tent growers and even master outdoor growers in Europe and North America where conditions are not good for tropical species like Thai sativa.

 

This video says it all. The strain is Kroeng Krawia, one of the landraces in my earlier Zomia reference. It floated into my feed this morning.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0sT7au8zQAdzLC7dPyULf1BkKkCvSK91TwDm1yPBv1HFRo7dDwKUDF56PmJ8yBZDbl&id=100083200937492&eav=AfZlLa6j6tR94ufFqos2E4FprqJ8g0t8GjcJuVdBNtBqcoUmT7ztri3W_ezV9X4N5tI&m_entstream_source=feed_mobile&paipv=0

 

Have a good weekend all.

[Andyvisions]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, Peabody said:

I am currently doing an indoor grow of Wild Thai, the landrace strain from Ko Chang. 5 different phenotypes. Grown from clones made from mom plants originally from seeds from Serious Seeds. Will knock it back to one pheno after analysing yield, high, flavor, smell, etc.

 

sounds awesome.. love your work.. would love to see the end result. 
 

World of Seeds released some Wild Thailand seeds a few years ago.. 100% Sativa Thai Landrace..

 

https://www.budbible.com/strains/wild-thailand/

 

We have profiled the strain on our website (link above) and currently stock it at Big Bud Dispensary in Pattaya.. I’ve attached a pic for you guys.. 

 

 

[Peabody]

On 11/11/2022 at 11:58 AM, DumbFalang said:

As a non smoker and someone who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between tobacco and the best weed in the world, I really appreciate information provided by people like yourself. Would love to talk to you again once you have completed your research.

Wouldn't be possible without the help and encouragement of several other forum members. 

You know who you are.

Thanks.

[oldscool]

How to grow Thai sativa outdoors in Thailand

 

Thailand has the perfect climate for growing Thai sativa. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone, as Thai sativa has adapted over tens or hundreds of thousands of years for this climate, and grows wild here.

 

So, what do you need to grow Thai sativa outdoors?

 

Answer: Seed, Soil and Sun, add water, and apply patience.

 

A machete and pickup are optional.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02nvuDd1tfEmtNVHwWkUGNcp9w1Z97cwkeB8zJxLbJexGXEmAVe3KqyJrQtSauQke1l&id=100083200937492&eav=AfaGLbMvmNkafFvrJd267Si4mo7vyyKTLMB3pJmVbON-yeD8mtsCW8-FBwDouQwd5vs&m_entstream_source=feed_mobile&paipv=0

 

I’ll add to some thoughts about growing Thai sativa outdoors in future posts.

 

Have a good day.

[oldscool]

Large outdoor grows and seeds

 

Today I’d like to say something about large outdoor grows and seeds.

 

Large outdoor crops of native Thai sativa in Thailand can contain many thousands of plants, perhaps 20,000 or even more, covering entire fields or hills. These grows are from regular seeds, not clones or feminized seeds.

 

Pollination is inevitable in grows of this size – that’s the way nature works - it’s essential to maintain the species by the creation of seeds.

 

In practice however not all female plants will be pollinated, and some will be pollinated earlier or later than others, resulting in more or less seeds in their buds.

 

So, when it’s time for harvest, some of the female plants will be seedless*, some will have a small amount of seeds, and some will be rich in seeds**. Male plants are another story of course***.

 

Usually Thai suppliers will sell the seedless buds first, and the most richly seeded last.

 

All of my purchases of marijuana in Thailand are from outdoor growers, I usually ask my suppliers for buds with seeds, and even if their current bud is seedless they are happy to include a pack of seeds from the crop for free.

 

The beauty of this for me is that (1) I can be sure these seeds are fresh (2) the seeds germinate/pop immediately (3) I know the seeds will be perfect for this climate (4) I know exactly the effect of the mj that I grow from the seeds and (5) incidentally, the seeds are free, though this isn’t my main concern or reason for doing so.

 

* I have not used the common term ‘sensimilla’ (Spanish for “seedless”) because there are numerous interpretations of what sensimilla actually means. I am using the original meaning of seedless-flowers-from-a-normal crop, rather than a strain that has been artificially engineered to not produce seeds.

 

** back in the day it was common to find seeds in mj (marijuana), they spit and pop loudly when smoked, so called “hot rats”, so common in fact that Frank Zappa is believed to have borrowed the term for his 1969 album “Hot Rats”, the link to Frank’s youtube video seems to be blocked, but interested readers can easily google it.

 

*** as one or two of the more experienced users on this forum have confirmed from their extensive personal experience, male plants do have benefits other than their role in propagating the species: they can be easily brewed into a tea which has medicinal and/or “recreational” effects. I followed their advice and it works!

 

Wishing everyone a good weekend.

[oldscool]

Thai stick

 

No discussion about Thai sativa is complete without talking about Thai stick, so I thought I’d post this fascinating archival interview with two of the key names from the early days of Thai stick, Mike Ritter & Peter Maguire, who recently published the book

 

“Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade”

 

 

This youtube interview was streamed live on 18 Oct 2020.  Youtube links may be blocked, if so just copy the URL and paste it into you browser.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOa20IYE5Nw

 

I’m sure all of us oldtimers have Thai stick tales, but I don’t really want to derail the thread with lots of personal reminiscences, so suffice to say that Mike and Peter confirm that (1) Thai stick was a packaging method used all over SEAsia at the time, it was not a specific strain, though of course all the strains in SEAsia at that time were native outdoor tropical sativa landraces (which are still available as per my Zomia post earlier), and (2) it wasn’t dipped into anything.

 

I’ll add that although I’m from a different part of the world from them, my experience of the mj industry morphing from hippy/surfer enthusiasts to organized crime (and now into big corporate business) is the same as theirs.

 

It’s a long interview, I hope you enjoy it, cheers.

[bamnutsak]

56 minutes ago, oldscool said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOa20IYE5Nw

 

I’m sure all of us oldtimers have Thai stick tales

Interesting video, but it certainly doesn't paint Thai cannabis in a good light.

 

"People would just wrap junk on a stick" is what Mike Ritter calls "Thai stick". Ouch.

 

Interesting that very little cannabis made it's way from Thailand to the U.S., with most product coming from Columbia and Mexico. Both countries are famous for pure sativa strains.

 

 

 

 

[oldscool]

There is one other thing I’d add to Mike Ritter’s eye-witness testimony. His experience seems to have been focused on Issan, to the exclusion of Nth Thailand, Central Thailand and the islands.

 

But later research, eg by Zomia who I referenced in an earlier post, shows that different Thai landraces also have a history in those other regions of Thailand. I’ve tracked half a dozen of them mainly through twitter using Thai script searches which I've posted a couple of times in other threads, and I've reviewed their effects in other threads too. All the strains I've tried have the same excellent quality as the Thai stick that I enjoyed through the 70s.

 

Contrary to some opinion, the strains have not been lost. How could they have been - they've been grown continuously in the same regions, despite numerous crackdowns over the years.

 

Have a good weekend all.

[Peabody]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:04 AM, Andyvisions said:

sounds awesome.. love your work.. would love to see the end result. 
 

World of Seeds released some Wild Thailand seeds a few years ago.. 100% Sativa Thai Landrace..

 

https://www.budbible.com/strains/wild-thailand/

 

We have profiled the strain on our website (link above) and currently stock it at Big Bud Dispensary in Pattaya.. I’ve attached a pic for you guys.. 

 

 

Getting close. Wild Thailand 

[rice555]

The plant is from Phimai twice a month market.

It's about 7.5' tall. Lower branches  started to bud

about 3 weeks ago.

I repotted the plant into coir and is on Hydro Nute's.

Put off putting in a larger fabric bag, as I didn't want

to wast time and coir if it was a male. Re-bagged a

few days days ago.

rice555

[oldscool]

4 Questions 1 Answer

 

Question 1. Why is Thai sativa so lanky?

Question 2. Why are Thai sativa buds so airy?

Question 3. Why are Thai sativa leaves so narrow?

Question 4. Why is Thai sativa intermodal spacing so big (the distance been nodes/branch pairs).

 

Answer: Humidity.

 

Thai sativa has evolved and adapted over 10s or 100s of thousands of years for this hot humid climate. The overall airiness of the plant is a natural defence against humidity. This is useful for drying as well as growing (see clip below). In addition, the native landraces often have a piney fragrance that is said to repel pests.

 

Kroeng Krawia has the airiest buds of all the Thai landrace sativas, as can be seen in the clip.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02eAy1wMBGkNJzomVMWZa4hZEzLXNM11BnPwgBybVM2fEBXPVEmtQnHFL7smsVbjr8l&id=100083200937492&eav=AfYIya1AUZmeZ_4bZUGMeD7Tkt4iyzYeysSfdMhu1ghqkEPA99h5IEYeHBC3UyLec7w&m_entstream_source=feed_mobile&paipv=0

 

PS For any outdoor growers (of Thai sativas or any other strains) I’d recommend neem oil mixed with water - it protects agains pests and fungus/rot. All the organic farmers in my area use neem for all sorts of crops. The neem tree is native to Thailand and the oil is widely available on lazada.

[rice555]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:45 AM, oldscool said:

 

 

PS For any outdoor growers (of Thai sativas or any other strains) I’d recommend neem oil mixed with water - it protects agains pests and fungus/rot. All the organic farmers in my area use neem for all sorts of crops. The neem tree is native to Thailand and the oil is widely available on lazada.

We have 5 neem trees, the bigger tree is a tamarind. You can alway's make the low grade oil with leaves, but it's a challenge to get the berry to get the seed to make the best neem oil.

The flowers and up on the dinner table.  The last two pic's I lifted from google.

rice555 

 

 

 

 

[tomster]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, Peabody said:

I am currently doing an indoor grow of Wild Thai, the landrace strain from Ko Chang. 5 different phenotypes. Grown from clones made from mom plants originally from seeds from Serious Seeds. Will knock it back to one pheno after analysing yield, high, flavor, smell, etc.

 

@Peabody - how did the Wild Thailand turn out in the end?

I have some of the same seeds and thinking about giving them a go in a greenhouse.

[Peabody]

12 hours ago, tomster said:

how did the Wild Thailand turn out in the end?

I have some of the same seeds and thinking about giving them a go in a greenhouse.

Nice dreamy potency, Overall 9/10, flavor 7-8/10 on the 5 different cultivars I grew. I currently have several clones of the best (to me) phenotype.

[bamnutsak]

6 hours ago, Peabody said:

Nice dreamy potency, Overall 9/10, flavor 7-8/10 on the 5 different cultivars I grew. I currently have several clones of the best (to me) phenotype.

Do you have any other photos (thanks for that one above from Nov 30 post - looks super frosty) which show the overall structure of the plant, especially nearing harvest? About how long from seed to harvest? Outdoor or indoor? Thanks.

[Issanman]

I lived in a rented house outside of Udon Thani in the mid 70s. We were buying Thai sticks wrapped in newspaper, 3 layers of 7 sticks per bundle. 

21 sticks for 20 baht or $1. 

I found a couple of pictures from back then.

 

Back to the present day, I recently bought a very fresh batch of NKP red string from a distributors house on the Mekong river in NKP. I had lived near that area for years (now living in Phuket) and have some good friends there that pointed me in the right direction during a road trip we recently took up there.

This is the best brick weed I have sampled since forever. The very clean and clear quality of the high is far better than any of the old brown brick weed from the past and made me think of the old Thai stick days. The smell is also very similar to the original Thai stick weed, as I remember it.

Where I am staying now in Phuket, I can walk to 5 or 10 different weed shops in a few minutes. Seems like a new shop opens every day. But they will no longer be seeing my face in any of those shops. The weed they are selling looks very nice, but costs hundreds of times more per gram than the 3.3฿ per gram that I paid for my NKP brick weed. And there is very little difference in the strength. I still have some of the megabuck weed that I bought before our road trip to compare it to directly.  

Happy days are here again. "Highly" recommended.

Non-believers need not respond.

 

[SoilSpoil]

Buying Sativas such as KTD and Squirrel Tail for about 800 baht per 100 grams and make oil out of it. Super mellow and subtle high, slow onset and absolutely no groggy feeling in the morning. Better than sleeping meds.

[Cult of the Sun]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:58 PM, DumbFalang said:

As a non smoker and someone who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between tobacco and the best weed in the world, I really appreciate information provided by people like yourself. Would love to talk to you again once you have completed your research.

I don't smoke anything either. I can bake the heck out of some MJ though (choc chip cookies).  The high takes longer to kick in & lasts longer and one can skip all the hacking..

Edited March 26, 2023 by Cult of the Sun

[rice555]

Two Thai from seed, the shorter was to a

family member.

The final plant buds cut was 2,734.79g.

The dried buds was 808.61g.

rice555

[oldscool]

Coming from big a cities background I've never tried growing anything before, so I was pleasanly unsurprised at how easy it is to grow native sativas outdoors here in Thailand.

 

There are about 30 plants in the pic, including some green crack, all second generation grown from seeds I bred myself in the last year, the tallest is about 6 feet, most in pots and others straight into the ground, plus another 30 seedlings, and some in cure.

 

Earlier this year some of the plants grew to over 3 metres. Here in the north the cold season nights really slow down the growth, so it's not a good time to plant seeds, but well-established plants do well in the cold season.

 

Have a cool yule y'all, and assuming growing is still legal next year, I'd be happy to seed pool with other outdoor organic growers here.

[khunjake]

From our experience, Thai crosses (outdoor) seems to be the best with regard to yield, terps and THC. We have done some experimenting with several thai landrace (namely ST1 and 2) and have been quite disappointed across all 3 metrics. The thai sativa x with like a blue dream or haze has been pretty good though and we have a ton of them going on now for the season. 

[Puwa]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:12 PM, Peabody said:

I am currently doing an indoor grow of Wild Thai, the landrace strain from Ko Chang. 5 different phenotypes. Grown from clones made from mom plants originally from seeds from Serious Seeds. Will knock it back to one pheno after analysing yield, high, flavor, smell, etc.

 

Love this Sativa!

[Burgo1979]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:38 AM, Issanman said:

I lived in a rented house outside of Udon Thani in the mid 70s. We were buying Thai sticks wrapped in newspaper, 3 layers of 7 sticks per bundle. 

21 sticks for 20 baht or $1. 

I found a couple of pictures from back then.

 

Back to the present day, I recently bought a very fresh batch of NKP red string from a distributors house on the Mekong river in NKP. I had lived near that area for years (now living in Phuket) and have some good friends there that pointed me in the right direction during a road trip we recently took up there.

This is the best brick weed I have sampled since forever. The very clean and clear quality of the high is far better than any of the old brown brick weed from the past and made me think of the old Thai stick days. The smell is also very similar to the original Thai stick weed, as I remember it.

Where I am staying now in Phuket, I can walk to 5 or 10 different weed shops in a few minutes. Seems like a new shop opens every day. But they will no longer be seeing my face in any of those shops. The weed they are selling looks very nice, but costs hundreds of times more per gram than the 3.3฿ per gram that I paid for my NKP brick weed. And there is very little difference in the strength. I still have some of the megabuck weed that I bought before our road trip to compare it to directly.  

Happy days are here again. "Highly" recommended.

Non-believers need not respond.

 

do you have a link to supplier please?