Help. Chanote has 3 plots on it. Why?

[JeffersLos]

 

The 3 plots have houses on them. 

 

The house on the middle plot is for sale.

 

The Chanote has 3 plots, the house for sale and the 2 neighboring plots with houses on them. Why?

 

 

Was it one larger plot that was divided into three? Wouldn't they each be given a new chanote for the those new plots of land, and a new chanote be given for the middle property?

 

 

 

This shows the owners of the three plots? Or the previous owners of the middle plot?

 

If it is for the three plots, why are they on one chanote and not separate chanotes?

 

If a new person buys the middle plot and they are added to this chanote, they own the land of this middle plot?

 

I've never seen a chanote with three plots shown together.

 

TIA. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

We have this in our family.

 

The parents left the plot to each of 3 children. There is only one chanote but NOTHING can be done with approval/agreement of the other two.

You can get in split into 3 separate plots  but there is a cost involved and they all have to agree and sign.

 

Thats my experience.

[JeffersLos]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

We have this in our family.

 

The parents left the plot to each of 3 children. There is only one chanote but NOTHING can be done with approval/agreement of the other two.

You can get in split into 3 but there is a cost involved and they all have to agree and sign.

 

Thats my experience.

Thanks, a Thai I spoke to quickly about it said that their family has similar. Their grandmother left land to the adult children that was divided between them. That's as far as the conversation went. 

 

 

 

If the owner of the middle plot has the chanote, it means that the 2 owners either side only have copies of the chanote and not the genuine one?

 

All three plots are legally owned by the different people?

 

The all important question is: Does buying the middle house and having the Thai's name on this Chanote mean that they own that middle plot of land 100% and there can be no ownership issues down the line about it? 

[Crossy]

To be safe I would check just how much it would cost to split the chanote, then everyone has their own and there can be no disputes.

 

[Crossy]

I would also be looking carefully at that long thin bit on the right which I'm assuming is an access road.

 

You would need easements in place in order that no owner could block any of the others from accessing their plot.

 

Take care Will Robinson!

[CharlieH]

18 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Thanks, a Thai I spoke to quickly about it said that their family has similar. Their grandmother left land to the adult children that was divided between them. That's as far as the conversation went. 

 

 

 

If the owner of the middle plot has the chanote, it means that the 2 owners either side only have copies of the chanote and not the genuine one?

 

All three plots are legally owned by the different people?

 

The all important question is: Does buying the middle house and having the Thai's name on this Chanote mean that they own that middle plot of land 100% and there can be no ownership issues down the line about it? 

My advice would be to get them separated or walk away !

 

The cost is around 6k from memory.

But you need ALL 3 to agree and sign.In our case a financial inducement was needed for themm to agree and sign, typical Thai way ????

 

Thats my understancing.

[Goat]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

To be safe I would check just how much it would cost to split the chanote, then everyone has their own and there can be no disputes.

 

chanote is split already.

this chanote is only for 45 TW

Last owner change her name. divorce.

No problem

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, Goat said:

chanote is split already.

this chanote is only for 45 TW

Last owner change her name. divorce.

No problem

 

Thanks.

 

I assume therefore that the other two owners will have essentially identical documents detailing their own plots.

 

When it comes to land deals here, I worry about anything that looks a little unusual, there's often a back-story and things can and do turn nasty.

[Goat]

easy to check.

enter province, amphue and chanote number 

or

search it same google earth for the land

 

has english. click EN

 

https://landsmaps.dol.go.th/

[JeffersLos]

9 minutes ago, Goat said:

chanote is split already.

 

No problem

So when a buyer has their name added to that middle plot on this chanote, they own that plot 100% without any possible ownership issues later on? 

 

And the new owner keeps this chanote, and the 2 neighbors don't hold any chanote, only copies of it?

 

TIA. 

[Adumbration]

Lots of chanotes around like this.  Two reasons.  First is that plots are often handed down and split up for the kids.  Second is that they sometime do not request seperate chanotes because they are tight fisted and also assume the land will remain in the family for ever.

 

What you do need to check closely is that the four digit number on each of the whooa chanote (cement pegs) is the same as the number printed on the chanote.

 

It also looks like there is some kind of easement across the front (or it might be the back) of the block you want to buy.  Best check that out in detail also.

 

Also take care to note that most land offices have a long wait time for issuing chanotes, pegging, or checking, boundaries....think 6 months or more.  You might be able to arrange express service with a bribe.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Adumbration

[JeffersLos]

17 minutes ago, Goat said:

easy to check.

enter province, amphue and chanote number 

or

search it same google earth for the land

 

has english. click EN

 

https://landsmaps.dol.go.th/

That is excellent. 

 

It immediately shows all the land plots held by chanotes, and the 3 properties separated by red boxes as three different properties.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Just the question, do the owners of the other 2 plots also have chanotes in their possession, or this is the only official copy and they only have copies?

 

 

[JeffersLos]

1 minute ago, Adumbration said:

It also looks like there is some kind of easement across the front (or it might be the back) of the block you want to buy.  Best check that out in detail also.

Yes, the access lane from the main road.

 

On the government land website checker, it doesn't have a break in the red boxes for this. It has the eight plots that form this area connected as 8 boxes, with the access lane between them, but no break in the red boxes to show the lane is separate from the chanote plots.  

[Adumbration]

4 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Yes, the access lane from the main road.

 

On the government land website checker, it doesn't have a break in the red boxes for this. It has the eight plots that form this area connected as 8 boxes, with the access lane between them, but no break in the red boxes to show the lane is separate from the chanote plots.  

You need to check that very very carefully.  It is sometimes the case (especially up north) where blocks are issued with chanote even though they are entirely internal (surrounded by other properties).  Was not an issue back when the plot was rice or sugarcane field....and the neighbouring plots were in the family anyway...but obviously a problem if land now used for housing and the house you intend to buy does not front onto a government road.

 

[Goat]

28 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

So when a buyer has their name added to that middle plot on this chanote, they own that plot 100% without any possible ownership issues later on? 

correct

 

28 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

 

And the new owner keeps this chanote,

 

 

yes

28 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

 

 

and the 2 neighbors don't hold any chanote, only copies of it?

 

TIA. 

no.

the neighbors have chanote with different chanote number.

same as landmaps will show it.

if you click neighbors land it will show there chanote number, how big etc etc

easy to check.

[JeffersLos]

3 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

  Was not an issue back when the plot was rice or sugarcane field....and the neighbouring plots were in the family anyway...but obviously a problem if land now used for housing and the house you intend to buy does not front onto a government road.

In a worst case scenario of say the owners of the front chanotes walling up the access lane. ???? Is there a right of passage law or similar in Thailand where access to a person's property cannot be blocked etc?

[Adumbration]

14 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

In a worst case scenario of say the owners of the front chanotes walling up the access lane. ???? Is there a right of passage law or similar in Thailand where access to a person's property cannot be blocked etc?

You have obviously never lived in Phuket.  Try visiting a beach there that is walled up using the right of passage card and see how far you get.

 

Yes.  They could wall you in.  You might be able to prove an easement has existed there for years but that is mostly in cases of sor bor kor and other property titles down the hierarchy from Chanote.  Expect significant court costs and year of wasted time if you need to go down that route.

 

That is one of the touted benefits of Chanote.  Someone cannot take over you land by squatting...even if it is for years....not the case with other forms of title.

 

Oh....and what access lane are you referring to?  You just said in a previous post that it does not show up on the online land title map.

 

Be especially careful here if you are buying the property from a family member and the adjoining two properties are still in the family.  There might be bad blood with the outgoing vendor and so they could well spite you and block access.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Adumbration

[JeffersLos]

41 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

what access lane are you referring to?

There are 7 chanotes with property in the parcel. The front two are next to the main road (Soi 3/1).

 

Between these two front properties there is an unpaved, unnamed lane way (no sign with a soi number on it) that enters the parcel, that is maybe 50 meters long. It then opens up and the 5 other properties are around that area. 

 

One of the front properties has a wall along the side of the lane way, the other front property has it at the front of their yard at the front of their house.

 

This 50 meter laneway is the only access the other 5 properties have to a road. 

 

The chanote map just has a block of the 7 chanote properties, the laneway and the open area at the end of it don't exist on the chanote map. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by JeffersLos

[Goat]

1 hour ago, JeffersLos said:

In a worst case scenario of say the owners of the front chanotes walling up the access lane. ???? Is there a right of passage law or similar in Thailand where access to a person's property cannot be blocked etc?

yes, called parajumyom ภาระจำยอม

it show on back of chanote. your chanote not have.

so, tell the seller you will buy only after they have parajumyom on the back. the land office do it.

if not have you not buy.

 

some is just for driving the road. but better for you including road, electricity, water, phone, drain also.

and try for 6 meters wide or more.

 

good luck.

[Adumbration]

OP in MHO there is too much hair on this property and I would walk from the deal.

 

Buyer's market at the moment and lots of other stuff for sale.

 

Of course maybe it is your Thai GF that is persuading you to buy it.  If that is the case then RUN AWAY don't walk.

 

And if your GF is related to the Vendor or the owners of the neighbouring properties...pre book an UBER to leave as quickly as possible.

 

I should add that I am in no way against acquiring Thai property.  It is just not worth wasting time on stuff that has snags attached, and especially in the current market.

[JeffersLos]

3 hours ago, Goat said:

yes, called parajumyom ภาระจำยอม

it show on back of chanote. your chanote not have.

Just saw this on the bottom of the chanote map, regarding the entrance laneway. 

 

แบ่งหักเป็นทางสาธารณะประโยชน์

 

 

Which roughly translates as separated for public use.

 

The issue of 3 properties being shown on one chanote and whether the entrance lane is public or private have now been resolved and they're all above board. Thanks for the informative answers and information. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by JeffersLos

[indyo]

I have the same, the other 2 plot have been sold, your plot is what remains about the original land when was separated.