5W 12V IP65 Waterproof RGB LED Lights with Remote Control for Fountain - wiring question

[Encid]

I recently ordered and received today a set of 4 x 12V LED lights to replace my aging, rusting, and no longer waterproof 12V Halogen lights for our waterfall.

 

The trouble is... the new lights have 3 wires.

 

The wire colours are blue, brown, and yellow with a green stripe.

 

My limited knowledge of 12C DC lighting is that there should be a positive and a negative wire... so what the third wire is for I have no idea. On a 220V AC lighting system the third wire would be used for earthing, but is this required for a 12V DC system?

 

Can anyone please explain how to correctly wire these up?

 

[Woof999]

I would endeavour:

 

Brown = +ve

Blue = -ve

Yellow / Green = earth (connected to the metal housing)

 

The yellow one you can test easily with a ohm meter.

[OneMoreFarang]

Look in the manual, or on the website!

 

Some LEDs are sold with a tile like "12V", but they should be connected to 220V AC and then internally that is converted to 12V.

[bluejets]

As above.,.show a link to where you bought it. I'd bet a dime to a dollar it's220V ac input...which you do not want in the designated pool area.

[Encid]

I bought them from LumiParty on Lazada...

 

The wires do not look thick enough to carry 220V, and they didn't come with a manual.

 

[Woof999]

The listing notes specifically say it's 12vDC input, but there again they also reference both IP65 and IP68.

 

Are the lights multicolour and auto-changing? If so, perhaps the 3rd lead is for sync.

 

For the sake of 148 baht, I'd connect a 12v DC supply to brown (+) and blue (-) first.

[SomchaiDIY]

many chinese led factory use same cable for all voltage range

 

seller info show input = 12v

 

seller has no info about dc or ac

 

many led circuit for outside light allow 12v ac or dc

 

possible if dc only brown = + blue = - green/yellow ground to metal body

 

 

seller info snip

 

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, Encid said:

I bought them from LumiParty on Lazada...

 

The wires do not look thick enough to carry 220V, and they didn't come with a manual.

 

There are several pictures on the left. I suggest scroll through the pictures.

They also show a remote control. Is that included?

You could also use the chat function.

 

In general, I wouldn't trust anything electric if not even the very basic information are included with the product. 

[carlyai]

Do you have a pictute of your previous lighting setup? The position of the light and the power feed to the light.

[Crossy]

I would try it on 12V DC with + on the brown - on the blue.

 

If you have a meter check if the green/yellow goes to the metal case.

 

What do you intend powering the beasts with?

[sometimewoodworker]

12 hours ago, Encid said:

My limited knowledge of 12C DC lighting is that there should be a positive and a negative wire... so what the third wire is for I have no idea. On a 220V AC lighting system the third wire would be used for earthing, but is this required for a 12V DC system?

Why would you not run an earth to any equipment, specially out doors, no matter what the voltage, AC or DC?

Edited November 26, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

All good suggestions and questions everyone... much appreciated.

 

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

What do you intend powering the beasts with?

The existing 12V DC halogen lamps are fed by twin wire cables that come from a 240V AC/12V DC transformer inside the pump room.

There is no third wire in the feed cables.

The cables themselves are buried inside the concrete and tile waterfall structure, so running an additional earth wire for each lamp would be unsightly as there is no way they could be buried inside the structure.

 

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They also show a remote control. Is that included?

Yes... each lamp comes with it's own remote control unit.

Apparently you can set them up for a number of different colour ranges, or cycling multicolour if you want.

My plan was to set them all up for warm white using the remotes, then just turn them on/off from the switch in the pump house, as I do now with the halogen lamps.

 

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You could also use the chat function.

I have initiated contact, however their factory is closed until 1 December, which is why I am seeking advice here.

 

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Why would you not run an earth to any equipment, specially out doors, no matter what the voltage, AC or DC?

Because the current halogen lamps I have currently do not have an earth cable.

The lamps are mounted on a waterfall... not easy to access and above the waterline but they do get the occasional splashing when it is turned on, and of course they are subjected to rainfall.

Why would I need to run an earth?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Encid said:

Why would I need to run an earth?

 

You probably don't need to assuming your source is suitably isolated, in this case the earth lead from the lamps should just be insulated where you join to the existing cables.

 

How do you intend making your joints?

 

Test your lamps easily using your car or M/C battery as a source ???? 

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, Encid said:

Why would I need to run an earth?

As it’s a retrofit I wouldn’t, but as a new installation I would.

[Encid]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

You probably don't need to assuming your source is suitably isolated, in this case the earth lead from the lamps should just be insulated where you join to the existing cables.

 

How do you intend making your joints?

 

Test your lamps easily using your car or M/C battery as a source ???? 

That's a great idea Crossy... thanks!

I didn't think of using the car.

 

Yes I am pretty sure that the electricity source is suitably isolated and earthed, as it was done by a professional pool company and it also powers 2 x 1.5 HP pumps... one for circulating/filtering the pool water and the other for the waterfall.

 

The existing lamps wiring was simply twisted together with the feed wires and then taped up with electrical tape... your know, they typical Thai leccy way. 

The joints have lasted 15 years so far, so I don't think there's a need for waterproof junction boxes for the new joints.

I was planning to use electrical cable connectors like these, then seal them all up with 3M Scotch Super 33+ electrical tape, then another layer of standard black vinyl electrical tape... to be sure, to be sure.

 

Thoughts?

[Crossy]

Personally, I'd twist and solder then add adhesive-lined heatshrink tube.

 

Those barrel connectors rust out rather faster than I like, you're probably better just twisting the wires then using good quality insulating tape as you suggest.

[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, Encid said:

I was planning to use electrical cable connectors like these, then seal them all up with 3M Scotch Super 33+ electrical tape, then another layer of standard black vinyl electrical tape... to be sure, to be sure.

 

Thoughts?

Yes forget the 2 kinds of tape and substitute them with this. It is as close to waterproof as you can get. Also use dielectric grease to seal the screws 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Personally, I'd twist and solder then add adhesive-lined heatshrink tube.

 

Those barrel connectors rust out rather faster than I like, you're probably better just twisting the wires then using good quality insulating tape as you suggest.

For low voltage low current that will also work and be easier than the dielectric grease and seal tape.

[Encid]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Also use dielectric grease to seal the screws 

Thanks for that suggestion... I didn't know that such an animal existed.

I will get some for all of our external light bulbs (now LED).

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, Encid said:

Thanks for that suggestion... I didn't know that such an animal existed.

I will get some for all of our external light bulbs (now LED).

It’s interesting the tips you can get from automotive repair videos, but don’t forget the seal tape as the dielectric grease by itself is probably not sufficient, but the grease stops the problems with electrical tracking and the tape keeps the grease in.

Edited November 26, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[carlyai]

The reason I asked for a picture was for all to see if you should worry about the way the lights are fed from the power.

Now you mention a Pool company wired the lights and you are using a transformer. The transformers I've seen that pool companies in Thailand use are just a bare, cheap and nasty transformer, not an expensive fused and double insulated type.

Maybe all is fine. ????

[Encid]

7 hours ago, Crossy said:

I would try it on 12V DC with + on the brown - on the blue.

I had just finished rigging this up with some spare 2 x 1.5 sq.mm cable I had and was about to test when the missus announced that she was going to the salon to get her hair and nails done... so the car is gone!

 

<deleted>!

 

I'll have to wait a few hours more... 

[Encid]

5 minutes ago, carlyai said:

The reason I asked for a picture was for all to see if you should worry about the way the lights are fed from the power.

Now you mention a Pool company wired the lights and you are using a transformer. The transformers I've seen that pool companies in Thailand use are just a bare, cheap and nasty transformer, not an expensive fused and double insulated type.

Maybe all is fine. ????

I'd take a photo but it is hissing down rain at present with accompanying sound and light show!

[carlyai]

1 minute ago, Encid said:

I'd take a photo but it is hissing down rain at present with accompanying sound and light show!

We got that last night. Lots of rice still not gathered. Bit sad but we snuck in.

[carlyai]

This is what my 'in pool' lights transformer looks like.

[Encid]

14 minutes ago, carlyai said:

We got that last night. Lots of rice still not gathered. Bit sad but we snuck in.

Yeah... my in-laws are in the same boat.

I think FIL is regretting donating so much of his rice farming land to us for use as fill... his rice is still underwater so machine harvesting is not possible.

[Encid]

19 minutes ago, Encid said:

I had just finished rigging this up with some spare 2 x 1.5 sq.mm cable I had and was about to test when the missus announced that she was going to the salon to get her hair and nails done... so the car is gone!

 

<deleted>!

 

I'll have to wait a few hours more... 

And here is my light rig ready for testing...

 

 

And here is the remote control unit... one for each light.

Looks like quite an array of features and combinations... 

 

[Encid]

There was a break in the storm so I dashed outside to photograph the transformers in the pool pump house.

 

There are 5 underwater LED lights in the pool and there are 4 (currently halogen) lights on the waterfall.

All the lights are controlled by a single on/off switch, as is the waterfall pump.

The main pool circulating/filtration pump is controlled by a timer with a manual override.

 

This is the transformer box:

 

 

And this is the timer/pump control box:

 

 

 

[carlyai]

33 minutes ago, Encid said:

There was a break in the storm so I dashed outside to photograph the transformers in the pool pump house.

 

There are 5 underwater LED lights in the pool and there are 4 (currently halogen) lights on the waterfall.

All the lights are controlled by a single on/off switch, as is the waterfall pump.

The main pool circulating/filtration pump is controlled by a timer with a manual override.

 

This is the transformer box:

 

 

And this is the timer/pump control box:

 

 

 

Transformers look visually a lot more robust than others I have seen. Probably all good. ????

All you want to do is get the new waterfall lights working, so I'll but out and let the exAperts comment. 

When you finish the installation can you share how the waterfall looks with the lights on? I've got a waterfall but no lights. ????

[Encid]

13 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Transformers look visually a lot more robust than others I have seen. Probably all good. ????

All you want to do is get the new waterfall lights working, so I'll but out and let the exAperts comment. 

When you finish the installation can you share how the waterfall looks with the lights on? I've got a waterfall but no lights. ????

Will do. 

 

The old halogen lights really looked good, but after 15 years they are no longer waterproof and replacements are around 1,600 baht each.

That's why I thought that using low-cost LED is cost-efficient solution, and also provide some colour and effects options.