UK Military : "Its just not right" !

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You think soldiers are not human, don't have families, don't need a break like everyone else?

What , like they should just work/fight in a battle  for a maximum of 9 hours a day and get an hours lunch break and given hotel accommodation in which ever Country they are fighting in and have one day off per week and just fight half day  Saturdays mornings ? 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The RCN has around 465,000 members.

The bill per member for first class leadership is a little under 20p per month.

 

 

First class leadership??????????????????

You have some evidence for that?

 

When I was a member paying their salaries they were IMO completely useless. The union that did nothing to benefit their membership.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What , like they should just work/fight in a battle  for a maximum of 9 hours a day and get an hours lunch break and given hotel accommodation in which ever Country they are fighting in and have one day off per week and just fight half day  Saturdays mornings ? 

What has any of that got to do with having a break with families at Christmas?

Were you ever in the military? I was.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

What has any of that got to do with having a break with families at Christmas?

Were you ever in the military? I was.

The Military are not treated like other professions  and normal employment rules don't apply to them and they go to where they are told to go and they don't get Christmas off 

[thaibeachlovers]

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Military are not treated like other professions  and normal employment rules don't apply to them and they go to where they are told to go and they don't get Christmas off 

LOL. Obviously not been in the military. They do get Christmas off if not on active service.

I used to volunteer to do sentry duty while most on Christmas leave, so I could go skiing in the winter when I got the same time off.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Obviously not been in the military. They do get Christmas off if not on active service.

Point being that if they are required to work and fill in for the people striking, they wont get time off for Christmas

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Point being that if they are required to work and fill in for the people striking, they wont get time off for Christmas

Yes you are correct on that which is why the OP has this

 

Senior military personnel have told ministers that soldiers should not be made to give up Christmas to cover workers who will be striking this December.

 

Why should soldiers be required to give up their Christmas break because the government has stuffed everything up?

A small part of the military to staff ambulances and fire services yes ( and they get the time off later ), but shouldn't be all. Soldiers can't be nurses or teachers etc.

[Mac Mickmanus]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes you are correct on that which is why the OP has this

 

Senior military personnel have told ministers that soldiers should not be made to give up Christmas to cover workers who will be striking this December.

 

Why should soldiers be required to give up their Christmas break because the government has stuffed everything up?

A small part of the military to staff ambulances and fire services yes ( and they get the time off later ), but shouldn't be all. Soldiers can't be nurses or teachers etc.

Its not as if the soldiers have had a busy year is it ?

First time this year that they have to do any work and they want a holiday !!!!!!

   A year sitting in the barracks doing nothing  and when asked to do something, they want to go home for a holiday

[ChrisP24]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its not as if the soldiers have had a busy year is it ?

First time this year that they have to do any work and they want a holiday !!!!!!

   A year sitting in the barracks doing nothing  and when asked to do something, they want to go home for a holiday

With due respect, soldiers in modern armies don't just sit in the barracks waiting for war to break out.  They train, and the training is hard and as realistic as possible.  It is a hard life with long days when in garrison, and longer days (and nights) when on group field exercises or in individual specialty schools.  Add to that the separation from families, frequent moves and deployments, other uncertainties that place long-term planning factors outside of their control to a degree that civilians don't have to deal with.  And the risk of deployment to a combat zone.  All with relatively low pay, less than many of them could earn in the civilian world, especially those who have advanced in rank (the pay increases typically don't match what they could achieve outside of the military).  

 

Letting them go home for a holiday to be with family, during a year when we can afford them the time off, is the least we can do for them.

 

Maybe ask for volunteers in exchange for extra pay.  The already low pay and isolation due to already-strained family ties will ensure that enough of them will be willing to sacrifice the holiday for extra pay.   Might even be enough to keep them busy/fulfilled and reduce the suicide rate that normally spikes around the holidays in the military (more so than among the same civilian age group).

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, puchooay said:

By not defining what you class as high salary earners, by refusing to define "wealthy" by chopping and chosing who you back and who you don't, you have undermined nearly every comment you have made and will make on the subject of the UK economy.

Nonsense.

 

You’re once again trying to insert a discussion on the definition of ‘wealthy’ into yet another thread.

 

Workers joining unions and negotiating as a union and taking industrial action to get the best deal they can and maintain some semblance of control over the conditions of their work has nothing to do with your fixation in ‘wealth’.

 

You’ve told us a number of times you feel you are wealthy, good for you.

 

Many British workers feel they cannot continue to put up with their real pay being eroded by  below inflation pay increases, they are doing something about it, good for them.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What , like they should just work/fight in a battle  for a maximum of 9 hours a day and get an hours lunch break and given hotel accommodation in which ever Country they are fighting in and have one day off per week and just fight half day  Saturdays mornings ? 

Arguably the dumbest post I’ve read this year.

 

Moreover it seems to me to be deliberately offensive towards those who serve and have served in the military.

 

 

[MRToMRT]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

it seems to me to be deliberately offensive towards those who serve

Deleted my comment ( as I realised Chomper was just successfully dragging me down to his level of spurious commentary).

 

 

[MRToMRT]

As Mick Lynch's name has come up a few times (I think I may have started that - oops)

 

What Mick gets paid - 84k a year

 

Train drivers current salary - 24k as a trainee - then 49K (average).

 

Whats been offered: Network Rail had offered union members a 5% pay rise for this year – backdated to January – with another 4% at the start of 2023 and a guarantee of no compulsory job losses until January 2025. However, this offer has not been enough to halt the strike action.

 

I will look up the same for Border Control when I get back from my breakfast 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

Deleted my comment ( as I realised Chomper was just successfully dragging me down to his level or spurious commentary).

 

 

I’m not at all sure how I could do such a thing since:

 

A. My comments are not spurious.

 

B. You’ve quoted a response I made to another member.

 

I suggest you focus less on me and more on the topic of discussion.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

As Mick Lynch's name has come up a few times (I think I may have started that - oops)

 

What Mick gets paid - 84k a year

 

Train drivers current salary - 24k as a trainee - then 49K (average).

 

Whats been offered: Network Rail had offered union members a 5% pay rise for this year – backdated to January – with another 4% at the start of 2023 and a guarantee of no compulsory job losses until January 2025. However, this offer has not been enough to halt the strike action.

The offer is a real terms pay cut.

 

Inflation is north of 10%.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/network-rail-boss-salary-strike-pay-b2147576.html

[MRToMRT]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Inflation is north of 10%.

Now it maybe, but it was not the whole of this last year and it will not be next year. You can't really be saying that salaries should be set based on peak rate? Look at the page below, do you think they are struggling to feed themselves.?

 

https://www.netsalarycalculator.co.uk/train-driver-salary/

[Chomper Higgot]

47 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

Now it maybe, but it was not the whole of this last year and it will not be next year. You can't really be saying that salaries should be set based on peak rate? Look at the page below, do you think they are struggling to feed themselves.?

 

https://www.netsalarycalculator.co.uk/train-driver-salary/

I’ll remind you once again, since you introduced it into the discussion, your pension is being raised by 10%.
 

I don’t hear you objecting.

[MRToMRT]

48 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ll remind you once again, since you introduced it into the discussion, your pension is being raised by 10%.
 

I don’t hear you objecting.

So I would get nearly 1000 quid. Thats means that the average train driver should get 5000 quid in your math. Does he pay 5 times more for anything than me? 

 

I give up with you, you have worn me down. 

[puchooay]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nonsense.

 

You’re once again trying to insert a discussion on the definition of ‘wealthy’ into yet another thread.

 

Workers joining unions and negotiating as a union and taking industrial action to get the best deal they can and maintain some semblance of control over the conditions of their work has nothing to do with your fixation in ‘wealth’.

 

You’ve told us a number of times you feel you are wealthy, good for you.

 

Many British workers feel they cannot continue to put up with their real pay being eroded by  below inflation pay increases, they are doing something about it, good for them.

 

Like I said........

[puchooay]

9 hours ago, ChrisP24 said:

With due respect, soldiers in modern armies don't just sit in the barracks waiting for war to break out.  They train, and the training is hard and as realistic as possible.  It is a hard life with long days when in garrison, and longer days (and nights) when on group field exercises or in individual specialty schools.  Add to that the separation from families, frequent moves and deployments, other uncertainties that place long-term planning factors outside of their control to a degree that civilians don't have to deal with.  And the risk of deployment to a combat zone.  All with relatively low pay, less than many of them could earn in the civilian world, especially those who have advanced in rank (the pay increases typically don't match what they could achieve outside of the military).  

I'm sorry, did these people chose their career path? 

 

I font belive there has been call ups or national service for many years now.

[puchooay]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve told us a number of times you feel you are wealthy, good for you.

No, I haven't. 

 

I am doing well. I believe I said I was well off.

 

I started with nothing. I work and manage well. Every asset, pound, penny, baht and satang I own has been accrued by working, managing my finances, not over spending, not buying things just because I have spare money, planning for future rises, calculating mortgage payments a upto 5% more per month before signing on the dotted line and not expecting Government handouts if I f$##ed up.

 

If everyone did that they would not be in the opposition they are now. 

 

No, I can't provide a link as you can't link to common sense.

 

Incidentally, I got a 4% payrise. Did I strike? No, because I understand how economies work. Inflation wasn't as high as it is now for a long time and is unlikely be as high for much longer.

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, puchooay said:

No, I haven't. 

 

I am doing well. I believe I said I was well off.

 

I started with nothing. I work and manage well. Every asset, pound, penny, baht and satang I own has been accrued by working, managing my finances, not over spending, not buying things just because I have spare money, planning for future rises, calculating mortgage payments a upto 5% more per month before signing on the dotted line and not expecting Government handouts if I f$##ed up.

 

If everyone did that they would not be in the opposition they are now. 

 

No, I can't provide a link as you can't link to common sense.

 

Incidentally, I got a 4% payrise. Did I strike? No, because I understand how economies work. Inflation wasn't as high as it is now for a long time and is unlikely be as high for much longer.

 

 

 

 

You accepted a real terms pay cut. 
 

If you are happy with that, good for you.

[puchooay]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You accepted a real terms pay cut. 
 

If you are happy with that, good for you.

I got a pay rise that I believe is fair to me and to the economy of the country.

 

It means that the company I work for does not have to raise their prices to the consumer because the employees asked for a ridiculous amount, thus fuelling inflation.

 

Let's give the rail workers a big rise so we can see the consumers complain about ticket prices rising. Let's give the NHS workers a big rise so we can see tax payers complain that taxes are going up. Let's all suffer just so a few can get ridiculous pay rises. Where on earth is the RCN come up with 19.2% from?

 

Let's give everyone inflationary or above inflation pay rises and the watch inflation continue at the levels it's at.

 

Actually, No. Let's not. Let's grin and bear it, let's ride the storm, let's stop over spending when times are good. Let's take care of our own economic situation just like the moaners are suggesting the government should.

 

Remember those queueing up at the airport going on holiday complaining about delays? Those moaning because their new car they bought on HP or PCP had been delayed because of the chip issues? Those queueing up over night to get the new Iphone? They are the same people that will be complaining they can't pay their  bills in January because they spent so much at Christmas. Reel it in people. Help yourselves instead of expecting others to help.

[Chomper Higgot]

48 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I got a pay rise that I believe is fair to me and to the economy of the country.

 

It means that the company I work for does not have to raise their prices to the consumer because the employees asked for a ridiculous amount, thus fuelling inflation.

 

Let's give the rail workers a big rise so we can see the consumers complain about ticket prices rising. Let's give the NHS workers a big rise so we can see tax payers complain that taxes are going up. Let's all suffer just so a few can get ridiculous pay rises. Where on earth is the RCN come up with 19.2% from?

 

Let's give everyone inflationary or above inflation pay rises and the watch inflation continue at the levels it's at.

 

Actually, No. Let's not. Let's grin and bear it, let's ride the storm, let's stop over spending when times are good. Let's take care of our own economic situation just like the moaners are suggesting the government should.

 

Remember those queueing up at the airport going on holiday complaining about delays? Those moaning because their new car they bought on HP or PCP had been delayed because of the chip issues? Those queueing up over night to get the new Iphone? They are the same people that will be complaining they can't pay their  bills in January because they spent so much at Christmas. Reel it in people. Help yourselves instead of expecting others to help.

Good for you.

 

You got a pay rise you are happy with.

 

Others might not be happy with a similar pay rise and are perfectly entitled to make that judgement by themselves.

 

Your gross pejorative generalizations are once again noted.

[puchooay]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your gross pejorative generalizations are once again noted.

Thanks.

 

As is your refusal to answer straight forward questions for fear of undermining your stance.

[Chomper Higgot]

It looks like the squaddies are going to be spread thin on the ground.

 

Baggage handlers are next up for strike action:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/15/heathrow-strike-ground-handlers-pay-talks-fail

[MRToMRT]

Baggage strike may be off. Menzies made an improved offer.

 

Unite members are being balloted on whether to accept or not.

 

GMB union has accepted already, Unite union going to ballot on decision.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

Baggage strike may be off. Menzies made an improved offer.

 

Unite members are being balloted on whether to accept or not.

 

GMB union has accepted already, Unite union going to ballot on decision.

The power of collective bargaining.