Double glazing for sound reduction in a Bangkok Condo.

[Aussieroaming]

Has anyone got relevant advise in regards to removal of an aluminium 4 panel sliding door system (2 sliders plus 2 fixed) and then  installing a double glazed single sliding door in a Bangkok condo? I assume the frame needs to be replaced so that a new frame can be installed that is suitable for noise reduction. 

 

I have already added new seals around all doors and blocked off whatever gaps I could find which did help with noise but not enough as the existing sliding doors are poor quality in my opinion. 

 

I looked at one company's previous work online and they changed the sliding doors and windows to double glazed but fitted the new double glazed set onto the old existing frame, which I don't agree with though I could be wrong about that.

 

I would sell and leave except my wife likes it at our current address, so I need to rectify the noise issue until I can convince her to sell up and buy elsewhere.

 

I need a company that is competent to supply and install, inclusive of removal of the old sliding door set without compromising on quality of product or installation. I am guessing cost at between 50 to 75k or so, but that is my guess only.

 

Thanks for any advise.

[OneMoreFarang]

The first question should be if your condo allows that you change the glass and/or frames.

It seems some, or maybe many condominiums have rules that owners are not allowed to change things which are visible from outside.

[nigelforbes]

I changed all the single pane glass to double glazed  units in a 150 square meter, 16th floor condo in CM and it did almost nothing to reduce external noise - the units and the glass were from Thai Asahi, professional sourced and installed. The problem is two fold: the first is that sound reduction requires optimally spaced triple glazing, double glazing is only really useful for thermal protection and heat reduction. Fortunately, my primary objective was heat reduction. The second problem is the way sound travels in concrete buildings which often amplify noise.

[Aussieroaming]

5 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

I changed all the single pane glass to double glazed  units in a 150 square meter, 16th floor condo in CM and it did almost nothing to reduce external noise - the units and the glass were from Thai Asahi, professional sourced and installed. The problem is two fold: the first is that sound reduction requires optimally spaced triple glazing, double glazing is only really useful for thermal protection and heat reduction. Fortunately, my primary objective was heat reduction. The second problem is the way sound travels in concrete buildings which often amplify noise.

Thanks, I'll discuss your points with a supplier. Some of the vendors that I have reviewed thus far do advertise a distinction between window glazing design for sound insulation versus that needed only for thermal insulation.

My understanding being that double glazing can be used as long as both panes are different in thickness in order to reduce resonance between panes, the void between panes has to have an inert gas to inhibit sound wave propagation between each pane and the window's upvc frame needs to be insulated from the concrete with sound insulating material in order to stop sound propagation from one material to the other. 

[Aussieroaming]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The first question should be if your condo allows that you change the glass and/or frames.

It seems some, or maybe many condominiums have rules that owners are not allowed to change things which are visible from outside.

Yep, I will discuss it with Juristic before I proceed with any vendor order, thanks.

[proton]

Think its best to have different thicknesses for the glass when looking for sound reduction

[freedomnow]

The trick is to have both panes of glass different thicknesses...it has same sound killing effect as triple glazing more or less..or you could go triple using that trick.

Your wall may also be trassmitting sound though as walls can be shockingly thin here as I found out.

[OneMoreFarang]

Sound isolation depends a lot on the frequencies of that sound.

In general, it is a lot easier to reduce high frequency noise compared to lower frequencies.

And it is almost impossible to reduce real low frequencies.

 

And then there are all those holes in the walls and not filled gaps, etc.

I read some articles and watched some videos about that. One thing that was explained is to make sure there are nowhere any gaps or holes in the walls. Including about the ceiling (but below the concrete).

 

I just renovated my apartment and the contractor seems to be knowable. When I told him about closing all those gaps he thought he and his team did it. And then I pointed out that there were still some small gaps. Now he closed them as well but he told me this was the first time that he did that, or a customer asked him to do that...

 

This is a sample of condition one of those walls to the neighbor's unit before the renovation. It seems that is normal in Thailand (and maybe some other parts of the word.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

Thanks, I'll discuss your points with a supplier. Some of the vendors that I have reviewed thus far do advertise a distinction between window glazing design for sound insulation versus that needed only for thermal insulation.

My understanding being that double glazing can be used as long as both panes are different in thickness in order to reduce resonance between panes, the void between panes has to have an inert gas to inhibit sound wave propagation between each pane and the window's upvc frame needs to be insulated from the concrete with sound insulating material in order to stop sound propagation from one material to the other. 

I have got about a 24db reduction in sound from our windows and doors. Using inert gas does virtually nothing to stop sound, the standard is Argon, it does guarantee that there is no humidity in the IGU, and slightly reduces heat transfer. Using different thicknesses of glass does help though it is not really to stop resonance, it is because each thickness reduces transmission by different frequencies. However neither double nor triple glazed panels do very much by themselves 

Quote

most construction materials, are given an STC (sound transmission class) Rating, which is a numerical representation of any given partition’s ability to reduce sound. Standard single pane glass is around a 27, while dual pane glass can range from 26-32 on average. 

The ways to reduce sound more effectively are to use 1 laminated pane and a thicker than usual second pane

 

for the door under 

The specification was; Inoutic - Window, Laminate LowE G3+1.52PVB+CLowE4 + Ars8 + C5, 21.5 mm Glass:

 

The actual supply was; Laminate C4+1.52PVB+LowEC4+Ars8+C5

 

16 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

I am guessing cost at between 50 to 75k or so, but that is my guess only.

The top is about the cost for a single section of your sliding door, don’t forget to specify toughened glass for the non laminated pane of the IGU

 

FWIW a single door glazing unit is about 50kg without the frame.

Edited December 18, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

12 hours ago, freedomnow said:

The trick is to have both panes of glass different thicknesses...it has same sound killing effect as triple glazing more or less..or you could go triple using that trick.

Triple glazing is not worth the extra price even compared to double glazing with equal thickness.

And as others have already pointed out, a window is a system of different components.

Even tripple glazing will yield marginal results if the rest of of the window is badly designed/built.

Edited December 18, 2022 by unheard

[Aussieroaming]

On 12/18/2022 at 11:07 AM, unheard said:

Triple glazing is not worth the extra price even compared to double glazing with equal thickness.

And as others have already pointed out, a window is a system of different components.

Even tripple glazing will yield marginal results if the rest of of the window is badly designed/built.

Agreed, it seems that the German construction is deemed pretty good.