Last will and testament

[Soapy 100]

My friend is retired and living in Thailand,he needs to make a new will out as the only will he as made was in 1993.

He Has property assets in the UK and wishes to leave some assets to his Thai wife of 15 years.

My friend wishes to know if he gets a solicitor to draw up a new will in Thailand leaving cash or property to his wife 

Question

              If he gets a reputable Thai solicitor to draw up a new will in Thai and English will the will be legal and acceptable 

in England and Thailand

 

 

[nigelforbes]

You need two separate wills, one each for the countries in which you have assets. Each will is separate and must state the territory or country the will pertains to and each will must acknowledge and reference the existence of any other wills. If one will is changed or cancelled, be careful to use the correct wording so that only previous wills for that country are cancelled and not all wills. So wording such as, this is the last will and testament of joe and covers all Joes assets in Thailand and specifically excludes any other assets held under an existing UK will....or similar.

 

A Thai will for a foreigner must be written in English, it can be translated into Thai later for use by Probate Court. The logic here is that foreigners cannot be expected to understand and sign a will written in anything other than their native language.

 

 

[Soapy 100]

Thanks Nigel

                  My friend does not have any assets in Thailand, he wants to leave his Thai wife who lives in Thailand a asset that he owns in England,once again if a will is drawn up in Thailand,by a reputable solicitor is this will  legally binding in the UK

Thank You

[Chomper Higgot]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:39 PM, Soapy 100 said:

Thanks Nigel

                  My friend does not have any assets in Thailand, he wants to leave his Thai wife who lives in Thailand a asset that he owns in England,once again if a will is drawn up in Thailand,by a reputable solicitor is this will  legally binding in the UK

Thank You

Having been an executor to a friend’s Thai and UK wills I strongly recommend your friend engages a UK based lawyer to draught and record a UK will covering his UK assets.

 

I also recommend he appoint two executors, one lead and another standby, these should preferably be people based in the UK.

 

Endure his wife has a a copy of the will, and contact details are shared between his wife and executors.

 

Of no trusted executors are available ask the UK lawyer to appoint one, but this will cost - check prices.

 

Also pay upfront for the will, not a fee based on value at time of execution.

 

Fees for appointed executors may or not be based on value of assets at time of execution, but they will be pricy.

 

On the upside an appointed executor will be very much more certain to be around come the time than friends who might move on.

 

Acting as executor was for me a very fulfilling experience, I had the chance to ensure the wife and child of a dear friend received their rightful inheritance, and importantly ensure they kept it.

 

It did however open a windows into some really disgraceful aspects of people’s motivations.

 

I’m glad I helped my friend out, but I’d think very  carefully before diving into that hornet’s nest again.

 

If in any doubt I recommend your friend pays the fees.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Kwasaki]

The situation is I have never bothered about a Will as I have no assets in UK other than a UK bank account and every vehicle in Thailand I always have in my wife's name.

 

So the only thing that is technically mine in Thailand is the visa extension money because it's in a Thai bank account in my name only which is required by immigration.

 

We have a joint ATM Thai bank account as well in which my UK pension is paid into. 

 

As for my online UK bank account to save my wife aggro I have  given access to my one of my UK sons to take out what money there is on my demise and give to his step Ma. 

 

My questions on my demise. 

 

1. Vehicles no problem my wife can sell. 

 

2. The visa extension money in my name account again to save wife aggro I have changed to a ATM card account so my wife can use the ATM card to get the money out.

 

3. As No. 2 states could my wife get into trouble if she did that, do I need to write a letter giving permission.

 

4. Has the Thai govt have some right to some of that extension money. 

 

5. With the joint ATM account she take what money is left because no more money be paid in once DWP know I have peg it. 

 

5. Will just writing a letter to say and have it witnessed that I give all money and processions to my wife and permission to take all of what's mine enough.

 

Thanks for any help. 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

On 12/23/2022 at 6:41 AM, nigelforbes said:

You need two separate wills, one each for the countries in which you have assets. Each will is separate and must state the territory or country the will pertains to and each will must acknowledge and reference the existence of any other wills. If one will is changed or cancelled, be careful to use the correct wording so that only previous wills for that country are cancelled and not all wills. So wording such as, this is the last will and testament of joe and covers all Joes assets in Thailand and specifically excludes any other assets held under an existing UK will....or similar.

 

A Thai will for a foreigner must be written in English, it can be translated into Thai later for use by Probate Court. The logic here is that foreigners cannot be expected to understand and sign a will written in anything other than their native language.

 

 

I posted this and no response ???? .

My Mrs is nagging me to write a letter maybe she means Will so she doesn't have any trouble in getting money I leave. 

 

I would appreciate your help as you seem to know the Thailand way of things.

Info as follows seems not that complicated for my wife but I would like to know what to write. 

 

The situation is I have never bothered about a Will as I have no assets in UK other than a UK bank account and every vehicle in Thailand I always have in my wife's name.

 

So the only thing that is technically mine in Thailand is the visa extension money because it's in a Thai bank account in my name only which is required by immigration.

 

We have a joint ATM Thai bank account as well in which my UK pension is paid into. 

 

As for my online UK bank account to save my wife aggro I have  given access to my one of my UK sons to take out what money there is on my demise and give to his step Ma. 

 

My questions on my demise. 

 

1. Vehicles no problem my wife can sell. 

 

2. The visa extension money in my name account again to save wife aggro I have changed to a ATM card account so my wife can use the ATM card to get the money out.

 

3. As No. 2 states could my wife get into trouble if she did that, do I need to write a letter giving permission.

 

4. Has the Thai govt have some right to some of that extension money. 

 

5. With the joint ATM account she take what money is left because no more money be paid in once DWP know I have peg it. 

 

5. Will just writing a letter to say and have it witnessed that I give all money and processions to my wife and permission to take all of what's mine enough.

 

Thanks for any help. 

Regards K. 

 

 

[nigelforbes]

44 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I posted this and no response ???? .

My Mrs is nagging me to write a letter maybe she means Will so she doesn't have any trouble in getting money I leave. 

 

I would appreciate your help as you seem to know the Thailand way of things.

Info as follows seems not that complicated for my wife but I would like to know what to write. 

 

The situation is I have never bothered about a Will as I have no assets in UK other than a UK bank account and every vehicle in Thailand I always have in my wife's name.

 

So the only thing that is technically mine in Thailand is the visa extension money because it's in a Thai bank account in my name only which is required by immigration.

 

We have a joint ATM Thai bank account as well in which my UK pension is paid into. 

 

As for my online UK bank account to save my wife aggro I have  given access to my one of my UK sons to take out what money there is on my demise and give to his step Ma. 

 

My questions on my demise. 

 

1. Vehicles no problem my wife can sell. 

 

2. The visa extension money in my name account again to save wife aggro I have changed to a ATM card account so my wife can use the ATM card to get the money out.

 

3. As No. 2 states could my wife get into trouble if she did that, do I need to write a letter giving permission.

 

4. Has the Thai govt have some right to some of that extension money. 

 

5. With the joint ATM account she take what money is left because no more money be paid in once DWP know I have peg it. 

 

5. Will just writing a letter to say and have it witnessed that I give all money and processions to my wife and permission to take all of what's mine enough.

 

Thanks for any help. 

Regards K. 

 

 

You could do all those things and they might work out well but I can't say with certainty that they will. I suspect you already understand that bank accounts in any country should be frozen on the death of an account holder and that technically, disbursements from the account cannot be made without the approval of the Probate Court. Again, technically, the estate of any deceased person is meant to be subject to Probate and that involves a cost because only a Thai Solicitor can address the court. The situation in the UK is similar except a solicitor is not always required for Probate but there is still a cost involved.

 

Since you propose to write a letter anyway, why not just write a will, the effort will be the same except you need to have two people witness your signature? Alternatively, why don't you and your wife visit the Amphur and write an Amphur will, that will cost almost nothing? If you decide to write a will, I'm  sure we can find you the right form of words to write one in under one page of A4. Once you have a written will you can lodge a copy with your bank, that might be sufficient to allow your wife access to any funds and should cover her is she continues to use your account after you die. Whether or not your wife can completely avoid probate depends on whether she can remove all your funds first and whether the bank insists on going the probate route.

 

I don't know what the bank would do if your wife withdraws funds from your account after you die, technically that is illegal but there again TIT.

 

I hope that helps, let me know what you want to do next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nigelforbes]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

I posted this and no response ???? .

My Mrs is nagging me to write a letter maybe she means Will so she doesn't have any trouble in getting money I leave. 

 

I would appreciate your help as you seem to know the Thailand way of things.

Info as follows seems not that complicated for my wife but I would like to know what to write. 

 

The situation is I have never bothered about a Will as I have no assets in UK other than a UK bank account and every vehicle in Thailand I always have in my wife's name.

 

So the only thing that is technically mine in Thailand is the visa extension money because it's in a Thai bank account in my name only which is required by immigration.

 

We have a joint ATM Thai bank account as well in which my UK pension is paid into. 

 

As for my online UK bank account to save my wife aggro I have  given access to my one of my UK sons to take out what money there is on my demise and give to his step Ma. 

 

My questions on my demise. 

 

1. Vehicles no problem my wife can sell. 

 

2. The visa extension money in my name account again to save wife aggro I have changed to a ATM card account so my wife can use the ATM card to get the money out.

 

3. As No. 2 states could my wife get into trouble if she did that, do I need to write a letter giving permission.

 

4. Has the Thai govt have some right to some of that extension money. 

 

5. With the joint ATM account she take what money is left because no more money be paid in once DWP know I have peg it. 

 

5. Will just writing a letter to say and have it witnessed that I give all money and processions to my wife and permission to take all of what's mine enough.

 

Thanks for any help. 

Regards K. 

 

 

Here's what a sample will will look like, just so you can understand the effort involved:

 

This is the last will and testament of I, (your full name), born (your date of birth) holder of UK passport number (your passport number), address (your address).

 

I hereby revoke all prior wills and codicils.

 

This will covers all my assets in the Kingdom of Thailand only.

 

I hereby appoint (insert the executor name) as executor of this will. NOTE: this can be your wife

 

Being of sound mind I do freely chose to bequeath all my assets in Thailand, including the contents of my bank account number (bank account number here) with (bank name) located at (address here) to my wife, (wife’s full name) whose address is (address here).

 

In the event my wife does not survive me, my assets will pass to (second choice name) whose address is (address).

 

Signed

 

 

 

In the presence of:

 

Signature witness 1

Address

 

 

Signature witness 2

Address

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

You could do all those things and they might work out well but I can't say with certainty that they will. I suspect you already understand that bank accounts in any country should be frozen on the death of an account holder and that technically, disbursements from the account cannot be made without the approval of the Probate Court. Again, technically, the estate of any deceased person is meant to be subject to Probate and that involves a cost because only a Thai Solicitor can address the court. The situation in the UK is similar except a solicitor is not always required for Probate but there is still a cost involved.

 

Since you propose to write a letter anyway, why not just write a will, the effort will be the same except you need to have two people witness your signature? Alternatively, why don't you and your wife visit the Amphur and write an Amphur will, that will cost almost nothing? If you decide to write a will, I'm  sure we can find you the right form of words to write one in under one page of A4. Once you have a written will you can lodge a copy with your bank, that might be sufficient to allow your wife access to any funds and should cover her is she continues to use your account after you die. Whether or not your wife can completely avoid probate depends on whether she can remove all your funds first and whether the bank insists on going the probate route.

 

I don't know what the bank would do if your wife withdraws funds from your account after you die, technically that is illegal but there again TIT.

 

I hope that helps, let me know what you want to do next.

 

 

Thanks i went to your Will write post first miss this I will make the  Will out and go Amphur to try avoid any probate. 

 

I was suggesting to the Mrs if i think I'm about done at anytime draw the money out and I'll hang on until you say you have the money. ????????????

Thanks so much again. ????

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kwasaki

[nigelforbes]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Thanks i went to your Will write post first miss this I will make the  Will out and go Amphur to try avoid any probate. 

 

I was suggesting to the Mrs if i think I'm about done at anytime draw the money out and I'll hang on until you say you have the money. ????????

Cool!

 

Make sure you take details of the bank account with you when you visit the Amphur. And make sure you give the bank a copy of your will because that often short cuts things when the time comes.

[Kwasaki]

Just now, nigelforbes said:

Cool!

 

Make sure you take details of the bank account with you when you visit the Amphur. And make sure you give the bank a copy of your will because that often short cuts things when the time comes.

Thanks again regards K. 

[Kwasaki]

On 4/17/2023 at 2:16 PM, nigelforbes said:

Cool!

 

Make sure you take details of the bank account with you when you visit the Amphur. And make sure you give the bank a copy of your will because that often short cuts things when the time comes.

I thought add Thai ID card No. of wife and witnesses and my Thai step son who the Will would apply to on me surviving my Mrs. 

 

Highly unlikely but just trying to dot and cross the T's. 

[nigelforbes]

29 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I thought add Thai ID card No. of wife and witnesses and my Thai step son who the Will would apply to on me surviving my Mrs. 

 

Highly unlikely but just trying to dot and cross the T's. 

Agreed, good thinking.

[Kwasaki]

28 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Agreed, good thinking.

Thanks. ????

[Kwasaki]

40 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Agreed, good thinking.

Just a thought that I didn't think of until i got to get doing this Will stuff. 

I have farmland which my UK family could build on after I've peg it or before i peg it.

Can my wishes be mentioned in a Will as I,  technically being married have a right to 49% making an agreement, yes,  no. ??? ????

Edited April 18, 2023 by Kwasaki

[nigelforbes]

40 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Just a thought that I didn't think of until i got to get doing this Will stuff. 

I have farmland which my UK family could build on after I've peg it or before i peg it.

Can my wishes be mentioned in a Will as I,  technically being married have a right to 49% making an agreement, yes,  no. ??? ????

You have farmland in Thailand that you think you have a right to 49% making an agreement? Why do you think you do? How do you arrive at the 49%? Is that  through a Thai company that you own?

 

After you die, you no longer have any rights as a result of being married, any rights will expire when you do.

 

You can express any personal wishes that you want to in your will, the question is whether or not they will be binding. Unless there is a legal basis for those wishes to be binding, they can be set aside. 

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

You have farmland in Thailand that you think you have a right to 49% making an agreement? Why do you think you do? How do you arrive at the 49%? Is that  through a Thai company that you own?

 

After you die, you no longer have any rights as a result of being married, any rights will expire when you do.

 

You can express any personal wishes that you want to in your will, the question is whether or not they will be binding. Unless there is a legal basis for those wishes to be binding, they can be set aside. 

Yeah I'm getting to thinking too much.

All the stuff and farmland I can just make arrangements with my wife.

The Will is all ready to be printed out then when all signed and witnessed I'll get some copies made case local Amphur and bank need.

[nigelforbes]

32 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I'm getting to thinking too much.

All the stuff and farmland I can just make arrangements with my wife.

The Will is all ready to be printed out then when all signed and witnessed I'll get some copies made case local Amphur and bank need.

ORIGINAL COPIES for wife and Amphur, copies for anyone else who wants them.

[nigelforbes]

50 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I'm getting to thinking too much.

All the stuff and farmland I can just make arrangements with my wife.

The Will is all ready to be printed out then when all signed and witnessed I'll get some copies made case local Amphur and bank need.

No biggee here and not meaning to be pedantic, but if your wife is the Executor then technically she's an Executrix rather than an Executor .

[alanrchase]

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. I am British and have just started looking into this. My offshore bank says I will require probate granted in their jurisdiction before releasing any funds. However as I am British and am technically domiciled in the UK even though I live in Thailand I will also require probate in the UK as far as I can tell. The UK taxman will almost certainly need to be involved. I will be contacting a UK solicitor today that deals with multi jurisdictional probate requirements and will be happy to post their general advice should they offer any.

 

[topt]

6 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. I am British and have just started looking into this. My offshore bank says I will require probate granted in their jurisdiction before releasing any funds. However as I am British and am technically domiciled in the UK even though I live in Thailand I will also require probate in the UK as far as I can tell. The UK taxman will almost certainly need to be involved. I will be contacting a UK solicitor today that deals with multi jurisdictional probate requirements and will be happy to post their general advice should they offer any.

 

I found this out a couple of years ago when I queried with Lloyds International as they are based in IOM. I had presumed all fell under UK (British) probate but apparently not so now I have 2 separate wills for my "British" and IOM assets.....

For both of these I used online templates.

 

My simplistic understanding is that even as a non-resident for tax, but like you still UK domiciled, HMRC will want to know everything and take a cut off everything unless you find a way to mitigate via Trusts or whatever.

However to do that I guess you have to get hold of all the funds from offshore probate first to then declare everything when applying for UK probate? I am happy to be corrected on this point as could not find any obvious references when I was looking.

 

I will be interested to hear what they say should they come back with anything useful 

[alanrchase]

1 minute ago, topt said:

I found this out a couple of years ago when I queried with Lloyds International as they are based in IOM. I had presumed all fell under UK (British) probate but apparently not so now I have 2 separate wills for my "British" and IOM assets.....

For both of these I used online templates.

 

My simplistic understanding is that even as a non-resident for tax, but like you still UK domiciled, HMRC will want to know everything and take a cut off everything unless you find a way to mitigate via Trusts or whatever.

However to do that I guess you have to get hold of all the funds from offshore probate first to then declare everything when applying for UK probate? I am happy to be corrected on this point as could not find any obvious references when I was looking.

 

I will be interested to hear what they say should they come back with anything useful 

Haven't heard back yet but it is my understanding that to get granted probate in the IOM you first need probate granted in the UK. I am hoping to only require one will for a UK based solicitor and for that solicitor to get probate in all jurisdictions and gather the funds for the estate. Once gathered they can deal with the taxman and distribute the funds to the beneficiaries. 

[topt]

1 hour ago, alanrchase said:

Haven't heard back yet but it is my understanding that to get granted probate in the IOM you first need probate granted in the UK. I am hoping to only require one will for a UK based solicitor and for that solicitor to get probate in all jurisdictions and gather the funds for the estate. Once gathered they can deal with the taxman and distribute the funds to the beneficiaries. 

Perhaps I got that the wrong way round so I will be interested to hear if that is the case. 

 

[TimeMachine]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:51 PM, nigelforbes said:

Here's what a sample will will look like, just so you can understand the effort involved:

 

This is the last will and testament of I, (your full name), born (your date of birth) holder of UK passport number (your passport number), address (your address).

 

I hereby revoke all prior wills and codicils.

 

This will covers all my assets in the Kingdom of Thailand only.

 

I hereby appoint (insert the executor name) as executor of this will. NOTE: this can be your wife

 

Being of sound mind I do freely chose to bequeath all my assets in Thailand, including the contents of my bank account number (bank account number here) with (bank name) located at (address here) to my wife, (wife’s full name) whose address is (address here).

 

In the event my wife does not survive me, my assets will pass to (second choice name) whose address is (address).

 

Signed

 

 

 

In the presence of:

 

Signature witness 1

Address

 

 

Signature witness 2

Address

Looks good to me,  but after talking to thai lawyer im thinking to add the specific line."  Lady is the trustee upon my death". Also fyi.  Today was quoted 150000 by magna carta to apply for probate at court.  But ive been quoted 30,000 elsewhere.