Farangs Who 'go Native'.......

[bendix]

Isn't this a question of degrees and definition?

Attempting to speak Thai, eating the local food, wai-ing where appropriate etc etc is hardly going 'native'. It's attempting to respect local traditions and fitting in as best as a white face can in a brown community.

If, on the other hand, you start wearing 12 year old mishapen teeshirts and you start sleeping all day in the back of your pick-up, waking only to take a swig of mekhong and scratch your balls then one can come to one of two conclusions:

1) you've taken the going native thing too far, or

2) you've retired to Pattaya.

[bkkmadness]

The immigrants who are missing out are those who live in western condos in the big cities, shop only in the major western stores, go to western bars/clubs and have little contact with Thais except middle class English speakers - but many of them are, of course, experts on Thai culture!

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

[Rooo]

There's a couple of guys, of Indian origin, in Edinburgh that speak English and eat Haggis suppers. What idiots.

My Thai boss was in Scotland and shook peoples hands and drank whisky - man was he embarrassed when I told him he was being laughed at.

What are you doing here? Idiot & embarasiing YOU are.

[bkkmadness]

There's a couple of guys, of Indian origin, in Edinburgh that speak English and eat Haggis suppers. What idiots.

My Thai boss was in Scotland and shook peoples hands and drank whisky - man was he embarrassed when I told him he was being laughed at.

What are you doing here? Idiot & embarasiing YOU are.

Oh my giddy aunt, the man was being sarcastic. He was joking. He was being ironic to make a point.

[chinthee]

There's a couple of guys, of Indian origin, in Edinburgh that speak English and eat Haggis suppers. What idiots.

My Thai boss was in Scotland and shook peoples hands and drank whisky - man was he embarrassed when I told him he was being laughed at.

What are you doing here? Idiot & embarasiing YOU are.

Oh my giddy aunt, the man was being sarcastic. He was joking. He was being ironic to make a point.

Yes, they were just having some good natured fun here. Hate to see what happens when I take the piss.

[junkofdavid2]

I find it so ridiculous when farangs try overly hard to be Asian to the point that it's even more than genuine Asians.

For example, I've seen farang trying so hard to (pathetically) use chopsticks with Thai food for which Thais themselves use spoon and fork.

(In fact, I'm not even sure if chopsticks can be considered Thai.)

But to each his own... if that makes them happy, it's great.

[terry57]

I know a few western immigrants who have "gone native" to some extent - I admire them. I try to sometimes but am not very good at it.

As long as the immigrant has a good sense of humour I think the Thais laugh with them, not at them, it can be good fun learning, and living, each others' culture.

The immigrants who are missing out are those who live in western condos in the big cities, shop only in the major western stores, go to western bars/clubs and have little contact with Thais except middle class English speakers - but many of them are, of course, experts on Thai culture!

its a slow day on koh tao and im really liking this thread so im in for another crack.

i think the above statement is a bottler and should be nominated for an oscar as it just about says it all.

and yes, what about these cats that come here and spend all there time in there condos and then bolt down to the nearest farang restaurant to gobble down there bloody bacon and eggs washed down with a chang.

i mean what are they learning about los, and what is there contribution besides keeping certain bars, working girls and crap farang serving restaurants in business. ?

and on top of that they come onto the forum and slag of thailand and the locals because of some piss poor reason.

when i first came to thailand i lived amoungst the locals isolated in a little bay on an island and i must say i tried to go native as much as i could. i was a newbie but the locals treated me like one of them and ill never forget them. i used to wear fisherman pants, no top or shoes and hung out with all the dudes and dudettes, drank whiskey with them, went to marrages and funerals and fished with them. never had a problem except when i had to go back to the real world and that was a culture shock.

cant do that now as the fire twirling, dreadlocked, tattooed, rap listenning gang have invaded the bloody place.

there not interested in going local but only in scouring as much pot as they can smoke in one day, but i got to tell you punters, that when they get busted and got to pay 60,000 baht to the cops the tears start to flow.

but i digress, and i will support the cat that is trying to go native, as his mind is in the right place and he is giving it a good crack.

so i dont want to read any bollicks about , this guy is barking up the wrong tree.

thank you very much punting friends.

[terry57]

The immigrants who are missing out are those who live in western condos in the big cities, shop only in the major western stores, go to western bars/clubs and have little contact with Thais except middle class English speakers - but many of them are, of course, experts on Thai culture!

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

most probly the same ones you go to maddy, so you have answered your own question.

but look mate , i know you sometimes have a problem sorting out the wheat from the chaff, so ill help you out .

any bar that is in lower sukumvit, nana plaza , soi cowboy or patpong.

how's that for starters.

[pnustedt]

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

The western condos/clubs referred to are those who cater almost exclusively to westerners and mostly westerners live in or frequent them. An example of a western club in Bkk is the Bier Garten near Nana Station just of Sukhumvit.

[bkkmadness]

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

An example of a western club in Bkk is the Bier Garten near Nana Station just of Sukhumvit.

any bar that is in lower sukumvit, nana plaza , soi cowboy or patpong.

Is that where they meet the middle class English speaking Thais?

Edited July 3, 2007 by bkkmadness

[bkkmadness]

The immigrants who are missing out are those who live in western condos in the big cities, shop only in the major western stores, go to western bars/clubs and have little contact with Thais except middle class English speakers - but many of them are, of course, experts on Thai culture!

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

most probly the same ones you go to maddy, so you have answered your own question.

Terence, don't you spend most of your time in Thailand at Khao San Road?

[pnustedt]

I find it so ridiculous when farangs try overly hard to be Asian to the point that it's even more than genuine Asians.

For example, I've seen farang trying so hard to (pathetically) use chopsticks with Thai food for which Thais themselves use spoon and fork.

(In fact, I'm not even sure if chopsticks can be considered Thai.)

But to each his own... if that makes them happy, it's great.

Actually Thais traditionally eat with their hands - all dipping into communal dishes in the centre of the floor.

I often use chopsticks to eat Thai food - not because I like to pretend I'm Thai but because I lived in Hong Kong for many years before coming to Thailand and got used to them, Thai food has similarities to other Asian food for which chop sticks are quite appropriate. Often chop sticks are the only thing available if you don't want to use your hands.

[bkkmadness]

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

The western condos/clubs referred to are those who cater almost exclusively to westerners and mostly westerners live in or frequent them.

I guess you could say the serviced condos fit that bill of being mainly western. But not sure that many people who stay here long term live in those.

[wadsy]

quote name='teacup' date='2007-07-03 13:55:58' post='1396818']

To the OP

Why would you be laughing at someome or making fun of him just because he’s choosing to integrate by paying heed to the local culture, traditions and values, and making the effort to get to know them? It’s a personal choice and benefits…. and just because you, yourself, choose not to do so, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong for someone else to do so.

Cultural integration means different things to different people. I've met people from different nationalities but I think it's self-selection, personal choice after weighed benefits. I see most farang expats(not tourists, or those in transition) here are not interested in living a cultural life. They have social life revolving around their own partying and clubs. The lack of interests in integration by many farangs (expats, not tourists) here bothered me more than the opposite.

For example many white westerners, in particular, do not make the effort to get to know Thailand culturally. They are white and think they know it all! They look down on us-thais, close themselves in their own little imagination community, and take us for granted and think we, the local thais are mostly dumb, however they soon jump and put on an act as soon as they see locals. When they first come here they are friendly and easy going. But over the years they have realized that they get all the attentions because they're white and starting to act like the untouchable god to be worshipped upon, or overestimated their self value and worth.

Please give me a break! It’s you and the same like kind, that the silent majority of the thai is laughing upon!

Teacup, how about you go back and REREAD the OP. Where does Luckdog say that he is laughing at him????? He was referring to other thai villagers. You might like to apologise for your unwarranted critisism.

I visited an old friend up country where he lives in a little village with his Wife, her Kids and extended Family the other day, and frankly I was shocked!

He has gone completely Native......Dressing Thai, speaking Thai, eating Thai, waiing all over the place etc.

I asked my GF what the locals think of him. She told me that they laughed behind his back.

Now ain't that sad? There he is integrating himself to death, and they think it's funny.

And this got me thinking. At a time when Thailand is becoming more and more Westernized, what possible reason is there for us Farangs to go the other way?

By all means respect Thai customs, Religion etc, but keep your own for Gawd's sake!

I know, I know most of you do. But there are plenty of peeps who are losing their identity.

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

[terry57]

The immigrants who are missing out are those who live in western condos in the big cities, shop only in the major western stores, go to western bars/clubs and have little contact with Thais except middle class English speakers - but many of them are, of course, experts on Thai culture!

Just reading your post and wondering about these western condos/western clubs, why exactly are they western? What's the difference between an eastern condo and western condo? What's an example of a western club in Bangkok?

most probly the same ones you go to maddy, so you have answered your own question.

Terence, don't you spend most of your time in Thailand at Khao San Road?

thats not true maddy, and you got it all ballsed up again so let me put you straight my learned friend.

when terence is in bangkok he inhabits rambuttri street and every punter on this forum worth his salt knows that.

when terence is not on rambuttri street he inhabits koh tao which is where i am now, but the weathers <deleted> so im here talking to you maddy.

anyway im coming back to rambuttri street tomorrow, so dont you bloody tell everybody . ok

thank you very much.

[bkkmadness]

Ah Rambuttri street, all of 15 seconds walk from Khao San. Well as long as you're close to your McDonalds, Starbucks, Burger King and Subway you'll be OK dude.

Enjoy Koh Tao Terence, wish I was there! What beach you staying on?

Edited July 3, 2007 by bkkmadness

[terry57]

Ah Rambuttri street, all of 15 seconds walk from Khao San. Well as long as you're close to your McDonalds, Starbucks, Burger King and Subway you'll be OK dude.

Enjoy Koh Tao Terence, wish I was there! What beach you staying on?

im stopping in my mates house behind sariee and the bleeding hot water shower im loving it.

anyway maddy, how about stopping high jacking this thread as the mods will ban you ok.

and just to get things back on topic, when i come and live on koh tao i will be going native, but im going to wear my shoes around as theres a <deleted> load of rocks down here.

actually if more punters would make the effort to go native los would be a much better place and pattaya could return to the paradise it once was.

thank you very much.

[terry57]

Isn't this a question of degrees and definition?

Attempting to speak Thai, eating the local food, wai-ing where appropriate etc etc is hardly going 'native'. It's attempting to respect local traditions and fitting in as best as a white face can in a brown community.

If, on the other hand, you start wearing 12 year old mishapen teeshirts and you start sleeping all day in the back of your pick-up, waking only to take a swig of mekhong and scratch your balls then one can come to one of two conclusions:

1) you've taken the going native thing too far, or

2) you've retired to Pattaya.

" retired to pattaya "

thats <deleted> classic bendix.

[bkkmadness]

Khao San in Bangkok, Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, well as long as your are avoiding those western influences Terence, next stop Haad Rin.......?

ok, ok, on topic. So what if the dude's going native, if he ain't hurting anyone there isn't a problem. Does he lose in identity? Well I'd very much doubt he'd go back to the west for a visit and eat off the floor and start waiing people, so I'd say he's just fitting into his enviroment in a way he feels comfortable.

Besides if you went truly native in this country, is that really losing your identity? Seems to me more like your identity just changes.

[JCCR6]

There's a couple of guys, of Indian origin, in Edinburgh that speak English and eat Haggis suppers. What idiots.

My Thai boss was in Scotland and shook peoples hands and drank whisky - man was he embarrassed when I told him he was being laughed at.

What are you doing here? Idiot & embarasiing YOU are.

That was sarcasm!

50 years ago 20 white men chasing a black bloke were called Klu klux Klan.Today it's called formula 1.

This is funny!

A female dwarf goes to a doctor complaining of an embarrassing itch.....

Who's the idiot?

[Jingthing]

Does going native make the rules different and easier to get visa extensions?

Call me when it does and I might consider it.

I have run across some gone native farang types and general vibe I usually get is hostility towards non-localized farangs. Maybe being xenophobic is part of the whole experience.

I don't think they look all that ridiculous if they are doing it well. Contrast that to westerner in Bali wearing sarongs and doing native dances, now that's ridiculous.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[bkkmadness]

Does going native make the rules different and easier to get visa extensions?

Call me when it does and I might consider it.

Bribery could be considered a native custom.

[uptou]

If, on the other hand, you start wearing 12 year old mishapen teeshirts and you start sleeping all day in the back of your pick-up, waking only to take a swig of mekhong and scratch your balls then one can come to one of two conclusions:

for a farang this has to be the aim for full intergration.

i think its funnier when you overhear conversations of farang men with their much younger wives,whose only thai word addressed to his wife is "tirak",& his interest in other thai aspects stopped at phad thai.

[toasted]

It's beyond me how some people can live so long in a foreign country and make no effort to assimilate ("go native"). 5-20+ years after living here all they can do is order a beer (badly). Of course they're all married, or have been, to local ladies who may well resent the way they trash the local ways and culture. Often they're the same ones who'll be complaining about immigrants to their home country who can't speak English. You can't have it both ways.

It surprises me that it we need to discuss whether we should make the effort to assimilate. The guy referred to by the OP is just doing it his way, and presumably enjoying it or he wouldn't be there. So why the need to deride what he's doing?

[Jingthing]

The vast majority of farangs in Thailand are NOT immigrants. We are on NON-immigrant visas. That is the big difference. What percentage are going for permanent residence or citizenship? Less than 1 percent I would guess. The rest are up for deportation periodically. So why go totally native in such a situation? I agree be sensitive to the culture, learn the language if you can/want to, enjoy the food if you do, etc, but it only goes so far considering our legal status and second class persons status.

Is it still beyond you?

Edited July 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[Naam]

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

i don't agree. if it makes the man happy so be it!

[meemiathai]

I visited an old friend up country where he lives in a little village with his Wife, her Kids and extended Family the other day, and frankly I was shocked!

He has gone completely Native......Dressing Thai, speaking Thai, eating Thai, waiing all over the place etc.

I asked my GF what the locals think of him. She told me that they laughed behind his back.

Now ain't that sad? There he is integrating himself to death, and they think it's funny.

And this got me thinking. At a time when Thailand is becoming more and more Westernized, what possible reason is there for us Farangs to go the other way?

By all means respect Thai customs, Religion etc, but keep your own for Gawd's sake!

I know, I know most of you do. But there are plenty of peeps who are losing their identity.

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

Until we see a video of your friend, we can't really judge why he is being laughed at.

Furthermore, it is YOUR girlfriend who said it, she could be wrong.

And there is probably misunderstandings between you and your gf.

From my experience, 90% or above of farang have not the slightest idea about anything thai. More than half of them cannot even understand a simple expression like "farang". What else do you expect?

[Neeranam]

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

i don't agree. if it makes the man happy so be it!

I don't agree, too.

I think it's a shame the OP has to try to make a fool of him - I'd say jealousy, or a feeling of not belonging. His mate is chatting to everyone in the country's language and he, "mai ruu ruang". I wonder who the natives really laugh at.

[chinthee]

Luckydog,

I'll bet we experts can get to the bottom of this. Can you provide more information about your friend's age, and what were the people's ages etc., who you saw him "waiing" all over the place. Did you notice how high he held his hands, his head position, etc.. Can you give any detail?

I think that might be a simple start, rather than conjecture. This might seem stupid, but otherwise, we don't have anything more concrete to judge his behavior. Is he known as a nonstop drunk? This could be another factor. Can you give us anything else to go on?

[Minburi]

I have nothing against those who try to ingrain themselves into a culture. But its grates when they go over board and look down at others who have not become so culturely atuned or as enlightened as they who has found the true path and then go about correcting their improper behaviour and such according to Thai Culture.

Those I have seen that have go totally native and I am with my wife she always asks, why as they are not Thai, and she wonders why they trying so hard and I really have no answer.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Minburi