Russia has threatened to destroy any fighter jets given to Ukraine by its allies, after two countries promised planes.

Slovakia became the second Nato country to pledge Kyiv some MiG-29 aircraft on Friday, a day after Poland.

Slovakia's fleet was grounded last year and it no longer uses the jets.

Ukraine has asked Western countries for modern jets, but because of long training times, these are seen only as long-term options.

It sees extra aircraft as important for its defences and possible counter-attacks, a year into Russia's invasion.

Other Nato countries are considering sending planes such as the MiG-29 - a model which dates from the time of the Soviet Union - which Ukrainian pilots are trained to fly.

Same old "we can have them to attack you, but you can't have them to defend yourselves" narrative. Always the same outrage. How dare you defend yourselves?

Ukrainian pilots might have other ideas.

Why does Russia feel the need to announce this? Isn't it sort of what they do, or at least try to do. So far I'm only sure they can dump fuel on an unmanned drone. Well, I think they can drop bombs on defenseless Ukrainian cities too.

Oh poor Mr Putin. Are those unfriendly countries provoking you again?

 

The very definition of short man syndrome.

For quite a while now I've thought that there's a 50/50 chance of NATO going to war with Russia.

5 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

For quite a while now I've thought that there's a 50/50 chance of NATO going to war with Russia.

I think you have that backwards 50/50 chance of Russia going to war with nato after all who started this mess not nato or Ukraine ???????? 

31 minutes ago, Tug said:

I think you have that backwards 50/50 chance of Russia going to war with nato after all who started this mess not nato or Ukraine ???????? 

False flag etc could be instigated by either, militaries tend to love war.

So, if Poland and Slovakia donate planes to Ukraine, but the planes remain in, and fly out, of Poland and Slovakia, and if the Russians attempt to destroy the planes on the ground, does that mean that Russia will go ahead and actually attack Nato countries ?  Or do the "donated" planes have to be based in Ukraine for any reason ?

19 hours ago, Tug said:

I think you have that backwards 50/50 chance of Russia going to war with nato after all who started this mess not nato or Ukraine ???????? 

Vlad doesn't fancy having NATO nukes based on his Ukraine border if Ukraine became a NATO country, and I can't say I blame him.

Edited March 19, 20233 yr by Andrew65

18 hours ago, Tony M said:

Or do the "donated" planes have to be based in Ukraine for any reason ?

Of course they do, otherwise it would basically be an attack on Russian forces by NATO/the country flown from.

Edited March 19, 20233 yr by Salerno

3 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Vlad doesn't fancy having NATO nukes based on his Ukraine border if Ukraine became a NATO country, and I can't say I blame him.

So invading Ukraine is going to stop that happening? He just wanted an excuse to retake Donbas and secure Crimea. He can't possibly control Ukraine, and has no right to. NATO is already on his doorstep in Estonia, Latvia and very soon, Finland. That's why they're untouchable.

3 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Vlad doesn't fancy having NATO nukes based on his Ukraine border if Ukraine became a NATO country, and I can't say I blame him.

There isn't any NATO policy to put nukes near Russia borders. Currently there are U.S. nukes only in Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Turkey, plus France and UK have their own nukes.

Apart from Turkey, they are not close to Russia, I.e. not in Poland, Hungary, Baltic states, etc...

3 hours ago, candide said:

There isn't any NATO policy to put nukes near Russia borders. Currently there are U.S. nukes only in Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Turkey, plus France and UK have their own nukes.

Apart from Turkey, they are not close to Russia, I.e. not in Poland, Hungary, Baltic states, etc...

It wasn't NATO's policy for most of the Soviet-bloc to become NATO members...until it was.

I think Putin/Russia feel threatened by NATO expansion. What's NATO's answer to that? Let's make NATO even bigger.

And before I get slagged off for making these comments, I don't believe that the invasion of Ukraine is that different to the 2003 invasion (a 'war of aggression' based on falsehood) in Iraq, where maybe half a million people, many of them innocent, were killed.

35 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

It wasn't NATO's policy for most of the Soviet-bloc to become NATO members...until it was.

I think Putin/Russia feel threatened by NATO expansion. What's NATO's answer to that? Let's make NATO even bigger.

And before I get slagged off for making these comments, I don't believe that the invasion of Ukraine is that different to the 2003 invasion (a 'war of aggression' based on falsehood) in Iraq, where maybe half a million people, many of them innocent, were killed.

NATO was not a threat to Russia. There was no intent to attack or threaten Russia.

 

Putin is a sore loser. He cannot accept this simple fact: no European country wants to be associated with Russia. One reason being that he failed to develop his country and Russia has no soft power. Another is that they have suffered from Russian (and Soviet) imperialism in the past

 

The Iraq war was different but it doesn't really matter. Everybody would agree with you that it was not a "good war". It was a scam war. Even at that time, several NATO countries were against it (ex. France). Both invasions are horrendous.

1 minute ago, candide said:

NATO was not a threat to Russia. There was no intent to attack or threaten Russia.

 

Putin is a sore loser. He cannot accept this simple fact: no European country wants to be associated with Russia. One reason being that he failed to develop his country and Russia has no soft power. Another is that they have suffered from Russian (and Soviet) imperialism in the past

 

The Iraq war was different but it doesn't really matter. Everybody would agree with you that it was not a "good war". It was a scam war. Even at that time, several NATO countries were against it (ex. France). Both invasions are horrendous.

The ex-Soviet bloc countries became NATO allies instead of Soviet /Russian allies, which they found 'threatening', there former-'friends' were now on the side of their enemies.

Whenever we see the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and what is never mentioned is that the US had previoulsy placed nuclear missiles in Turkey, in the Soviet's backyard. As I said, most people are completely unaware of that.

56 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

I think Putin/Russia feel threatened by NATO expansion. What's NATO's answer to that? Let's make NATO even bigger.

Countries join NATO because they are scared of Russia, Ukraine was never going to be allowed to join NATO, now there is a chance, Sweden and Finland had no intention of joining NATO until Russia invaded Ukraine, Putin is the best salesman NATO ever had. 

But this war was never about NATO it was about Putins fantasy of expansionism. 

3 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

The ex-Soviet bloc countries became NATO allies instead of Soviet /Russian allies, which they found 'threatening', there former-'friends' were now on the side of their enemies.

Whenever we see the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and what is never mentioned is that the US had previoulsy placed nuclear missiles in Turkey, in the Soviet's backyard. As I said, most people are completely unaware of that.

Zelensky offered to not join NATO in return for a peace deal with Putin. The offer was ignored. 

12 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

The ex-Soviet bloc countries became NATO allies instead of Soviet /Russian allies, which they found 'threatening', there former-'friends' were now on the side of their enemies.

Whenever we see the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and what is never mentioned is that the US had previoulsy placed nuclear missiles in Turkey, in the Soviet's backyard. As I said, most people are completely unaware of that.

Turkey, that was during the 60's. It has nothing to do with the post-Soviet NATO policy.

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Zelensky offered to not join NATO in return for a peace deal with Putin. The offer was ignored. 

Zelensky also said that not one inch of Ukrainian territory would be ceded to Russia. the offer was also ignored.☺️

Just now, Andrew65 said:

Zelensky also said that not one inch of Ukrainian territory would be ceded to Russia. the offer was also ignored.☺️

Of course, why would he give permission for an illegal occupation?

On 3/20/2023 at 2:05 AM, Bkk Brian said:

Of course, why would he give permission for an illegal occupation?

This would also mean Russia giving up Crimea, which I don't think will happen. So there's a deadlock there.

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

This would also mean Russia giving up Crimea, which I don't think will happen. So there's a deadlock there.

Yes. It's going to be hard going negotiating any kind of territorial settlement.

When Russia stole Crimea nobody did anything!

 

Now we all pay the price.....

Russia and China can join forces and attach West. Starting in Taiwan.

And the lunatic in North Korea will attach South Korea and Japan.