But You Came From A Christian Country!

[baboon]

I have nothing but respect for Buddhist beliefs; the law of karma for example, in which I believe 100 per cent, but it is surely an Asian religeon. What converted you to Buddhism? What does it offer you over Christianity? Can you please suggest reading materials as I am more than happy to try and learn more?

[lannarebirth]

I have nothing but respect for Buddhist beliefs; the law of karma for example, in which I believe 100 per cent, but it is surely an Asian religeon. What converted you to Buddhism? What does it offer you over Christianity? Can you please suggest reading materials as I am more than happy to try and learn more?

It's not really such a great divide. Many core principles are the same or similar.

From the Bible, Galatians VI : "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Here's a couple of links that may be of interest:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/whatbelieve.pdf

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index.html

Also check out pinned topics above.

[baboon]

Thanks for the imput and links which I will follow up. But why did you feel the need to change?

[Brucenkhamen]

Thanks for the imput and links which I will follow up. But why did you feel the need to change?

Firstly Buddhism, at least in the way most westerners practice it, is not a religion as such it's more a training framework.

It's not a matter of switching brands from christianity to buddhism, as christianity is based on belief wheras buddhism is based on training, it's possible to practice both if you really want to.

Thirdly I think practicing christians are in the minority in almost every western country, so no I didn't come from a christian country, rather a secular humanist one.

So why the need to change from secular humanism to buddhism? Because it makes sense, it helps me to have a better attiitude towards life, each step I take reveals what the buddha taught as being true.

[garro]

I originally come from Ireland and fact that different Christian groups regulary blow each other up there was one of the reasons I turned away from Christianity at about the age of fifteen. I was still quite a religious person though and became very interested at Buddhism at the same time. I was introduced to Buddhism while learning martial arts and became instantly attracted to meditation.

[chownah]

Thanks for the imput and links which I will follow up. But why did you feel the need to change?

People don't change because they feel a need for it....people change because this is their nature. All people change.....people mature and that's a change for example. One of the ideas the Buddha taught is that ALL things change constantly and that nothing is permanent. The Buddhist doctrine of the impermanence of all things is called "annica".

Chownah

[cdnvic]

I have nothing but respect for Buddhist beliefs; the law of karma for example, in which I believe 100 per cent, but it is surely an Asian religeon. What converted you to Buddhism? What does it offer you over Christianity? Can you please suggest reading materials as I am more than happy to try and learn more?

I never decided to become a Buddhist. I just realized one day that I was one.

[thaicurious]

i'm neither christian nor buddhist but might i suggest reading "the good heart: a buddhist perspective on the teachings of jesus" by the dalai lama

[markwhite]

What converted you to Buddhism?

I came across a website based on a BBC documentary that explained the teachings of the Buddha. As I read it I felt a deep realisation that these were perfectly sensible and appropriate ways of living. I gained more information about meditation in the UK, and studied more once I came to live in Thailand.

Though I would not say I have converted to Buddhism. I try to follow the teachings of the Buddha, but I have no need to identify with any religion.

What does it offer you over Christianity?

When I came across the teachings of Buddha, I had never come across the teachings of Christ explained in the same way. I'd only ever seen the Church and the Bible. The former I saw as little but a mostly self-serving, closed, traditional business organisation, and the latter I saw as being a book. neither of those things made me feel that Christianity was something I wanted to be involved in.

Now I have learnt a little more about Christ's teachings, and met some born-again Christians and not just 'people who go to church', I can accept the broad similarities between Buddha and Christ in terms of how they lived.

[Tilokarat]

Buddhists can blow up one another real good too although I don't think SCTV mentioned this religion much. Witness the Burma-Ayutthaya wars, Chiang Mai-Ayutthaya, Ayutthaya-Angkor and so on. The Law of Kamma (Karma) may have been central to original Buddhist teachings, but Buddhism in the Theravada Buddhist countries of Asia - Burma, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Laos and Cambodia seems to emphasise doing well in the here and now rather than self-denial. This is in tune with the slow path to salvation that exists amongst Buddhists. Of course, trying to maintain a good merit scoresheet is still important, and one wants to get as much boon as possible. Nevertheless, acquisitions be it jewels, cars, houses, name brands is as important in Thailand as it is in the so-called Christian countries of Europe, North America, the Philippines, etc.

Theravada Buddhism is interesting, but it is more like a faith-based religion nowadays than one that focuses on the law of karma, meditation, and the Noble Eightfold Path. I remember visiting Wat Suan Dok in Chiang Mai during a Buddhist festival, and it looked like a streetcar (trolley) barn. White cords (from Hinduism) were tied from the Buddha image to the chanting monks. Down the centre of the wat were more white cords that were connected to the monks and the Buddha image, and to the people in attendance. The people were in neat rows just like the streetcars with the trolleys attached to the wires above except in this case the white cords were attached to the people's wrists. Obviously, the power of the Buddha image and the monk's chanting an important sutra was transmitting merit to the listeners. The whole wat was a field of merit for the faithful. This was fascinating stuff to watch, and participate in, but it had nothing to do with the Buddhism that I learnt at the University of British Columbia. Nor did the fact that the village monks and novices ate in the afternoon, and often went home at night so their mothers could feed them. The abbot of the village wat was very friendly and kind and intelligent. He also owned the largest tv, and biggest boombox in the vicinity. Baw pen yang mai pen rai). This is life. This is Theravada Buddhism.

[garro]

Buddhists can blow up one another real good too although I don't think SCTV mentioned this religion much. Witness the Burma-Ayutthaya wars, Chiang Mai-Ayutthaya, Ayutthaya-Angkor and so on. The Law of Kamma (Karma) may have been central to original Buddhist teachings, but Buddhism in the Theravada Buddhist countries of Asia - Burma, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Laos and Cambodia seems to emphasise doing well in the here and now rather than self-denial. This is in tune with the slow path to salvation that exists amongst Buddhists. Of course, trying to maintain a good merit scoresheet is still important, and one wants to get as much boon as possible. Nevertheless, acquisitions be it jewels, cars, houses, name brands is as important in Thailand as it is in the so-called Christian countries of Europe, North America, the Philippines, etc.

Theravada Buddhism is interesting, but it is more like a faith-based religion nowadays than one that focuses on the law of karma, meditation, and the Noble Eightfold Path. I remember visiting Wat Suan Dok in Chiang Mai during a Buddhist festival, and it looked like a streetcar (trolley) barn. White cords (from Hinduism) were tied from the Buddha image to the chanting monks. Down the centre of the wat were more white cords that were connected to the monks and the Buddha image, and to the people in attendance. The people were in neat rows just like the streetcars with the trolleys attached to the wires above except in this case the white cords were attached to the people's wrists. Obviously, the power of the Buddha image and the monk's chanting an important sutra was transmitting merit to the listeners. The whole wat was a field of merit for the faithful. This was fascinating stuff to watch, and participate in, but it had nothing to do with the Buddhism that I learnt at the University of British Columbia. Nor did the fact that the village monks and novices ate in the afternoon, and often went home at night so their mothers could feed them. The abbot of the village wat was very friendly and kind and intelligent. He also owned the largest tv, and biggest boombox in the vicinity. Baw pen yang mai pen rai). This is life. This is Theravada Buddhism.

Ah, this old chestnut. I don't think you'll find that the Burmese were fighting with the Thais because of Buddhism.

Edited July 8, 2007 by garro

[ProThaiExpat]

What I see as the "good" in any religion or belief is that by following the core principles, one lives a happier life. In other words, I see all religions and their teachings, books and credo, as a "rule of life".

What needs to be done by each individual is to strip away from the core of religions, as practiced in the world today, the man inspired and instigated credos and practices. When one strips away man's alterations to pure religious thought, as handed done by the true originator of the religion, you are truly left with a marvelous rule of life, most similar with other religions or rules of life.

It is easy to blame religions for most of the "crimes against humanity", but isn't it really the religious meddlers, demigods and men using religion as a weapon of their own agenda who are at blame. Examples abound such as the Inquisition or Jihadists in todays world.

Buddhism is attractive to me because it does not make its originator a "God" although man certainly may so try to do. As to Christianity, do we really know what Jesus meant when he reportedly said, "I am the son of God", and the apostles for their own ends, failed to mention that he also said "As are all of you".

My point is that in Christianity, there has been so much meddling by man of the core teachings of Jesus, that we will never know his true teachings. Certainly the elaborate rituals and contradictions in dogma by churches today are a testament to man's meddling.

When religions attempt to assuage some of man's basic fears through artifice they should be treated with suspicion. Take for example the natural urge for survival that gives rise to the fear of death. When a religion, as part of its credo, attempts to assuage that fear by creating a mechanism for "life after death", one should be suspicious. Aren't the words, "life after death" an oxymoron?

I agree with the poster who says many don't turn to a religion, they only decide through a process of elimination that their core beliefs place them at a certain place that has been previously described as a religion and then further exploration in that religion leads them to enlightenment.

On the other hand, many seek a religious life to solve their life problems and many do so blindly ending up is cults for example.

Not believing in a "God", am I an Atheist or am I a Buddhist, as I understand it, Buddhist's don't believe in a "God". Therefore are Buddhists, Atheists to the Christian world? If there is a God, isn't man at the epitome of ego when he believes he can conceive of the true concept of an entity that created the Universe and then proselytize that concept to others?

[ProThaiExpat]

P.S. I just completed the "Belief-o-Matic" test in the thread below and it places me overwhelmingly in the Secular Humanist camp. I think the test was spot on. Are any of my comments in the post above contrary to that concept?

[jamesc2000]

I have nothing but respect for Buddhist beliefs; the law of karma for example, in which I believe 100 per cent, but it is surely an Asian religeon. What converted you to Buddhism? What does it offer you over Christianity? Can you please suggest reading materials as I am more than happy to try and learn more?

I never decided to become a Buddhist. I just realized one day that I was one.

Same with me!

[PeaceBlondie]

I think the wars of 'Buddhist nations' are quite relevant to the connection between

A. The teachings of the Buddha, as transmitted to the modern age.

B. The practices of those who claim to be following the teachings of the Buddha.

Similarly, the wars of 'Christian nations' are quite relevant to similar arguments regarding the teachings of the Christ, as transmitted to the modern age. As for that, there is no doubt among the leading scholars as to what the teachings of the Christ are. Is there scholarly doubt as to what the Buddha taught, at least about peace and non-violence?

My comments are directed at this discussion, because most converts from "Christianity" to "Thai Buddhism" may never have been Christians, even if they are now Buddhists. Also, they may have been scared away from the perversion of Christ's teachings by the violent warmongers....oops, there I go again.

[garro]

I think the wars of 'Buddhist nations' are quite relevant to the connection between

A. The teachings of the Buddha, as transmitted to the modern age.

B. The practices of those who claim to be following the teachings of the Buddha.

Similarly, the wars of 'Christian nations' are quite relevant to similar arguments regarding the teachings of the Christ, as transmitted to the modern age. As for that, there is no doubt among the leading scholars as to what the teachings of the Christ are. Is there scholarly doubt as to what the Buddha taught, at least about peace and non-violence?

My comments are directed at this discussion, because most converts from "Christianity" to "Thai Buddhism" may never have been Christians, even if they are now Buddhists. Also, they may have been scared away from the perversion of Christ's teachings by the violent warmongers....oops, there I go again.

Hi PeaceBlondie it wasn't just the fighting between Christians that turned me off it was also the fact that I developed doubts which I could not resolve. As I said, I was quite religious when young and did make an effort to read the bible but I just couldn't resolve these doubts. I came across Buddhism when I was 15 and it immediately appealed to me and has done ever since. I have nothing against Christianity but it just wasn't for me.

[phetaroi]

I have nothing but respect for Buddhist beliefs; the law of karma for example, in which I believe 100 per cent, but it is surely an Asian religeon. What converted you to Buddhism? What does it offer you over Christianity? Can you please suggest reading materials as I am more than happy to try and learn more?

It was about my third visit to Thailand that I began evolving into a Buddhis, and even now it isn't that I accept it (or any religion) as "right".

My first year in Thailand a Thai family in the north took me on a bit of a tour of the Chiang Mai area and when we got to the temple on Doi Suthep they simply taught me "procedures" they followed at the temple. There was no effort to convert me or discussion of what was right or wrong. They simply felt if I was going to visit Thailand I ought to understand what was going on.

After another visit I began to contemplate why these relatively poor people were so seemingly happy.

Then one day I had an opportunity to sit and chat with a rather young monk. He began answering a lot of questions, one of which was was there a book I could read that would teach me more about Buddhism. He said no, that was the wrong approach. He said what I needed to do was ask myself and others questions...search for truth and falsehood in matters of faith. Make my own decisions.

I also asked him how could I do that when there were so few Buddhist temples in the US. He laughed a kind, friendly laugh. He told me to look at everything in his temple, inlcuding the Buddha image. "All this has nothing to do with Buddhism." Then he put his hand on my head and said, "This is all you need to be a Buddhist. If you think like a Buddhist and act like a Buddhist, then you are a Buddhist."

Of couse, that led me to doing what he said I didn't need to do...read about Buddhism. And perhaps it was a just a coincidence, but several of the first few books I read began with prefaces that said something along the lines of -- accept what you deem is worth, discard what you must. Integrate what seems right to you into your beliefs and behaviors. Then you are walking on the right path.

What??? I am not forced to belief a particular belief or rule? What kind of religion is this? My kind!

[fabianfred]

Buddhists can blow up one another real good too although I don't think SCTV mentioned this religion much. Witness the Burma-Ayutthaya wars, Chiang Mai-Ayutthaya, Ayutthaya-Angkor and so on. The Law of Kamma (Karma) may have been central to original Buddhist teachings, but Buddhism in the Theravada Buddhist countries of Asia - Burma, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Laos and Cambodia seems to emphasise doing well in the here and now rather than self-denial. This is in tune with the slow path to salvation that exists amongst Buddhists. Of course, trying to maintain a good merit scoresheet is still important, and one wants to get as much boon as possible. Nevertheless, acquisitions be it jewels, cars, houses, name brands is as important in Thailand as it is in the so-called Christian countries of Europe, North America, the Philippines, etc.

Theravada Buddhism is interesting, but it is more like a faith-based religion nowadays than one that focuses on the law of karma, meditation, and the Noble Eightfold Path. I remember visiting Wat Suan Dok in Chiang Mai during a Buddhist festival, and it looked like a streetcar (trolley) barn. White cords (from Hinduism) were tied from the Buddha image to the chanting monks. Down the centre of the wat were more white cords that were connected to the monks and the Buddha image, and to the people in attendance. The people were in neat rows just like the streetcars with the trolleys attached to the wires above except in this case the white cords were attached to the people's wrists. Obviously, the power of the Buddha image and the monk's chanting an important sutra was transmitting merit to the listeners. The whole wat was a field of merit for the faithful. This was fascinating stuff to watch, and participate in, but it had nothing to do with the Buddhism that I learnt at the University of British Columbia. Nor did the fact that the village monks and novices ate in the afternoon, and often went home at night so their mothers could feed them. The abbot of the village wat was very friendly and kind and intelligent. He also owned the largest tv, and biggest boombox in the vicinity. Baw pen yang mai pen rai). This is life. This is Theravada Buddhism.

It might be life...but it isn't TRUE theravada.... monks are only people...and most people are ignorant of the truth...so they did not learn the true dhamma...or were taught by those who also do not know or practise it.... so their practise is incorrect

the Buddhism isn't corrupt...but the true dhamma can be corrupted... it can be misunderstood and practised wrongly and taught wrongly

the belief that merit can be sent along little white cords is fantasy..... we can only work for our own salvation...even holding onto the robe of the Buddha and following him everywhere will not bring us enlightenment...we must practise what he taught to achieve nirvana

many Thais listen to monks chant and give them the precepts...like it is a spell which will make them good...but they don't bother to try and keep the precepts themselves...it is too difficult

being bad is easy...being good is hard work

you understand better than most thais....

[Brucenkhamen]

I also asked him how could I do that when there were so few Buddhist temples in the US.

That would be the US of A? Unless you are from the mid-west you'd be surprised. Finding practicing Buddhists who approach it in a way compatible with the way you do shouldn't be hard.

[PeaceBlondie]

True. Houston, Texas has Chinese, Vietnamese, and Thai temples.

[baboon]

Thanks for all your replies. What puts me off Christianity is some of the nonsese literally banged into our heads at Catholic School. For example "playing with yourself is a mortal sin and a direct affront to God." I simply do not believe this, or what about "babies who die unbaptized do not go to Heaven." How comforting while writing this, the thought of my Son burning in hel_l.

I will be in Bangkok at the end of the month. Can anyone suggest an "idiots guide" to Buddhism for me to read on the plane back to England?

[camerata]

I will be in Bangkok at the end of the month. Can anyone suggest an "idiots guide" to Buddhism for me to read on the plane back to England?

Try The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Buddhist Wisdom, by Gill Farrer-Halls, or The Buddhist Handbook : A Complete Guide to Buddhist Schools, Teaching, Practice, and History, by John Snelling.

[baboon]

Thanks. I will check them out!

[present]

Buddism is a life philosophy more than a religion. What attracts me is that they don't have such thing as the bible or koran, wich can be interpreted false or used by politicians to gain power over other people. Buddism is about peace,respect for life and nature and learning to understand the mystery of life, rather than a pope who still tell people Maria did get a visit from the holy goast and so came jesus a life.Or that jesus did arise from the grave and we all know that such things don't happen.The pretension of the catholic relegion is beyond proportions if you concider that they start counting the time from the birth of jesus, now 2007 years ago, but there is life on earth for hundred thousands of years. The cruisades and the missionare (work?) in Africa are other examples from this endless pretension.Should I go further? Buddism makes us thinking about the essence of life. The Western consuming economy give people false feel of happiness.We are slaves of that system and not free at all. Once you have to pay monthly for a house,car, hi-fi etc, you don't have no other choice than working, and Buddism makes us think, hey do we need all this stuff really?The consume goods today are cheaper than ever, but much of it is produced by little kids from 6 , 7 years old who have to work 15 hours a day. For cacao production they use kids as slaves in certain parts of Africa, so think about it when you eat a cheap piece of chocolate.

I have nothing but respect for Buddhist beliefs; the law of karma for example, in which I believe 100 per cent, but it is surely an Asian religeon. What converted you to Buddhism? What does it offer you over Christianity? Can you please suggest reading materials as I am more than happy to try and learn more?

[baboon]

Interesting, thoughtful post.

[cdnvic]

I will be in Bangkok at the end of the month. Can anyone suggest an "idiots guide" to Buddhism for me to read on the plane back to England?

The writings of Christmas Humphries are a good plain language intoduction to Buddhism. Buddhism in particular covers most of the varieties of Buddhism and is just short enough to read entirely on a long flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Humphries

[JimsKnight]

Present, I don't see the whole point of people knocking Christianity for the sake of it. There a criticisms of both religions sure but some of your comparisons are well out there.

Its not the Catholic / Christian religion per sa that is a problem. Ever since the Reformation the spirit and message of the Christian Churches has off-kilter and distorted.

If you look at Bhuddism there is an incredible amount of liberalism and 'Do what you want but not in excess.' attitude. Not a bad thing, but the trouble is it means nasty and cunning types can abuse it by claiming to of acted within the 'rules.'

Its the people behind the religion that misuse and abuse their power that have given Christianity a bad name.

Material wealth is something that Christianity does not (or at least should not!) agree with, don't forget the saying of 'It's easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to pass into heaven.' Thats not Bhuddist, its Catholic / Christian, something that Jesus said.

The money changers / lenders greedy and corrupt ways incensed Jesus that much he had to resort to violence in casting them out of the Jewish Temple.

[Ave]

I don't know if it is an actual fact: somebody I know recently made the interesting observation that these days it looks like more Christians turn to Buddhism and that more Buddhists are converting to Christianity...

I think the wars of 'Buddhist nations' are quite relevant to the connection between

A. The teachings of the Buddha, as transmitted to the modern age.

B. The practices of those who claim to be following the teachings of the Buddha.

Similarly, the wars of 'Christian nations' are quite relevant to similar arguments regarding the teachings of the Christ, as transmitted to the modern age. As for that, there is no doubt among the leading scholars as to what the teachings of the Christ are. Is there scholarly doubt as to what the Buddha taught, at least about peace and non-violence?

My comments are directed at this discussion, because most converts from "Christianity" to "Thai Buddhism" may never have been Christians, even if they are now Buddhists. Also, they may have been scared away from the perversion of Christ's teachings by the violent warmongers....oops, there I go again.

[Ave]

Agree. We can end up comparing and finding faults in everything if we want to spend all our time doing so. But what do we get out of that in the end i don't know, some people pure pleasure. Unfortunately there is clearly a high degree of slandering behaviour among many who claim to be following the right path or believe to be religiously knowledgeable which to them might mean to have all the wisdom they need. This could be the consequence of deeply eradicated distorted views and personal dissatisfaction about one's own life in general which can lead to expressing distructive views, misconceptions and even acts of malice. The foundations of most if not all religions should be the focus for finding happiness, not for people's assumptions or speculation about whether the people who practice them are doing the right or wrong thing for themselves. I think we might end up finding out that we were closer to buddhism all along and not officially become a buddhist and the opposite can also happen. You might think you have become a Buddhist or a Christian when in fact you are none of these. I mean, "you" used in the general term of course..

(sorry for not being able to articulate as well as native speakers).

Present, I don't see the whole point of people knocking Christianity for the sake of it. There a criticisms of both religions sure but some of your comparisons are well out there.

Its not the Catholic / Christian religion per sa that is a problem. Ever since the Reformation the spirit and message of the Christian Churches has off-kilter and distorted.

If you look at Bhuddism there is an incredible amount of liberalism and 'Do what you want but not in excess.' attitude. Not a bad thing, but the trouble is it means nasty and cunning types can abuse it by claiming to of acted within the 'rules.'

Its the people behind the religion that misuse and abuse their power that have given Christianity a bad name.

Material wealth is something that Christianity does not (or at least should not!) agree with, don't forget the saying of 'It's easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to pass into heaven.' Thats not Bhuddist, its Catholic / Christian, something that Jesus said.

The money changers / lenders greedy and corrupt ways incensed Jesus that much he had to resort to violence in casting them out of the Jewish Temple.

[PeaceBlondie]

Present, I don't see the whole point of people knocking Christianity for the sake of it. There a criticisms of both religions sure but some of your comparisons are well out there.

Its not the Catholic / Christian religion per sa that is a problem. Ever since the Reformation the spirit and message of the Christian Churches has off-kilter and distorted.

If you look at Bhuddism there is an incredible amount of liberalism and 'Do what you want but not in excess.' attitude. Not a bad thing, but the trouble is it means nasty and cunning types can abuse it by claiming to of acted within the 'rules.'

Its the people behind the religion that misuse and abuse their power that have given Christianity a bad name.

Material wealth is something that Christianity does not (or at least should not!) agree with, don't forget the saying of 'It's easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to pass into heaven.' Thats not Bhuddist, its Catholic / Christian, something that Jesus said.

The money changers / lenders greedy and corrupt ways incensed Jesus that much he had to resort to violence in casting them out of the Jewish Temple.

JimsKnight, your last point is so wrong that it only proves how the violent 'believers' who are the 'leaders' of the philosophy will go to any lengths to pervert the original teachings. It's not since the Reformation that the perversions started (actually many corrections were made then), but more like the year 325 AD.

Do Buddhists convert to Christianity because they find Thai or Theravada Buddhism terribly perverted by greedy monks raising money like Tetzl raised money for the Vatican, which triggered the Reformation? Would more Thais convert from violent, supra-national Buddhism to non-violent Christianity?