save the frogs Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) Just watched a silicon valley guy talk about AI & future of Health Care. Here are some quotes: "We are heading toward a massive world of abundance where the best health care is provided by an AI effectively for the cost of electricity, so it's going towards zero." Then he says "will anybody go to medical school anymore?" In other words, AI Health Care will be extremely cheap since no highly paid human doctors will be needed. And all this expensive private health insurance may come to an end. Question is ... how long? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Will most of us be dead? He does say that in 5 years it will be malpractice for a doctor to diagnose a patient without an AI assistant, but doctors may still be doing most of the treatment in 5 years. So maybe it's not for another 10 years at least where doctors will be fully replaced by AI. Edited June 3, 2023 by save the frogs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 The end is near for our kind. Comfortably numb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, zzaa09 said: The end is near for our kind. Comfortably numb. are you married? how does anybody tolerate your cynicism and nihilism and bleak vision of the universe for more than 15 minutes? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoner Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 how fast will big pharma let go of their control ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, stoner said: how fast will big pharma let go of their control ? we will still need to take pharmaceuticals i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoner Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, save the frogs said: we will still need to take pharmaceuticals i think. i mean the big corp around heath care as well. take thailand. many private hospitals. will they let go of the money they pull in so people can be fixed by AI health care ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, stoner said: i mean the big corp around heath care as well. take thailand. many private hospitals. will they let go of the money they pull in so people can be fixed by AI health care ? yeah, good question. there may be a lot of resistance / pushback Edited June 3, 2023 by save the frogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, stoner said: i mean the big corp around heath care as well. take thailand. many private hospitals. will they let go of the money they pull in so people can be fixed by AI health care ? a more philosophical answer is money will become less important in society. star trek next generation. the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. it's still 300 years off. so i'm jumping ahead. Edited June 3, 2023 by save the frogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoner Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, save the frogs said: a more philosophical answer is money will become less important in society. star trek next generation. the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. it's still 300 years off. so i'm jumping ahead. all we need to do is mine one pretty decent size asteroid. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlover Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) It's already happening according ChatGPT. Go ask for yourself. Edited June 3, 2023 by Moonlover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorry Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Sure, a tech guy who makes a living selling tech cræp to mankind will speak like this. You can be sure, that he doesn't want to be treated by a "hallucinating" copy machine, he will want a professional when he is sick. AI for the plebs, sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 hours ago, save the frogs said: "We are heading toward a massive world of abundance where the best health care is provided by an AI effectively for the cost of electricity, so it's going towards zero." How should that be possible? I imagine it might be that AI might be better in analyzing facts, making a diagnosis, and suggesting the best treatment. But how much is that of the total healthcare? Who pulls the blood and analyzes it? There are certainly machines and chemicals involved in this process. Where does medication come from? Someone must produce them. Who helps people into hospital beds? Maybe robots. And they cost a lot more than just electricity. Who does the operations? The list goes on and on. I am sure AI will be helpful. But there is a lot more to it than just AI and electricity. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 56 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: How should that be possible? I imagine it might be that AI might be better in analyzing facts, making a diagnosis, and suggesting the best treatment. But how much is that of the total healthcare? I think the AI will be performing surgeries. They have steady hands. I don't know how much an AI surgeon costs. If it's 500K, that's a surgeon's salary for 1 year. Then the operating costs are much lower. Maybe these IT guys are over-hyping .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 30 minutes ago, save the frogs said: I think the AI will be performing surgeries. They have steady hands. I don't know how much an AI surgeon costs. If it's 500K, that's a surgeon's salary for 1 year. Then the operating costs are much lower. Maybe these IT guys are over-hyping .. The most state-of-the art PET scanner is $750K. The cost of robotics used by AI would be significantly more IMO. Against that, every surgeon I have had in Australia has been earning over a million. AI would be operating to a diagram of the human body. Good surgeons have an instinct for the living flesh under the scalpel, that tells them when the body is deviating from what the diagram says it should be. How do the IT guys transfer said instinct to AI? Certainly, robotics play an important part in surgery nowadays. However, human guidance is still there. IT guys always over-hype, it comes with the territory. I have yet to meet an app or program which is 100% user-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 hours ago, save the frogs said: I think the AI will be performing surgeries. They have steady hands. I don't know how much an AI surgeon costs. If it's 500K, that's a surgeon's salary for 1 year. Then the operating costs are much lower. Maybe these IT guys are over-hyping .. AI = Artificial Intelligence <> robots. Robots are getting more sophisticated but they are still very expenive. This is an interesting interview about the current situation. 2 years ago: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said: Robots are getting more sophisticated but they are still very expenive. yeah, i had watched part of that interview. they want robots in the home, but can't figure out how to make them cheap enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lacessit said: How do the IT guys transfer said instinct to AI? that's above my pay grade. surgeons will be guiding the robotic arms, at least initially. maybe the IT guys are over-hyping or projecting decades ahead. even with driver-less cars, i think they underestimated how difficult it would be to implement. Edited June 4, 2023 by save the frogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcab Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 I can see AI being used for diagnosing illness, where the ai is using a series of answers provided by the patient along with results of examinations and tests. I can imagine some kind of ai that is wirelessly connected to a blood pressure machine, a thermometer, weighing scales, blood analysis machine, etc. This sort of first line health care might be developed and trialled in developing countries where the options might be ai or nothing. One machine and a heslthcare assistant trained to draw blood and operate the machine would be all you need. A healthcare assistant is considerably cheaper and quicker to train than a doctor or a nurse. Diagnoses could be confirmed by a doctor anywhere in the world. The ai would get to train in the real world and improve itself until its results were equal or better than humans, at which point they would start to appear in the developed world. I think "generalist" jobs that use sets of questions and various information to produce a result are at risk, and not just in the field of medicine. Specific and unique jobs such as surgeon are out of reach of ai for now. I don't think expensive hospitals are going anywhere for a long time, just the diagnostic equipment and processes they use will inevitably change. But let's see. Maybe the flaw in my thinking is that ai will be able to design advanced surgery robots... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsius Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 My dear god, this nonsense again. Every time there is the potential to pump some stocks UP these "experts" come out of nowhere. 20 years ago STEM cells were supposed to cure cancer. Ten years ago Crypto was supposed to solve world hunger. Electric powered cars were supposed to be "good for the environment". BTW, did you not ask chatGTP about this topic? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 10 hours ago, save the frogs said: Maybe these IT guys are over-hyping .. Extremely. And they know nothing about the practice of medecine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) Well not medicine but this is the best (funniest) example I have found of what can go wrong: A lawyer used ChatGPT and now has to answer for its ‘bogus’ citations Lawyers suing the Colombian airline Avianca submitted a brief full of previous cases that were just made up by ChatGPT, The New York Times reported today. After opposing counsel pointed out the nonexistent cases, US District Judge Kevin Castel confirmed, “Six of the submitted cases appear to be bogus judicial decisions with bogus quotes and bogus internal citations,” and set up a hearing as he considers sanctions for the plaintiff’s lawyers. https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/27/23739913/chatgpt-ai-lawsuit-avianca-airlines-chatbot-research Edited June 4, 2023 by jerrymahoney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) well, now the guy claims ChatGPT passed the US medical licensing exam. not the same as surgery, but still scary/impressive ... however you want to look at it. and also passed the BAR exam. Edited June 4, 2023 by save the frogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 Another comment for any diet folks on here. There have been several diet debates on the forum. This tech guy just referenced Dr Peter Attia. Dr Peter Attia admits that it's difficult even for doctors to synthesize some of the scientific data with regards to healthy diets because there are "too many confounding variables". Perhaps that's why there is so many conflicting studies. So they will be using AI more and more to synthesize the scientific studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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