Move Forward and the double-edged sword of ‘orange fandom’

[h90]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Umh: Move Forward 151 seats, Pheu Thai 141 seats.

 

I've looked at these numbers from just about every angle save standing on my head. You know, it looks awfully like MFF inflicted a defeat on Pheu Thai.

 

However you count it, 151 is more than 141!

 

What they have gone on to do is to construct a reasonably amicable coalition alliance with Pheu Thai, a coalition which will hopefully endure and reflect most of the wishes of the very large number of Thais ( together a majority) who voted for these two parties.

Maybe we can agree on that MFP and PTP together defeated the Military parties?

As together they have a majority in parliament.

Everything else is just semantic if we call it a defeat or not does not really matter. Just a pointless question on how we define words.

I worry that it all won't be reasonable.....and there will be again demonstrations and violence with some colored TShirts.

[MikeandDow]

17 minutes ago, h90 said:

Of course! Politicians do illegal funding......that is not exactly unheard of. Future Forward according to Bangkok Post got illegally 200 Million Baht from Thanathorn. And that is only what they got caught.

what has this to do with MF

FF is in the past, again this was the junta finding excuses

Edited June 20, 2023 by MikeandDow

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, h90 said:

Of course! Politicians do illegal funding......that is not exactly unheard of. Future Forward according to Bangkok Post got illegally 200 Million Baht from Thanathorn. And that is only what they got caught.

You said politicians. Who else besides Thanthorn. We all know that case very well of a popular pro-democracy upstart party that ruffled the feathers of the elites/military and have to be silenced. 

[h90]

22 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

what has this to do with MF

FF is in the past, again this was the junta finding excuses

you want to tell me that MF is not FF and PTP is not TRT??? Seriously?

[h90]

10 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You said politicians. Who else besides Thanthorn. We all know that case very well of a popular pro-democracy upstart party that ruffled the feathers of the elites/military and have to be silenced. 

You are born yesterday? Never heard from corruption and illegal financing? Unless you come from North Korea you had in every country countless cases.....There is no politics without money. It costs a fortune to get even mentioned in the news.

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, h90 said:

You are born yesterday? Never heard from corruption and illegal financing? Unless you come from North Korea you had in every country countless cases.....There is no politics without money. It costs a fortune to get even mentioned in the news.

So you have no evidence but just shooting off your mouth. Get a hobby. 

[h90]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

So you have no evidence but just shooting off your mouth. Get a hobby. 

don't be ridiculous...claiming there is no corruption in politics is even below your quality of arguments....and they even as said above got caught with 200 Million illegal financing.

That evidence you should also see thru your orange glasses....Google it even BKK Post brought it big

[MikeandDow]

2 minutes ago, h90 said:

don't be ridiculous...claiming there is no corruption in politics is even below your quality of arguments....and they even as said above got caught with 200 Million illegal financing.

That evidence you should also see thru your orange glasses....Google it even BKK Post brought it big

what about 300 mil  Palang Pracharath Party no word hidden by junta

[Eric Loh]

36 minutes ago, h90 said:

don't be ridiculous...claiming there is no corruption in politics is even below your quality of arguments....and they even as said above got caught with 200 Million illegal financing.

That evidence you should also see thru your orange glasses....Google it even BKK Post brought it big

Just your typical frivolous talk without real evidence. You should start your post with IMHO and be quite acceptable. By the way, the law is for donating to party fundings. Thanathorn argued it was a loan and not a donation.  Guess who won. 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, h90 said:

single digital ID for everyone by joining government and private sector data is like a book example of fascism. With no privacy with the state can control everything and everyone......As more socialist countries as worse they get in the long run, because it leads to wasting money and ever increasing taxes. Not because the idea is wrong, because it invites corruption and legal vote buying.

Wrong.

[mommysboy]

Well they did win.  Perhaps let them get into power then express reservations, otherwise arguments like this run the risk of subverting democracy.

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, chalawaan said:

This is an amateurish Op-Ed at best and a paid but clumsy smear tactic at worst.

 

The majority have been swindled for generations. There's every reason for them to be pissed off, and demand  there be no more slimy backroom shysters get away with business as usual.

 

There's definitely a bit of fandom and euphoria, and much of it will fade, but I'm loving watching the flailing of the arrogant military loyalists who have such a toxic grip on Thailand, that even the foriegn press here can't have a mature and much needed discussion about the obvious fact that all roads lead to Rome. 

 

 

Almost cult-like in it's purity. 

[scorecard]

18 hours ago, h90 said:

single digital ID for everyone by joining government and private sector data is like a book example of fascism. With no privacy with the state can control everything and everyone......As more socialist countries as worse they get in the long run, because it leads to wasting money and ever increasing taxes. Not because the idea is wrong, because it invites corruption and legal vote buying.

GOP attitude, welfare, suporting each other, limited attempts to share the wealth, ensure all citizens have good health care are a waste of money.

Strange how countries / governments which have a limited socialist agenda are balanced, suppotive, and caring and are well supported by the populace. And the populace quite relaxed / not concerned that this is how a % of taxes are spent. 

[h90]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

GOP attitude, welfare, suporting each other, limited attempts to share the wealth, ensure all citizens have good health care are a waste of money.

Strange how countries / governments which have a limited socialist agenda are balanced, suppotive, and caring and are well supported by the populace. And the populace quite relaxed / not concerned that this is how a % of taxes are spent. 

Nothing against limited socialist agenda....all for it, specially on the health care and educated...But all limited socialist agenda everywhere is growing and building ever growing bureaucracy and taxes. Paying in many countries far more than 50% tax if you are working. And that all started with reasonable things.

[scorecard]

17 minutes ago, h90 said:

Nothing against limited socialist agenda....all for it, specially on the health care and educated...But all limited socialist agenda everywhere is growing and building ever growing bureaucracy and taxes. Paying in many countries far more than 50% tax if you are working. And that all started with reasonable things.

I take your points, what upsets me is the comments from the GOP trying to demand a stop to all welfare, a stop to education and health care support.

 

Talk to some folks from the scandinavian countries who pay big taxes and many items are taken care of in regard to good quality of life, a civil society. I can assure you most will quickly confirm they have no objection. What of course needs to be in the picture is that the funds involved are spent very wisely and decisions where/how to spend are taken with good valid processes.

 

I come from a limited socialist country, what I also love is that we take care of and suport the underprivileged who struggle to make good incomes and struggle to ensure their kids eat, and struggle to make good choices. We share resources with them and happy to do so. 

 

My own vieww is that ultimately most of the world will adopt some level of socialism, partly because the world cannot continue to accept the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer (plenty of valid data to support this) and more disadvantaged. My belief is that this will eventually cause some collapse of rampant capitalism which doesn't really give equal opportunity and is way out of balance in regard to a civil society.

Edited June 21, 2023 by scorecard

[h90]

58 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I take your points, what upsets me is the comments from the GOP trying to demand a stop to all welfare, a stop to education and health care support.

 

Talk to some folks from the scandinavian countries who pay big taxes and many items are taken care of in regard to good quality of life, a civil society. I can assure you most will quickly confirm they have no objection. What of course needs to be in the picture is that the funds involved are spent very wisely and decisions where/how to spend are taken with good valid processes.

 

I come from a limited socialist country, what I also love is that we take care of and suport the underprivileged who struggle to make good incomes and struggle to ensure their kids eat, and struggle to make good choices. We share resources with them and happy to do so. 

 

My own vieww is that ultimately most of the world will adopt some level of socialism, partly because the world cannot continue to accept the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer (plenty of valid data to support this) and more disadvantaged. My belief is that this will eventually cause some collapse of rampant capitalism which doesn't really give equal opportunity and is way out of balance in regard to a civil society.

I guess now I'll get bashing from both sides......In my opinion the base for any non socialist free society is free (socialist) education.

All is based on the idea that the poor people can get rich if only they work hard....and that works only if they get the same chances. Free education is a must. (The equal opportunity)

And really as human you can not let people die on the sidewalk. So health care for poor (not middle class) we must do....no need to pay for nice teeth but all that is important must be paid.

The problem is that the rich pay LESS taxes than the poor. They can escape it.

In Thailand you can wiggle out of taxes, but you pay VAT on food at the 7/11 and a fortune on taxes if you drink a beer.

VAT on food is a crime in my opinion. VAT on food should be complete removed.

All small to lower medium income and businesses should be complete free of taxes, fees and regulations (beside environment and health).

And the costs can be saved in the system. Able young people don't need any government support...they can work.

State pension for old people say >70 and people that are unable to work is also a must.

Do you know the government complex in Bangkok? And than there are 77 "states" with local government with all they pyramid of buerocrates. If you cut that 3/4 no one would notice it. Socialist systems always grow, they never keep reasonable.

If I would know that my tax euro or baht helps people in need I would happily pay it. But I think it is in the best case wasted and in the worst case used for something I don't want (warmongering for example)

[zzaa09]

On 6/19/2023 at 10:11 PM, h90 said:

you want to tell me that MF is not FF and PTP is not TRT??? Seriously?

Indeed. Same folks, different name. 

Semantics can be enigmatic at times. 

[BangkokReady]

On 6/20/2023 at 8:57 AM, bamnutsak said:

from the article....

 

Yuthaporn Issarachai, a political scientist from Sukhothai Thammathirat Open University, said that Move Forward supporters, particularly those on social media, appear to wield a great deal of influence on its decision-making.

 

“Move Forward has to bow to the demands of its own fandom,” he said.

 

 

No, it doesn't. It simply has to explain why, or why not, they are able to accomplish any reforms of the Institution, or any of the other platform issues.

They're probably hoping that Thailand slips into "noisy minority rule" like some Western countries that seem to be ruled by twitter fascists that scare people into complying with them.

 

Let's hope that doesn't happen in Thailand.