Can't Seem To Fit Myself Into Any Of The Categories!

[Girlaboutglobe]

Hello, I am new to this forum and I'm just shy of desperate for some advice on how to stay in this country for my research. I'm really hoping someone has encountered and overcome this "unique" problem before.

I'm travelling in Thailand and SE Asia (with a Canadian passport), in order to complete a novel set largely in Thailand. I also have a few shorter pieces that I am currently submitting for publishing. I've been in Thailand now for about six weeks, halfway through my second tourist visa. I know that with the new rules you can only get three such visas and then have to leave for 90 days. Okay, fair enough, I guess that means I need a non-immigrant visa with multiple entries. BUT as a freelance writer I've run into a few problems.

First, it doesn't look like I can get a work permit because I don't have a specific employer. However maybe I don't need one (can anyone confirm this?) because I won't be sending any writings to Thai companies. So then I could possibly get away with for a non-immigrant visa for the purpose of "study and observation", but I am concerned because of the stories I've read about difficulties getting these visas while in Thailand, and also because my reasons for being here don't seem to fit nicely into any of the categories they've provided.

To further complicate things I can't even seem to open a bank account here without one of said documents. It's quite frustrating, Thai people are lovely, but the institutions here are terribly uncooperative. I've sent lovely letters of inquiry to all of the relevant departments, done hours of webresearch, asked for advice, all to no avail.

So the long and the short of it is, what type of non-immigrant visa (with multiple entries I suppose) would I best I apply for, and which way of going about it is most likely to be successful?? I can leave Thailand in order to get the visa if necessary, if so is Singapore or Australia my best bet (funds being limited)? Or should I hire a company to help me get the darn thing (hopefully saving time and cash)?

Has anyone encountered smilar difficulties or heard of someone who has? Any advice at all would be enormously welcome!

Cheers,

Danielle

[Jingthing]

Not really clear on exactly how long you wish to stay, but if I were you I would go to Penang and try to get a real tourist visa (not 30 day stamps) with as many entries as they will sell you, and repeat as needed. I also wouldn't even mention your work or desire for an O visa because you are right, you don't fit their rigid mold. Just an impression to start the conversation ...

Things are now tougher for people like you. I think you have a legitimate need to be in Thailand long term, and before the changes last year, you could have stayed that way for years with not much heat.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Jingthing

[beechguy]

Hello, I am new to this forum and I'm just shy of desperate for some advice on how to stay in this country for my research. I'm really hoping someone has encountered and overcome this "unique" problem before.

I'm travelling in Thailand and SE Asia (with a Canadian passport), in order to complete a novel set largely in Thailand. I also have a few shorter pieces that I am currently submitting for publishing. I've been in Thailand now for about six weeks, halfway through my second tourist visa. I know that with the new rules you can only get three such visas and then have to leave for 90 days. Okay, fair enough, I guess that means I need a non-immigrant visa with multiple entries. BUT as a freelance writer I've run into a few problems.

First, it doesn't look like I can get a work permit because I don't have a specific employer. However maybe I don't need one (can anyone confirm this?) because I won't be sending any writings to Thai companies. So then I could possibly get away with for a non-immigrant visa for the purpose of "study and observation", but I am concerned because of the stories I've read about difficulties getting these visas while in Thailand, and also because my reasons for being here don't seem to fit nicely into any of the categories they've provided.

To further complicate things I can't even seem to open a bank account here without one of said documents. It's quite frustrating, Thai people are lovely, but the institutions here are terribly uncooperative. I've sent lovely letters of inquiry to all of the relevant departments, done hours of webresearch, asked for advice, all to no avail.

So the long and the short of it is, what type of non-immigrant visa (with multiple entries I suppose) would I best I apply for, and which way of going about it is most likely to be successful?? I can leave Thailand in order to get the visa if necessary, if so is Singapore or Australia my best bet (funds being limited)? Or should I hire a company to help me get the darn thing (hopefully saving time and cash)?

Has anyone encountered smilar difficulties or heard of someone who has? Any advice at all would be enormously welcome!

Cheers,

Danielle

Don't know about the rest of this stuff, but I think you are misinformed about having to leave for 90 days. Are you confusing the rules for "Visa exempt entries"?

Edited July 9, 2007 by beechguy

[expatwannabe]

Hi Danielle,

It sounds like you're using 30-day entry stamps, not actual visas. If you get a tourist visa, it's good for 60 days initially, plus a 30 day extension you can get within Thailand. You can run to Laos or Cambodia to get these pretty much in unlimited fashion.

Some banks will let you open an account with no visa at all - I suggest you talk to more than one bank, and even more than one branch of the same bank. Eventually, you'll find one that'll let you open an account.

Is this enough of an answer?

[Girlaboutglobe]

Yes indeed, my permission slip is the standard 30 day entry stamp.

I'm not entirely sure how long I might need to stay in Thailand for my research, an unfortunate aspect of writing! I'd love to be able to do 6 months to a year, combined with trips to other regions that should be a healthy chunk of time.

Do I understand expatwannabe correctly in that with an official 60 day tourist visa + 30 day extension you can still leave the country and then reapply for an additional 60+30 days on your way back into Thailand? And an unlimited number of times? If so that would likely fit the bill... Should I give it a shot at a Bangkok Immigration Office first and if it doesn't work head to Penang (which is on my "list of stuff to see" anyway ?

I suspect that you are right about not fitting the mold and not bothering to push it Jingthing, from what I've read it's lots of confusion and no gain. (and thanks for vouch of legitimacy!)

As to the bank thing, it seems to be as you say, expatwannabe. I phoned a number of them today with no luck, but tomorrow is another day.

Do you think I am at least correct in assuming (dangerous, I know) that I don't need a work permit for my writing unless I attempt to submit it to a Thai company? Or would the employment rules get me for "working" for (selling to) any company at all while I'm in the country?

Thanks for your thoughts, fresh ideas are excellent!

Cheers,

Danielle

[Yingguoren]

At the moment, it sounds like you're entering the country and being stamped in. They're not Visas.

What you need to do, is visit a Thai Embassy outside of Thailand and get a tourist visa which is 2 months in length, and you can apply for 30 day extension at an immigration office located within Thailand.

From a thread I read in this forum, one guy did this 25 times with no problems. It may not be possible in the future. Who knows?

That seems like your best bet.

Regarding your work, just consider it private writing and don't mention it to anyone. It's not for a Thai company and you're not being paid from a Thai company so that shouldn't be an issue. If it is an issue then, heck, no need to tell them and they don't need to find out.

[WilliamIV]

Bank Account

I doubt if you will have much success on the Phone

You need to apply in Person - that is MORE likely to give good Result.

If you go with a Thai friend - Someone who can say thaey know you

- I think that will help

Bill

[Lite Beer]

Bank Account

I doubt if you will have much success on the Phone

You need to apply in Person - that is MORE likely to give good Result.

If you go with a Thai friend - Someone who can say thaey know you

- I think that will help

Bill

Yes a bit of leg work will get results. Try SCB Bank.

[roietjimmy]

Yes indeed, my permission slip is the standard 30 day entry stamp.

I'm not entirely sure how long I might need to stay in Thailand for my research, an unfortunate aspect of writing! I'd love to be able to do 6 months to a year, combined with trips to other regions that should be a healthy chunk of time.

Do I understand expatwannabe correctly in that with an official 60 day tourist visa + 30 day extension you can still leave the country and then reapply for an additional 60+30 days on your way back into Thailand? And an unlimited number of times? If so that would likely fit the bill... Should I give it a shot at a Bangkok Immigration Office first and if it doesn't work head to Penang (which is on my "list of stuff to see" anyway ?

I suspect that you are right about not fitting the mold and not bothering to push it Jingthing, from what I've read it's lots of confusion and no gain. (and thanks for vouch of legitimacy!)

As to the bank thing, it seems to be as you say, expatwannabe. I phoned a number of them today with no luck, but tomorrow is another day.

Do you think I am at least correct in assuming (dangerous, I know) that I don't need a work permit for my writing unless I attempt to submit it to a Thai company? Or would the employment rules get me for "working" for (selling to) any company at all while I'm in the country?

Thanks for your thoughts, fresh ideas are excellent!

Cheers,

Danielle

Danielle,

First, whatever visa you choose to apply for you will have to get it at a Thai Embassy outside Thailand. Going to Immigration in Thailand will be a waste of your time and their's. You seem to be here on a 30 day "Transit" stamp. Given you are unsure of how long you need or wish to stay, advise you apply for a tourist visa. www.mfa.go.th, gives all the requirements for application for the tourist visa and for all the non-immagrant visa types below. It looks like the best fit for you is the "Category M" Journalist Visa, but I doubt what you are wanting to do as far as reseach for a book would qualify you. To qualify you will need a letter from a recognised news/publication agency and a letter of approval from the ministry of information. If you have a publisher and can get a letter from them explaining the nature of your research it may work.

Again, strongly advise in keeping it simple and applying for a tourist visa, which, with the extension, will allow you to stay for 90 days in Thailand. Make sure you have all the documents you need before you go to the Thai Embassy to apply. You might consider a visit the Canadian Counsulate in Bangkok as well. They may be able to give you some advice. Good luck and send me a signed copy of the novel when you get it published.

Non Immigrant Visaissued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for the following purposes: - to perform official duties (Category "F") - to conduct business / to work (Category "B") - to invest with the concurrence of the Thai Ministries and Government Departments concerned (Category "IM") - to invest or perform other activities relating to investment, subject to the provision of the established laws on investment promotion (Category "IB") - to study, to come on a work study tour or observation tour , to participate in projects or seminars , to attend a conference or training course , to study as a foreign Buddhist monk (Category "ED") - to work as a film-producer, journalist or reporter (Category "M") - to perform missionary work or other religious activities with the concurrence of the Thai Ministries or Government Departments concerned (Category "R") - to conduct scientific research or training or teaching in a research institute (Category "RS") - to undertake skilled work or to work as an expert or specialist (Category "EX") - other activities (Category "O") as follows: to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process.

Edited July 9, 2007 by roietjimmy

[WilliamIV]

Danielle

It is important to get the nomenclature correct

You did not gain entrance to Thailand on a "Tourist Visa"

Your Entry Stamp is based on the Fact that Nationals of some

36 Countries including Canada can enter as Tourists without a Visa

that is Visa Exempt

You are limited to stay 90 days in 180 on Visa Exempt entries

It is now recommended that you do obtain a Tourist Visa from

a Thai Embassy or Consulate outside the Country

for which there is no published limit as of now

For a Canadian passport a Tourist Visa will result in your being given a 60 day

permission to stay stamp upon arrival in the Kingdom.

Hope this clarifies your situation

Bill

[lopburi3]

Actually the rule is 90 days in six months - not "180" days. It can make a difference.

[lodesafun]

Hiyas D,

The only thing I can add would be ..

Try walking into Bangkok Bank and act like you know what your doing (confidently & politely), and apply for a savings account, get the Visa card option so you may draw from your account at any ATM worldwide.

I have been told that Bangkok Bank is best option from others in your position.

Lodes

[JR Texas]

Hiyas D,

The only thing I can add would be ..

Try walking into Bangkok Bank and act like you know what your doing (confidently & politely), and apply for a savings account, get the Visa card option so you may draw from your account at any ATM worldwide.

I have been told that Bangkok Bank is best option from others in your position.

Lodes

JR Texas to OP: One legal option for you would be to get a letter from a Thai language school stating that you are in the country to learn Thai.....you can probably make that work for you for at least 6 months to one year.....but you have to pay for the courses and show up from time to time to keep in good standing. While learning Thai you can "take notes" about Thailand......notes that might turn into a book in the future. So, you are not in Thailand writing a book.....you are in Thailand learning the language. (And Thailand does not like foreigners doing investigative work or journalists, etc., so I would avoid trying to get a visa based on that.)

[Girlaboutglobe]

Hi, thank you all SO much for your input, that's the kind of thing that puts Thaivisa above all the other Thailand forums. Sorry to take so long to write my thanks but I wrote a great big long response and the power went out in the internet cafe before I could post it. Due to intense frustration I had to wait before I could do it over.

I'm pretty clear on my options now and I think I'll just head to Penang and get the tourist visa for now. As things shape up and I make more contacts other options may become more realistic, but for now as it was so aptly put "keep it simple".

Two things of interest (might be useful to others), the Thai Consulate in Canada offered to send me a tourist visa. The deal was to courier my passport and details (along with a return prepaid courier envelope) to them and they would send it back with the visa. For those who are unable or don't want to leave Thailand this may be an option with other nationalities as well. Worth checking out, and apparently it was only going to take a week or so.

The other thing is I did manage to secure a bank account after much running around. The following is an account of the experience for those who might find it useful.

Went to Sukhumvit Road, chosen because of the high-density of banks (if at first you don't succeed...) and the liklihood of finding English speakers familiar with non-resident accounts. Started on Soi 4 and made it all they way to Soi 24, visiting every SCB, BKKB, and KTB before successfully obtaining an account. I didn't try the Thai Millitary Bank or that red bank that starts with A.

SCB: Went to three different branches. At the first two it was standard "no work permit, no bank account). The third SCB bank almost let me, got to the point of filling out their forms, and then decided against it after all.

Bangkok Bank: Went to two different branches. The first branch said that if I got a letter from the Canadian Embassy restating all of the info on my passport and certifying that I was indeed who I said I was then I could open one if I brought both the letter and my passport. The second branch said "no work permit, no bank account." and then, "why don't you try Kasikorn.."

Krung Thai Bank: tried two branches, the first one was the flat out "no work permit, no bank account", the second one thought about it for a long time, smiling, conferring among themselves, occasionally giggling, and then decided not to approve it without a work permit.

Kasikorn Bank: tried one branch. Amazingly they acted like they wanted my business and were very helpful and made everything very easy. It was almost weird after going to seven banks who wanted nothing to do with me or my money. 10 minutes, one form, a passport showing, a 200B deposit and 300B fee for the ATM card later I was back out into the world with an active ATM card and a savings account.

Needless to say, anyone asking my advice on this issue will be recommended to Kasikorn bank without hesitation.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Girlaboutglobe

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Hi, thank you all SO much for your input, that's the kind of thing that puts Thaivisa above all the other Thailand forums. Sorry to take so long to write my thanks but I wrote a great big long response and the power went out in the internet cafe before I could post it. Due to intense frustration I had to wait before I could do it over.

I'm pretty clear on my options now and I think I'll just head to Penang and get the tourist visa for now. As things shape up and I make more contacts other options may become more realistic, but for now as it was so aptly put "keep it simple".

Kasikorn Bank: tried one branch. Amazingly they acted like they wanted my business and were very helpful and made everything very easy. It was almost weird after going to seven banks who wanted nothing to do with me or my money. 10 minutes, one form, a passport showing, a 200B deposit and 300B fee for the ATM card later I was back out into the world with an active ATM card and a savings account.

Needless to say, anyone asking my advice on this issue will be recommended to Kasikorn bank without hesitation.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Girlaboutglobe

Danille

If you've not heard the expression "TiT" as yet, it simply means, "This is Thailand," and things sometimes work in strange and wonderful ways here.

Mac

[Lite Beer]

Two things of interest (might be useful to others), the Thai Consulate in Canada offered to send me a tourist visa. The deal was to courier my passport and details (along with a return prepaid courier envelope) to them and they would send it back with the visa. For those who are unable or don't want to leave Thailand this may be an option with other nationalities as well. Worth checking out, and apparently it was only going to take a week or so.

If you are talking about sending your passport out of Thailand this is highly illegal and could get you in big trouble.

Congrats on the bank acc. As said T I T. You will learn to live with this. (or not)

[bkk_mike]

Opening a bank account is very much a branch-specific function (without a work-permit).

If you use the same bank regularly taking out money from a credit card for instance, once they recognise you, you'd have less issues.

Just be thankful it's better than Japan. To open a bank account, you need an Alien resident card. To get the Alien Resident card, you need the immigration visa in your passport. And it can take two months to get the visa approval from their MFA if you apply in-country once you have a job offer. I was already working there for 3 months before I could open a bank account, and actually get paid locally. (and I was only there for 6 months).

[skyblues]

iv been in Thailand for bout 2 years and iv been doing the Visa exempt with no problems and even when they change it last year i still just get 3 visa exempt then go to Laos get a 60 day tourist visa then extend it by 30 days then go back onto Visa exempt for 3 times then back to a 60 day tourist.....pain in the arse but there you go and i can confirm that if you go to malaysia everytime not only do you not have to get a whole page visa like laos or cambodia they don't ask for onward travel documents as they do at the cambodian border..god thats just reminded me iv gotta go at the weekend..17 hours on a train..######

[Girlaboutglobe]

That's a really good point about not sending your passport out of country! I didn't particularly question it because it was suggested by a Thai embassy, but it's all very dodgy now that you mention it!

Thanks for all the great info! It's good to know you can renew those tourist visas repeatedly for a long time, it's not too bad all in all. I'm definitely going to get it done in Malaysia, it sounds like one of the better options. I too will be going by rail... but I kinda dig the train, it's not so bad when you sleep for 8-10 hours of it! I have to say, if you gotta keep leaving and coming back, at least there are a lot of (often inexpensive) options for doing it!

With the bank thing, it's dodgy and all, but in the end it only took a day. Compared to the apparent agony of the Japanese system, you really can't complain. I have to say, subsequent interactions with K Bank's been pretty good-as long as you've got your passbook it seems like you can go to pretty well any branch and have an easy time of things. I haven't had to do anything especially complicated yet (I suspect you'd need to go to your home branch for that), but deposits and withdrawls have been no trouble at all.

Yep I'm familiar with "TIT", and it's so true-you pretty well just have to adapt yourself to it, eh? Ah it's all part of the fun, and you can pretty well always figure out a way to get a thing done if your motivation is high enough. Besides there are a lot of places that would be a lot harder to get by in and wouldn't be half as nice as Thailand either.

Cheers!

girlaboutglobe