BREXIT is fuelling Britain's cost of living crisis, according to the former Deputy Governor at the Bank of England

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

Back to the OP: 

For anyone genuinely interested in the cause of the UK 'cost of living crisis':

 

Prominent figures such as Lord King of Lothbury, one of the Bank of England’s former governors, have accused it of fuelling price rises with excessive quantitative easing (aka money printing).

 

Now a group of economic thinkers – including Geoff Blanning, a former investment manager at Schroders, Dr Eamonn Butler, the director of the Adam Smith Institute, and Mark Littlewood, the director general of the Institute of Economic Affairs – has written to the Chancellor demanding a shake-up of the Bank.

In their letter, the coalition said: “We are living through an overwhelming cost of living squeeze, and millennials are likely to be the first generation since before the Industrial Revolution to be poorer than their parents.

“This is in large part because since the financial crash of 2008, the Bank of England has been creating new money out of thin air to fund the Government’s promises.

“Since March 2009, the money supply has surged by over 50 per cent from the Bank’s actions alone, and half of this – £400 billion – took place in 2020-21 to fund lockdowns.”

The letter accused the Government and the Bank of being “jointly complicit” in a “debt explosion”.

 

“More money in the system, without more goods and services being produced, leads to rising prices which hurts those on low incomes the most – especially young people and pensioners,” it said.

“It erodes people’s savings, reduces real terms wages and makes houses increasingly unaffordable for first-time buyers. Meanwhile, inequality increases as those with the most assets – especially financial assets – enjoy undeserved gains.”

The letter claimed that the monetary system is “now out of control and needs reform”, with Mr Hunt urged to “create a fairer system, as well as a faster growing economy with low inflation, by removing the power of the Bank of England to create unlimited quantities of new money”.

To do this, they recommended an amendment to the 1998 Bank of England Act, giving the Bank a single objective to “maintain the value of the Pound in savers’ bank accounts by whatever means necessary”.

 

Currently, the Bank has two goals: to achieve the Government’s target of keeping inflation at two per cent (LOLs), while also supporting “the Government’s economic policy, including its objectives on growth and employment”.

The letter concluded: “The era of magic money creation (quantitative easing) must come to an end if we want to eliminate the risk of chronic or runaway inflation and return this country to an era of confidence and prosperity.”

 

TLDR BoE prints money = CoL Crisis

Brexit my ass!

Brexiteers wanted to turn the clock back - and they have - the current generation are going to be poorer than their parents -even the Telegraph agrees! Britain is back to being the sick man of Europe just like before we joined.

[vinny41]

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

not the conclusion I would have come to.

It isn't the salary and conditions, it's the fact they can no longer live and work in the UK without copious documentation etc after freedom of movement was e=nded.

Of course it applies to UK workers who want to move abroad too

Gerhard Huemer of SMEUnited said: “What we see most of is Eastern Europeans having returned home during the pandemic and choosing not to head back to Western Europe now.”

Indeed, some companies are already offering better working conditions. According to a survey by the Manpower group, for example, 64% of companies in Slovenia are planning to raise wages.https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/labour-shortages-felt-all-over-europe/

Reading this and you will understand why they didn't come back

Eastern European workers: exploitation in the construction industry and enforcement by regulatory agencies

Gangmasters from Romania who have trafficked and exploited construction workers and been found to have imposed oppressive conditions in order to reap financial rewards have been prosecuted under the Modern Slavery Act. In R v David Lugar,^[25] the defendant was convicted at the Inner London Crown Court on seven counts of holding another person in slavery or servitude or requiring them to perform fraud and compulsory labour.

https://www.ibanet.org/clint-june-2021-eastern-european-workers-exploitation-construction-regulation-enforcement
 

Similar exploitation happens in the farming industry

six Lithuanian nationals, who were agricultural workers, filed a lawsuit in the UK against DJ Hougton Chicken Catching Services, accusing the company of human trafficking. The claimants alleged that they were trafficked to the UK with the involvement of a Lithuanian national who was paid for this service by the defendants. On arrival in the UK, the claimants say they were severely exploited by the company, based in Kent,

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

 

Yes, Brexit probably cost a little but nothing in comparison to the nu flu nonsense or this Slava Ukraine BS which replaced it as the main tax money laudering/draining scam.

According to the data, to date Covid has affected the UK economy more than Brexit which, in turn, has had a greater effect than the war in Ukraine.

 

(I've posted the supporting links previously. I can't be bothered to post the same thing every time the comment about Covid and the Ukraine war appears)

 

I don't understand what effect Brexit has meant to have had on money laundering?

 

3 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

 

Let it go.  If happened almost 8 years ago.  You lot are WAY PAST boring.

Simple solution: If you find 'Us lot' boring, don't engage with or listen to us.

 

3 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

 

So please let it go & get a life.  

Life's not too bad for me personally, but it was better when the UK was in the EU. It could be improved for me now by not having to deal with small but tedious and unnecessary irritations e.g. at border control when travelling to the continent. I understand that is not a good enough reason to reverse Brexit, but the on-going damage being done to the UK economy and the withdrawal of opportunities for future generations are.

 

3 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

 

We can all cry about things that didn't go our way years ago but it's not helpful or constructive.

Neither is it helpful or constructive to ignore mistakes especially when they can be rectified.

[ICU Kid]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

Simple solution: If you find 'Us lot' boring, don't engage with or listen to us.

 

You're actually right on this point.

 

You lot aren't as bad as the perma-masked nutters on the convid19 threads but fixating on a democratic decision from 2016 is just as weird.

 

If you love the EU so much just go and live there.   

As another poster mentioned it's STILL possible for UK nationals to work in the EU *BUT* they'll only take people with skills / are no longer taking all and sundry which is fair enough imho.

 

If they won't have you, let it go for your own mental health. 

 

Bon voyage / Beuna fortuna

No dejes que la puerta te golpee al salir

Edited July 2, 2023 by ICU Kid

[Gaccha]

12 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

Nonsense.  The EU is ruled by an unelected commission & an unaudited central bank.

The EU project is ALL about the centralisation of power,

The problem with being ignorant is that there is a fallacious tendency to view your own ignorance as somehow proof that the other side is wrong. That is, until you read my post you had no idea that a general principle of the EU is the localisation of power away from each country's ruling classes.

 

Your lack of awareness of this does not mean that you were right. It should have provided a giant hint to you that you are wrong.

 

As for your alternative favouring of an absurd extreme far right conspiracy theory, that in itself demonstrates your cluelessness. 

 

Please do not try and understand the EU from The Sun newspaper and The Daily Express. You are being gamed. Almost the only organisation trying to make workers lives better was the EU.

 

The EU was a very useful scapegoat for the ruling class of the UK. And this is why you have such a negative opinion against it. They have taught you, like a Pavlovian dog, to instinctively oppose it. Now that the UK is no longer part of the EU, the ruling classes have run out of people to blame. Fun times ahead.

[youreavinalaff]

20 hours ago, kwilco said:

You have absolutely no idea.

"it was quite easy" - that's half the point - those already here had an opportunity to sign up to j=keep their job - that's not how it works - you want to be a fluid part of the work force and not worry about immigration status etc every time you move.

 

what if you lose your job? Have a family to look after? - Foreign people are just not welcome in the UK anymore

 

I worked in UK and Europe at the same time - it is now impossible for my job to exist. THe paperwork is a MASSIVE barrier to freedom of movement - that's why we have lost such a huge chunk from out work force. If you want to work in a country your really  don't need all the paperowork - just look at THailand how insecure working here can be and how full of red tape.

I work with many people who have settlement. They can chop and change all they want.

 

They are very happy here and don't understand why anyone would have left if was not for inability to provide tax payment records.

 

Now also working with many new immigrants on their visit year here. Also very happy to be here. 

[youreavinalaff]

20 hours ago, sirineou said:

What do you think the U in the UK stands for? Its just a smaller union.

United.

[youreavinalaff]

19 hours ago, RayC said:

I don't know how easy it was for EU nationals to get settled status, but it is not that straightforward for EU nationals to now immigrate to the UK, especially when you consider that pre-Brexit, the process was basically 1) buy flight/ Eurostar ticket 2) Remember to take ID card/ passport.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-uks-points-based-immigration-system-information-for-eu-citizens

Exactly. A bit more scrutiny and tax an NI payments required when working. 

 

It works for many Non EU citizens. Why does it put EU citizens off? 

Edited July 3, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[sirineou]

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

United.

Do you not make a union by uniting?

[RayC]

8 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

You're actually right on this point.

And yet you still continue to engage in a discussion with me?

 

8 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

 

 .... fixating on a democratic decision from 2016 is just as weird

What is weird is burying your head in the sand and not considering the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the wrong decision was reached and that we might consider changing it.

 

8 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

 

If you love the EU so much just go and live there.

Thanks for the advice. The wife retires in a couple of years and that's one of the options.

 

8 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

   As another poster mentioned it's STILL possible for UK nationals to work in the EU *BUT* they'll only take people with skills / are no longer taking all and sundry which is fair enough imho.

You seem to think that the Single Market has ceased to exist? Just to be clear, freedom of movement still operates for the nationals of the remaining (no pun intended) 27 member states. The UK in its' wisdom decided that it would be a good idea to limit the job opportunities available to its' nationals.

 

8 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

If they won't have you, let it go for your own mental health. 

Thanks for caring. I'm pretty sure that one of the EU countries will have us if we decide that's what we want.

 

Concentrate on your own mental well-being: You appear to have a problem coping with those who don't share your views.

 

8 hours ago, ICU Kid said:

Bon voyage / Beuna fortuna

No dejes que la puerta te golpee al salir

Thanks but a bit premature for that.

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Exactly. A bit more scrutiny and tax an NI payments required when working. 

What was preventing HMRC investigating matters if 'cash-in-hand' payment jobs were considered a major problem when we were in the EU?

 

15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

It works for many Non EU citizens. Why does it put EU citizens off? 

I would have thought that the answer was obvious.

 

The freedom to move as and when the individual wants, without restriction, without administrative costs (financial and time) and the ability to arrive in a country and then search for a job and move between jobs (I e. have the same rights as nationals), is a lot more attractive than having to jump through administrative hoops (e.g. find a job and sponsor in advance) with possible additional financial costs to the individual.

 

[youreavinalaff]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

What was preventing HMRC investigating matters if 'cash-in-hand' payment jobs were considered a major problem when we were in the EU?

 

I would have thought that the answer was obvious.

 

The freedom to move as and when the individual wants, without restriction, without administrative costs (financial and time) and the ability to arrive in a country and then search for a job and move between jobs (I e. have the same rights as nationals), is a lot more attractive than having to jump through administrative hoops (e.g. find a job and sponsor in advance) with possible additional financial costs to the individual.

 

So, because it's not easy, they don't want to do it. Ahhhhhh didums. 

 

Imagine how many expats would be leaving Thailand if they felt the same.

 

As for preventing cash in hand payments, people tend not to shout about them from the rooftops. 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

I work with many people who have settlement. They can chop and change all they want.

 

They are very happy here and don't understand why anyone would have left if was not for inability to provide tax payment records.

 

Now also working with many new immigrants on their visit year here. Also very happy to be here. 

no they can't.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, because it's not easy, they don't want to do it. Ahhhhhh didums. 

A very mature reaction!

 

You asked why EU nationals might be less inclined to immigrate to the UK post-Brexit. I gave you some reasons. 

 

Hardly my fault that this doesn't fit your narrative.

 

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

Imagine how many expats would be leaving Thailand if they felt the same.

What is the relevance of this comment? What have the requirements, which Thailand places on ex-pats got to do with a discussion about the UK and EU?

 

(And before you go off on another tangent, I'm aware that this is a Thai based forum).

 

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

As for preventing cash in hand payments, people tend not to shout about them from the rooftops. 

Obviously but that doesn't explain why you imply that evading tax and NI contributions were less scrutinized when the UK was an EU member compared to post-Brexit.

Edited July 3, 2023 by RayC
Grammar

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, RayC said:

Obviously but that doesn't explain why you imply that evading tax and NI contributions were less scrutinized when the UK was an EU member compared to post-Brexit.

No visa for working EU citizens in the UK without submitting tax details after Brexit. 

Before brexit they could enter without a visa. 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

no they can't.

Well, I've seen it happen.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

A very mature reaction!

 

You asked why EU nationals might be less inclined to immigrate to the UK post-Brexit. I gave you some reasons. 

 

Hardly my fault that this doesn't fit your narrative.

Thanks. 

 

Just saying it as I see it. 

 

1 hour ago, RayC said:

What is the relevance of this comment? What have the requirements, which Thailand places on ex-pats got to do with a discussion about the UK and EU?

 

(And before you go off on another tangent, I'm aware that this is a Thai based forum).

A simple comparison. 

 

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Obviously but that doesn't explain why you imply that evading tax and NI contributions were less scrutinized when the UK was an EU member compared to post-Brexit.

I've never said they were less scrutinized. When EU citizens were here pre Brexit, there was no need to show proof of tax payments. T o stay after Brexit they gad to. That's all.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

No visa for working EU citizens in the UK without submitting tax details after Brexit. 

Before brexit they could enter without a visa. 

 

36 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Thanks. 

 

Just saying it as I see it. 

 

A simple comparison. 

 

I've never said they were less scrutinized. When EU citizens were here pre Brexit, there was no need to show proof of tax payments. T o stay after Brexit they gad to. That's all.

If an employer is honest, they are obliged to deduct tax and NI contributions from their employees. The nationality of the employee is therefore irrelevant.

 

Verstappen won another Grand Prix and England lost another cricket test yesterday. Just a simple comparison.

Edited July 3, 2023 by RayC
Correction

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

If an employer is honest, they are obliged to deduct tax and NI contributions from their employees. The nationality of the employee is therefore irrelevant.

 

Schumacher won another Grand Prix and England lost another cricket test yesterday. Just a simple comparison.

I doubt Schumacher won anything. He's in a coma.

 

As far as honest employers, I agree.

 

What do you think about dishonest employers? I guess you are right. Nationality of employees us irrelevant. That is until non UK nationals need a new visa.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

What do you think about dishonest employers?

If they are caught then they should be prosecuted.

 

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I guess you are right. Nationality of employees us irrelevant. That is until non UK nationals need a new visa.

Why is that relevant? And if it is, what is the difference between the situation pre- and post-Brexit?

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

If they are caught then they should be prosecuted.

 

Why is that relevant? And if it is, what is the difference between the situation pre- and post-Brexit?

I'm not going to explain again. You are trying to create obstacles that simply are not there.

[RayC]

12 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm not going to explain again. You are trying to create obstacles that simply are not there.

???? Same old, same old.

 

When it is clearly shown - and you realise - that your premise and/or argument is flawed, you accuse the person who has challenged you of being disingenuous, rather than either admit your mistake or simply let it drop.

[youreavinalaff]

33 minutes ago, RayC said:

???? Same old, same old.

 

When it is clearly shown - and you realise - that your premise and/or argument is flawed, you accuse the person who has challenged you of being disingenuous, rather than either admit your mistake or simply let it drop.

Not at all.

 

Firstly, you commented that EU citizens don't come to work in UK anymore as everything has changed with regards to paper work and visas.

 

Then, you ask:

 

"What is the difference between the situation pre- and post-Brexit?" , with regards to tax payments. (after I'd already explained)

 

You are going round in circles.

 

 

[RayC]

11 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not at all.

 

Firstly, you commented that EU citizens don't come to work in UK anymore as everything has changed with regards to paper work and visas.

 

Then, you ask:

 

"What is the difference between the situation pre- and post-Brexit?" , with regards to tax payments. (after I'd already explained)

 

You are going round in circles.

 

 

Nothing like taking quotes out of context, is there?

 

Firstly, you questioned why EU nationals should be put off from mitigating to the UK post-Brexit. I pointed out the blindingly obvious fact that the withdrawal of freedom of movement had created a barrier to entry which did not previously exist.

 

In the same post, you stated that, ".. a bit more scrutiny on tax and NI payments required when working". The implication being that this was not possible and/or more difficult pre-Brexit. I replied that there was nothing to prevent the UK authorities increasing their focus on tax avoidance pre-Brexit and that, moreover, it is the employer's responsibility to ensure that their employees are made known to HMRC. Again, this is no different pre- and post-Brexit. 

 

Finally, you state that, "nationality of employees is irrelevant. That is until non-UK nationals need a new visa." When I ask you to explain this somewhat cryptic comment, you accuse me of creating ".. obstacles that are simply not there"!!! (huh?).

 

I'm not going round in circles. I'm trying to navigate the 'Alice in Wonderland' environment which you create.

[youreavinalaff]

8 hours ago, RayC said:

Nothing like taking quotes out of context, is there?

 

Firstly, you questioned why EU nationals should be put off from mitigating to the UK post-Brexit. I pointed out the blindingly obvious fact that the withdrawal of freedom of movement had created a barrier to entry which did not previously exist.

 

In the same post, you stated that, ".. a bit more scrutiny on tax and NI payments required when working". The implication being that this was not possible and/or more difficult pre-Brexit. I replied that there was nothing to prevent the UK authorities increasing their focus on tax avoidance pre-Brexit and that, moreover, it is the employer's responsibility to ensure that their employees are made known to HMRC. Again, this is no different pre- and post-Brexit. 

 

Finally, you state that, "nationality of employees is irrelevant. That is until non-UK nationals need a new visa." When I ask you to explain this somewhat cryptic comment, you accuse me of creating ".. obstacles that are simply not there"!!! (huh?).

 

I'm not going round in circles. I'm trying to navigate the 'Alice in Wonderland' environment which you create.

That is funny. You've gone round so many corners to twist what I said you've disappeared up your own backside.

 

Sad if not so funny.

[RayC]

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

That is funny. You've gone round so many corners to twist what I said you've disappeared up your own backside.

 

Sad if not so funny.

If you can show where I have misinterpreted your comments, I will withdraw my remarks and apologise.

[Hi from France]

On 6/23/2023 at 1:48 AM, Social Media said:

Campaigners promised leaving the EU would make the country richer and freer.

 

Brexit is fuelling Britain's cost of living crisis, according to the former Deputy Governor at the Bank of England Sir Charlie Bean.

 

Interviewed by BBC Radio 4 on Thursday, the economist said inflation appeared to be "worse" in Britain compared to other European countries. 

When asked why, he explained the labour market was "much tighter" than on the continent, reflecting the exodus of half a million workers during the COVID pandemic. 

 

"Brexit has made it harder for firms to suck in the extra labour they need at short notice from abroad," he said. 

Labour shortages create inflationary pressure as businesses have to compete more by offering higher salaries, which feed into the economy. 

 

Unemployment was at a historically low level of 3.8% in April, according to the Office for National Statistics, with the number of vacancies at record highs last year. 

Brexit has made it harder for EU nationals to come and work in Britain, though COVID also triggered many foreign workers to return home. 

A series of suggestions by Adam Posen: the UK now has "little time for delusions of grandeur". 

 

Quote

First is you have to be more straight and narrow on your macro policies, not austerity, not self-destructive austerity, but you have to be more cautious – not to be like Truss and Kwarteng, not promising to spend crazy amounts, because you’ve got less room for error. The markets will punish you.

 

“Second, you have to think in terms of structural reform. We, the UK, are world class in business services… we can attract all the world’s best students. We should be exporting those business services, those educational places, those cultural goods, lean into that, not waste money trying to be an industrial heavy-hitter.

 

“Third, going back to… austerity and public investment, the UK is at worst an emerging market. It’s not a developing country. It’s not a ruined country. You know, there is room to do public investment. The UK needs to prioritise the NHS, public transport, the power grid, water. [It has] to do better on nutrition for poor kids.

There are basic things that everybody recognises need doing.”

 

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/when-it-comes-to-brexit-things-can-only-get-worse/

Edited July 12, 2023 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

20 hours ago, Hi from France said:

A series of suggestions by Adam Posen: the UK now has "little time for delusions of grandeur". 

 

 

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/when-it-comes-to-brexit-things-can-only-get-worse/

readable link : https://archive.ph/gm6Qy

 

 

another interesting piece of advice

Quote

The problem is that the UK is currently sailing in exactly the opposite direction, driven on by an urge to be a player on the world stage. Meanwhile the NHS is crumbling, education and training are underfunded, Thames Water is a basket case, the energy crisis hit the UK harder than most, and children are going hungry. “It’s actually getting worse,” Posen says.

 

There is, of course, an elephant in the room – an obvious answer to many of these problems. “You’ve got to de facto move to a much softer Brexit as quickly as possible on a unilateral basis, you’ve got to start looking more like Norway and Switzerland, for the sake of the British people and the British economy,” he says. That means not seeking to distance the UK economy from EU standards on food and agricultural products, keeping the CE mark and not creating our own, abiding by EU chemical safety rules and a dozen other things.

 

“Once you’re actually doing that, it will have real near-term effects, it will not require negotiations with the EU to implement, and will alleviate some of the investment and business planning uncertainty because you’re saying, we’re not going to diverge in this industry or that industry or that regulation. Then you can start talking about re-joining, not from a political sense, but from the economic point of view, unilaterally moving as fast as possible to maintain regulatory single market-type alignment, be more like a European Free Trade Agreement country. That’s the best thing you can do…

 

 

 

 

 

another acknowledgement in the ft 

Quote

 back in 2016, nobody used words like “friendshoring” or “de-risking”. In the Conservative party, talking up the importance of the UK-China relationship wasn’t a guaranteed way to hole your leadership ambitions below the waterline.

 

The trade-offs that come with being a small country outside the EU, the US or China’s orbits have become much sharper. Yes, some of the Conservative party’s critics of modern capitalism have been making these arguments long before 2016. But the reason why they are in the ascendancy is that the double whammy of the UK’s exit from the EU and the changes in global politics since then means that the Conservative party’s old economic model is no longer available, and the one that many of them imagined seizing after Brexit looks out of reach as well.

https://archive.md/4DdFw

[Kwasaki]

11 hours ago, Hi from France said:

readable link : https://archive.ph/gm6Qy

 

 

another interesting piece of advice

 

 

 

 

 

another acknowledgement in the ft 

https://archive.md/4DdFw

Do you have any rubber dinghies for sale.

[RayC]

9 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Do you have any rubber dinghies for sale.

Probably better off buying them in Margate unless you want to involve yourself in a lot of red tape????