Divorce in Court Wife does not want to sign at the Ampur

[node]

I would like to know my options, and knowledge from others that had similar experience. 

When through a (3) yrs divorce case at Thai court with Thai wife. Marriage registered and signed at the Thai Embassy where we were both were living at the time, and also  registered in Thailand.

The court give the ruling of the divorce and handed me a legal copy of same. 

Now to get this bit of "Divorce Certificate" at the Ampur here as she does not want to sign. All said, she was the one that applied to the court for a divorced and I happily agreed. Court was because we have a kid not born here but in the marriage. She wanted Sole Custody and the Thai court said no to her.

I would like to know.

 

1). Forget this bit at the Ampur as, this divorce certificate is only valid here in Thailand written in Thai and required to show one's status here really, and no other country cares about that.

Only the Thai court order is their importance. Translated and stamped my the MFA of Thailand.

Also I have no desire to remarry in Thailand. 

 

2). So translate the Thai court order, which clearly states you are divorced blah blah. Take that to MFA after translation as it was handed down by the Thai court get it legalized use that as my Divorce any other part of the planet except Thailand. Which would state I am a divorce person. Should I ever have to show that elsewhere as being divorced.

 

I know in Thailand one require a Divorce certificate from the Ampur to be consider divorce here in Thailand. But that really is only valid in Thailand. 

Again I have no desire to remarry here in Thailand, hence I honestly do not need a divorce certificate from any Ampur. But to be considered legally divorced elsewhere.

3). Is there a time limit here for her to sign or that can be forever? Just asking as the Ampur does not have a clue about any court.

 

[tomazbodner]

Can you claim abandonment?

[bkk6060]

OMG you are here asking for some serious legal advice?  I assume you never had an attorney and think free advice from anonymous know littles is the way to go?

Rules and laws and opinions change all the time please, the best thing for you and your kid is to seek professional legal advice to make sure the situation is resolved appropriately. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, node said:

I would like to know my options, and knowledge from others that had similar experience. 

When through a (3) yrs divorce case at Thai court with Thai wife. Marriage registered and signed at the Thai Embassy where we were both were living at the time, and also  registered in Thailand.

The court give the ruling of the divorce and handed me a legal copy of same. 

Now to get this bit of "Divorce Certificate" at the Ampur here as she does not want to sign. All said, she was the one that applied to the court for a divorced and I happily agreed. Court was because we have a kid not born here but in the marriage. She wanted Sole Custody and the Thai court said no to her.

I would like to know.

 

1). Forget this bit at the Ampur as, this divorce certificate is only valid here in Thailand written in Thai and required to show one's status here really, and no other country cares about that.

Only the Thai court order is their importance. Translated and stamped my the MFA of Thailand.

Also I have no desire to remarry in Thailand. 

 

2). So translate the Thai court order, which clearly states you are divorced blah blah. Take that to MFA after translation as it was handed down by the Thai court get it legalized use that as my Divorce any other part of the planet except Thailand. Which would state I am a divorce person. Should I ever have to show that elsewhere as being divorced.

 

I know in Thailand one require a Divorce certificate from the Ampur to be consider divorce here in Thailand. But that really is only valid in Thailand. 

Again I have no desire to remarry here in Thailand, hence I honestly do not need a divorce certificate from any Ampur. But to be considered legally divorced elsewhere.

3). Is there a time limit here for her to sign or that can be forever? Just asking as the Ampur does not have a clue about any court.

 

What about if she starts making debts and you don't have the Ampur paper that you are divorced?

[Farma]

My lawyer took the court order and collected my divorce certificate 

 

The signature areas say court order in lieu

 

She only found out it was finalised a year later when she contacted me asking to finalise the divorce. Her lawyer had neglected to tell her.

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

OMG you are here asking for some serious legal advice?  I assume you never had an attorney and think free advice from anonymous know littles is the way to go?

Rules and laws and opinions change all the time please, the best thing for you and your kid is to seek professional legal advice to make sure the situation is resolved appropriately. 

Agree and be sure to get anything the lawayer says / does fully documented and in both languages and properly signed and witnessed. And any copy in English read it slowly and carefully to ensure it not confusing or inconsistent in any way and can't be interpretd in different way by different people.

 

Yes a tall order but it may push the lawyer to be serious and professional. 

[node]

2 hours ago, Farma said:

My lawyer took the court order and collected my divorce certificate 

 

The signature areas say court order in lieu

 

She only found out it was finalised a year later when she contacted me asking to finalise the divorce. Her lawyer had neglected to tell her.

I love this. The court order clearly start we are divorced at the Thai court blah blah. I paid enough money to Thai lawyers and 95% does not have a clue of the Thai law.

Even the Judge who did the divorce had the Thai Appeal court cancelled the Judgement on the ground that the divorce was illegal as per the Thai Law. 

So much for Lawyers that know this law.

A next one & judge wanted me to accept an order from a place I do not belong to, of course I refused that. 

One of the thing I did going into this is to understand Thailand law well. A divorce certificate means nothing to me. I am divorce according to the Thai court and order.

[KhaoNiaw]

Are you sure that you need her at the ampur if you have the court order already? Someone else has already suggested that you don't. You need to be together if you actually divorce at the ampur but otherwise will they only issue the certificates if you're both there? I suppose it's an unusual case where someone asks for and goes through with the divorce but then refuses to pick up the certificate. 

[JensenX]

5 hours ago, node said:

I would like to know my options, and knowledge from others that had similar experience. 

When through a (3) yrs divorce case at Thai court with Thai wife. Marriage registered and signed at the Thai Embassy where we were both were living at the time, and also  registered in Thailand.

The court give the ruling of the divorce and handed me a legal copy of same. 

Now to get this bit of "Divorce Certificate" at the Ampur here as she does not want to sign. All said, she was the one that applied to the court for a divorced and I happily agreed. Court was because we have a kid not born here but in the marriage. She wanted Sole Custody and the Thai court said no to her.

I would like to know.

 

1). Forget this bit at the Ampur as, this divorce certificate is only valid here in Thailand written in Thai and required to show one's status here really, and no other country cares about that.

Only the Thai court order is their importance. Translated and stamped my the MFA of Thailand.

Also I have no desire to remarry in Thailand. 

 

2). So translate the Thai court order, which clearly states you are divorced blah blah. Take that to MFA after translation as it was handed down by the Thai court get it legalized use that as my Divorce any other part of the planet except Thailand. Which would state I am a divorce person. Should I ever have to show that elsewhere as being divorced.

 

I know in Thailand one require a Divorce certificate from the Ampur to be consider divorce here in Thailand. But that really is only valid in Thailand. 

Again I have no desire to remarry here in Thailand, hence I honestly do not need a divorce certificate from any Ampur. But to be considered legally divorced elsewhere.

3). Is there a time limit here for her to sign or that can be forever? Just asking as the Ampur does not have a clue about any court.

 

I don't believe you need a divorce certificate from a district office as you had a judgement in court. That is your legal divorce. The Amphur divorce certificate is what you get if you get an administrative, consensual divorce at a district office. It's either one or the other, not both. I got one last week actually (mutual concent divorce sections 1514 & 1515 Chapter VI of the Thai divorce law)

 

Best to talk to a lawyer. If you're in Pattaya, I can put you onto a competent family lawyer who speaks English better than most expats. If you're not in Pattaya, he has agents in Bangkok to quickly organise any paper work you might require, such as certifcation of an English translation of your divorce judgement by the MFA.

 

If you reported the marriage in your home country, you may or may not be legally divorced. Some countries require marriage and divorce to be reported, some don't. 

 

There's a lot of good information here to get you up to speed:

 

https://www.the-social-lawyers-company.com/how-to-divorce-in-Thailand.html

 

 

[node]

1 hour ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Are you sure that you need her at the ampur if you have the court order already? Someone else has already suggested that you don't. You need to be together if you actually divorce at the ampur but otherwise will they only issue the certificates if you're both there? I suppose it's an unusual case where someone asks for and goes through with the divorce but then refuses to pick up the certificate. 

To answer your first question, apparently the Ampur feel this way and I think mixing up the rules. As there is a court order that clearly stay we are divorced by the Thai court on such and such date.

On your second question.I did not confirmed with the Ampur but I gathered she will only grant that certificate if both are there together to sign her certificate. Fail to verify this my bad. 

Sure is if you asked me 

 

[node]

18 minutes ago, JensenX said:

I don't believe you need a divorce certificate from a district office as you had a judgement in court. That is your legal divorce. The Amphur divorce certificate is what you get if you get an administrative, consensual divorce at a district office. It's either one or the other, not both. I got one last week actually (mutual concent divorce sections 1514 & 1515 Chapter VI of the Thai divorce law)

 

Best to talk to a lawyer. If you're in Pattaya, I can put you onto a competent family lawyer who speaks English better than most expats. If you're not in Pattaya, he has agents in Bangkok to quickly organise any paper work you might require, such as certifcation of an English translation of your divorce judgement by the MFA.

 

If you reported the marriage in your home country, you may or may not be legally divorced. Some countries require marriage and divorce to be reported, some don't. 

 

There's a lot of good information here to get you up to speed:

 

https://www.the-social-lawyers-company.com/how-to-divorce-in-Thailand.html

 

 

My country requires to see a divorce court order and any judgement handed down by the court. Which is what I have in Thai. That will be translated and get legalized by the MFA which they will recognized. 

As we all know it is very difficult for Thais to say oh we made a mistake the court already divorce you, so you do not need a certificate from us as we did not divorce you.

You can just translate this court order and get it legalized.

From what I know and this is not my first rodeo in divorce; all countries are interested in decree absolute from the Court or Ampur.

Thanks for the link will take a look

 I am in Bangkok you can PM me if you like.

[MrJ2U]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

What about if she starts making debts and you don't have the Ampur paper that you are divorced?

Scary thought.

 

All the reason for asking a divorce lawyer.   Probably not to expensive since the OP only has some questions and doneost of the legwork already. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by MrJ2U

[JensenX]

14 minutes ago, node said:

My country requires to see a divorce court order and any judgement handed down by the court. Which is what I have in Thai. That will be translated and get legalized by the MFA which they will recognized. 

As we all know it is very difficult for Thais to say oh we made a mistake the court already divorce you, so you do not need a certificate from us as we did not divorce you.

You can just translate this court order and get it legalized.

From what I know and this is not my first rodeo in divorce; all countries are interested in decree absolute from the Court or Ampur.

Thanks for the link will take a look

 I am in Bangkok you can PM me if you like.

I don't know if a court judgement comes with a divorce cerficate or if one should be issued. I have a divorce certificate issued by the district court in Laksi. I have 2 documents: 1. Divorce Certificate. 2. Registration of Divorce. Both were translated to English and certified by MFA.

 

It would be easy enough to find out from my lawyer.

 

It is not true that all countries require to see divorce documents. There is no reporting of marriage in Australia, and a "free to marry" document to marry in Thailand is a statutory declaration that you're free to marry. They require that in Thailand if you're marrying here. The Australian govenment doesn't give a sh*t about it unless you apply for a visa to bring your wife to Australia. Other countries are very strict to the point they don't accept consensual divorce at a district office. 

 

Generally it's how divorces are legallized in the country of your citizenship that dictates what type of divorce you need to obtain in Thailand.

Edited July 18, 2023 by JensenX

[JensenX]

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Scary thought.

 

All the reason for asking a divorce lawyer.   Probably not to expensive since the OP only has some questions and doneost of the legwork already. 

You're right. My lawyer offered a free consulation.

[node]

If a Thai Juvenile or Family Appeal court did your divorce, you are divorce. 

They issue a divorce certificate stating same and a certificate of Judgement. 

The Ampur in a situation like this if one go there, is to registered that said divorce & judgement certificate that were issues by the court. Sign after confirming what they wrote on the certificate with an interrupter, and hand back the marriage certificate, and collect their certificate.

Some Ampur as stupid as they are require both parties to be there together and sign in front of them. But this is not written and am sure not the law.

[TimeMachine]

On 7/18/2023 at 4:49 PM, bkk6060 said:

OMG you are here asking for some serious legal advice?  I assume you never had an attorney and think free advice from anonymous know littles is the way to go?

Rules and laws and opinions change all the time please, the best thing for you and your kid is to seek professional legal advice to make sure the situation is resolved appropriately. 

The problem is professional honest advice is no longer offered.  Companies are rogue in that there only goal is to make money with the least amount of work.  I much prefer googling around and listening to everybodies stories. Having trust in one big name company that presents itself as a champion is fraught with danger. But as they say , to ones own choose a mobile phone. 

[node]

Just so all is clear. If a Thai court divorce you, you all are divorced. 

I went to a different Ampur; I called before and explained all the documents I am possession of. I was told that is all I needed and two Thai witnesses, one able to interrupt Thai to English correctly. 

No ex-wife has to be present. When, handed all documents, including my Marriage Certificate, confirmed all the Ampur typed, signed, collected my Divorce Certificate, and it was Registered.

I then asked, why the last Ampur required that my ex-wife be there? The Ampur said, "many do not know the law, but pretend they do".

[node]

Let me add; was also told, that the ex must go to the "SAME" Ampur to Register and collect that Certificate.

So my advice, get one Passport Certified by your Embassy,  send it off to translate into Thai, then take to MFA to get stamped, and just wait till the divorce is final. Collect the court Judgement Certificate,

then bolt to am Ampur with all documents, Register the divorce  & Collect the certificate.

One may asked why? If you live in Pattaya and the ex moved back to Chiang Mai and go to the Ampur there before you do, you must fly up there just to get this Registration done and collect the Divorce Certificate, as it must be done where the first Registered is done.

Just my two cents.

[luckyblock token]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:35 PM, node said:

Just so all is clear. If a Thai court divorce you, you all are divorced. 

I went to a different Ampur; I called before and explained all the documents I am possession of. I was told that is all I needed and two Thai witnesses, one able to interrupt Thai to English correctly. 

No ex-wife has to be present. When, handed all documents, including my Marriage Certificate, confirmed all the Ampur typed, signed, collected my Divorce Certificate, and it was Registered.

I then asked, why the last Ampur required that my ex-wife be there? The Ampur said, "many do not know the law, but pretend they do".

hello, how did you manage to divorce at a thai court? without ex wife?

I would like to do the same. I have lawyer but not the best. my ex does not accept my offer.

thank you

cheers Uli

[node]

6 hours ago, luckyblock token said:

hello, how did you manage to divorce at a thai court? without ex wife?

I would like to do the same. I have lawyer but not the best. my ex does not accept my offer.

thank you

cheers Uli

Firstly my ex-wife was in court. Secondly let me add, not sure where you are from, but some countries do not accept an Ampura divorce, only a court divorce, something you must be very careful with; your country might, the next person you might want to marry with, country may not.

Okay that's out the way. In Thailand there are only (10) things you can get a judge to divorce a couple in Thailand. I know few. One is abandonment of the family one (1) year. Separation for (3) yrs. Is another. However one is that a Thai Judge would divorce a couple if one is a foreigner and the foreigner home country would allow a Thai judge to divorce him or her. That is the easiest route for a foreigner even if married under Thai law.

That approval must come from your country courts and Legalized in your home country. It must then be then translated and certified into Thai and legalized by the Ministry Of Foreign Affairs (MFA). This is then taken to the Thai court and applied for a Divorce from your wife.