U.S. Retired Expats -- is there really any good reason to worry about your credit score any more?

[bignok]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't really have political reasons for this, but I also don't intend to repatriate. But I realize that push come to shove many expats that don't plan to end up going back anyway. Because of that I pay for Medicare Part B. 

As far as usefulness of a good credit score going back, my income wouldn't qualify to rent an apartment back there anyway regardless of the score. So  where would I live? I really don't know. 

What do you do in Pattaya day to day? Just stuff around relaxing?

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I have another "fun" sort of related question.

Many of us with U.S. credit cards do so while posing as U.S. residents and not revealing that we live abroad. 

Suppose you get a Thai credit card either a regular one or secured by a bank account deposit.

In that case, you would of course be giving them your Thai address.

Couldn't that cause a problem with your U.S. credit report as you're telling Visa or Mastercard that your residence is in the U.S. in one case, and abroad in another?

Visa & Mastercard are just the "Networks" that banks/merchants use to carry out transactions & as such don't have any of your Personal/Address details and the US/Thai Banks would not exchange personal/address details unless for some reason you asked them to. 

 

 

 

 

So having a Thai credit card would have no impact on your US cards (If it ever did, then chances are a lot of people would be screwed anyway as Bangkok Bank uses Mastercard Debit cards).

 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

8 minutes ago, Seamaster said:

Yes and yes.

 

It will continue to go up regardless if you repatriate. You're just not subject to penalities.

 

Why go back? To what? To live exactly where? In your particular case ... with what funds? If you don't have answers now what makes you believe you'll have better answers or alternatives years from now and under duress? Better to accept and to plan your life here / or if need be elsewhere in SEA.

 

I'm not going back. In fact, I'll let my US drs license lapse. Time to let it go.

 

My guess is banking will become a real challenge so we all may need to make big decisions.

 

An additional 175 a month. You could even squirrel it away towards medical or spend it on bimbos.

Thing is, $170/month times 12, and at ฿33/$ is ฿67,320 a year.

 

Good luck trying to find health insurance for a male 65+ in Thailand for that!

 

Always plan a bolt hole my friends

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thing is, $170/month times 12, and at ฿33/$ is ฿67,320 a year.

 

Good luck trying to find health insurance for a male 65+ in Thailand for that!

 

Always plan a bolt hole my friends

I turned down Part B because I have insurance through my last job, if not I'd be paying for it. But they get you if you start drawing your 401K money.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, Seamaster said:

Yes and yes.

 

It will continue to go up regardless if you repatriate. You're just not subject to penalities.

 

Why go back? To what? To live exactly where? In your particular case ... with what funds? If you don't have answers now what makes you believe you'll have better answers or alternatives years from now and under duress? Better to accept and to plan your life here / or if need be elsewhere in SEA.

 

I'm not going back. In fact, I'll let my US drs license lapse. Time to let it go.

 

My guess is banking will become a real challenge so we all may need to make big decisions.

 

An additional 175 a month. You could even squirrel it away towards medical or spend it on bimbos.

Maybe use your imagination a little bit about why many older people eventually do go back even though they never planned to. 

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Visa & Mastercard are just the "Networks" that banks/merchants use to carry out transactions & as such don't have any of your Personal/Address details and the US/Thai Banks would not exchange personal/address details unless for some reason you asked them to. 

 

 

 

 

So having a Thai credit card would have no impact on your US cards (If it ever did, then chances are a lot of people would be screwed anyway as Bangkok Bank uses Mastercard Debit cards).

 

 

 

Interesting. 

Well as you know U.S. credit reports list your current and previous addresses.

A debit card comes with a bank account.

I'm talking about getting an actual credit cards.

I still don't quite get how if you get a credit card in Thailand that it wouldn't end up being picked up on your U.S. credit report.

What's the situation for Thais and credit cards? Do they have some kind of credit reporting / scoring system here? 

[Mike Teavee]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Interesting. 

Well as you know U.S. credit reports list your current and previous addresses.

A debit card comes with a bank account.

I'm talking about getting an actual credit cards.

I still don't quite get how if you get a credit card in Thailand that it wouldn't end up being picked up on your U.S. credit report.

What's the situation for Thais and credit cards? Do they have some kind of credit reporting / scoring system here? 

The way to think of MC/Visa is purely as Networks where they do not keep any data about you, just the transaction that you've made which wouldn't have things like your Address, Age, DOB, SS number etc... so it would be impossible for them to match any of your transactions on 1 card with transactions on another card.  All "Real" data is held by the bank that issues the card.

 

 

AFAIK The only financial information Thailand shares with the US is the FACTA related stuff (I'm British so they share none of our financial information with the UK) so there is no credit score type information shared.

 

The only time I could see information being shared would be if you applied for a new card in the US & your US Card Company wanted to have a broader understanding of your financial position but if this was the case then it has nothing to do with cards being Visa or Mastercard it's just your bank doing a deeper dive into your wider finances. 

 

I can only say that this didn't happen to me when I got my (Singapore) Citibank credit cards, the only thing they were interested in was my income in Singapore... And in fact when I quit my job there to retire, they cancelled both cards despite me having 5 times the credit limit on deposit with them & offering to secure the cards with a "Secure Bond".

 

Edit: I am not 100% sure but I would bet that there isn't a central Credit Score system in Thailand, if there is then they're doing a pretty sh1tty job as they allowed my GF to have 9 cards and "Borrow" (Spend!) 135,000b on her 15,000 pm salary. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Do they have some kind of credit reporting / scoring system here? 

There is... But, I've never heard anything to suggest that the Thai credit reporting system is somehow linked to or interfaces with its U.S. counterpart.... It's primarily a domestic Thai system for Thai nationals.

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There is... But, I've never heard anything to suggest that the Thai credit reporting system is somehow linked to or interfaces with its U.S. counterpart.... It's primarily a domestic Thai system for Thai nationals.

 

I assume non-Thais that do have Thai based credit cards would be in that system as well.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I think the answer to that is too obvious to bother answering. 

Sorry.  It was not clear.

 

The only "pain" you take in relation to maintaining  your credit score that you mentioned was making timely payments.

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

The way to think of MC/Visa is purely as Networks where they do not keep any data about you, just the transaction that you've made which wouldn't have things like your Name, Address, Age, DOB, SS number etc... so it would be impossible for them to match any of your transactions on 1 card with transactions on another card.  All "Real" data is held by the bank that issues the card.

 

 

AFAIK The only financial information Thailand shares with the US is the FACTA related stuff (I'm British so they share none of our financial information with the UK) so there is no credit score type information shared.

 

The only time I could see information being shared would be if you applied for a new card in the US & your US Card Company wanted to have a broader understanding of your financial position but if this was the case then it has nothing to do with cards being Visa or Mastercard it's just your bank doing a deeper dive into your wider finances. 

 

I can only say that this didn't happen to me when I got my (Singapore) Citibank credit cards, the only thing they were interested in was my income in Singapore... And in fact when I quit my job there to retire, they cancelled both cards despite me having 5 times the credit limit on deposit with them & offering to secure the cards with a "Secure Bond".

OK, but US credit reports always list your current and previous addresses.

Plenty of places they could get that. 

Credit card applications, mortgages, etc.

I assume if you tell your U.S. credit card issuer that you now live in Thailand that they would put your Thai address in the U.S. report.

[Yellowtail]

I've have two US credit cards for over twenty years and one Thai credit card (down from three) for at least 15 years. I've also had to have replacements "overnighted" from the US several times. In retrospect I should have maintained the two Thai cards I let go. 

 

I don't understand how a US expat living in Thailand can hurt their US credit score unless you just quit paying your bills or some-such. It certainly does not cost anything to keep the score up. 

[connda]

3 hours ago, Seamaster said:

I'd run credit reports on myself two big corporation I forget which about 2010. They didn't even have me in db. Years leading up I'd dropped all credit cards. I've never carried loans.

I stopped trying to run credit reports as the companies (Experian et.al) ask obscure question about loan amounts and title companies and places I lived from freaking 20 to 40+ years ago.  I've none of those records anymore. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by connda

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

 

What's the situation for Thais and credit cards? Do they have some kind of credit reporting / scoring system here? 

Yes, there is a rudimentary credit reporting system here. Once a year a credit card holder will receive a document from his or her bank showing what has been reported to the credit agency during the year. Any delinquent payments will be shown.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK, but US credit reports always list your current and previous addresses.

Plenty of places they could get that. 

Credit card applications, mortgages, etc.

I assume if you tell your U.S. credit card issuer that you now live in Thailand that they would put your Thai address in the U.S. report.

I think that banks will probably use your last US address for any credit reporting to US credit agencies if you maintain a US credit card while using a foreign mailing address.

 

I think they will also comply with whatever banking and credit card regulations apply to your last state of residence as they have no realistic way of knowing and complying with foreign banking and CC regulations as they are not licensed outside the US or in some cases the state they operate in. 

 

But I will defer to anyone who has more experience or insight into this.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

About part Medicare B, I enrolled and maintain this because I like to visit the US for about a month a year, and in the event I end up repatriating. 

 

That said, if one's only income is Social Security and they have no real savings, I doubt it is worth paying for as I think they would qualify for further assistance. 

 

If one does have some savings, in the event they repatriated I think they could dump the savings in to buying a home, qualify for the assistance and hold onto their saving in equity.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Having and using credit cards doesn't necessarily mean the holder is carrying an debt. Many people use them and then pay off the balance at the next payment period with no interest accrued.

 

They're just a financial tool...that can be used wisely, or poorly, depending on the person.

 

And, a lot of credit cards have good benefits included such as cash back or airline mileage earnings that don't typically come with debit card use. So if the holder is a traveler, credit cards can have significant benefits over debit cards.

 

I use debit cards for daily / routine expenses. And credit cards for big ticket items to earn cash back, airline mileage, etc.

 

If you can make the airline mileage etc work for you, fine.

I simply can't be bothered, and prefer the mindset of knowing I don't owe anybody else on this planet anything.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, someone pays for your rewards.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

57 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I assume non-Thais that do have Thai based credit cards would be in that system as well.

Yes, they are.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

If you can make the airline mileage etc work for you, fine.

I simply can't be bothered, and prefer the mindset of knowing I don't owe anybody else on this planet anything.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, someone pays for your rewards.

You owe the electric company at least until the end of the month. 

 

 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I have a rather specific question.

Many expats including me opened an account at State Department Credit Union while living in Thailand.

Generally you can't open a new bank account while living abroad.

I've heard a number of people being rejected for a new account by SDFCU.

I wonder if they check credit scores as part of their screening process. 

 

This suggests that if you already have an account in good standing with a SDFCU you may be denied. Did any of these people suggest why it was declined? May not have been a credit issue. What address do you have as your SDFCU account address? AFAIK, the closest that any bank card issuer came to having a global view on credit worthiness were those that subscribed to HSBC's 'global' account malarkey and moved around.

 

Does SDFCU allow an account with a Thai address? Most US banks, same as UK banks, want a domestic 'home' address. The only people that seem to get a break on domicile are those wishing to open 'wealth management' accounts with the likes of Citibank in Singapore where $200,000+ assures that you can live anywhere and not have to worry about credit checks.

Edited July 30, 2023 by NanLaew

[Jingthing]

SDFCU will open accounts with passport as ID and no US address. That's generally unheard of otherwise. But they're rather a quirky outfit to deal with. Swift transfers online for 35.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

It certainly does not cost anything to keep the score up. 

What it "costs" is investing the personal time and commitment to keep U.S. credit cards in active/valid status over a period of potentially many years living abroad, and not have them expire for lack of use or being unable to show a U.S. residence address of some type.

 

After long periods of living abroad, some folks over time just let their links to the home country gradually lapse.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I assume non-Thais that do have Thai based credit cards would be in that system as well.

Correct.  But that still doesn't mean the Thai system interfaces with the U.S. credit reporting system.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

If you can make the airline mileage etc work for you, fine.

I simply can't be bothered, and prefer the mindset of knowing I don't owe anybody else on this planet anything.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, someone pays for your rewards.

Even if you don't take advantage of airline miles benefits, it's not that hard to gratefully accept 2% cash back on my travel expenses, or in the case of the actual U.S. credit card I use, 3% back on travel up to $1500 in charges per month. No annual fee and no foreign currency fee.

 

It's correct that those kinds of perks are paid for by the interest charged to card holders who run balances and accrue interest on credit card balances. But I don't ever do that, so it's all gravy for me.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Yellowtail]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

What it "costs" is investing the personal time and commitment to keep U.S. credit cards in active/valid status over a period of potentially many years living abroad, and not have them expire for lack of use or being unable to show a U.S. residence address of some type.

 

After long periods of living abroad, some folks over time just let their links to the home country gradually lapse.

 

I use my US credit cards, so maintaining them provides me benefits and does not cost me any money.

 

Again, I don't understand how a US expat living in Thailand long term can hurt their US credit score. I do not think a lack of financial activity lowers one's credit score. 

[Yellowtail]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Even if you don't take advantage of airline miles benefits, it's not that hard to gratefully accept 2% cash back on my travel expenses, or in the case of the actual U.S. credit card I use, 3% back on travel up to $1500 in charges per month. No annual fee and no foreign currency fee.

 

It's correct that those kinds of perks are paid for by the interest charged to card holders who run balances and accrue interest on credit card balances. But I don't ever do that, so it's all gravy for me.

 

When I was working, I'd use my US card for all my expenses (no foreign transaction fee) and when I was reimbursed, the company's approved exchange rate always netting me another 1-3%. 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Yellowtail

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not think a lack of financial activity lowers one's credit score. 

Typically, if a person has no activity on their credit card over an extended period  time, the card issuer at some point will often simply not renew the card when its next expiration date comes up.

 

If that occurs, then the person's available credit amount is reduced by the credit limit on the non-renewed card, and the number of active credit accounts is reduced, and the closed card's payment history eventually is removed from the person's credit history.

 

Those changes can hurt a person's credit rating, as follows:

 

"If you think you may have too many cards or have some you no longer use, the worst thing you can do is start closing accounts without considering the impact on your credit score. Closing older credit cards can shorten your credit history, which can hurt your score.

 

Payment history on closed accounts eventually falls off your report, which can also hurt your score. Closing credit card accounts also reduces your amount of available credit, which can hurt your credit utilization ratio if you have outstanding balances.

 

It's better to leave your credit card accounts open and just put these cards on ice. If you get a warning about inactivity from the card issuer, use that card now and then to prevent the account from being closed."

 

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/082516/why-too-many-credit-cards-can-hurt-your-credit-score.asp

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There are more factors that go into determining a person's U.S. credit score than just their history of making on-time payments (and avoiding late ones) -- though that is the largest single weighted factor among several.

 

"FICO does not reveal its proprietary credit score calculator formula, but the calculation incorporates five major components, with varying levels of importance. These categories with their relative weights are:

 

Payment history (35%)

Amount owed (30%)

Length of credit history (15%)

New credit (10%)

Credit mix (10%)

 

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/creditscorecalculation.asp

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Typically, if a person has no activity on their credit card over an extended period  time, the card issuer at some point will often simply not renew the card when its next expiration date comes up.

 

If that occurs, then the person's available credit amount is reduced by the credit limit on the non-renewed card, and the number of active credit accounts is reduced, and the closed card's payment history eventually is removed from the person's credit history.

 

Those changes can hurt a person's credit rating, as follows:

 

"If you think you may have too many cards or have some you no longer use, the worst thing you can do is start closing accounts without considering the impact on your credit score. Closing older credit cards can shorten your credit history, which can hurt your score.

And if they have no credit cards or closed them years ago? 

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Payment history on closed accounts eventually falls off your report, which can also hurt your score. Closing credit card accounts also reduces your amount of available credit, which can hurt your credit utilization ratio if you have outstanding balances.

Again, this only relates to people that have credit cards. 

 

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's better to leave your credit card accounts open and just put these cards on ice. If you get a warning about inactivity from the card issuer, use that card now and then to prevent the account from being closed."

 

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/082516/why-too-many-credit-cards-can-hurt-your-credit-score.asp

 

Yes, I think anyone with a US credit card should maintain it, but how does a US expat living in Thailand long term that has not had a US credit card for years hurt their US credit score?

 

From your link: "If a rating agency has not updated a credit rating quarterly or annually, then the last credit rating is the valid one. A credit rating does not expire. It's also important to note that rating agencies do not provide investment recommendations."

 

So, if you had a good score when you left, and have changed nothing since, you should have a good score when you return. 

 

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

SDFCU will open accounts with passport as ID and no US address. That's generally unheard of otherwise. But they're rather a quirky outfit to deal with. Swift transfers online for 35.

Thanks for that clarification. Nice quirk if you qualify!

 

Don't the credit bureau's need an address(es) in order to assess one's credit history? In the UK, if one registers on the voter's roll (confirms one's fixed abode?), it apparently works towards enhancing one's credit rating.