Trump surrenders for historic fourth arrest

[TimeMachine]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I have the impression that you are not that familiar with election systems. Maybe you have never worked in an election precinct.

 

It's almost impossible to cheat in an election by altering or printing ballots. Election fraud is usually a case where someone votes twice, but not enough to impact an election.

 

The idea that someone could dump pre-printed ballots on Election Day (or before) is crazy, since anyone doing so would have no idea if any voter in their batch had voted on Election Day, and any duplicates would be flagged by election authorities. 

 

There were 4 cases in Georgia of someone voting twice.

 

Each precinct is monitored by workers from both political parties. If the final voting rolls don't conform to what they saw on Election Day (or during early voting), the poll workers will notify authorities.

 

In short, there are significant barriers to widespread election fraud, and Trump's people never demonstrated a single precinct where there were fraudulent votes.

 

Of course, Rudy Guiliani claimed that poll workers were dumping pre-printed ballots, but later he admitted he was lying.

 

Despite that, you still believe Rudy's claims.

 

Can you point to a precinct in Georgia that had significant voter fraud? If you can't, why do you still think that the election was stolen?

 

Does Trump have that big an influence on you?

To be honest,  I'm more for the little guy.  Two mega rich guys squabbling sickens me and entertains me at the same time. 

 

You say almost impossible.  My method would be completely impossible because each person could check their own votes and others. 

As it stands, once you walk away from the booth you cannot check if your vote has been registered correctly. Dunno why people think its funny when I say it should be checkable??  Bizarre,  like people look to be cheated. 

[TimeMachine]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Again, you don't seem familar with the election process.

 

Rather than believe Trump, you could volunteer to serve as a poll worker.

Yes I am familiar.  Perhaps you can tell me where I can find my vote the next day after I vote? 

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, TimeMachine said:

To be honest,  I'm more for the little guy.  Two mega rich guys squabbling sickens me and entertains me at the same time. 

 

You say almost impossible.  My method would be completely impossible because each person could check their own votes and others. 

As it stands, once you walk away from the booth you cannot check if your vote has been registered correctly. Dunno why people think its funny when I say it should be checkable??  Bizarre,  like people look to be cheated. 

Typically, you are given a record of your vote.

 

More to the point, there is no evidence of any widespread vote fraud in Georgia.

 

Do you disagree?

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There you go then.

Yep, I'm not going anywhere.

[TimeMachine]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Typically, you are given a record of your vote.

 

More to the point, there is no evidence of any widespread vote fraud in Georgia.

 

Do you disagree?

No.  I want to see my vote.  Not a record you give me. 

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, TimeMachine said:

Yes I am familiar.  Perhaps you can tell me where I can find my vote the next day after I vote? 

Typically, you are given a record of your vote.

 

More to the point, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the Georgia election, or any other recent election.

 

You do understand that Trump and his minions were lying about voter fraud?

[ozimoron]

24 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Exactly,  you cant prove it when  there is no avenue to.  Make elections open to public discretion. Then you can prove both sides. 

If you mean public oversight then they already are. If you mean something else I don't know what you meant. If you meant "discretion" then they already are, voters get a free choice.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

No.  I want to see my vote.  Not a record you give me. 

There is a principle in elections that once you vote, the identifying details of your vote are removed from the vote. This is so nobody can later find out how you voted. You know how you voted. If you just wanted to go fishing because you believe in conspiracy theories do you realize how much it would cost to retrieve a paper ballot for everyone who wanted to antagonize the electoral commission? Do you really want big brother to know how you voted?

[candide]

4 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

To be honest,  I'm more for the little guy.  Two mega rich guys squabbling sickens me and entertains me at the same time. 

 

You say almost impossible.  My method would be completely impossible because each person could check their own votes and others. 

As it stands, once you walk away from the booth you cannot check if your vote has been registered correctly. Dunno why people think its funny when I say it should be checkable??  Bizarre,  like people look to be cheated. 

It's an interesting theoretical debate, but that's not relevant in this case.

The point is that specific claims have been for specific precincts. These specific claims have been debunked! There have been checks, recounts, audits, etc...

 

Not to mention the ridiculous character of some of the claims, such as Republican supervisors conspiring with Dominion, China and Venezuela in order to help Biden

[TimeMachine]

Just now, ozimoron said:

If you mean public oversight then they already are. If you mean something else I don't know what you meant. If you meant "discretion" then they already are, voters get a free choice.

I mean, I can't see my vote alongside all recorded votes so I can't tally up myself votes for and against. Instead people see total numbers distributed by Election committee and then on TV media.  If I have access to the database of votes I can then see my vote next to my neighbours is recorded and any other random numbers I check. If my vote is not recorded or recorded incorrectly I can visit the EC and have them correct the public viewable database. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, TimeMachine said:

I mean, I can't see my vote alongside all recorded votes so I can't tally up myself votes for and against. Instead people see total numbers distributed by Election committee and then on TV media.  If I have access to the database of votes I can then see my vote next to my neighbours is recorded and any other random numbers I check. If my vote is not recorded or recorded incorrectly I can visit the EC and have them correct the public viewable database. 

So you want the public to be able to see how everyone else voted? I'm not sure that would fly.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

I mean, I can't see my vote alongside all recorded votes so I can't tally up myself votes for and against. Instead people see total numbers distributed by Election committee and then on TV media.  If I have access to the database of votes I can then see my vote next to my neighbours is recorded and any other random numbers I check. If my vote is not recorded or recorded incorrectly I can visit the EC and have them correct the public viewable database. 

In other words, you want to eliminate anonymous voting.  Bad idea.

[TimeMachine]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

There is a principle in elections that once you vote, the identifying details of your vote are removed from the vote. This is so nobody can later find out how you voted. You know how you voted. If you just wanted to go fishing because you believe in conspiracy theories do you realize how much it would cost to retrieve a paper ballot for everyone who wanted to antagonize the electoral commission? Do you really want big brother to know how you voted?

Why not.  You have just told everyone how you voted.  

 

Regrdless,  those who do not want to have their vote entered alongside personal details can tick a checkbox so that protects them but still allows themselves to see a vote was recorded for that voter id number. All good now? 

[ozimoron]

Just now, heybruce said:

In other words, you want to eliminate anonymous voting.  Bad idea.

A classic case of painting oneself into a corner.

[TimeMachine]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

In other words, you want to eliminate anonymous voting.  Bad idea.

No not at all.  See my other post regarding the matter. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, TimeMachine said:

Why not.  You have just told everyone how you voted.  

 

Regrdless,  those who do not want to have their vote entered alongside personal details can tick a checkbox so that protects them but still allows themselves to see a vote was recorded for that voter id number. All good now? 

An vanishingly small number of people would want the gubmint recording how they voted.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Why not.  You have just told everyone how you voted.  

 

Regrdless,  those who do not want to have their vote entered alongside personal details can tick a checkbox so that protects them but still allows themselves to see a vote was recorded for that voter id number. All good now? 

If there were a move to make anonymous voting optional, the default choice should be anonymous.

 

If such an option were available, how would you prevent conspiracy theorists like Trump and yourself from claiming that all the anonymous votes were changed?

[TimeMachine]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If there were a move to make anonymous voting optional, the default choice should be anonymous.

 

If such an option were available, how would you prevent conspiracy theorists like Trump and yourself from claiming that all the anonymous votes were changed?

Because a few people who would check their own vote would come forward and say,  hey some funny business is going on here. Ok all good now? 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Because a few people who would check their own vote would come forward and say,  hey some funny business is going on here. Ok all good now? 

Apparently having members of the public certify the validity of the count isn't good enough for conspiracy theorists.

[TimeMachine]

6 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Because a few people who would check their own vote would come forward and say,  hey some funny business is going on here. Ok all good now? 

Sorry guys.  Im off for some exercise.  One last point.  You cant beat open source.  Dont fear it. And most of all thanks for being respectful and debating well. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, TimeMachine said:

Sorry guys.  Im off for some exercise.  One last point.  You cant beat open source.  Dont fear it. And most of all thanks for being respectful and debating well. 

Yeah, nah., I wouldn't want to be fired because my employer didn't like who I voted for.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Of course, just like his comment is. 

By your criterion of what is personal, any comment about what someone says is personal. Which is nonsense.

[Nick Carter icp]

7 hours ago, Slip said:

Most just want to regard him in a flaming orange jumpsuit to match his skin tone.

You need to wait until the next election before you can claim what "most" want 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

So you want the public to be able to see how everyone else voted? I'm not sure that would fly.

That would make it more difficult for anyone to rig the elections and it would also stop the accusations that the elections were rigged (in the future) and people don't exactly keep it a secret for whom they vote for 

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

To be honest,  I'm more for the little guy.  Two mega rich guys squabbling sickens me and entertains me at the same time. 

 

You say almost impossible.  My method would be completely impossible because each person could check their own votes and others. 

As it stands, once you walk away from the booth you cannot check if your vote has been registered correctly. Dunno why people think its funny when I say it should be checkable??  Bizarre,  like people look to be cheated. 

So you’re a Trump supporter, and you’re for the little guy. Hmm, how does that work exactly? Are you sure that voting for Trump is good for the little guy? What has he done for the little guy during his presidency?

Remember, Trump is a self-proclaimed billionaire who went bankrupt five (six?) times, stiffing tens of thousands of small contractors (little guys) out of millions and millions of dollars. Trump also managed to run a casino into the ground. Do you know how hard that is? And this is the guy you want running your country?

And by the way, who are “the two mega rich guys squabbling” you mentioned in your post? I see one mega rich guy, Trump, or at least he keeps claiming that he is vastly wealthy. Who’s the other mega rich guy?

[Nick Carter icp]

8 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

How can MR Trump pardon anyone?

I will give you a few clues and you can work it out for yourself.

• Presidents can pardon people
• There is an election coming soon
• Trump will likely be running in that election 

[Bkk Brian]

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I will give you a few clues and you can work it out for yourself.

• Presidents can pardon people
• There is an election coming soon
• Trump will likely be running in that election 

Presidents can issue pardons only for federal crimes, and the Georgia indictment involves exclusively state crimes. Trump couldn't even seek help from the state's governor, because in Georgia, unlike many other states, the governor cannot issue pardons.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/16/trump-georgia-pardon-00111503

Edited September 1, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

Why not.  You have just told everyone how you voted.  

 

Regrdless,  those who do not want to have their vote entered alongside personal details can tick a checkbox so that protects them but still allows themselves to see a vote was recorded for that voter id number. All good now? 

Good to know you trust the government with that information.

[scottiejohn]

31 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I will give you a few clues and you can work it out for yourself.

• Presidents can pardon people
• There is an election coming soon
• Trump will likely be running in that election 

 

I will give you a few clues and you can work it out for yourself.

MR Trump is not at present a President therefore MR Trump cannot pardon anyone!  If there is a future Mr President Trump (God forbid) then we all know that that criminal will pardon all his criminal cronies!

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

Because a few people who would check their own vote would come forward and say,  hey some funny business is going on here. Ok all good now? 

Hardly.  You are assuming that currently anonymous votes can be changed without anyone knowing, but if some people choose to make their votes public knowledge the remaining anonymous votes could not be changed without anyone knowing.  Can you see the fallacy in that assumption?