Looking for a an English speaking lawyer in Korat or KK or in between to help with property lease.

[surreybloke]

Hello everyone  . As above .     The Uk based lady is minded to buy a neighbouring house and plot next to the family home.     My idea is to lease it from her.  Do i trust her ? yes I do. 

The issue is her sister's potential son in law who is eyeing up the family home and farm (long story)  .   The house is small  but ok for a bit of updating.   

 

The local legal person does not speak english and google translate is hardly suitable.    I need a lease drawn up and then there are the contingencies  to consider.     

Edited September 2, 2023 by surreybloke
spelling

[norfolkandchance]

No recommendation. They advertise on here. Good luck.

[mahjongguy]

You can get a lease at the Land office using their standard form and its very limited conditions.

 

If you want to add ability to sublet, inability for the homeowner to sell, or any other non-default conditions, you will indeed need a lawyer to create a customized contract.

 

I have done it both ways.

 

BTW, don't forget to bring along enough cash to pay the tax on the lease.  

[Shop mak]

https://isaanlawyers.com/

 

[South]

https://www.facebook.com/p/English-Speaking-Lawyer-Khonkaen-100066636205474/

[surreybloke]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:17 AM, mahjongguy said:

You can get a lease at the Land office using their standard form and its very limited conditions.

 

If you want to add ability to sublet, inability for the homeowner to sell, or any other non-default conditions, you will indeed need a lawyer to create a customized contract.

 

I have done it both ways.

 

BTW, don't forget to bring along enough cash to pay the tax on the lease.  

ok thanks for that  .    Err the tax is new to me.   How much are we talking about  ?

 

The small plot we think is selling for around 200k THB

[mahjongguy]

A lease registration fee (for registered leases exceeding 3 years) shall be collected at the rate of 1% of the total rental throughout the lease term and stamp duty shall be collected at the rate of 0.1%, also over the total rental throughout the lease term.

 

So, as an example, state a monthly rent of 10,000 baht. State a term of 20 years.

20 years x 12 months x 10,000 baht x 1.1% results in a cash fee of 26,400 total for the lease registration and stamp fee.

 

Your name will be entered on the next blank line of the chanote. This makes you the "housemaster" and will serve as a proof of address and only you determine who can live there and who cannot.

 

BTW, there is no legal need to actually pay the rent. If you do then the recipient would have to pay income tax on it. Better to let the unpaid rent pile up as a defense against a relative of the owner who (upon the owner's demise) might try to falsely claim possession of the property.

 

NB: a lease is great but it is a one-way street. If you paid for the property you cannot get your money back. Only at the end of the term (of the lease or of your existence) does the lease terminate. If the relationship fails then the only solution is to negotiate a price for which you agree to relinquish your lien on the chanote. Or just walk away.  

 

 

[surreybloke]

Wow  thanks for that.   I was not thinking of paying anymore rent than a token amount.   The idea is to stop the ladies niece and useless boy friend from taking over the family house.   

So family  has a a big house and we are buying a neighbouring house and clearing it to build a modest sized  single storey  property that is essentially mine.  We have been an item for many years.      

[connda]

Korat Lawyers.

[surreybloke]

thank you all

 

[JeffersLos]

3 hours ago, surreybloke said:

 The idea is to stop the ladies niece and useless boy friend from taking over the family house.   

So family  has a a big house and we are buying a neighbouring house and clearing it to build a modest sized  single storey  property that is essentially mine. 

A usufruct signed by the owner of the land at the land office, gives you full control of the land until you die. Your name will be printed on the chanote title deeds as a usufruct. It cannot be sold, leased or transferred without your written consent at the land office. The usufruct on the land is only terminated by your written consent or your death. It will likely cost less than 500 baht.

[surreybloke]

Thank you  all.    So that is straight foreword.          Lease or a usufruct or a superficies. 

 

   Superficies Thailand - Agreement and Contract - Isaan Lawyers

 

Phew plenty to think about.      Where did I leave the  head ache pills. 

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 9/9/2023 at 9:48 PM, connda said:

Korat Lawyers.

This is a disguise of Isaan Lawyers.

 

Sebastien is now at ThaiLawOnline. The new manager at Isaan Lawyers hardly 10% or the texts on their website. He just arrived in 2022 to Thai law.

 

Hope you are well Dan.

 

Seb.

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:18 AM, Shop mak said:

https://isaanlawyers.com/

 

You seem fascinated by them. I build the company for 16 years. Which lawyer do you find great working there now? I do not see many lawyers with tons of experience in Thailand, sincerely. 
 

i am Sebastien. Now, at ThaiLawOnline. 

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:03 AM, norfolkandchance said:

No recommendation. They advertise on here. Good luck.

I doubt Brian Ramsden has a background as a lawyer. And could you tell me what does he have done for expats? 

Would you hire a building company whose manager has a background in accounting? I would not.

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 9/6/2023 at 6:39 AM, mahjongguy said:

A lease registration fee (for registered leases exceeding 3 years) shall be collected at the rate of 1% of the total rental throughout the lease term and stamp duty shall be collected at the rate of 0.1%, also over the total rental throughout the lease term.

 

So, as an example, state a monthly rent of 10,000 baht. State a term of 20 years.

20 years x 12 months x 10,000 baht x 1.1% results in a cash fee of 26,400 total for the lease registration and stamp fee.

 

Your name will be entered on the next blank line of the chanote. This makes you the "housemaster" and will serve as a proof of address and only you determine who can live there and who cannot.

 

BTW, there is no legal need to actually pay the rent. If you do then the recipient would have to pay income tax on it. Better to let the unpaid rent pile up as a defense against a relative of the owner who (upon the owner's demise) might try to falsely claim possession of the property.

 

NB: a lease is great but it is a one-way street. If you paid for the property you cannot get your money back. Only at the end of the term (of the lease or of your existence) does the lease terminate. If the relationship fails then the only solution is to negotiate a price for which you agree to relinquish your lien on the chanote. Or just walk away.  

 

 

A) 1.1% good.

 

B) This does not make you « house master » is makes you lessee. that’s the legal term and «  house master » could confuse with the « house holder » into a ta bian baan blue which has nothing to do with ownership.
 

C) of course there is a legal obligation to pay the rent. You are totally wrong about that. But good lawyers will make an additional receipt that the rent has been paid in advance, for 30 years or 60 years, depending on cases. There is no défense of unpaid bill if paid in advance. This is bad advice as I saw cases of lease cancelled because the rent was not paid.

 

D) You last paragraph shows that you had bad contracts or do not understand. A renewal is allowed by law.

 

540 allows a renewal and you put it in an addendum with good clauses.

168 is a declaration of intention, you make this sign by the owner so if the owner dies during 30 years, it binds their heirs by a retroactive effect.

a clause should be added about any restrictions to the lease, damages, or whatever happens if the lessor does not respect the lease, the lessee can claim back any damage + legal fees + interests + lawyer’s fees. That is pretty good to dissuade the lessor to make problems…. ????

 

In pure civil law, a usufruct is stronger than a lease because it is a real right. Under Thai law, the registration of the lease, according to Thai lawyers, if nicely drafted, makes it as strong as a real right. I disagree but understand the principles. You can object oppose your rights to third parties and you are safe for 30 years sure. And I would say 60. But I only live here for 19 so I never seen a second renewal or a refusal of a renewal contested in court. I know about the Phuket case but it is very different.

 

Everything above, I knew that in 2007 and I modified and improved my agreements since then. Big law firms will charge 40,000 baht for that? We do it for 10,000 with 4 documents, bilingual, instructions and consultation included. We include superficies clauses in the lease and in our addendum to a usufruct. I Will change the website this week about Usufruct contract, I think it is better to call it addendum to usufruct and a clause to supersedes the land department agreement.

 

 

[norfolkandchance]

5 hours ago, ThaiLawOnline said:

I doubt Brian Ramsden has a background as a lawyer. And could you tell me what does he have done for expats? 

Would you hire a building company whose manager has a background in accounting? I would not.

What's your problem ? Don't  shoot the messenger. I posted an 'No recommendation' to the OP.

[surreybloke]

Thank you to all.    Can I just say the local land office were friendly/relaxed/helpful.