ปลายเปิด. . . ปิดกั้น

[DavidHouston]

Sentences from the newspaper:

'แม้ที่ผ่านมา พล.อ.สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน ผบ.ทบ. และประธาน คมช. จะยังไม่พูดชัดเจนว่าจะเล่นการเมืองหลังเกษียณอายุราชการหรือไม่...?'

. . . . .

'พล.อ.สนธิตอบคำถามในลักษณะ "ปลายเปิด" ที่ไม่ได้ "ปิดกั้น" โอกาสของตัวเองในการที่จะลงเล่นการเมือง'

In particular, I want to ask about "ปลายเปิด" and "ปิดกั้น"

1. I see that the phrase ปลายเปิด is used in connection with pipes, the literal meaning, and as perhaps an adaptation from the English "คำถามปลายเปิด" ("an open ended question). In the newspaper example, is Sonthi indicating that he has not made a decision but is 'wide-open" for consideration?

2. ปิดกั้น means to obstruct; hinder; check; block; stop; impede. Does he imply that he will not preclude any offers of political participation?

[mangkorn]

Sentences from the newspaper:

'แม้ที่ผ่านมา พล.อ.สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน ผบ.ทบ. และประธาน คมช. จะยังไม่พูดชัดเจนว่าจะเล่นการเมืองหลังเกษียณอายุราชการหรือไม่...?'

. . . . .

'พล.อ.สนธิตอบคำถามในลักษณะ "ปลายเปิด" ที่ไม่ได้ "ปิดกั้น" โอกาสของตัวเองในการที่จะลงเล่นการเมือง'

In particular, I want to ask about "ปลายเปิด" and "ปิดกั้น"

1. I see that the phrase ปลายเปิด is used in connection with pipes, the literal meaning, and as perhaps an adaptation from the English "คำถามปลายเปิด" ("an open ended question). In the newspaper example, is Sonthi indicating that he has not made a decision but is 'wide-open" for consideration?

2. ปิดกั้น means to obstruct; hinder; check; block; stop; impede. Does he imply that he will not preclude any offers of political participation?

I'd say you're correct, David: this looks like a construction that is influenced by standard Western journalistic style. As a journo myself, I'll give it a try in the fashion that we would write it (and it does seem to follow very closely):

"Responding to questions about his plans after retirement from the armed forces, Gen. Sonthi said he was leaving all his options open and that he had not ruled out a possible future in politics."

[DavidHouston]

If you would allow one follow-up in a later part of this article:

"เหตุผลที่ พล.อ.สนธิ ต้องการขี่หลังเสือท่องยุทธจักร อาจจะมาจากเหตุปัจจัยหลายประการ อาทิ รู้สึกห่วงใยยิ่ง ต่อสวัสดิภาพตัวเอง

"There are several reason that General Sonthi needs to continue to ride the back of the tiger ________ . For example, he is very concerned about his personal welfare."

I cannot find the phrase "ท่องยุทธจักร". "ยุทธจักร" itself, from Domnern Sathienpong, is "warfare feud; circle, fraternity." Alternatively, is "ขี่หลังเสือท่องยุทธจักร" a separate idiom?

Thanks.

[aanon]

If you would allow one follow-up in a later part of this article:

"เหตุผลที่ พล.อ.สนธิ ต้องการขี่หลังเสือท่องยุทธจักร อาจจะมาจากเหตุปัจจัยหลายประการ อาทิ รู้สึกห่วงใยยิ่ง ต่อสวัสดิภาพตัวเอง

"There are several reason that General Sonthi needs to continue to ride the back of the tiger ________ . For example, he is very concerned about his personal welfare."

I cannot find the phrase "ท่องยุทธจักร". "ยุทธจักร" itself, from Domnern Sathienpong, is "warfare feud; circle, fraternity." Alternatively, is "ขี่หลังเสือท่องยุทธจักร" a separate idiom?

Thanks.

hey david,

from my understanding, ขี่หลังเสือ means to 'ride out' a difficult situation. the idea being that it isn't going ot be easy, but if you fall off it could be even worse. i'm not sure whether the whole ขี่หลังเสือท่องยุทธจักร is a fixed idiom. it could be that the writer is mixing metaphors.

ท่อง = travel around

ยุทธจักร = world (of boxing), fraternity (of poets), realm (of politics?), circle...

if you've been closely following the particular news story (i haven't), perhaps this is enough to make an adequate translation.

all the best.

ps. for a closer translation of the original passage, you might use something like: "sondhi responded in an open-ended (non-committal) manner, in no way ruling out the possibility of his entering politics (in the future)".

Edited July 15, 2007 by aanon

[DavidHouston]

Since tigers are found natively in Thailand, there is probably no need to quote one of the greatest limericks ever written:

There was a young lady of Niger

Who smiled as she rode on a tiger;

They returned from the ride

With the lady inside,

And the smile on the face of the tiger.

This, however, may be an apt metaphor for what might happen if Sonthi joins a political party thinking that he would be firmly in the leadership position. This is a language board, not a political board, so we discuss only the language issues.

[mangkorn]

ps. for a closer translation of the original passage, you might use something like: "sondhi responded in an open-ended (non-committal) manner, in no way ruling out the possibility of his entering politics (in the future)".

Khun Aanon: yours would be a closer translation - in the literal sense - but it's not really how anyone would actually write it in English (except, perhaps, some bureaucrat).

Cheers.

[mangkorn]

from my understanding, ??????????? means to 'ride out' a difficult situation. the idea being that it isn't going ot be easy, but if you fall off it could be even worse. i'm not sure whether the whole ??????????????????????? is a fixed idiom. it could be that the writer is mixing metaphors.

I recall that Khun Yoot noted in another thread that the phrase "ride the tiger" actually derives from an original Chinese idiom - which means what Aanon says it does. Easy to see how it got into Thai then (and surely before the English copped it).

[aanon]

ps. for a closer translation of the original passage, you might use something like: "sondhi responded in an open-ended (non-committal) manner, in no way ruling out the possibility of his entering politics (in the future)".

Khun Aanon: yours would be a closer translation - in the literal sense - but it's not really how anyone would actually write it in English (except, perhaps, some bureaucrat).

Cheers.

the literal sense is what i was referring to. a translation can be of course be too close if it is literal to the point that it seems awkward or unnatural in the target language. in this case, however, i don't see a problem with the following sentence:

"...sondhi responded in a non-committal manner, in no way ruling out the possibility of his entering politics in the future"

of course, there are a wide range of styles and tastes in actual written english, even amongst journalists.

all the best.