Canadian Woman Arrested For Killing Two Thai Girls, Father In Road Accident

[bruceboy]

If he was indeed drunk he should pay a very heavy price, both in jail time and financially. I'll wait for the whole story to come out before passing judgement though.

Good post. If he is found guilty he should be jailed for life. Let's just hope he doesn't write another "poor little me" Prison diary....

[chinthee]

All of you recommending life sentence, throw away the key, etc., for a probable unintentional, though aggravated by alcohol manslaughter do realize I hope that you are lobbying for a penalty many times more serious than the country you likely come from don't you?

I wonder where that logic enters? You are suggesting a heavier penalty for committing the same crime that would earn a lesser sentence in the west. Go figure...

[MrSquigle]

If he writes an escape from phuket prison book, will he be admired or condemned ?

[geriatrickid]

All of you recommending life sentence, throw away the key, etc., for a probable unintentional, though aggravated by alcohol manslaughter do realize I hope that you are lobbying for a penalty many times more serious than the country you likely come from don't you?

I wonder where that logic enters? You are suggesting a heavier penalty for committing the same crime that would earn a lesser sentence in the west. Go figure...

canada has some of the toughest dui laws in the west. dui is a misdemeanor in the USA but a felony in Canada. although canada does have its share of multiply convicted drunk drivers that run down people. Anyways, it's a lot easier to scream out dui before evidence is gathered so that events can be manipulated to someone's benefit. I'd prefer to see the blood alcohol level and hear of the actual events before listening to the usual innuendo and rumours so common when it comes to foreigner events. everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

[cdnvic]

All of you recommending life sentence, throw away the key, etc., for a probable unintentional, though aggravated by alcohol manslaughter do realize I hope that you are lobbying for a penalty many times more serious than the country you likely come from don't you?

Not really.

In Canada he would face one of two scenarios:

Impaired driving causing death - Maximum: 14 years imprisonment.

Criminal negligence causing death (if he we legally barred from driving, unlicenced, etc) - Maximum: Life imprisonment.

Edited July 17, 2007 by cdnvic

[jackspratt]

everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Not on this forum, they're not (in many cases).

Hang 'em first, ask questions later!

[seonai]

Jackspratt that is not a helpful attitude. The person who killed these people did it by accident and must be feeling absolutely awful. My condolences to the family of the deseased.

[jackspratt]

Jackspratt that is not a helpful attitude. The person who killed these people did it by accident and must be feeling absolutely awful. My condolences to the family of the deseased.

Sorry Seonai - I was trying to be ironic

There is quite a pervasive mind set amongst many on the forum, along the lines I was highlighting in my post.

It ain't healthy.

[bannork]

I read in The Daily News yesterday that it was a Canadian woman who was driving.

Do you have a link to this news report, Bannork?

I'm not sure if The Daily News prints all its stories online but if you buy a copy of today's Daily News but published yesterday, Thais are always clairvoyant about the future, the story is near the back of the main section, one or two pages from the back page. It's quite a short piece.

My husband didn't see it in either yesterday's online paper or today.

It's in The Daily News 17-07-07, but as I say published yesterday, on page 18 in the brief news section. It says a Canadian woman driver who appeared drunk was taken by police to a police station in Phuket after an accident involving a motorbike and the deaths of the passengers to avoid the wrath of gathering onlookers who may have lynched the woman( if given the chance).

[qualtrough]

Having said that, IF this guy was drunk then, agreed, the book needs to be thrown but, if it was truly an accident, then it needs to be treated as such. Is it also part of the "culture" that the farang is responsible no matter what?

Please stop spreading this disinformation about farangs being responsible in road accidents no matter what. This topic has appeared on the forum several times, and each time there have been numerous members providing reports of this not being true in cases where they were involved in accidents.

[qualtrough]

I found this a few moments ago on the Phuket Gazette Web site. Note that there is no report that the woman was drunk:

Tuesday, July 17, 2007

Three die in Rawai smash

RAWAI: An accident on Wiset Rd left a father, his daughter and his niece dead, and his wife seriously injured after the motorbike they were riding and a car collided on Sunday evening.

Chalong Police were alerted to the accident in front of Baan Haad Rawai Bungalow about 8 pm.

Pol Lt Col Peeraphan Meemak, inspector of Chalong Police Station, told the Gazette that he arrived at the scene to find the body of 29-year-old construction worker Payont Waraputh next to a smashed Honda Wave motorcycle and a gold Honda Jazz with damage to the right of the front bumper.

K. Payont was returning from Rawai Beach when the collision occurred, said Col Peeraphan, adding that witnesses to the crash were yet to be interviewed.

K. Payont’s daughter Walaiporn, 8, and his niece Supitchaya Chaikiri, 6, had been taken to Vachira Phuket Hospital by rescue workers before Col Peeraphan arrived at the scene.

They died of their injuries on the way to hospital, the police officer said.

The driver of the Honda Jazz, Canadian Leslie Hand, 44, was returning from Chalong Circle to her home in Bang Khon Thee, Rawai, said Col Peeraphan.

Police found Ms Hand, who was not injured, waiting at the side of the road.

K. Payont’s wife, Wipaporn Buayoo, 25, remains in critical condition at Vachira Phuket Hospital. Police were unable to provide details of her injuries.

The bodies of the deceased were taken to Wat Lathiwanaram for funeral ceremonies.

Ms Hand was charged with negligence causing death, and released on bail yesterday.

Chalong Police are continuing their investigation.

[Steely Dan]

I found this a few moments ago on the Phuket Gazette Web site. Note that there is no report that the woman was drunk:

Tuesday, July 17, 2007

Three die in Rawai smash

RAWAI: An accident on Wiset Rd left a father, his daughter and his niece dead, and his wife seriously injured after the motorbike they were riding and a car collided on Sunday evening.

Chalong Police were alerted to the accident in front of Baan Haad Rawai Bungalow about 8 pm.

Pol Lt Col Peeraphan Meemak, inspector of Chalong Police Station, told the Gazette that he arrived at the scene to find the body of 29-year-old construction worker Payont Waraputh next to a smashed Honda Wave motorcycle and a gold Honda Jazz with damage to the right of the front bumper.

K. Payont was returning from Rawai Beach when the collision occurred, said Col Peeraphan, adding that witnesses to the crash were yet to be interviewed.

K. Payont’s daughter Walaiporn, 8, and his niece Supitchaya Chaikiri, 6, had been taken to Vachira Phuket Hospital by rescue workers before Col Peeraphan arrived at the scene.

They died of their injuries on the way to hospital, the police officer said.

The driver of the Honda Jazz, Canadian Leslie Hand, 44, was returning from Chalong Circle to her home in Bang Khon Thee, Rawai, said Col Peeraphan.

Police found Ms Hand, who was not injured, waiting at the side of the road.

K. Payont’s wife, Wipaporn Buayoo, 25, remains in critical condition at Vachira Phuket Hospital. Police were unable to provide details of her injuries.

The bodies of the deceased were taken to Wat Lathiwanaram for funeral ceremonies.

Ms Hand was charged with negligence causing death, and released on bail yesterday.

Chalong Police are continuing their investigation.

Ah, so he was a She and alcohol was not mentioned. What did I write previously about Kafkaesque misfortune being but an eyewitness report away? By the way I am deeply saddened by this whole case but it is willfully obtuse to disregard the possibility of the deceased contributing to this tragedy to some degree.

[khall64au]

What is wrong with you people? Haven’t you seen enough kangaroo court justice in your lives? Hang em! Throw away the key! I imagine if any of you were friends with the Canadian you would be a little less eager for blood and willing at least to wait for an official report on the alcohol.

Every drive I make in this country is a continual parade of dangerous and careless driving. I think it’s the grace of God that half the population isn’t wiped out annually. I must have saved the lives of hundreds by now by simply keeping my eyes open and my brake foot ready. And when I am on my motorcycle, I become the prey and driving back to my house seems more like self defense than commuting.

I feel very bad for the lady who lost her family, but lynch mobs are the lowest form of reactionary animal instinct. Maybe someday you will get a jury treating you as fairly.

[khall64au]

I know the lady involved in this accident - she is a resident of Phuket, a neighbour and a professional who works hard promoting Thailand to the world.

I dared not comment on this thread before local Phuket media released comment as the first (Bangkok) 'news report' was slightly innacurate.

Reading the previous posts made me so sad that some people are quick to pass judgement before any real facts are known.

This is a true tragedy as so many lives are ruined. No doubt Ms Leslie Hand is in grieving along with the family of the deceased.

ps. The roads of Phuket are dangerous - do be careful!

[kmart]

A tragedy in every sense of the word.

Additionally, I am appalled at the notion by some on this forum that the victims were somehow at fault by riding 4-up on a motorbike. To even mention that they were somehow at fault is a reckless statement. Don't forget that we are visitors in the country and this culture cannot be compared to any other as to what is normal or abnormal. Though I agree that riding 4-up on a motorbike is not a prudent way to be safe, it nonetheless is the way of life here in Thailand. If the family could have afforded the Honda that killed them, then I'm sure they would have purchased it. I work with children here in Thailand and I cringe every time I hear of a senseless tragedy like this. And the breadwinner, perhaps, is gone, too. I hope the mother regains her life. She is now the real victim.

As for the man that 'caused' this accident, I share no empathy, unless it is proven it was a complete accident. Whether he was drunk or not, if he is at fault, he should spend the rest of his life in a Thai prison. You must be accountable for your actions regardless of circumstances. If he is found to have been drunk, then I pity him in prison. He will soberly aware of his actions for years to come.

A sad story, indeed.

Are you real? Have you ever driven a car / vehicle here in Thailand?

Twit of the first order.

[canuckamuck]

Lessons learned here I hope, as the hangman’s noose is put back on the shelf.

[jackr]

That Rawai road is a right death trap. Even though it's been widened somewhat there is still no central reservation, as with most Phuket roads, and people tend to wander out past the middle going in both directions.

RIP

[kat]

It is an extremely sad situation, and I feel bad for everyone involved. I was terrified on the roads in Phuket. There was no beach beautiful enough to cajole me to drive on those roads every day.

[khall64au]

That Rawai road is a right death trap. Even though it's been widened somewhat there is still no central reservation, as with most Phuket roads, and people tend to wander out past the middle going in both directions.

RIP

A mere understatement - that road was turned into a 4-lane highway interjecting a seaside village - a freeway to NOWHERE! There are no roadside lights, the villagers have no idea how to traverse the new ridiculous freeway that nobody needed or wanted. Chalong Circle to Rawai. Why?

Google it people!!! See for yourselves....

[PeaceBlondie]

This is not only a tragedy for all those who were directly involved, but it appears this topic is also a tragedy. 79 posts, and very few facts. A female drove the car, not a male. And the alcohol connection is yet to be proven.

Topic title corrected.

[JimmyTheMook]

Don't forget that we are visitors in the country and this culture cannot be compared to any other as to what is normal or abnormal.

Many on this forum are not just visitors here, so I find that comment very lame.

Edited July 18, 2007 by JimmyTheMook

[geriatrickid]

Not really.

In Canada he would face one of two scenarios:

Impaired driving causing death - Maximum: 14 years imprisonment.

Criminal negligence causing death (if he we legally barred from driving, unlicenced, etc) - Maximum: Life imprisonment.

The maximums are rarely if ever given in canada. The average jail sentence for Dui with bodily injury has been 2 years less a day, but due to overcrowding, good behaviour, and conditional sentencing the guilty party spends little time in jail

In some ways, not that much different than Thailand. I offer the following items to demonstrate that the assumption made by some that there is "no justice" in Thailand or that if a thai was a drunk driver, he/she would get away with it unlike "elsewhere" .

fact: usual penalty for a 1st DUI offence in Canada is a fine.

fact: Although minimum 2nd DUI offence penalty is 14 days in jail, overcrowding usually means no jailtime or at worst a weekend in jail.

fact: Although minimum 3rd DUI penalty is 90 days in jail, overcrowding usually means a significantly reduced sentence involving weekends in jail or house arrest.

In 2005, there was a turning point in Ontario, Canada. Charly Hart made history when he was sentenced to a six-year jail term. It was the longest term given. He had a 35-year record of impaired driving that included 39 convictions for drunk driving and related offences. In 1971, he was convicted of dangerous driving following a fatal accident in Sarnia involving alcohol that killed one person.

Imagine if the above was Thailand and what the comments would be.

So please, the next time one wishes to comment on how Thais let people walk away with a slap on the wrist, please remember that it's not really different than many western countries.

[thohts]

Guilty until proven innocent?

Just because a newspaper reports that he 'appeared drunk' does not make it so.

How about a sobriety test at the time of arrest, or does 'appearing drunk' suffice?

[Mid]

This post has been edited by PeaceBlondie: Today, 2007-07-18 10:11:31

Reason for edit: Titles corrected based on later news article

for the late commers .

[Ned]

The parents, one of whom is now no more, surely have to take some responsibility. Four people on a motorbike! Happens everyday here and is no big deal. The way a lot of motorcyclists ride they have it coming. Until riding behaviour and skills change then the daily carnage will continue. The locals don't seem too interested. In many cases it's seen as a bonus if someone is killed or maimed when compensation flows in their direction. Brutal but true.

I've been warned to avoid a certain area here in my car where it's not unknown for people looking for cash to throw themselves in front of cars. It's carnage out there.

[DamianMavis]

Reading some of the comments here it is obvious they dont drive here and are completely naive. I am not blaming the family, but I drive safely and defensively and I am constantly avoiding accidents, some of them near fatal. I have extremely quick reflexes and have just managed to avoid killing people and myself.... if I was a split second slower than something horrible would have happened. Keep in mind I have never had a drink or drug in my life. So if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone.

Damian Mavis

[TopDogger]

Ms Hand was charged with negligence causing death, and released on bail yesterday.

Drunk or not, this implys that it was her @ fault?

[quiksilva]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what the drink driving limits are here. From what I understand of the subject (admittedly from Thai Visa) is that you can be over the limit in Thailand with a single drink.

Whether booze was involved or not, its a terrible tragedy.

[devaram]

Who says hes guilty?

Nothing has been proven yet.

Even if he was drunk the bar that sold him the alchohol has to share the blame.

Sounds like 4 people were riding on a motorbike half of whom could also have been drinking and/ or talking on cell phones I see this all the time in chiangmai.

The motorbike could have ignored a stopsign.Have you ever seen thais stop at a stop sign? The never stop they just merge and hope everyone else does the same.

There are no clear traffic laws and even if there were nobody is enforcing them.

Tourists are lured here by the thailand tourist industry to consume alchohol and pick up women.

If he was drinking and driving he is to blame but the blame doesnt stop there its a bigger problem than one drunk farang.

Personally I wouldnt even drive in thailand.I only use a bicycle and rarely a motorbike and even then ive had difficult encounters with drivers. The liability here is clearly against the farang. Even if you are in the right you may have to shoulder the responsibility for anything that happens and come up with cash. If you kill someone, God help you....

[PeaceBlondie]

Ms Hand was charged with negligence causing death, and released on bail yesterday.

Drunk or not, this implys that it was her @ fault?

If the news report is even true (often they're not), she was only charged, and released on bail, which in common English means she hasn't had a trial or conviction. Also, negligence is a far less serious charge than vehicular manslaughter, or whatever they call it. Also, if the report is true, alcohol is not mentioned.