Analysis The Gaza diplomacy of Biden, Sunak and co seems to be heading for failure

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Pure historical revisionism and negationism...

Good afternoon liar, still waiting for you to support your claim that Israel has killed a million innocent Palestinians since the 7th. 

 

Either support it, or admit you are a liar. 

[Thorgal]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Good afternoon liar, still waiting for you to support your claim that Israel has killed a million innocent Palestinians since the 7th. 

 

Either support it, or admit you are a liar. 

 

Here also :

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1309894-the-gaza-diplomacy-of-biden-sunak-and-co-seems-to-be-heading-for-failure/?do=findComment&comment=18441730

 

Can you explain which international law is applicable that allows Israel to bomb Palestinian civilians that have nothing to do with Hamas franchise ?

 

Your fallacy of false interpretation doesn't work any more...you know that there were never 1 million causalities and that I've never assumed it. Please answer the question instead of deflecting like a teenager.

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

 

 

Can you explain which international law is applicable that allows Israel to bomb Palestinian civilians that have nothing to do with Hamas franchise ?

 

 

 

 

 

   Laws do not allow you to do things , laws forbid you from doing things 

You are asking for non existent things 

   Why don't you provide the laws which makes Israel's actions to be against  international law ?

[JBChiangRai]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

That's a Christian concept, and can't say Christians took much heed of it anyway.

 

Hamas went into this knowing the consequences. Hamas leadership calls on citizens to remain in harm's way, and says casualties are necessary sacrifices. Hamas embeds itself within civilian population.

 

And you keep banging on about some elusive magic solution....without actually saying much.

 

 

 

I don’t bang on about anything, and I never mentioned any magical solution, I simply said what Israel is doing is wrong. I don’t have to offer a solution, that’s not my job, it is up to Israel to devise a solution that isn’t (a) driven by revenge and (b) doesn’t massacre thousands of innocent people.

 

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I disagree, your head is firmly in the sand, in your initial post you certainly did NOT condemn Hamas but you did talk about the possible war crimes by Israel. Now wind back and see exactly why Israel is responding like this. Its not because of the rockets as you claimed. Its because over 1,400 innocent lives of civilians were slaughtered by ISIS style Terrorists. Many tortured, raped and even beheaded. A direct targeting of defenseless civilians and the abduction of over 200 more still in captivity. Those are the war crimes that started this. 

 

Israel is ensuring this never happens again.

In my initial post, The fact I didn’t comment on Hamas cannot be taken as any kind of tacit approval, nor can it lead to the conclusion that my head is in the sand.  I did condemn Hamas when asked my position.

 

What number of Israeli’s massacred or taken prisoner by Hamas justifies them to slaughter thousands of innocent people? 1, 10, 100, 1000, a million?

 

When do reprisals represent justice or revenge? In that context the comments you made about what Hamas did are irrelevant.

 

I would say there is no number that justifies a response that massacres thousands of innocent people. What Hamas has done should have no bearing on innocent people.

 

Israel’s beef is with Hamas, not citizens of Gaza.

 

What is the purpose in asking half the population of Gaza to move into the South, isn’t it likely Hamas will move with them?

 

I am aware most people don’t think so, but I expect Israel to annex Northern Gaza.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

In my initial post, The fact I didn’t comment on Hamas cannot be taken as any kind of tacit approval, nor can it lead to the conclusion that my head is in the sand.  I did condemn Hamas when asked my position.

 

What number of Israeli’s massacred or taken prisoner by Hamas justifies them to slaughter thousands of innocent people? 1, 10, 100, 1000, a million?

 

When do reprisals represent justice or revenge? In that context the comments you made about what Hamas did are irrelevant.

 

I would say there is no number that justifies a response that massacres thousands of innocent people. What Hamas has done should have no bearing on innocent people.

 

Israel’s beef is with Hamas, not citizens of Gaza.

 

What is the purpose in asking half the population of Gaza to move into the South, isn’t it likely Hamas will move with them?

 

I am aware most people don’t think so, but I expect Israel to annex Northern Gaza.

 

"In my initial post, The fact I didn’t comment on Hamas cannot be taken as any kind of tacit approval"

 

Perhaps not but does lead to my original remark stating your, "head is in the sand" as it remains so where you stated my latest comments "are irrelevant"

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don’t bang on about anything, and I never mentioned any magical solution, I simply said what Israel is doing is wrong. I don’t have to offer a solution, that’s not my job, it is up to Israel to devise a solution that isn’t (a) driven by revenge and (b) doesn’t massacre thousands of innocent people.

 

In my initial post, The fact I didn’t comment on Hamas cannot be taken as any kind of tacit approval, nor can it lead to the conclusion that my head is in the sand.  I did condemn Hamas when asked my position.

 

What number of Israeli’s massacred or taken prisoner by Hamas justifies them to slaughter thousands of innocent people? 1, 10, 100, 1000, a million?

 

When do reprisals represent justice or revenge? In that context the comments you made about what Hamas did are irrelevant.

 

I would say there is no number that justifies a response that massacres thousands of innocent people. What Hamas has done should have no bearing on innocent people.

 

Israel’s beef is with Hamas, not citizens of Gaza.

 

What is the purpose in asking half the population of Gaza to move into the South, isn’t it likely Hamas will move with them?

 

I am aware most people don’t think so, but I expect Israel to annex Northern Gaza.

 

 

You are going on and on about what Israel should not do. When asked how to address the situation, you just reply with the same. There are no wars in which civilians are not effected. For all intents and purposes, you wish for a magic solution. There is none.

[newbee2022]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

It was not really that peaceful. And it was controlled by the Ottoman Empire.

 

Now, this here is a topic discussing current events.

You and a bunch of other posters seem to mistake it for a history class.

How about addressing something that's more directly related to the OP? It's not like you're doing yourself any favors with what you posted so far, anyway.

 

If you followed my posts, you will become a wise man....and would not open your mouth 👍🐪

[JBChiangRai]

52 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are going on and on about what Israel should not do. When asked how to address the situation, you just reply with the same. There are no wars in which civilians are not effected. For all intents and purposes, you wish for a magic solution. There is none.

I never said there was a magic solution and I won’t be drawn into the task of offering one.

 

What I said was that massacring thousands of innocent civilians, as Israel is doing is wrong.  They have to find a better solution.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Perhaps not but does lead to my original remark stating your, "head is in the sand" as it remains so where you stated my latest comments "are irrelevant"

It doesn’t make any difference what Hamas has done, it’s irrelevant, what is important is that Israel doesn’t massacre, thousands of innocent civilians.

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

It doesn’t make any difference what Hamas has done, it’s irrelevant, what is important is that Israel doesn’t massacre, thousands of innocent civilians.

It makes all the difference what they've done, this war would not have happened had it not been for the massacres carried out by Hamas, it was nothing to do with the rockets, that's why they need to be eliminated so they can not carry this out again, what's the matter with you....jeez

Edited October 23, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I never said there was a magic solution and I won’t be drawn into the task of offering one.

 

What I said was that massacring thousands of innocent civilians, as Israel is doing is wrong.  They have to find a better solution.

 

A better solution which you cannot comment on. Not even point in the general direction of.

[JBChiangRai]

51 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

It makes all the difference what they've done, this war would not have happened had it not been for the massacres carried out by Hamas, it was nothing to do with the rockets, that's why they need to be eliminated so they can not carry this out again, what's the matter with you....jeez

You are entirely missing the point.  What Hamas has done justifies Israel attacking Hamas. Nothing they have done or could do justifies attacking innocent civilians and killing them in their thousands in the hope of wiping out Hamas.

 

Let me give an analogy.  The IRA attack the British, The British then go in and massacre thousands of innocent civilians in the hope of eradicating the IRA, this would be equally wrong. Nothing the IRA could do would justify that kind of a massacre.

 

In the law we judge guilty or not guilt on actions only.  Provocation may affect sentencing but it does not make an illegal act into a legal one.

 

Gazan civilians are innocent, nothing Hamas has done justifies massacring them in their thousands.

[JBChiangRai]

54 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

A better solution which you cannot comment on. Not even point in the general direction of.

Actually I do have a solution, I don’t volunteer it because it deflects from the wrong being done by Israel which is what we are discussing, open another thread on alternative solutions and I will be happy to comment.

 

Any solution should leave the Palestinian children without hatred for Israel.  This generational hate has to end, and not by genocide.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

You are entirely missing the point.  What Hamas has done justifies Israel attacking Hamas. Nothing they have done or could do justifies attacking innocent civilians and killing them in their thousands in the hope of wiping out Hamas.

 

Let me give an analogy.  The IRA attack the British, The British then go in and massacre thousands of innocent civilians in the hope of eradicating the IRA, this would be equally wrong. Nothing the IRA could do would justify that kind of a massacre.

 

In the law we judge guilty or not guilt on actions only.  Provocation may affect sentencing but it does not make an illegal act into a legal one.

 

Gazan civilians are innocent, nothing Hamas has done justifies massacring them in their thousands.

 

No I'm missing no point, you are. Hamas took over 200 hostages, there's a simple way they could end this without the need for so much destruction. Really easy, release them. Then once they are released those who committed the massacres need to surrender to Israel. The war stops and negotiations start on dismantling the rocket launchers etc

 

Please let me know if you have any better solutions?

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Actually I do have a solution, I don’t volunteer it because it deflects from the wrong being done by Israel which is what we are discussing, open another thread on alternative solutions and I will be happy to comment.

 

Any solution should leave the Palestinian children without hatred for Israel.  This generational hate has to end, and not by genocide.

No doubt a one state solution. 

[JBChiangRai]

17 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

No I'm missing no point, you are. Hamas took over 200 hostages, there's a simple way they could end this without the need for so much destruction. Really easy, release them. Then once they are released those who committed the massacres need to surrender to Israel. The war stops and negotiations start on dismantling the rocket launchers etc

 

Please let me know if you have any better solutions?

You keep mentioning Hamas and what they have done.

 

Exactly, how does that make the citizens of Gaza complicit in that crime? only if they were complicit would Israel be justified in killing them in their thousands.

 

What Hamas has done is irrelevant in the justification for attacking innocent Gazan civilians.

 

It is for the same reason that the British did not kill the Irish in their thousands, because they were not complicit in what the IRA did.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No doubt a one state solution. 

Absolutely not.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

It doesn’t make any difference what Hamas has done, it’s irrelevant, what is important is that Israel doesn’t massacre, thousands of innocent civilians.

 

You argue it does not matter what hamas/Palestine has done, yet it is not just what they have done, it is what they continue to do. They continue holding hostages and attacking Israel, and killing as many Jews as they can. 

 

t started because Palestine attacked Israel, and it continues because Palestine is attacking Israel.

[Nick Carter icp]

25 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You are entirely missing the point.  What Hamas has done justifies Israel attacking Hamas. Nothing they have done or could do justifies attacking innocent civilians and killing them in their thousands in the hope of wiping out Hamas.

 

Let me give an analogy.  The IRA attack the British, The British then go in and massacre thousands of innocent civilians in the hope of eradicating the IRA, this would be equally wrong. Nothing the IRA could do would justify that kind of a massacre.

 

In the law we judge guilty or not guilt on actions only.  Provocation may affect sentencing but it does not make an illegal act into a legal one.

 

Gazan civilians are innocent, nothing Hamas has done justifies massacring them in their thousands.

 

   Innocent civilians die in every war , why should Palestinians be any different ?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

You keep mentioning Hamas and what they have done.

 

Exactly, how does that make the citizens of Gaza complicit in that crime? only if they were complicit would Israel be justified in killing them in their thousands.

 

What Hamas has done is irrelevant in the justification for attacking innocent Gazan civilians.

 

It is for the same reason that the British did not kill the Irish in their thousands, because they were not complicit in what the IRA did.

 

You keep mentioning Hamas and what they have done.

 

Yes no idea why I mention them eh.......................

[Yellowtail]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

You keep mentioning Hamas and what they have done.

 

Exactly, how does that make the citizens of Gaza complicit in that crime? only if they were complicit would Israel be justified in killing them in their thousands.

 

What Hamas has done is irrelevant in the justification for attacking innocent Gazan civilians.

 

It is for the same reason that the British did not kill the Irish in their thousands, because they were not complicit in what the IRA did.

Are Americans not complicit in what the US military does? 

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[JBChiangRai]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

You argue it does not matter what hamas/Palestine has done, yet it is not just what they have done, it is what they continue to do. They continue holding hostages and attacking Israel, and killing as many Jews as they can. 

 

t started because Palestine attacked Israel, and it continues because Palestine is attacking Israel.

You cannot say Hamas/Palestine, the former is a terrorist group and the latter is a country/innocent people.

 

You must never join the two together, it’s like saying the IRA/Irish.

[JBChiangRai]

16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Innocent civilians die in every war , why should Palestinians be any different ?

The difference is intent and scale.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You cannot say Hamas/Palestine, the former is a terrorist group and the latter is a country/innocent people.

 

You must never join the two together, it’s like saying the IRA/Irish.

No, it's like saying Americans and US military.

 

In any evet, you argue it does not matter what hamas/Palestine has done, yet it is not just what they have done, it is what they continue to do. They continue holding hostages and attacking Israel, and killing as many Jews as they can. 

 

It started because Palestine hamas attacked Israel, and it continues because Palestine hamas is attacking Israel.

[JBChiangRai]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

You keep mentioning Hamas and what they have done.

 

Yes no idea why I mention them eh.......................

it is wrong to conjoin a terrorist organisation (Hamas) with innocent Palestinian people.

 

Suppose Hamas had disappeared and were hiding in Pattaya, would that make it ok to attack Pattaya and kill 5,000 innocent Thais & Farangs in the hope of killing Hamas?  There is no difference, what Hamas has done would not give justification to kill Pattaya residents.

 

I am talking about Israel and innocent Gazan citizens, what does that have to with Hamas & Israel being at odds?  Who has the right to bring innocent 3rd parties into the conflict and massacre them in their thousands?

 

Let’s consider scale, suppose Israel dropped a nuke on Gaza, all Hamas would be killed, plus a couple of million innocent civilians.  The point I am trying to make is scale is irrelevant, it’s either ok or it isn’t.  Doing a little bit doesn’t make it ok.

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The difference is intent and scale.

 

How about some examples? 

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, it's like saying Americans and US military.

 

In any evet, you argue it does not matter what hamas/Palestine has done, yet it is not just what they have done, it is what they continue to do. They continue holding hostages and attacking Israel, and killing as many Jews as they can. 

 

It started because Palestine hamas attacked Israel, and it continues because Palestine hamas is attacking Israel.

Apart from your first line, I agree 100%.  Remove the strike through and I don’t.

Edited October 23, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

Apart from your first line, I agree 100%.  Remove the strike through and I don’t.

So why do you think it okay for hamas to continue their terrorism? 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

it is wrong to conjoin a terrorist organisation (Hamas) with innocent Palestinian people.

 

Suppose Hamas had disappeared and were hiding in Pattaya, would that make it ok to attack Pattaya and kill 5,000 innocent Thais & Farangs in the hope of killing Hamas?  There is no difference, what Hamas has done would not give justification to kill Pattaya residents.

 

I am talking about Israel and innocent Gazan citizens, what does that have to with Hamas & Israel being at odds?  Who has the right to bring innocent 3rd parties into the conflict and massacre them in their thousands?

 

Let’s consider scale, suppose Israel dropped a nuke on Gaza, all Hamas would be killed, plus a couple of million innocent civilians.  The point I am trying to make is scale is irrelevant, it’s either ok or it isn’t.  Doing a little bit doesn’t make it ok.

 

I am not conjoining a terrorist organisation (Hamas) with innocent Palestinian people, Hamas is the one doing that, they are the ones who imbedded themselves in residential areas and buildings. They are the ones who put their rocket launchers next to schools, hospitals, UN Buildings, churches and mosques, once you start to realize that then you may actually start to realize what choices the IDF have. Besides which I have already given a solution to stop the war which you ignored.