Self Defense

[girlx]

inspired by the firearms thread... i live alone (solo female) on an island in the south, and lately there have been many incidents which have shown me that i need some sort of protection for myself nowadays. i have 3 big dogs, but their bark is worse than their bite, and some of the people who might be a threat would know the dogs already. i don't want a gun- i would probably shoot myself in an episode of PMS or something. pepper spray? that's not really that effective is it? there is one mental patient in my village who was oblivious to the blows by 4 large men when he recently went through town waving a knife at people. i doubt pepper spray would deter him if i had a problem with him. does anyone have any good suggestions?

[markwhite]

lately there have been many incidents which have shown me that i need some sort of protection for myself nowadays....there is one mental patient in my village who was oblivious to the blows by 4 large men when he recently went through town waving a knife at people

I've sat trying to think of a helpful response about what self defense would be useful against a knife-wielding mental patient, and there is no easy answer. So I'll ask:

What's the Poo Yai doing about this?

[londonthai]

the patient is probably now locked in the hospital - or the community can put him there.

- get another dog, which doesn't bark but bites

- stay with somebody

- don't keep valuables home (use deposit box in the bank and money on account)

- install alarm system and carry one with you

- put barrs in the windows

- talk to neighbours to give each other protection and eventually mobilise cops to do something

- got a pepper or CS spray, don't keep in the handbag but in the pocket, ready to use within second

there are as well electric shock devices - from my experience pepper or CS spray maybe is good against dogs, but not always against drunkards, they just don't feel pain

[chinthee]

inspired by the firearms thread... i live alone (solo female) on an island in the south, and lately there have been many incidents which have shown me that i need some sort of protection for myself nowadays. i have 3 big dogs, but their bark is worse than their bite, and some of the people who might be a threat would know the dogs already. i don't want a gun- i would probably shoot myself in an episode of PMS or something. pepper spray? that's not really that effective is it? there is one mental patient in my village who was oblivious to the blows by 4 large men when he recently went through town waving a knife at people. i doubt pepper spray would deter him if i had a problem with him. does anyone have any good suggestions?

If you hit anyone with pepper spray in the face, they will have trouble breathing, be unable to see and be quite incapacitated. In any event, you should be able to make your escape and that is the goal in any self defense. You should always carry it with you, and they have clip-ons. Keep it on your bedside table. Practice how to use it quickly. At home, get a baseball bat, (you can find them in Chinatown at Khlong tom flea market in Chinatown in Bangkok) and practice swinging it in close quarters. Learn how to move forward fast and swing sideways and low for the legs and knees and groin, and not downward or upward which can be blocked or grabbed and taken away from you. Even a good shin shot will bring anyone down. If you can't find a baseball bat, go to the hardware store and buy a farming implement long wood handle, and have them cut it down to a long club size. Also, those Thai cheap hooked long cutter garden tools would be a good weapon to have close by.

I would highly suggest that every single woman get self defense training. There is a guy who recently advertise a Krav self defense program in Pattaya. I would go do it. Search the sports threads maybe for that.

Finally, I would strongly suggest a backup weapon at your bedside, perhaps under the bed in reach. This is in case you are surpised in bed. Buy a large pointed knife, and in the worst case you will have to use this. Again, practice reaching for it from bed in sleeping position, and make sure the handle is always in the same place. However, I highly discourage using a knife in any other situation without lots of training.

Finally, on the street, make sure you wear a belt, which you can also swing as a weapon with the buckle end in a confrontation.

[a2396]

Electric stun guns probably would work, but I doubt if they are legal here. Mace is stronger than pepper spray, but I don't know about the legality here.

[GuestHouse]

I've just spent the last week on a personal safety course in preparation for my next assignment to Saudi Arabia.

The advice I was given is consistent with the advice I was given on the last two such courses I attended.

The best defence you have is to trust your instincts – If your instincts are telling you a place or situation is not safe, then it almost certainly is not – Listen to your instincts and trust what they are telling you.

If you once escape a dangerous situation never go back, not to collect anything/anyone, not with the police or anyone else that you would normally trust – You have been lucky once, do not push your luck.

Do not carry a weapon - you probably do not know how to use it – you are probably not psychologically capable of using it – Attacks happen so qucikly that you probably would not ahve time to use it - You may very well be brining the only weapon to a danagerous situation and it may be taken off you and used on you. A weapon immediately raises the stakes and the tensions. For all the reasons above a weapon may create a false sense of security leading you to go into places/situations you ought to avoid – Again back to trusting your instincts.

The single most common factor in dangerous situations is alcohol - Moderate your drinking in new situations/company and be very observant of the drinking/behaviour of others around you.

Now for all those gun toting rednecks who believe they are man enough to carry and use a weapon, the course I have just been on is run by the UK government and staffed by ex special forces (The real ones, not those dreamers sitting on bar stools down Soi No Hope).

Girlx, if you don’t feel safe, move to where you do.

[TAWP]

GH continues his tiring slandering that anyone that is or has worn weapons are guntoting rednecks...how impressive.

girlx>> The leftist would tell you to always yell fire if you are assaulted. And then wait 10-15min until help arrives. Remember to keep thinking happy thoughts during any [sexual] assault and feel happy knowing that atleast you aren't a redneck.

[chinthee]

GH continues his tiring slandering that anyone that is or has worn weapons are guntoting rednecks...how impressive.

girlx>> The leftist would tell you to always yell fire if you are assaulted. And then wait 10-15min until help arrives. Remember to keep thinking happy thoughts during any [sexual] assault and feel happy knowing that atleast you aren't a redneck.

Seconded. (not the slap against GH as I have no personal beef). But, people you have to get REAL. Get smart. Get some basic training. Be prepared at all times. Don't be paranoid, just ready. And GH is absolutely right, that the best personal training starts with awareness and other things, and that attacks can happen quickly. But, many attacks you can sense being set up, and the absolute first rule is to look for escape routes and take them. Failing that, you need to learn how to hurt somebody.

[GuestHouse]

TAWP, do try to be a bit more adult old chap.

worn weapons

- A fine example of 'Illusion to Ramboesque escapades'. Edited July 16, 2007 by GuestHouse

[GracelessFawn]

I once know a neighbor who had acres of land. He had 5 dogs roaming the area, all had a procedure done in the throat or thereabouts so they can no longer bite.

Edited July 16, 2007 by GracelessFawn

[sbk]

Lets play nice boys, and try to get back on topic, please

[Gary A]

A baseball bat within easy reach will work wonders.

[Dustoff]

Decent responses all around but..

The last thing the usual assailant wants is public attention. Hence, avoid uninhabited places, especially at night. Put yourself in to the mind of an attacker who likely has an agenda, especially against an innocent woman, than pure violence.

Even when confronted by a weapon, the old military training is to escape as soon as possible - do NOT allow an attacker to take you somewhere/anywhere that gives them further advantage over you.

As my Thai wife says, LUN LIKE hel_l!! And Scream - at the top of your lungs! Drawing attention to yourself and your attacker is a defense in itself and it is unusual that an attacker will use his weapon or chase you down when it will futher expose himself.

In your own home? This is part of what the firearms post is about but getting training in self-defense is always a good thing and I have the above-mentioned hardwood axe-handle cut to size in our home and am training my wife in 'swinging low'.

If you don't have a remote car-alarm device, see about getting one. They will work in your home and you can trigger your car horn even from your bedroom; and don't forget to tell the neighbors to come running if they hear your's go off in the middle of the night. There are also home alarms that can be set off by remote which will sound alarms and flashing lights that will be incredibly worrisome to a burgler.

The key is being smarter than they are which isn't all that difficult.

Be safe, girlx...

[steveromagnino]

having learned a fighting art for a while, I would say that it is invaluable to know a bit, but as they say a little learning is a dangerous thing.

I would definitely not be the one carrying weapons unless you know and are willing to use them.

Knives, bats etc - a smallish woman may be unable to damage someone sufficiently to stop them grabbing it and using it against you - sprays etc provide perhaps a greater margin of safety.

I have seen some experienced knife users sparring; down in the south of Thailand there are some guys who would be fairly adept at using a blade with rubber tapping, fish gutting etc; you have no idea how good they might be at getting such a thing off you and using it against you. Ditto for basic body movement and so on; someone who doesn't really know how to use a bat or similar is going to get it taken off them.

As far as the gun brigade goes, I don't come from the States so gun culture isn't really part of something I know; suffice to say if you have one and pull it you better be prepared to use it. And you probably better be prepared to deal with the repucussions of someone coming for revenge - hitting a guy is a (excuse the pun) slap in the face, but pulling a gun on someone is a major affront and I would expect that as in other parts of the world, it will either be all over that night with someone seriously hurt and the other person in a world of legal problems, and/or a series of tit for tat retaliations from family/friends/the person themselves.

My dad was charged with assault for hitting a burglar with a rowing oar, and several of my Muay Thai buddies working security were at various points charged with using their skills in self defense; a gun would be on a whole other level to this.

The single best thing you can do is to learn some basic footwork hand /elbow/knee strikes and so on. And learn not to put yourself in dangerous situations. Knowing how to look after yourself and at least give yourself a chance to land one strike then run like hel_l is well worth it.

Muay Thai is not a bad sport as you also learn how to take a hit. Single best moves I can think of are:

- punch in the throat

- hands up 'don't hurt me' then a swift downward elbow to the nose or face - my own favourite

- push up into their nose hard with your palm base

- knee to the conkers

you will only get one chance to land any of these, but they should do the trick without too much legal consequence later on. Good luck :-) Most self defense schemes if they are any good should be extremely simple moves that you can practise at full power multiple times. That's the whole reason why Muay Thai is not so bad; you learn how to throw the techniques at full power. For self defense, some modifications are required as mT is a fighting sport for a ring like boxing to score points, not purely for hitting guys in the nuts.

[chinthee]

I do respect Stevero as a fellow martial arts practicioner, but with all due respect, most women only need to know a few higher percentage moves (and will be unlikely to pull off any more) moves.

1. Eye gouging. This requires you to be in close, so to use this technique you will not want to resist at first as you may get smacked by an aggressor to make you compliant. In close, gouge with all your might, and google how to do this. Another effective move is tearing the nostrils apart.

2. Pen. Get and carry a very hard metal pen with a severely strong tip. Learn how to hold this like a beer mug with the point down. keep it close and plunge it repeatedly into the soft parts of the throat and neck or eyes as hard and fast as possible.

3. Insteps, shins. If you have hard shoes, try to learn how to do simple stomps and shin/knee kicks. Again, try to google this if you can't take any self defense courses.

Run fast! Sorry to all offended by the graphic descriptions.

[madjbs]

If you’re not the type of person that can remain calm in a very stressful situation and carry on thinking rationally, then any kind of lethal weapon is really not a good idea IMO.

[Dustoff]

As a postscript:

Dogs rule! Thais have dogs for that very reason and even if they only bark, robbers/rapists tend to avoid them. Even in America, I have many police and lawyer/judge friends who tell me that homes with dogs are rarely broken into.

And if you are going to learn a martial art, find a real one. Truly defensive martial arts are not practiced as sports (like Karate or Tai Kwan Duh) and in a real-life situaltion they will only p1ss off your attacker and they will simply knife you or club you to the floor and take what they want. Were you here in CM I could show you some techniques but surely truly deadly forms are available somewhere here in Thailand without joining a 'dance club'. Keep in mind that the sport of Muay Thai is very poplular here and that to really protect yourself, you need something more effective.

[uptou]

ive considered getting my girlfreind one of those 2 prong electric stun guns that look like a mobile phone,for when she travels alone.

i should imagine a flare gun would cause even the most dedicated nutter to think again.

if it ever came to the stage where i thought i needed a weapon in thailand though,i'd just move to another area as i have nothing with me that can't be gathered up in a few minutes,& thinking about nutters attacking you all day could stop you enjoying life.

[chinthee]

As a postscript:

Dogs rule! Thais have dogs for that very reason and even if they only bark, robbers/rapists tend to avoid them. Even in America, I have many police and lawyer/judge friends who tell me that homes with dogs are rarely broken into.

And if you are going to learn a martial art, find a real one. Truly defensive martial arts are not practiced as sports (like Karate or Tai Kwan Duh) and in a real-life situaltion they will only p1ss off your attacker and they will simply knife you or club you to the floor and take what they want. Were you here in CM I could show you some techniques but surely truly deadly forms are available somewhere here in Thailand without joining a 'dance club'. Keep in mind that the sport of Muay Thai is very poplular here and that to really protect yourself, you need something more effective.

Agree 100%. don't bother with any martial art unless it is one of the dark combat arts where you learn maiming and more serious techniques. Most people won't have the stomach to actually do what they learn anyway. Just learn a couple of really pain-inflicting things that allow you to escape.

[phazey]

I've a bayonet under the bed, and a pitching wedge in the corner.

I got these after an incident a few years ago, some poor german guy down the road disturbed two burglars - he had nothing close to hand, and sustained terrible injuries.

Turns out the two were targeting foreigners - the following week they jumped over my fence - luckily my then security guard, who i thought came round to sleep - fended them off with a catapult. Since i'm living alone now, and in an apartment block, there us still the "fear" sometimes at night.

[girlx]

thanks everyone for your tips. i am trying to not be paranoid but rather prepared. i don't feel unsafe in general, and i have lived here for almost 3 years alone. but i have had 2 guys break into my house before, and though they left politely when i asked them to, maybe next time i wouldn't be so lucky. that is my only real worry. i bought pepper spray in bangkok but i forgot i couldn't take it on the plane! so had to dump it in suvarnabhumi. might look in samui soon.

[t.s]

inspired by the firearms thread... i live alone (solo female) on an island in the south, and lately there have been many incidents which have shown me that i need some sort of protection for myself nowadays. i have 3 big dogs, but their bark is worse than their bite, and some of the people who might be a threat would know the dogs already. i don't want a gun- i would probably shoot myself in an episode of PMS or something. pepper spray? that's not really that effective is it? there is one mental patient in my village who was oblivious to the blows by 4 large men when he recently went through town waving a knife at people. i doubt pepper spray would deter him if i had a problem with him. does anyone have any good suggestions?

get outta tong nai pan was my first thought, but that hardly seems helpful.

Edited July 16, 2007 by t.s

[goldfish]

The best defence you have is to trust your instincts – If your instincts are telling you a place or situation is not safe, then it almost certainly is not – Listen to your instincts and trust what they are telling you.

If you once escape a dangerous situation never go back, not to collect anything/anyone, not with the police or anyone else that you would normally trust – You have been lucky once, do not push your luck.

Do not carry a weapon - you probably do not know how to use it – you are probably not psychologically capable of using it – Attacks happen so qucikly that you probably would not ahve time to use it - You may very well be brining the only weapon to a danagerous situation and it may be taken off you and used on you. A weapon immediately raises the stakes and the tensions. For all the reasons above a weapon may create a false sense of security leading you to go into places/situations you ought to avoid – Again back to trusting your instincts.

The single most common factor in dangerous situations is alcohol - Moderate your drinking in new situations/company and be very observant of the drinking/behaviour of others around you.

Girlx, if you don’t feel safe, move to where you do.

This thread should have ended here and the final line sums it up

[TAWP]

TAWP, do try to be a bit more adult old chap.

worn weapons

- A fine example of 'Illusion to Ramboesque escapades'.

What are you trying to say?

[Heng]

Have you chosen a safe neighborhood, condo building, etc. to live in? That's a good start. Bars, double locks, lots of good lighting, being able to communicate in Thai quickly and clearly (perhaps on the phone with the police or your neighborhood or condo security) are useful as well. Locking your bedroom door at night is simple and provides and buys you some time as well. If you live alone and you hear someone try the knob.... well you know you've got an intruder and you got a minute to ready yourself.

After all that... some of my favorites are: striking weapons: Monadknock baton, my Mizuno golf clubs, aluminum FBT bat (yes football Thai makes baseball bats), and Prince Graphite oversize rackets (those are my last resort because I have to buy those overseas); firearm: Glock 26 if I have to deal with more than one assailant (up to around 500 assailants with 10 boxes of ammo in my office touch key safe) ; and misc: my wicked collection of home improvement tools (wrenches, screwdrivers, drills, shovels, picks, etc.) in my garage.

ahh... and one final thing I just added at two of our homes,... I had our electrician install one of those really loud school/firehouse bells (you can get them at Home Pro for less than 200 Baht) wired with the switches discreetly wired in a few key locations of each home. Any problems, just flick the switch, lock the door of whatever room you are in, and wait for help to arrive (obviously you have to tell you neighbors or nearby relatives that if you hear it... to head on over in force). These "help" buttons have been standard at Land and House managed condos for some time now. Just because you're well armed doesn't mean you HAVE to do hand to hand combat in your home with intruders in the middle of the night.

[jackr]

Move

[baboon]

I truly believe your wits and mouth are your best assets. As for weapons/martial arts, I reckon they could well give you a misplaced sense of security.

[mrbojangles]

You could always marry somone like Michael Clarke Duncan that huge coloured guy from the film The Green Mile or Pierluigi Collina the bald Italian referee. Pretty sure you'd be safe with either of those 2 at your side

[uptou]

or re-watch the movie,straw dogs for tips on dealing with red neck types trying to break into your home.

[JetsetBkk]

The best defence you have is to trust your instincts – If your instincts are telling you a place or situation is not safe, then it almost certainly is not – Listen to your instincts and trust what they are telling you.

If you once escape a dangerous situation never go back, not to collect anything/anyone, not with the police or anyone else that you would normally trust – You have been lucky once, do not push your luck.

Do not carry a weapon - you probably do not know how to use it – you are probably not psychologically capable of using it – Attacks happen so qucikly that you probably would not ahve time to use it - You may very well be brining the only weapon to a danagerous situation and it may be taken off you and used on you. A weapon immediately raises the stakes and the tensions. For all the reasons above a weapon may create a false sense of security leading you to go into places/situations you ought to avoid – Again back to trusting your instincts.

The single most common factor in dangerous situations is alcohol - Moderate your drinking in new situations/company and be very observant of the drinking/behaviour of others around you.

Girlx, if you don’t feel safe, move to where you do.

This thread should have ended here and the final line sums it up

Seconded.