Failure to file Annual Tax return = 200% penalty? (180 days)

[AhFarangJa]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Who cares, if taxable income is to be declared and taxes to be paid then it should be done, that will be the law for all law abiding people, just like it is in most countries.

 

Then the govt will have more revenue to improve govt services and infrastructure to upgrade Thailand to version 2.0 so it can be like Western Europe or Singapore.

 

Suggest the govt also introduce fines, penalties and interest for not submitting tax returns if income was to be declared.

You are having a laugh.....Using tax to improve services and infrastructure. Tax is theft, pure and simple. You pay tax when you earn money, you then pay tax when you buy something, you then pay tax when you sell it. Where do you think all these government ministers in any country get their millions from. 

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

You are having a laugh.....Using tax to improve services and infrastructure. Tax is theft, pure and simple. You pay tax when you earn money, you then pay tax when you buy something, you then pay tax when you sell it. Where do you think all these government ministers in any country get their millions from. 

Soooo, if nobody were to pay tax, who will pay for the schools, the hospitals and health care system, the airports, the roads, care of the national parks and all the other things? 

[4MyEgo]

As a Non Resident, I am not required to file a tax return in the land of Oz, problem solved many moons ago, perhaps others should read up on the tax laws in their own countries and if same applies, then if suitable, become Non Residents for tax purposes.

 

No more paper shuffling.

[freeworld]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Soooo, if nobody were to pay tax, who will pay for the schools, the hospitals and health care system, the airports, the roads, care of the national parks and all the other things? 

The governments will pay.

Edited November 1, 2023 by freeworld

[Mike Lister]

Just now, freeworld said:

The government will pay.

Using what for money, banana leaves?

[The Cyclist]

Another fun thread 😀😀

 

Quote

Failure to file Annual Tax return = 200% penalty? (180 days)

 

Lets add to the hilarity and add

 

In addition, the following penalties will also apply

 

* 200 years in the Bangkok Hilton

 

If you survive that

 

* 200 years hard labour in rice paddies of your choice.

 

Should you miraculously survive that.

 

* Automatic deportation and a 200 year ban from entering Thailand

 

Or you could ignore the doom & gloom and await Official clarification before making plans to sign up for the Pattaya balcony diving club.

Edited November 1, 2023 by The Cyclist
typo

[mfd101]

16 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

As a Non Resident, I am not required to file a tax return in the land of Oz, problem solved many moons ago, perhaps others should read up on the tax laws in their own countries and if same applies, then if suitable, become Non Residents for tax purposes.

 

No more paper shuffling.

So you have no Oz-sourced income? [I'm a 'non-res for tax purposes' but my entire incomes are from Oz and I pay more tax than I did when I was a resident.]

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, freeworld said:

Who cares, if taxable income is to be declared and taxes to be paid then it should be done, that will be the law for all law abiding people, just like it is in most countries.

 

Then the govt will have more revenue to improve govt services and infrastructure to upgrade Thailand to version 2.0 so it can be like Western Europe or Singapore.

 

Suggest the govt also introduce fines, penalties and interest for not submitting tax returns if income was to be declared.

Congratulations on one of the best urine extractions I have seen posted on ASEAN for quite a while.

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

If I am not mistaken.. The new tax laws only apply to those foreigners who generate income in another country and transfer it to Thailand. Those who get retirement benefits as their source of income will not be required to pay tax.. Those who paid tax already in their country where the income was earned can not be charged 2 times so will not have to pay tax also. So most foreigners who have retired to Thailand will not need to worry about paying this tax. This was my understanding of it when I read the new laws. 

Someone is welcome to correct me if i am mistaken

I tend to agree with your statement. However in my case the Canadian tax authority deems that my pension income is below a certain threshold and states in a letter that I should pay zero income tax which I do not.My pensions are tax free.

My concern is whether or or not the Thai RD will acknowledge this detemination or will they insist on some tax?    

[4MyEgo]

24 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

So you have no Oz-sourced income? [I'm a 'non-res for tax purposes' but my entire incomes are from Oz and I pay more tax than I did when I was a resident.]

 

There are legal loopholes that allow you to pay no tax as a non resident, they are:

 

Australian Stock Market fully franked dividend paying stocks, as the tax is already taken out by the company before they pay you.

 

Interest from bank, otherwise known as Withholding tax, i.e. the bank withholds 10% of the interest you earn and forwards that to the ATO on your behalf.

 

If you have property and receive rent, then you are screwed, e.g. 32% of every $ is taxed with no threshold, you cannot negatively gear the property and claim losses until the day you sell it, and then you will pay heavy capital gains tax back from the day you purchased it if it was your principal place of residence.

 

Are you working in Thailand and being paid in Australia, or do you work as a nomad and get paid into an Australian bank account ?

[freeworld]

Serious question, is govt going to tax all remittance transfers to Thailand, even if it is pure savings?

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Serious question, is govt going to tax all remittance transfers to Thailand, even if it is pure savings?

No.

[freeworld]

17 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No.

Thanks.

[The Cyclist]

34 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

There are legal loopholes that allow you to pay no tax as a non resident, they are:

 

No dog in this fight between 2 Aussies, but does the above not contradict the following ?
 

36 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Australian Stock Market fully franked dividend paying stocks, as the tax is already taken out by the company before they pay you.

 

36 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

nterest from bank, otherwise known as Withholding tax, i.e. the bank withholds 10% of the interest you earn and forwards that to the ATO on your behalf.

 

Taxes are still being paid. Or is that tax reclaimable if you have Aussie non-dom status ?

[ballpoint]

If you "earn" less than THB 150,000 in a given year you don't have to pay income tax, and are exempt from filing a return.  The company I worked for filed one for me in Bangkok every year I was working, but since retiring I changed my tax jurisdiction to my home province and visit them each year showing my bank statements for Thailand and the overseas account I transfer from.  Each time I'm told I don't need to file a return.  This includes a year that I was audited by the revenue department.

 

Staying below THB 150,000 has been easy to do under the current law, but may involve more effort / be impossible going forward, depending on how the new directive is implemented.  The countless speculation on multiple threads is quite worthless until the full details are disclosed.

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, thesetat said:

If I am not mistaken.. The new tax laws only apply to those foreigners who generate income in another country and transfer it to Thailand. Those who get retirement benefits as their source of income will not be required to pay tax.. Those who paid tax already in their country where the income was earned can not be charged 2 times so will not have to pay tax also. So most foreigners who have retired to Thailand will not need to worry about paying this tax. This was my understanding of it when I read the new laws. 

Someone is welcome to correct me if i am mistaken

Misconceptions.

You need to read the DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) appropriate to your Home Country / Country of Residence / Source of Income.

E.G. In the UK/Thailand DTA the only pensions that get relief (i.e. pay HMRC, pay Thailand, claim back from HMRC) from Double taxation are Civil Service & Local Government pensioners. The DTA is silent with regards to taxing / relief of State & Private pensions.

In saying that I personally don't believe too many will be impacted significantly enough to cause them severe problems. Those that use an agents 800k for their extension and a foreign Credit Card for daily money would be almost untraceable in the Thai banking system, to the extent that trying to identify them to pay tax would probably be more hassle than it's worth.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

There are legal loopholes that allow you to pay no tax as a non resident, they are:

 

Australian Stock Market fully franked dividend paying stocks, as the tax is already taken out by the company before they pay you.

 

Interest from bank, otherwise known as Withholding tax, i.e. the bank withholds 10% of the interest you earn and forwards that to the ATO on your behalf.

 

If you have property and receive rent, then you are screwed, e.g. 32% of every $ is taxed with no threshold, you cannot negatively gear the property and claim losses until the day you sell it, and then you will pay heavy capital gains tax back from the day you purchased it if it was your principal place of residence.

 

Are you working in Thailand and being paid in Australia, or do you work as a nomad and get paid into an Australian bank account ?

None of the above. I have an old (long-closed) Federal government superannuation (CSC) which is funded from consolidated revenue each year & is taxed 'coming out' because not taxed 'going in'. So I now pay the 32% tax on every part of that part of my income. Didn't have to do that until I became a NRfTP 3 or 4 years ago.

[4MyEgo]

28 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

None of the above. I have an old (long-closed) Federal government superannuation (CSC) which is funded from consolidated revenue each year & is taxed 'coming out' because not taxed 'going in'. So I now pay the 32% tax on every part of that part of my income. Didn't have to do that until I became a NRfTP 3 or 4 years ago.

 

Sounds like you didn't obtain professional advice when retiring as I know a few guys who have superannuation and get money via an income stream and they tell me they pay zero tax.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

Taxes are still being paid. Or is that tax reclaimable if you have Aussie non-dom status ?

 

Technically speaking tax is paid out by the company paying you the dividend, i.e. 30c vs 32c and 10% on interest earned is better than 32c in the $.

 

The above said, if you retain your Oz residency you don't taxed on the 1st $18,200 then it's 19c in the $ thereafter up to I believe $37,000, then it goes up to 32c in the $ thereafter.

 

You also get tax credits on the dividends that you paid tax on, that said, it's impossible to retain residency if your living overseas full time as this is your abode, some will argue, but it's complicated, and I know in my situation, I cannot argue with the taxman, i.e. I am a non resident for tax purposes.

[In Full Agreement]

4 hours ago, mfd101 said:

The question then is: Will we nevertheless still have to file a return?

 

 

The simple answer is NO.

[The Cyclist]

41 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Technically speaking tax is paid out by the company paying you the dividend, i.e. 30c vs 32c and 10% on interest earned is better than 32c in the $.

 

So in effect it is your money being taxed, with the tax being deducted at source and paid on your behalf.

 

I was really asking if this money is reclaimable if you are a non-dom for tax purposes.

 

In the UK, there are ( or was ) 2 different types of non-dom status.

 

Type 1. Basically no more than 90 days in the UK or overseas income becomes taxable in the UK. Any income derived in the UK is still subject to UK tax.

 

Type 2. A fixed amount of tax ( based on various factors ) agreed by / with HMRC on overseas income and the 90 day in the UK rule does not apply. Ncome derived in the UK is still subject to normal UK taxation.

 

That is the basics, unless you can afford £5000 an hour tax magicians.

[treetops]

6 hours ago, freeworld said:

. . . . . .so it can be like Western Europe or Singapore.

Yeah, that's what we all want isn't it?

[4MyEgo]

43 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So in effect it is your money being taxed, with the tax being deducted at source and paid on your behalf.

 

Long of the short, yes this is my money being taxed at the source, i.e. a flat rate of 30c in the $ regardless of how much I make on dividends, e.g. $100,000 profit - $30,000 tax - $70,000 net to me.

 

If I was a resident for tax purposes, the first $18,200 is tax free, suffice to say, tax over $18,201 to $45,000 @ 0.19c in the $ = $4,823.82, then $45,001 to $120,000 @ 32.5c in the $ = $17,874.77, so your total tax payable would be $22,698.50 vs $30,000. If resident you do get a franking credit on the tax paid so you don't pay tax twice.

 

So one might say that the non resident is paying more tax than the resident, correct, however a non resident pays zero capital gains tax when he disposes of his shares, whereas the CGT payable by a resident goes according to the amount of income earned in that year, suffice to say 37% over $120,000 earned or 45% over $180,001.

 

All of the above said, it works better for me as a non resident, because I buy and sell shares and pay no CGT, while paying a dividend tax from the dividends being paid.

 

The whole benefit is to pay zero tax on CGT, that is the sweetener vs paying CGT as a resident.

 

Better than a kick in the teeth so to speak 🙂