Hezbollah leader threatens to escalate Israel-Hamas war to protect Gaza

[Morch]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Maybe this will jog your memory:

 

 

Oh...You're somehow under the impression your posts are some focal point of my existence? That they are somehow more 'special' than the many other posts I comment on? Evaporated.....lol....more like an overly inflated sense of importance.

 

It's not too complicated.

Palestinians have no issues risking their lives fighting Israel for 'freedom' (or whatever).

Somehow, that's not much of thing when dealing with their own respective leaderships.

 

 

[Danderman123]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:07 AM, 2baht said:

I don't condone for a minute what Hamas have done but eliminating Hamas is not Netanyahoo's goal, his goal is total genocide in Palestine!

Are you drunk?

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Oh...You're somehow under the impression your posts are some focal point of my existence? That they are somehow more 'special' than the many other posts I comment on? Evaporated.....lol....more like an overly inflated sense of importance.

 

It's not too complicated.

Palestinians have no issues risking their lives fighting Israel for 'freedom' (or whatever).

Somehow, that's not much of thing when dealing with their own respective leaderships.

 

 

Given that the only time you don't reply is when you're flummoxed, I do have the impression that you need to get the last word in. Not saying that I don't suffer from that condition myself.

Well, their own respective leaderships know that if they were to offer the Israelis something first, their futures, if not their lives, would be endangered. They tread very carefully.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Given that the only time you don't reply is when you're flummoxed, I do have the impression that you need to get the last word in. Not saying that I don't suffer from that condition myself.

Well, their own respective leaderships know that if they were to offer the Israelis something first, their futures, if not their lives, would be endangered. They tread very carefully.

 

Flummoxed? Evaporated? You sure do have a lively imagination.

 

So, if I got your 'take' right - the Palestinian people are pro-peace, but their leaderships won't make a move because if they do their future (and possibly, lives) will be in endangered. Do you see anything problematic with this hypothetical formula?

[Yagoda]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

What is your problem.

 

Do you not the truth about yourself.

 

Have you elected yourself as the person who decides which people are antiemetic?

 

I am so scared that you have threatened me.

I havent threatened you LOL. In my mileau, there arent threats.

 

On the other hand, your ideology is a threat to my fellow Americans.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Are you drunk?

No he's not.

While netanyahu may not have outright said he wants to completely destroy Gaza, it's pretty apparent to anyone that Hamas can't be destroyed without killing every Gazan as it's an idea, not an army. Kill all Hamas fighters and more will rise up to take their place.

 

Anyway, this minister certainly wants to completely destroy Gaza

 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/06/israeli-minister-says-nuking-gaza-an-option-communications-blackout-palestinian-icon-arres

Israel's heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu said on Sunday that one of Israel’s options could be to drop a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip. 

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No he's not.

While netanyahu may not have outright said he wants to completely destroy Gaza, it's pretty apparent to anyone that Hamas can't be destroyed without killing every Gazan as it's an idea, not an army. Kill all Hamas fighters and more will rise up to take their place.

 

Anyway, this minister certainly wants to completely destroy Gaza

 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/06/israeli-minister-says-nuking-gaza-an-option-communications-blackout-palestinian-icon-arres

Israel's heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu said on Sunday that one of Israel’s options could be to drop a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip. 

The Israelis will do what is right for their citizens, it is their duty to do this, there must never be another 7th Oct!

[Danderman123]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No he's not.

While netanyahu may not have outright said he wants to completely destroy Gaza, it's pretty apparent to anyone that Hamas can't be destroyed without killing every Gazan as it's an idea, not an army. Kill all Hamas fighters and more will rise up to take their place.

 

Anyway, this minister certainly wants to completely destroy Gaza

 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/06/israeli-minister-says-nuking-gaza-an-option-communications-blackout-palestinian-icon-arres

Israel's heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu said on Sunday that one of Israel’s options could be to drop a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip. 

Yeah, that guy got fired fast.

 

Meanwhile, Gaza has been cut in half by the IDF, and Hamas in the northern half will be eradicated.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Yeah, that guy got fired fast.

 

Meanwhile, Gaza has been cut in half by the IDF, and Hamas in the northern half will be eradicated.

Fired? I don't think so. All that I saw was that he isn't allowed to attend cabinet meetings.

 

Seems that Hamas isn't doing too badly against the mighty israeli army, as how many days since the invasion started? I think Mosul took about 3 months, and the Americans didn't have half the countries of the world against them in that conflict.

 

I'm sure that every Hamas fighter knew that it was suicide mission, and that capture would be worse than death. They also know that for each of them probably a dozen more will join Hamas to fight the hated israelis again. The occupation and daily humiliation by the israeli oppressors is an excellent recruiting agent.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No he's not.

While netanyahu may not have outright said he wants to completely destroy Gaza, it's pretty apparent to anyone that Hamas can't be destroyed without killing every Gazan as it's an idea, not an army. Kill all Hamas fighters and more will rise up to take their place.

 

Anyway, this minister certainly wants to completely destroy Gaza

 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/06/israeli-minister-says-nuking-gaza-an-option-communications-blackout-palestinian-icon-arres

Israel's heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu said on Sunday that one of Israel’s options could be to drop a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip. 

 

It is not 'pretty apparent to anyone' - other than in your mind. Plenty of posts to the contrary alone make your comment nonsensical.

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Yeah, that guy got fired fast.

 

Meanwhile, Gaza has been cut in half by the IDF, and Hamas in the northern half will be eradicated.

 

He was not fired.

Netanyahu wanted to, but backed off, as it would have probably meant coalition and government falling apart.

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fired? I don't think so. All that I saw was that he isn't allowed to attend cabinet meetings.

 

Seems that Hamas isn't doing too badly against the mighty israeli army, as how many days since the invasion started? I think Mosul took about 3 months, and the Americans didn't have half the countries of the world against them in that conflict.

 

I'm sure that every Hamas fighter knew that it was suicide mission, and that capture would be worse than death. They also know that for each of them probably a dozen more will join Hamas to fight the hated israelis again. The occupation and daily humiliation by the israeli oppressors is an excellent recruiting agent.

 

You can think what you like.

Not doing too bad how? All them thousands dead not their people? You really imagine casualty figures do not include Hamas men? How are they not doing too bad with most public opinion against them (not the same as vs. the People of Gaza)? What ME countries actually support them?

 

While you may go on and on praising Hamas men - considering the clips released of interviews with those captured by Israel, they seem to break real quick under pressure. Not to mention most of the attackers getting killed in the first two days, or that Israeli casualties since the ground attack started are low.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fired? I don't think so. All that I saw was that he isn't allowed to attend cabinet meetings.

 

Seems that Hamas isn't doing too badly against the mighty israeli army, as how many days since the invasion started? I think Mosul took about 3 months, and the Americans didn't have half the countries of the world against them in that conflict.

 

I'm sure that every Hamas fighter knew that it was suicide mission, and that capture would be worse than death. They also know that for each of them probably a dozen more will join Hamas to fight the hated israelis again. The occupation and daily humiliation by the israeli oppressors is an excellent recruiting agent.

It is just a matter of time.

 

Israel will beat Hamas. The question then is the followup.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

It is just a matter of time.

 

Israel will beat Hamas. The question then is the followup.

Let's just hope that the Israelis marmalise them so there's no need for a replay. 

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm sure that every Hamas fighter knew that it was suicide mission, and that capture would be worse than death. They also know that for each of them probably a dozen more will join Hamas to fight the hated israelis again. The occupation and daily humiliation by the israeli oppressors is an excellent recruiting agent.

You’ve got that seriously mixed up there apologist. Hamas are the terrorists and it’s the IDF that should fear capture by them. 

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

You can think what you like.

Not doing too bad how? All them thousands dead not their people? You really imagine casualty figures do not include Hamas men? How are they not doing too bad with most public opinion against them (not the same as vs. the People of Gaza)? What ME countries actually support them?

 

While you may go on and on praising Hamas men - considering the clips released of interviews with those captured by Israel, they seem to break real quick under pressure. Not to mention most of the attackers getting killed in the first two days, or that Israeli casualties since the ground attack started are low.

 

You could see the online video postings of Hamas destroying in Gaza between 2 to 5 Merkava's/AIFV's/Cat per day with their DIY RPG's.

 

Gaza city might be surrounded but it's a graveyard of a mechanized brigade. Israeli KIA toll is estimated to 34 as per Israeli press.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/idf-death-toll-reaches-34-as-second-week-of-gaza-ground-operation-begins-3kXq93WRvIMA6LhmbFYyAE

 

Out of the estimated +/-40.000 Hamas militants there are no reports available of how many have been eliminated since the start of the IDF ground offensive? You might conquer perhaps an area, but you didn't conquer your enemy...

Edited November 7, 2023 by Thorgal

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

You could see the online video postings of Hamas destroying in Gaza between 2 to 5 Merkava's/AIFV's/Cat per day with their DIY RPG's.

 

Gaza city might be surrounded but it's a graveyard of a mechanized brigade. Israeli KIA toll is estimated to 34 as per Israeli press.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/idf-death-toll-reaches-34-as-second-week-of-gaza-ground-operation-begins-3kXq93WRvIMA6LhmbFYyAE

 

Out of the estimated +/-40.000 Hamas militants there are no reports available of how many have been eliminated since the start of the IDF ground offensive? You might conquer perhaps an area, but you didn't conquer your enemy...

You could see the online video postings of Hamas destroying in Gaza between 2 to 5 Merkava's/AIFV's/Cat per day with their DIY RPG's.

 

Really? Everyday? Links?

[Thorgal]

28 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You could see the online video postings of Hamas destroying in Gaza between 2 to 5 Merkava's/AIFV's/Cat per day with their DIY RPG's.

 

Really? Everyday? Links?

 

Check out Hindustan Times videos they release all Hamas video's on their channel :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLZRJiX3bhQ

 

If you don't like Hindustan Times, just write them an e-mail.

No need to explain you want news outlets that you prefer (perhaps Fox, CNN or CNBC...) as you did before.

 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Check out Hindustan Times videos they release all Hamas video's on their channel :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLZRJiX3bhQ

 

If you don't like Hindustan Times, just write them an e-mail.

No need to explain you want news outlets that you prefer (perhaps Fox, CNN or CNBC...) as you did before.

 

That vid does not back your claims here:

55 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

You could see the online video postings of Hamas destroying in Gaza between 2 to 5 Merkava's/AIFV's/Cat per day with their DIY RPG's.

Can you link to where I stated my preferred media outlets?

11 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

No need to explain you want news outlets that you prefer (perhaps Fox, CNN or CNBC...) as you did before.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[billd766]

8 hours ago, Yagoda said:

I havent threatened you LOL. In my mileau, there arent threats.

 

On the other hand, your ideology is a threat to my fellow Americans.

And your ideology is a threat to millions of innocent Palestinians. The USA can defend itself and many other countries.

 

The Palestinians living in Gaza cannot.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And your ideology is a threat to millions of innocent Palestinians. The USA can defend itself and many other countries.

 

The Palestinians living in Gaza cannot.

 

They only reason they need to 'defend' themselves is because Hamas started this, taking the decision to sacrifice them.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, Yagoda said:

I havent threatened you LOL. In my mileau, there arent threats.

 

On the other hand, your ideology is a threat to my fellow Americans.

Why don't you search the internet and find out which country most Americans threatens them the most. Which country slaughters the most innocent American men, women and children indiscriminately.

 

You may well find it is the USA with massacres happening weekly in schools, shopping malls and even on the streets,

 

Your fellow Americans are the biggest threat to your fellow Americans.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Yeah, that guy got fired fast.

 

Meanwhile, Gaza has been cut in half by the IDF, and Hamas in the northern half will be eradicated.

Actually he was not fired at all, Merely suspended.

 

Suspended is NOT FIRED.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/world/middleeast/amichay-eliyahu-israel-minister-nuclear-bomb-gaza.html#:~:text=Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel took the highly unusual,with the threat from Hamas.

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel took the highly unusual step on Sunday of suspending a far-right minister from his government, after the minister said that dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza and killing everyone there was “one way” of dealing with 

the threat from Hamas.

Mr. Netanyahu’s swift action came amid an immediate and broad outcry over the comments made on Sunday morning by Amichay Eliyahu, the minister of heritage from the ultranationalist Jewish Power party. In his remarks, made to a Hebrew radio station, Mr. Eliyahu also said that there was no such thing as noncombatants in Gaza. 

Still, his abrupt suspension appeared to reflect Mr. Netanyahu’s concerns both over the low levels of public confidence in his leadership, as shown by recent opinion polls, and the challenges Israel faces in maintaining international support amid its assault in Gaza, particularly given the high civilian death toll there.

In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu called Mr. Eliyahu’s remarks “disconnected from reality.” Israel and its military “act according to the highest standards of international law in order to prevent harm to noncombatants, and we will continue to do so until victory,” he added.

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Flummoxed? Evaporated? You sure do have a lively imagination.

 

So, if I got your 'take' right - the Palestinian people are pro-peace, but their leaderships won't make a move because if they do their future (and possibly, lives) will be in endangered. Do you see anything problematic with this hypothetical formula?

If you got it right, then yes, that would be a paradox. But you got it wrong. What I have written is if the Israelis were to cease the oppressive measures that they rule the Palestinians with in the West Bank, then the Palestinian people could support negotiations. But, as I've repeatedly noted, why negotiate with someone whose beating you over the head and gives no indication that they plan to stop?

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

It is just a matter of time.

 

Israel will beat Hamas. The question then is the followup.

The Israeli's probably will beat Hamas in Gaza, but Hamas is not just confined to Gaza, they are in most Arab countries as well.

 

Will Israel, under Netanyahu then start attacking its neighbour countries. If they do, where will they stop.

 

Netanyahu wants to kill, murder, slaughter every man woman and child in Gaza to eliminate Hamas.

 

Make a wild stab in the dark guess. Go into whataboutery if you wish.

Having achieved his aim of wiping out Hamas in Gaza what will he do with the land?

 

The sad thing for him is that he will have earned the hatred of millions of people world wide, and for what?

 

What will the US do about him. More importantly what will Russia and China do about him? What will all the Arab and Muslim states do about him?

Edited November 7, 2023 by billd766

[Morch]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If you got it right, then yes, that would be a paradox. But you got it wrong. What I have written is if the Israelis were to cease the oppressive measures that they rule the Palestinians with in the West Bank, then the Palestinian people could support negotiations. But, as I've repeatedly noted, why negotiate with someone whose beating you over the head and gives no indication that they plan to stop?

 

Other than what you present is a variation for all or nothing (which I doubt is ever a good position), I'm not sure it actually represents actual Palestinian positions. If it's your opinion, then it sounds more like a theoretical, moral argument from a (far?) left-wing wing point of view. It does not really offer a way out of the mess, but rather focuses on being right, or righteous. It's not pragmatic, and it cannot lead anywhere much.

 

People do not always negotiate because the circumstances are quite as they would like, or even fair. People often negotiate because there is not much of an alternative, or other options being worse.

 

It could be mirrored by some Israeli positions who see negotiations with the Palestinians as dependent on no terrorism, renouncing major claims from the get go and so on. That too probably leads nowhere, and same as your position, basically serves to stall things further.

 

Setting up unrealistic conditions is like that.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Morch

[placeholder]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Other than what you present is a variation for all or nothing (which I doubt is ever a good position), I'm not sure it actually represents actual Palestinian positions. If it's your opinion, then it sounds more like a theoretical, moral argument from a (far?) left-wing wing point of view. It does not really offer a way out of the mess, but rather focuses on being right, or righteous. It's not pragmatic, and it cannot lead anywhere much.

 

People do not always negotiate because the circumstances are quite as they would like, or even fair. People often negotiate because there is not much of an alternative, or other options being worse.

 

It could be mirrored by some Israeli positions who see negotiations with the Palestinians as dependent on no terrorism, renouncing major claims from the get go and so on. That too probably leads nowhere, and same as your position, basically serves to stall things further.

 

Setting up unrealistic conditions is like that.

Please, Israel's anti-Palestinian policy is authorized by the Israeli government. Is terrorism on the West Bank the official policy of the PA? Does it even have the means to stifle it?

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The Israeli's probably will beat Hamas in Gaza, but Hamas is not just confined to Gaza, they are in most Arab countries as well.

 

Will Israel, under Netanyahu then start attacking its neighbour countries. If they do, where will they stop.

 

Netanyahu wants to kill, murder, slaughter every man woman and child in Gaza to eliminate Hamas.

 

Make a wild stab in the dark guess. Go into whataboutery if you wish.

Having achieved his aim of wiping out Hamas in Gaza what will he do with the land?

 

The sad thing for him is that he will have earned the hatred of millions of people world wide, and for what?

 

What will the US do about him. More importantly what will Russia and China do about him? What will all the Arab and Muslim states do about him?

 

There is no real talk about destroying each and every Hamas member in the Middle East.

Realistically, the goals are limited to breaking Hamas hold on the Gaza Strip, dismantling most of its assets, and making it much less of threat.

There will almost definitely be a follow-up operation in the West Bank, to uproot Hamas terrorist infrastructure and outfits. Not on the same scale as Gaza, of course.

 

Netanyahu does not want to kill all Gazans' other than in your imaginations and posts. It will do him no favors anyway.'

 

If Israel succeeds taking down Hamas, I guess there will be a period of negotiations resulting in the Gaza Strip being managed by the PA and/or international parties. Security issues will be mostly handled by Israel. There would be a whole lot of money pouring in for rehabilitation and reconstruction - perhaps without Hamas, it would be properly used.

 

Nothing will be 'done' about him. There's no such international mission to do something about him. The most that can be hoped for is that he'll lose his political power, and his trials - maybe go behind bars for a while.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Please, Israel's anti-Palestinian policy is authorized by the Israeli government. Is terrorism on the West Bank the official policy of the PA? Does it even have the means to stifle it?

 

One, Israel's policies in the West Bank are part government, and part illegal settlers doing their thing to the extant the government lets them. This government is the most right wing Israel had, hence. Two, the PA is often described by Palestinians as collaborating with Israel, especially on security issues. There's quite a lot of arms, equipment and training going into this. So yes, it does have the power to stifle things, or to let them loose - a card which the PA often plays, or threatens to play. It could do more, of course, but at the price of clashing with either Hamas or local clans. So the level of control it can exert is somewhat location dependent.

 

 

[billd766]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Please, Israel's anti-Palestinian policy is authorized by the Israeli government. Is terrorism on the West Bank the official policy of the PA? Does it even have the means to stifle it?

Can you please explain the difference.

 

Both leadership have expressed the desire to wipe each other out.

 

Neither side cares about the fate of the innocent men, women and children of either side.

 

IMHO the best solution is to put the top 500 members on either side into a completely sealed area, naked, no food or water and NO weapons.

 

Let them kill each other if they want.

 

You would probably only need to do that 2 or 3 times  before somebody on either side comes up with a peace plan that works.

 

If not then keep repeating until it does work.

 

Personally I would like to see all the countries in the world led and staffed entirely by women.

 

They are so much smarter than men and mostly more honest too.