Bitkub is asking for KYC again. After logging in KYC is disabled for foreigners....

[Jenkins9039]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:57 PM, ukrules said:

I've been using UpBit Thailand as I mentioned previously

 

Now here's something interesting which doesn't affect Thai users (yet?) but as UpBit is a massive Korean exchange with foreign branches in various places including Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia.

They often send out emails highlighting upcoming changes in any of the places they operate.

 

A lot of noise was made early in 2023 about UpBit implementing the 'travel rule' - that did not happen as planned in March but I believe it's live for Singapore now, I think the Koreans have been effectively banned from withdrawing anything for years already.

 

The 'travel rule' restricts what you can do with your assets - it should be called the 'no travel rule' as it will mostly prevent anyone from making withdrawals due to the extra hassle involved.

 

So apparently if you buy some crypto asset (any asset I think) and want to withdraw it in Singapore you need to prove that the withdraw address belongs to you or send it to another known and approved exchange.

 

To withdraw to a private address on your own wallet on your own computer you need to cryptographically sign a message known only to the exchange with the address in questions private key and upload the signature before they will allow the withdrawal.

They will then recreate the address using the public key derived from the private key in your wallet and verify the message is signed correctly by this same private key which corresponds with the public key used to create the address. The only way to verify a cryptographically signed message is to disclose the public key - which is an important point here and related to address reuse which is a security thing.

Most people will have no idea what any of the above means never mind understand what they're doing if they follow the procedure so I guess this whole system is designed to register your Bitcoin addresses for those who actually do it or keep funds on exchanges by discouraging people from making withdrawals.

 

I believe there is zero expectation of privacy regarding these addresses. These 'VASPs' as they are known are required to share the information - with who is unclear. But once they know the address belongs to you they can then monitor how you go on to use the coins - they could do this before but now they have absolute proof that the address is registered officially to you.

 

I am very sure this kind of thing will become much more common all over the world in the next few years.

 

If you want to know more here's a couple of questions to ask at https://bard.google.com in this order :

 

Question 1 : "Please explain how the 'travel rule' affects Bitcoin withdrawals in Singapore"

 

Question 2 : "Specifically how it's implemented on UpBit - I believe private wallets are allowed but some kind of proof is required that you own the address - it's the proof that you own the Bitcoin address part that I'm interested in here and for UpBit"

 

The answers to the above 2 questions show the roadmap for the future - it will be introduced in many places, perhaps everywhere one day.

 

I have also heard of cases where people have had their Coinbase accounts closed down because they made quite a few transactions from the Coinbase withdraw address - so it is common for the exchanges to monitor what you do with the coins after you withdraw them.

All of this exists and is in place in parts of the world today

Kind of irrelevant when Binance has given all user data on exchange, all transactions off-exchange (where they underpin liquidity - satang for example) and all decentralised bridges (where they provide liquidity TRX USDT for example to the US Gov, Wallets, Transactions, IP's, KYC etc, Comms etc, which now means the US has the largest clear-cut data-set in the world to unearth who everyone is on-chain. 

 

Even if you were not directly a Binance customer chances are Binance has data on you because of the shared liquidity / Binance Cloud service. 

[Conno]

In which case it is pretty much futile trying to stay anonymous then. 

 

Given that, this may be another option for those looking to avoid Bitkub account verification headaches. Binance, in the form of Gulf Binance will be available to the majority in early 2024.

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-launch-thai-exchange-joint-venture-with-local-energy-giant

Edited November 23, 2023 by Conno

[ukrules]

11 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Even if you were not directly a Binance customer chances are Binance has data on you because of the shared liquidity / Binance Cloud service. 

 

Ok, I'm sure there's a point there but I definitely missed it.

 

I don't care if 'they' know I have some Bitcoin or not. Why would I?

 

[Jenkins9039]

5 hours ago, Conno said:

In which case it is pretty much futile trying to stay anonymous then. 

 

Given that, this may be another option for those looking to avoid Bitkub account verification headaches. Binance, in the form of Gulf Binance will be available to the majority in early 2024.

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-launch-thai-exchange-joint-venture-with-local-energy-giant

Yep no such thing as ANON now as everything will be 'tracked' from the Binance Nexos (like mentioned even if never having used Binance knowingly...

 

As for Thailand, there's a OTC here... won't point to it as don't really want my rails cut, should add if trading crypto (rather than stablecoins) consider tax ramifications for on-shore, better to do offshore (HK) and transfer into a HK account in Kasikorn then convert to THB as and when need, the HK account will be 'offshore' so its all done in person at their main branches.

[JBChiangRai]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Ok, I'm sure there's a point there but I definitely missed it.

 

I don't care if 'they' know I have some Bitcoin or not. Why would I?

 

 

 

What about being taxed on it when you sell it?

[advancebooking]

On 11/6/2023 at 2:58 PM, JBChiangRai said:

 

I have written 2 letters.

 

One to the AMLO asking for a copy of the legal requirements & guidelines for KYC of Foreign Nationals on Cryptocurrency exchanges.

 

Another to Khun Top, the CEO of BitKub expressing my astonishment at his company him removing a system that works before he has another system ready.

 

I will be sending another to the British Council in Thailand expressing surprise that they awarded Khun Top a high accolade when he is discriminating against British in Thailand (and in fact all foreign nationals).

 

I suspect there is something else at play here.  The authorities don't wany Foreigners on Cryptocurrency exchanges at any cost.

Try upbit. I got to level 4 within a week. Read this thread:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1312186-a-good-alternative-to-bitkub-upbit-thailand-allows-me-to-scan-the-chip-in-my-passport-and-complete-full-verification/#comment-18503380

[advancebooking]

On 11/6/2023 at 7:51 PM, ukrules said:

 

Admirable work. I don't use Bitkub as I heard there were many issues with verification.

 

But I do occasionally use UpBit Thailand and I am fully verified there, it's a Korean exchange which operates in various South East Asian countries, including Thailand.

 

I received an email from them over the weekend about this new enhanced verification requirement and they specifically stated that foreigners can do this 'DIP Chip' thing using a modern day passport which contains whatever chip it is that is used - presumably it's the NFC 'chip' in the passports.

 

I have until some time in December to complete this.

 

Based on what UpBit have said it appears that there is a way to process foreigners ID confirmation with some app and their passports and it's done at 7/11 in a similar manner to how a Thai would do it using their national ID card at 7/11.

 

I haven't done it yet though, but they say it is possible.

 

They also mentioned that if it doesn't work, which I guess is possible for some passports then there are other documents that can be uploaded to complete the verification process - the webpage didn't list what these documents are.

Try upbit. I got to level 4 within a week. Read this thread:

 

[advancebooking]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:46 AM, JeffersLos said:

As long as we can keep what we already bought and store on BK, and then sell them and cash out to our Thai bank account it's okay for me. I'm not interested in trading on it or buying more through them. 

Try upbit. I got to level 4 within a week. Read this thread:

 

[JBChiangRai]

3 hours ago, advancebooking said:

Try upbit. I got to level 4 within a week. Read this thread:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1312186-a-good-alternative-to-bitkub-upbit-thailand-allows-me-to-scan-the-chip-in-my-passport-and-complete-full-verification/#comment-18503380

 

 

I did and got to level 4 straight away too

[piewarmer]

I can see myself walking into a 7/11 with my passport to do a chip scan and getting confused looks, I don't know what they are supposed to do.

[goldenbrwn1]

I see a few on here mentioning keeping their money off the exchanges which is right but keeping your crypto on hot wallets like MM or TW isn’t much better. I used to use ledger until they had an update which made it possible for them (or authorities) to gain access to your keys and crypto.  I use Tangem NFC cold storage and also one key , Trezor is also good but not as many options as the other 2 for storage . 👍

Edited November 30, 2023 by goldenbrwn1

[patman30]

55 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

I see a few on here mentioning keeping their money off the exchanges which is right but keeping your crypto on hot wallets like MM or TW isn’t much better. I used to use ledger until they had an update which made it possible for them (or authorities) to gain access to your keys and crypto.  I use Tangem NFC cold storage and also one key , Trezor is also good but not as many options as the other 2 for storage . 👍

for cold storage, you can also skip the fancy hardware
and simply keep a list of private keys on an encrypted spreadsheet
and copy to a few USB sticks and SD cards
(obviously nothing lasts forever, of course USB/SDs will need replacing in 5-10 years)

[goldenbrwn1]

53 minutes ago, patman30 said:

for cold storage, you can also skip the fancy hardware
and simply keep a list of private keys on an encrypted spreadsheet
and copy to a few USB sticks and SD cards
(obviously nothing lasts forever, of course USB/SDs will need replacing in 5-10 years)

Tangem isn’t really fancy tbh . And not expensive . Worth a look imo 👍

[ukrules]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:38 PM, piewarmer said:

I can see myself walking into a 7/11 with my passport to do a chip scan and getting confused looks, I don't know what they are supposed to do.

 

I think you do the passport scan yourself on an app.

 

[Digitalbanana]

Just reading about this first time today. The Bitkub home page is confusing me, do we all have to update our KYC info again or if it says verified from two years ago we don't need to do anything?

 

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Digitalbanana said:

Just reading about this first time today. The Bitkub home page is confusing me, do we all have to update our KYC info again or if it says verified from two years ago we don't need to do anything?

 

 

You will be asked every 2 years I think

[Digitalbanana]

OK, thanks. I just found an email from them saying I need to update the KYC documents. I tried it and the link doesn't work for foreigners. I liquidated my crypto to THB and initiated a transfer to my linked KBank they say takes 24 hours - lets see. Bye bye Bitkub.

[Digitalbanana]

1 hour ago, Digitalbanana said:

KBank they say takes 24 hours - lets see.

Actually took a few minutes, there was an email asking to confirm the tx out and after OK the money in KBank in a matter of seconds. So thats BX and now Bitkub done and dusted, won't be trying any more Thai exchanges.

[Digitalbanana]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:46 PM, Celsius said:

You can deposit into paypal.

 

Cannot you also withdraw/deposit to/from a bank without need for Paypal?

[ukrules]

17 minutes ago, Digitalbanana said:

won't be trying any more Thai exchanges.

 

UpBit Thailand works with foreigners. It's foreign owned (Korea) which is likely what makes all the difference.

 

[uncletiger]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:20 AM, YaDongImproved said:

That’s we want to test, if it applies to foreigners or not. Do note the word “people” and not Thais or citizen.  The fact that foreigners can’t withdraw just like someone said, when you use the platforms for years, is discriminatory. And think Bitkub will negotiate and just agree to KYC but right now, yes, they apologized, find excuses but they really keep me from getting it in Thailand. My account here is only linked to Bitkub and it has been weeks and weeks.

 

Hi YaDongImproved.

 

I am wondering if there is any update to this? I am in the same situation, and have been patiently waiting for the last couple of months for Bitkub to resolve this, but I am nearing the end of my patience. Sure, I can transfer all of my assets to my Thai wife, but that really isn't the point here.  I really would like to understand what is the issue with this? It can't be that hard to come up with a procedure to KYC foreigners. Even a very slow one by mail. But something.

 

Mailed a whole bunch of people, including Topp. But no useful response.

 

Is there any update you can give us on this? Did it fizzle, or is it still moving ahead?

 

[Sigma6]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:08 AM, Digitalbanana said:

OK, thanks. I just found an email from them saying I need to update the KYC documents. I tried it and the link doesn't work for foreigners. I liquidated my crypto to THB and initiated a transfer to my linked KBank they say takes 24 hours - lets see. Bye bye Bitkub.

 

So we can still sell to thb and cash out without the impossible KYC??

[advancebooking]

13 hours ago, uncletiger said:

 

Hi YaDongImproved.

 

I am wondering if there is any update to this? I am in the same situation, and have been patiently waiting for the last couple of months for Bitkub to resolve this, but I am nearing the end of my patience. Sure, I can transfer all of my assets to my Thai wife, but that really isn't the point here.  I really would like to understand what is the issue with this? It can't be that hard to come up with a procedure to KYC foreigners. Even a very slow one by mail. But something.

 

Mailed a whole bunch of people, including Topp. But no useful response.

 

Is there any update you can give us on this? Did it fizzle, or is it still moving ahead?

 

Why are you wasting your time with bitkub?? Upbit is really good. Get verified so easily. Please use your intelligence and move to a real exchange. 

[advancebooking]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:49 PM, Digitalbanana said:

Just reading about this first time today. The Bitkub home page is confusing me, do we all have to update our KYC info again or if it says verified from two years ago we don't need to do anything?

 

Dont know why but some foreigners accounts like yours is not being suspended. But maybe soon. Move to UpBit exchange Read above about how easy it is to get verified. 

[BKKBike09]

5 hours ago, advancebooking said:

Move to UpBit exchange Read above about how easy it is to get verified. 

 

UpBit had my vote until I told them I needed to change my nationality to Thai from foreign (I opened account before I got Thai nationality) ... not possible. Have to either re-verify with original foreign passport, or close account completely and start from scratch. 

 

I'm doing the latter. The re-verification process is a PITA. I haven't "requested an identity update" - that's all on them forcing it on long-standing customers who've already been through all their KYC and have local bank account linked etc.

 

 

Thank you for choosing Upbit Thailand. Since you have requested an identity update via the Upbit system, we would like to inform you about documents required in the re-verification process that should be prepared before you confirm your account demotion. 

 

To do re-verification, we need to demote your account which means you have to upload all additional documents in the system referring to these criteria below:

 

Criteria no. 1: Non-Thai Nationality Residing in Thailand (2 Documents)
 

Please send one of the following documents : 

• Household registration (Yellow house book -- Thor.Ror. 13) with a 13-digit identification number
• Work permit issued by the Thai government
• Non-Immigrant visa or Smart Visa

And one of the following documents :

• ID issued by the governmental authority of the customer's country e.g. an identification card, a driving license
• ID via SWIFT authentication or notarized ID
• Employment certification together with the ID card or a company affidavit of the employer (for those who work in Thailand)
• Resident permit in Thailand
• Educational certificate issued by an education institution in Thailand

 

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

• Household registration (Yellow house book -- Thor.Ror. 13) with a 13-digit identification number
• Work permit issued by the Thai government
• Non-Immigrant visa or Smart Visa

 

Well I don't have any of those, I'm on a Thailand Elite visa which is not a non immigrant or smart visa.

 

I checked with their support and they confirm that the Elite visa is ok to use as well as non immigrant / smart visas.

[luckyblock token]

I received email today for new KYC,  why they fool customers for not telling foreigners are not accepted.

for some years it was a good exchange, now it is over, I am not sad to leave this garbage for good.

[Conno]

luckyblock token - Expecting something similar for my account with them too and have also been with them for years. Meanwhile :-

 

I have just today started the process of verification Lv l2 with UpBit.  I think my first attempt may be rejected as I also don't have some of the limited options docs they are requesting. I'm also on a Thai Elite visa so have submitted all the ID, visa and stamps info I do have. Will let you know how it goes. 

Edited February 7 by Conno

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, Conno said:

luckyblock token - Expecting something similar for my account with them too and have also been with them for years. Meanwhile :-

 

I have just today started the process of verification Lv l2 with UpBit.  I think my first attempt may be rejected as I also don't have some of the limited options docs they are requesting. I'm also on a Thai Elite visa so have submitted all the ID, visa and stamps info I do have. Will let you know how it goes. 

 

They told me they will accept the Thailand Elite visa but my problem is the foreign id card / driving license.

 

My UK license expired, I got a new one but it's sitting on a shelf in the UK....so I can't verify at the moment.

 

I'll have it mailed out - however this is not an optimal solution for people from the UK as we don't have ID cards and you're not supposed to renew your driving license while living abroad and I can't be bothered to get any of the other options - too much hassle right now.

 

[Conno]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

They told me they will accept the Thailand Elite visa but my problem is the foreign id card / driving license.

 

My UK license expired, I got a new one but it's sitting on a shelf in the UK....so I can't verify at the moment.

 

I'll have it mailed out - however this is not an optimal solution for people from the UK as we don't have ID cards and you're not supposed to renew your driving license while living abroad and I can't be bothered to get any of the other options - too much hassle right now.

 

I have had multi failed submissions so far, been on it all afternoon what a complete ball ache all of this is. Firstly it was telling me incorrect image size, blurred, reflection etc so resubmitted. Then it was the UK ID card thing which as you say we don't have one. Told them we are issued with passports only, so they replied UK or Thai driving license. Don't have a Thai driving license as my other half does all the driving these days and I've just got used to that routine. So submitted my UK one and now waiting to see if they will accept that. Other stuff like Yellow book for my apartment don't have one of those either. Have some Blue Book thing and Chanote so submitted those along with utility bills showing my address. Never had a residency permit also, what is one of those anyway?. Thought paying an arm and a leg for a 20 year Elite would be all you'd ever needed to do.

 

They have been replying pretty quickly so expecting another rejection any minute lol. Haven't even got to the Bank verification bit yet...... Jeeeze Louise!

 

Signs of the time in 2024 I'm afraid, the financial noose just keeps getting tighter and tighter for the average Joe. Can you imagine this scenario. Bitcoin goes ballistic in the next few years and we could be the only millionaires on the planet who can't spend any of it because we are farangs living permanently in Thailand. 

 

In fact that potentially could become a reality rather than a joke so I shouldn't jest.

 

Update 30 minutes later - Lvl 2 approved moving on to the bank Lvl 3 stuff now. 

 

 

Edited February 7 by Conno