Israel and Hamas fight house-to-house battles across Gaza

[Morch]

22 minutes ago, placeholder said:

More evasion from you. Those 4 generals contended that the 2 goals of defeating Hamas and getting the hostages back are not compatible. Eisin did at length go on about not trusting Hamas and no deal with them should be attempted. What she never did was to  address the issue of whether or not those 2 desired outcomes are mutually exclusive. What she offered were reasons not to negotiate with Hamas. That's a different issue. She never addressed how it is that Israel can accomplish both goals.

No doubt that Eisin is a very accomplished person. Which makes it even more dubious, given her failure to explain how the desired outcome was possible, that either she or those Israelis in command of the war effort have an answer for it.

 

You do you. That is, you get hung on something, usually following an article in the NYT or such, about an issue which you do not actually know much about. What you do then is push it on  and on as if it's gospel, and the only valid point of view. If posters do not play along, you whine about 'evasion' or 'not addressing points' - while at the same time ignoring much of what is said, and repeating the same message on loop.

 

Maybe your notion that there are clear answers to things, and that these are found in them articles you are obsessed with is an illusion. What she says is credible and reasonable. It does not encompass all aspects? Sure. It doesn't answer all relevant points? Obviously. What of it?

 

What's dubious is that you actually have a point, or that you care much beyond arguing.

[placeholder]

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You do you. That is, you get hung on something, usually following an article in the NYT or such, about an issue which you do not actually know much about. What you do then is push it on  and on as if it's gospel, and the only valid point of view. If posters do not play along, you whine about 'evasion' or 'not addressing points' - while at the same time ignoring much of what is said, and repeating the same message on loop.

 

Maybe your notion that there are clear answers to things, and that these are found in them articles you are obsessed with is an illusion. What she says is credible and reasonable. It does not encompass all aspects? Sure. It doesn't answer all relevant points? Obviously. What of it?

 

What's dubious is that you actually have a point, or that you care much beyond arguing.

Well, Since you're going on about my alleged modus operandi, let me take a moment to analyze yours..When you don't have facts to back you up, and you can't find the flaws in the reasoning of someone you disagree with you go for abuse instead. You make claims about past behavior which, whether accurate or not, would take a laborious amount of effort to counter. In other words, when you're cornered you take cheap shots.

 

As for the issue at hand, which is what this thread should be about, if there is no clear answer, why didn't Eisin just say so?  She doesn't. As I pointed out, her admonitions against negotiating with Hamas does not address the issue. Much of the rest of what she says is about Israel having to pay a terrible price. A ;price for what? She doesn't actually specify.  But if you can point to where she does explicitly address the issue she was asked to comment on, please share it with the rest of us. Do you understand that she was being asked by the interviewer a specific question? All you need to do  is note the exact minute and second where she does so.  What could be simpler than that?

As it is, I stand by my belief that she is clearly being evasive.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

What were the names of those 4 generals, only the IDF have no record of this.

 

Its amazing how one person (Eisen) does not have all the answers to this and how you are so critical of her but then again, not so amazing I guess. The bonus is at least you have her name now eh....

 

The thing is, if she didn't have an answer why not say so instead of meandering? The issue was put straightforwardly enough by the  interviewer.

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

The thing is, if she didn't have an answer why not say so instead of meandering? The issue was put straightforwardly enough by the  interviewer.

Oh I know. Absolutely terrible. Can't stop thinking about it me.

Goodnight

 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oh I know. Absolutely terrible. Can't stop thinking about it me.

Goodnight

 

?????????????????????

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

?????????????????????

Good night is zzzzzzzzzz

[Morch]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Well, Since you're going on about my alleged modus operandi, let me take a moment to analyze yours..When you don't have facts to back you up, and you can't find the flaws in the reasoning of someone you disagree with you go for abuse instead. You make claims about past behavior which, whether accurate or not, would take a laborious amount of effort to counter. In other words, when you're cornered you take cheap shots.

 

As for the issue at hand, which is what this thread should be about, if there is no clear answer, why didn't Eisin just say so?  She doesn't. As I pointed out, her admonitions against negotiating with Hamas does not address the issue. Much of the rest of what she says is about Israel having to pay a terrible price. A ;price for what? She doesn't actually specify.  But if you can point to where she does explicitly address the issue she was asked to comment on, please share it with the rest of us. Do you understand that she was being asked by the interviewer a specific question? All you need to do  is note the exact minute and second where she does so.  What could be simpler than that?

As it is, I stand by my belief that she is clearly being evasive.

 

Alleged how? I'm hardly the only one to denounce your posting habits. As for your nonsense - how do you mean 'can't find flaws' ? That happens only in your mind. I point out to flaws in your comments quite often. Not cheap shots, just no patience anymore for the likes of you. Cornered? You must have a real warped perception of things, don't think I ever felt 'cornered' by anything you posted. Projecting much?

 

And no, you do not get to dictate what is 'the issue at hand'. You do not get to tell what the thread 'should be about'. The topic is in the header. It's not what you decide it is.

 

You're just repeating things on loop, ignoring what others posters say. Apparently now you apply the same tactics toward the person interviewed. Like she's complected to address your points, or provide the answers you approve of. Bizarre.

 

You do not speak for any 'us'. And what you believe is not very interesting.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

Not surprised you don't know what ????????? means? You certainly haven't demonstrated much of an aptitude for answering questions.

Did I say I don't know what this means? Do you know what goodnight means?

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Alleged how? I'm hardly the only one to denounce your posting habits. As for your nonsense - how do you mean 'can't find flaws' ? That happens only in your mind. I point out to flaws in your comments quite often. Not cheap shots, just no patience anymore for the likes of you. Cornered? You must have a real warped perception of things, don't think I ever felt 'cornered' by anything you posted. Projecting much?

 

And no, you do not get to dictate what is 'the issue at hand'. You do not get to tell what the thread 'should be about'. The topic is in the header. It's not what you decide it is.

 

You're just repeating things on loop, ignoring what others posters say. Apparently now you apply the same tactics toward the person interviewed. Like she's complected to address your points, or provide the answers you approve of. Bizarre.

 

You do not speak for any 'us'. And what you believe is not very interesting.

You're right. You're not the only person. Generally, though, they're the kind of folks who believe that a certain election was stolen or that global warming is a fake or the the government is faking statistics to make the current US administration look better. 

 

Instead of going on and on about my flaws, why not show where I got it wrong about what Eisin said. I asked you already. Why is that such a difficult or unreasonable request?

 

As for dictating the issue at hand, BkkBrian inserted the interview with Eisin. I just pointed out she didn't respond saliently to the interviewer's question about whether the goals of saving the hostages and defeating Hamas were reconcilable.  

 

Where did I claim to speak for anyone but myself?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

You're right. You're not the only person. Generally, though, they're the kind of folks who believe that a certain election was stolen or that global warming is a fake or the the government is faking statistics to make the current US administration look better. 

 

Instead of going on and on about my flaws, why not show where I got it wrong about what Eisin said. I asked you already. Why is that such a difficult or unreasonable request?

 

As for dictating the issue at hand, BkkBrian inserted the interview with Eisin. I just pointed out she didn't respond saliently to the interviewer's question about whether the goals of saving the hostages and defeating Hamas were reconcilable.  

 

Where did I claim to speak for anyone but myself?

 

No, it's not just Trump fans. That would be you trying to frame what I said to fit what you want to say. Just a version of what you do in 'debate'.

 

I have addressed your nonsense point. You do not accept I have. You insist on an answer fitting your framework. That's what you do.

 

He did not 'insert' anything. And Eisin's interview is neither the focal point of this topic, nor that of the discrepancy issue between Israel's goals. You're just blowing it out of proportion, as usual.

 

Somehow, because you read a couple of articles, you seem to think you've all the answers. Or that something you agree with is the only possible answer. That's not how reality works.

 

Keeping on using that worn 'share with the rest of us' bit should address your last 'question'.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Well Russia who we know has not designated Hamas as a terrorist organization and in fact did them the honour of having Hamas leaders visit Moscow twice since Oct 7th, the last one a few days ago, have just been told this by Hamas regarding the Russian hostages:

 

Hamas rejects Moscow's request to release hostages 'captured' during Oct 7 attacks

The Hamas delegation met with Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov, following which, the Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement calling for the swift release of the hostages held in Gaza, three of whom are Russian nationals.

"The Russian side stressed the need for the speedy release of civilians captured during the attacks of 7 October 2023 and held by Palestinian factions, including three Russian citizens - A. Kozlov, A. Lobanov and A. Trufanov," the foreign ministry said in a statement.

Although none of the three were serving in the military at the time of their abduction, Hamas considers hostages within a certain age range to be soldiers. "Hamas doesn't care if they're Russian, French or whatever.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1705832592-hamas-rejects-moscow-s-request-to-release-hostages-captured-during-oct-7-attacks

 

[Bkk Brian]

Fighting intensifying around Khan Younis

 

IDF takes over Hamas HQ in Khan Yunis killing dozens of terrorists

During fighting, the Brigade's forces killed dozens of terrorists, read the statement. Additionally, the IDF reported raids of dozens of terrorist infrastructure objects as well as take-over of the Hamas headquarters in the area.

Weapons - explosives, grenades, cartridges and rockets - were located during the raid. Israeli troops are also said to have located and destroyed a house where terrorists manufactured weaponry.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1705915948-idf-takes-over-hamas-hq-in-khan-yunis-killing-dozens-of-terrorists

 

Hamas says IDF storming one Khan Younis hospital, surrounding another; no comment from IDF

Troops advanced for the first time into the al-Mawasi district near the Mediterranean Coast, west of Khan Younis, the main city in southern Gaza. There, they stormed the Al-Khair hospital and were arresting medical staff, Gaza health ministry spokesman Ashraf al Qidra tells Reuters.

There was no immediate word from Israel on the situation at the hospital. The military spokesperson’s office had no comment. Israel says its operations in Gaza are targeting Hamas, the terror group that rules the Strip, and not civilians, although Hamas is known for hiding its attack infrastructure in hospitals and other civilian locations.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-says-idf-storming-one-khan-younis-hospital-surrounding-another-no-comment-from-idf/

 

All connected to this no doubt:

'Beneath the ground, the IDF is moving closer and closer to the hostages and the position of the #Hamas leadership'

 

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

No, it's not just Trump fans. That would be you trying to frame what I said to fit what you want to say. Just a version of what you do in 'debate'.

 

I have addressed your nonsense point. You do not accept I have. You insist on an answer fitting your framework. That's what you do.

 

He did not 'insert' anything. And Eisin's interview is neither the focal point of this topic, nor that of the discrepancy issue between Israel's goals. You're just blowing it out of proportion, as usual.

 

Somehow, because you read a couple of articles, you seem to think you've all the answers. Or that something you agree with is the only possible answer. That's not how reality works.

 

Keeping on using that worn 'share with the rest of us' bit should address your last 'question'.

 

 

Let's get this straight.

I posted a link to a NYT article about 4 senior IDF commanders who believe that the twin goals of defeating Hamas and liberating the hostages are irreconcilable.

Bkk Brian posts an interview with Miri Eisen in which her interviewer specifically asks her about this article. She gives an answer which I maintain never actually addresses the question.

You accuse me of acting unreasonably because Eisen didn't offer an answer I was looking for.

I ask you to provide evidence that she did provide a relevant answer to that question.

You accuse me of hijacking the thread when all I did was point out the Eisen's answer wasn't responsive.

And from then on you repeatedly make all sort of generalizations generalizations about my posts. It's you who have hijacked this thread by making it about me rather than about the issue at hand. All you had to do was point out why I got it wrong about the relevance of Eisen's response. To date, you have offered nothing. But you have wasted a lot of pixels.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Fighting intensifying around Khan Younis

 

IDF takes over Hamas HQ in Khan Yunis killing dozens of terrorists

During fighting, the Brigade's forces killed dozens of terrorists, read the statement. Additionally, the IDF reported raids of dozens of terrorist infrastructure objects as well as take-over of the Hamas headquarters in the area.

Weapons - explosives, grenades, cartridges and rockets - were located during the raid. Israeli troops are also said to have located and destroyed a house where terrorists manufactured weaponry.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1705915948-idf-takes-over-hamas-hq-in-khan-yunis-killing-dozens-of-terrorists

 

Hamas says IDF storming one Khan Younis hospital, surrounding another; no comment from IDF

Troops advanced for the first time into the al-Mawasi district near the Mediterranean Coast, west of Khan Younis, the main city in southern Gaza. There, they stormed the Al-Khair hospital and were arresting medical staff, Gaza health ministry spokesman Ashraf al Qidra tells Reuters.

There was no immediate word from Israel on the situation at the hospital. The military spokesperson’s office had no comment. Israel says its operations in Gaza are targeting Hamas, the terror group that rules the Strip, and not civilians, although Hamas is known for hiding its attack infrastructure in hospitals and other civilian locations.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-says-idf-storming-one-khan-younis-hospital-surrounding-another-no-comment-from-idf/

 

All connected to this no doubt:

'Beneath the ground, the IDF is moving closer and closer to the hostages and the position of the #Hamas leadership'

 

As Israeli forces draw closer, will this be something that will lengthen or shorten the life span of these hostages? 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

As Israeli forces draw closer, will this be something that will lengthen or shorten the life span of these hostages? 

Personally I pray for their survival, either being rescued or through negations, I find it distasteful to put odds on the lives of innocent, children, women and men just to please your request, I have more respect for them and their families than that. I have already posted my preferred option here but it seems Hamas wants no part of it. 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Let's get this straight.

I posted a link to a NYT article about 4 senior IDF commanders who believe that the twin goals of defeating Hamas and liberating the hostages are irreconcilable.

Bkk Brian posts an interview with Miri Eisen in which her interviewer specifically asks her about this article. She gives an answer which I maintain never actually addresses the question.

You accuse me of acting unreasonably because Eisen didn't offer an answer I was looking for.

I ask you to provide evidence that she did provide a relevant answer to that question.

You accuse me of hijacking the thread when all I did was point out the Eisen's answer wasn't responsive.

And from then on you repeatedly make all sort of generalizations generalizations about my posts. It's you who have hijacked this thread by making it about me rather than about the issue at hand. All you had to do was point out why I got it wrong about the relevance of Eisen's response. To date, you have offered nothing. But you have wasted a lot of pixels.

 

That would be how you see things, and how you frame them. It doesn't follow that your take is correct, factual or conforms to the way others see them.

You have a habit of stating things as fact, then treating them as such, and insisting others do so as well.

 

I'm not interested in your nonsense, in your insistence on getting answers tailored to your questions.

 

I don't have to repeat replies to your contrived 'points', 'questions', 'issues' and so on.

 

You want to make the topic about whether a person interviews exactly answered a question to your satisfaction? That's up to you. There's no reason or duty to accommodate your wishes.

 

Coming form someone who specializes in digging discussion holes, empty comments about pixel waste is a laugh.

 

Get a life.

[Bkk Brian]

The deadliest day so far for the IDF

 

Israeli military says 21 soldiers killed in Gaza

The Israeli army says 21 of its soldiers have been killed in Gaza - the deadliest day for Israeli forces since the start of their ground operation.

A spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Daniel Hagari, said it is thought a rocket-propelled grenade hit a tank near two buildings they were in.

He said the buildings exploded probably as result of mines that Israeli forces had placed there to demolish them.

The IDF says it is still investigating the details of the incident.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68065903

[rabas]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

As Israeli forces draw closer, will this be something that will lengthen or shorten the life span of these hostages? 

 

Wow, talk about having nothing. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

Wow, talk about having nothing. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?

 

Seems pretty clear to me. What's Hamas going to do with the hostages as Israeli troops draw closer?

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

ANother empty judgement.

 

No, an accurate one.

[rabas]

28 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Seems pretty clear to me. What's Hamas going to do with the hostages as Israeli troops draw closer?

 

A clear and utterly useless piece of whataboutery.  IOW, more trolling the discussion. 

 

[coolcarer]

Good to see a healthy support for Israel in the latest poll conducted in the US a couple of days ago.

 

An overwhelming majority of voters say they support Israel over Hamas in their ongoing war, according to a poll released Monday.
The Harvard CAPS-Harris poll found that 80 percent of respondents said they supported Israel over Hamas in the conflict, compared to 20 percent who said they sided with Hamas more.  

That level of support for Israel has essentially remained unchanged since last month, when a similar poll found 81 percent of respondents saying they supported Israel more.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4422008-vast-majority-of-voters-back-israel-over-hamas-poll/

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

A clear and utterly useless piece of whataboutery.  IOW, more tolling the discussion. 

I was commenting on a post by Brian BKK that said the soldiers are getting closer to the hostages. I asked if that's good or bad news for them. Why is that whataboutery?

[metisdead]

Some baiting posts and replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[Bkk Brian]

This was the 2 days ago before the new hostage offer proposal was put to Hamas by Israel yesterday. Contains scenes of the awful conditions that some 20 hostages including children were in

 

'It seems physically impossible to liberate hostages. It will only have to be through military pressure and diplomatic channels Frmr. IDF intelligence officer Raphaël Jerusalmyi breaks down the #Hamas underground tunnel city in #Gaza

 

 

[ozimoron]

Reuters is just reporting that Israel has lost 21 soldiers today. They were apparently mining a house for demolition ( a war crime) when militants fired at a nearby tank, causing the mines to explode. There's a buddhist word to describe that.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Reuters is just reporting that Israel has lost 21 soldiers today. They were apparently mining a house for demolition ( a war crime) when militants fired at a nearby tank, causing the mines to explode. There's a buddhist word to describe that.

 

@ozimoron

 

It is not a 'war crime'.

And your comment is disgusting, showing you for the Hamas fanboy you are.

[rabas]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Reuters is just reporting that Israel has lost 21 soldiers today. They were apparently mining a house for demolition ( a war crime) when militants fired at a nearby tank, causing the mines to explode. There's a buddhist word to describe that.

 

No. mining a house by itself is not a war crime. And no there is not a Buddhist word for that. 

 

But maybe your post could be considered a forum discussion crime. A crime against forum?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

No. mining a house by itself is not a war crime. And no there is not a Buddhist word for that. 

 

But maybe your post could be considered a forum discussion crime. A crime against forum?

 

The destruction of a civilian house is a war crime. Was this house "by itself"?

 

“Carrying out hostilities with the knowledge that they will systematically destroy and damage civilian housing and infrastructure, rendering an entire city – such as Gaza city - uninhabitable for civilians is a war crime,” said Balakrishnan Rajagopal, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to adequate housing.

 

The expert said systematic or widespread bombardment of housing, civilian objects and infrastructure are strictly prohibited by international humanitarian law, criminal law and human rights law.

 

“Such acts amount to war crimes and when directed against a civilian population, they also amount to crimes against humanity,” Rajagopal said.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-destroying-civilian-housing-and-infrastructure-international-crime

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The destruction of a civilian house is a war crime. Was this house "by itself"?

 

“Carrying out hostilities with the knowledge that they will systematically destroy and damage civilian housing and infrastructure, rendering an entire city – such as Gaza city - uninhabitable for civilians is a war crime,” said Balakrishnan Rajagopal, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to adequate housing.

 

The expert said systematic or widespread bombardment of housing, civilian objects and infrastructure are strictly prohibited by international humanitarian law, criminal law and human rights law.

 

“Such acts amount to war crimes and when directed against a civilian population, they also amount to crimes against humanity,” Rajagopal said.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-destroying-civilian-housing-and-infrastructure-international-crime

 

@ozimoron

 

Yawn.

If a house, facility, whatever, is used by military/terrorist forces, it loses it's protected status.

This was pointed out numerous times by now, so no chance you're not aware of it.

Just being pig-headed? Trolling? Who cares.