The Problem With EVs

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The Office of Insurance Commission is the regulator of Thailand’s insurance industry operating under the supervision of the Thai Minister of Finance. 

So it is the Thai government that is defining the EV car insurance criteria from January 1st 2024 including the sliding scale 10% policy on batteries

There must be a reason behind defining a new and separate insurance criteria for EV's only 

As for you finding the find the Chinese article suspect, it's talking about one company only. its the only article I could find in English if you do a search in chinese you will find its more than one company here a quote from another company

"The accident rate of new energy vehicles is nearly twice that of fuel vehicles." Zeng Yi, general manager of China Pacific Insurance Company, said bluntly. 

 

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

it did state minimum compensation of 50% (over 5 years old) 

and the OIC is part of the Thai Goverment and these changes start in 8 days time

 

 

The article from OIC is almost 4 months old, yet we have heard nothing. I suspect it's not implemented.  time will tell.

 

 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

The article from OIC is almost 4 months old, yet we have heard nothing. I suspect it's not implemented.  time will tell.

 

 

And Both articles headlined the date Effective from 1 January 2024 onwards

https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1384213

and the sliding scale article is just 8 days old

https://ev.iphonemod.net/office-of-insurance-commission-aprrove-bev-insurance-for-2024/

As for USA EV insurance

$2300 or B80,000 for a 2023 Nissan Leaf S seems expensive to me but at least it cheaper than a 2023 Tesla model S at a whopping $4762 or B1,64788.

Electric cars tend to be more expensive when it comes to average insurance costs as well, though it varies by a vehicle’s make, model and year. The national average cost of full-coverage car insurance in 2023 is $2,024 per year. Coverage costs for the electric vehicles on this list are higher than the national average by anywhere from 10% to 135%.

https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/future-of-car-insurance-rise-of-evs/

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

And Both articles headlined the date Effective from 1 January 2024 onwards

https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1384213

and the sliding scale article is just 8 days old

https://ev.iphonemod.net/office-of-insurance-commission-aprrove-bev-insurance-for-2024/

As for USA EV insurance

$2300 or B80,000 for a 2023 Nissan Leaf S seems expensive to me but at least it cheaper than a 2023 Tesla model S at a whopping $4762 or B1,64788.

Electric cars tend to be more expensive when it comes to average insurance costs as well, though it varies by a vehicle’s make, model and year. The national average cost of full-coverage car insurance in 2023 is $2,024 per year. Coverage costs for the electric vehicles on this list are higher than the national average by anywhere from 10% to 135%.

https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/future-of-car-insurance-rise-of-evs/

 

The OIC article said there would be consultation with various groups, so it's only a fluff piece until it's finalised.

[JBChiangRai]

@vinny41 I think you have taken the position of an EV hater, and you are trying to find articles to support your position.

 

It's far better to have an open mind.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The OIC article said there would be consultation with various groups, so it's only a fluff piece until it's finalised.

Those discussions have already taken place in March of this year

EV car insurance premiums have a solution. EV Association joins with 8 companies to discuss OIC.

March 13, 2023, Mr. Kritsada Uttamote, President of the Thai Electric Vehicle Association, along with representatives from 8 car manufacturers, including SAIC Motor-CP Co., Ltd., Great Wall Motor Sales Co., Ltd. ( Thailand) Co., Ltd., Neta Auto Thailand Co., Ltd., Nissan Motor (Thailand) Co., Ltd., Mitsubishi Motors (Thailand) Co., Ltd., BMW (Thailand) Co., Ltd., Volvo Car (Thailand) Co., Ltd.

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1230190

 

When it states OIC approves EV car insurance criteria, D-Day January 2024 it sorts of means its a done deal

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Those discussions have already taken place in March of this year

EV car insurance premiums have a solution. EV Association joins with 8 companies to discuss OIC.

March 13, 2023, Mr. Kritsada Uttamote, President of the Thai Electric Vehicle Association, along with representatives from 8 car manufacturers, including SAIC Motor-CP Co., Ltd., Great Wall Motor Sales Co., Ltd. ( Thailand) Co., Ltd., Neta Auto Thailand Co., Ltd., Nissan Motor (Thailand) Co., Ltd., Mitsubishi Motors (Thailand) Co., Ltd., BMW (Thailand) Co., Ltd., Volvo Car (Thailand) Co., Ltd.

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1230190

 

When it states OIC approves EV car insurance criteria, D-Day January 2024 it sorts of means its a done deal

 

I disagree.  The article said...

 

It is expected to be finalized in September. The EV insurance policy will be implemented from January 1, 2024 onwards.

"Because it is new, there will be involvement in the system, whether it is the people, manufacturers, dealers, sales channels, insurance companies and OIC offices.

 

The article was September and yet there has to be involvement of specified third parties.  It's not a done deal until the fat lady sings.

 

We will know in a little over a week, I will attempt to insure an EV with Roojai and revert.

[vinny41]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

@vinny41 I think you have taken the position of an EV hater, and you are trying to find articles to support your position.

 

It's far better to have an open mind.

I have already explained to @Bandersnatch 

I am not an EV hater but equally I am not someone that take's much notice to a social media influencer can't cope with negative feedback

This is why people that are interested in EV's have no time for  social media influencer who throw they toys out of their prams because someone posts concerns about EV's

it is my intention to purchase an EV in 2028 when all early issues have been sorted out

At the moment I see news that SAIC has launched Battery swapping stations in China , hopefully they will develop that model for other countries 

https://cnevpost.com/2023/07/17/rising-auto-to-add-over-50-swap-stations-year-end/

SAIC have already stated that MG will have swappable batteries

Or wait for Nio to enter the Thailand market

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I disagree.  The article said...

 

It is expected to be finalized in September. The EV insurance policy will be implemented from January 1, 2024 onwards.

"Because it is new, there will be involvement in the system, whether it is the people, manufacturers, dealers, sales channels, insurance companies and OIC offices.

 

The article was September and yet there has to be involvement of specified third parties.  It's not a done deal until the fat lady sings.

 

We will know in a little over a week, I will attempt to insure an EV with Roojai and revert.

That article is from March 2023

This article is from September 2023

OIC issues EV car insurance Effective January 2024,

Effective 1 Jan. 2024

Mr. Apakorn said Last week the principles were already presented to Dr. Suthiphon Thaweechaikarn, Secretary-General of the OIC. It is expected that this will be summarized as an announcement by the Registrar in September. It will start using the EV car insurance policy. From 1 January 2024 onwards

“Because it is new. There will be a connection in the system. Whether it is the public, manufacturers, dealers, sales channels. Insurance companies and the Office of the OIC must understand each other all over again. It will take at least 3 months.”

https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1384213

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

That article is from March 2023

This article is from September 2023

OIC issues EV car insurance Effective January 2024,

Effective 1 Jan. 2024

Mr. Apakorn said Last week the principles were already presented to Dr. Suthiphon Thaweechaikarn, Secretary-General of the OIC. It is expected that this will be summarized as an announcement by the Registrar in September. It will start using the EV car insurance policy. From 1 January 2024 onwards

“Because it is new. There will be a connection in the system. Whether it is the public, manufacturers, dealers, sales channels. Insurance companies and the Office of the OIC must understand each other all over again. It will take at least 3 months.”

https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1384213

 

We will see, I suspect not.

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I have already explained to @Bandersnatch 

I am not an EV hater but equally I am not someone that take's much notice to a social media influencer can't cope with negative feedback

This is why people that are interested in EV's have no time for  social media influencer who throw they toys out of their prams because someone posts concerns about EV's

it is my intention to purchase an EV in 2028 when all early issues have been sorted out

At the moment I see news that SAIC has launched Battery swapping stations in China , hopefully they will develop that model for other countries 

https://cnevpost.com/2023/07/17/rising-auto-to-add-over-50-swap-stations-year-end/

SAIC have already stated that MG will have swappable batteries

Or wait for Nio to enter the Thailand market

 

Swapping batteries makes a lot of sense for long distance travelers.  However, I wouldn't want to rent a battery, I don't like recurring payments, usually a ruse to increase profitability.

[Bandersnatch]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I have already explained to @Bandersnatch 

I am not an EV hater but equally I am not someone that take's much notice to a social media influencer can't cope with negative feedback

This is why people that are interested in EV's have no time for  social media influencer who throw they toys out of their prams because someone posts concerns about EV's

 

Not an EV hater but you are clearly an “EV owner hater”

 

This is a thinly veiled attack on me and now the second time you have posted it.

 

You failed to acknowledge that I accepted the points that made when they were supported by evidence, which is all I was asking for.

 

I accepted the points you made on the EVs in Thailand discussion and you call that “throw they toys out of the pram because someone posts concerns about EVs”

 

You are still a “hater” in my book

 

 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Swapping batteries makes a lot of sense for long distance travelers.  However, I wouldn't want to rent a battery, I don't like recurring payments, usually a ruse to increase profitability.

Nio is offering its Chinese customers ane Europeans  to either purchase a car with Battery or purchase a car without a battery and providing a Battery rental service.

Battery can be charged in the normal method or at a Battery swap out station

where you can get a replacement fully charged battery in 5 minutes 

with the battery as a service option you never own the battery so no worries about battery degradation

if you have the 75-kwh battery and you need more powerful battery for long road trip you can rent 100-kwh battery for one month and then swap back to 75-kwh battery

https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-nio-battery-swap-stations-europe/

 

NIO ET5 Touring prices in China

Starting price with battery

75-kWh    ¥298,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥356,000 RMB

Starting Price without Battery
75-kWh ¥228,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥228,000 RMB

Battery monthly rental price
75-kWh ¥980 RMB
100-kWh ¥1,680 RMB
paying battery monthly rental for 71.5 months for 75-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery
paying battery monthly rental for 76 months for 100-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery

https://cnevpost.com/2023/06/15/nio-launches-et5-touring/

NIO Launches Battery as a Service

https://www.nio.com/news/nio-launches-battery-service

 

MY view is renting the lowest capacity battery for 99% of your vehicle journeys and paying extra for 1 month and doubling the capacity of the battery especially if your driving during a public holiday and the option of upgrading after 6 years with zero battery degradation  does sound appealing

I think in the future Insurance companies will have to have a separate criteria on Battery degradation for owners that either rent their batteries or have modular batteries such as the MG ZS which just needs to change a single battery modular that is failing rather than the entire battery

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Nio is offering its Chinese customers ane Europeans  to either purchase a car with Battery or purchase a car without a battery and providing a Battery rental service.

Battery can be charged in the normal method or at a Battery swap out station

where you can get a replacement fully charged battery in 5 minutes 

with the battery as a service option you never own the battery so no worries about battery degradation

if you have the 75-kwh battery and you need more powerful battery for long road trip you can rent 100-kwh battery for one month and then swap back to 75-kwh battery

https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-nio-battery-swap-stations-europe/

 

NIO ET5 Touring prices in China

Starting price with battery

75-kWh    ¥298,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥356,000 RMB

Starting Price without Battery
75-kWh ¥228,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥228,000 RMB

Battery monthly rental price
75-kWh ¥980 RMB
100-kWh ¥1,680 RMB
paying battery monthly rental for 71.5 months for 75-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery
paying battery monthly rental for 76 months for 100-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery

https://cnevpost.com/2023/06/15/nio-launches-et5-touring/

NIO Launches Battery as a Service

https://www.nio.com/news/nio-launches-battery-service

 

MY view is renting the lowest capacity battery for 99% of your vehicle journeys and paying extra for 1 month and doubling the capacity of the battery especially if your driving during a public holiday and the option of upgrading after 6 years with zero battery degradation  does sound appealing

I think in the future Insurance companies will have to have a separate criteria on Battery degradation for owners that either rent their batteries or have modular batteries such as the MG ZS which just needs to change a single battery modular that is failing rather than the entire battery

 

And  if you are renting the battery then it would be insured by NIO I would expect.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Not an EV hater but you are clearly an “EV owner hater”

 

This is a thinly veiled attack on me and now the second time you have posted it.

 

You failed to acknowledge that I accepted the points that made when they were supported by evidence, which is all I was asking for.

 

I accepted the points you made on the EVs in Thailand discussion and you call that “throw they toys out of the pram because someone posts concerns about EVs”

 

You are still a “hater” in my book

 

 

This is a public forum you can put forward any label you like against me but in the words of the Sir Tony Blair

 am i bothered simple answer is NO

 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

And  if you are renting the battery then it would be insured by NIO I would expect.

I think insurance is included in the monthly battery rental 

[In the jungle]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Nio is offering its Chinese customers ane Europeans  to either purchase a car with Battery or purchase a car without a battery and providing a Battery rental service.

Battery can be charged in the normal method or at a Battery swap out station

where you can get a replacement fully charged battery in 5 minutes 

with the battery as a service option you never own the battery so no worries about battery degradation

if you have the 75-kwh battery and you need more powerful battery for long road trip you can rent 100-kwh battery for one month and then swap back to 75-kwh battery

https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-nio-battery-swap-stations-europe/

 

NIO ET5 Touring prices in China

Starting price with battery

75-kWh    ¥298,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥356,000 RMB

Starting Price without Battery
75-kWh ¥228,000 RMB
100-kWh    ¥228,000 RMB

Battery monthly rental price
75-kWh ¥980 RMB
100-kWh ¥1,680 RMB
paying battery monthly rental for 71.5 months for 75-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery
paying battery monthly rental for 76 months for 100-kwh will be the same as buying car with battery

https://cnevpost.com/2023/06/15/nio-launches-et5-touring/

NIO Launches Battery as a Service

https://www.nio.com/news/nio-launches-battery-service

 

MY view is renting the lowest capacity battery for 99% of your vehicle journeys and paying extra for 1 month and doubling the capacity of the battery especially if your driving during a public holiday and the option of upgrading after 6 years with zero battery degradation  does sound appealing

I think in the future Insurance companies will have to have a separate criteria on Battery degradation for owners that either rent their batteries or have modular batteries such as the MG ZS which just needs to change a single battery modular that is failing rather than the entire battery

 

The 100 kWh battery monthly rental charge in China is more than five times what I spend on petrol in a month.  Then you have to pay more to charge it.

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

We will see, I suspect not.

Progress on new criteria for EV car insurance On December 12, 2023, the OIC or the Office of the Insurance Commission published 'Registrar Order No. 47/2023

This order will affect insurance companies. Various conditions can be added to EV car insurance policies starting January 1, 2024, but if any insurance company is unable to make changes in time, they have time to prepare until May 31, 2024 , when all insurance companies must enforce the conditions. This order

https://www.amarintv.com/spotlight/business-marketing/detail/56923

 

In addition to the main policy people can purchase additional battery coverage or Battery Replacement so that the insurance company will cover the battery 100%.

Set protection criteria for EV car chargers

Another part included in A new criterion for EV car insurance in this edition is 'EV Charger Protection', which is an additional part that car owners can choose to purchase additional insurance for their EV chargers.

The entire document can be downloaded from the Thai General Insurance Association 151 pages Thai language only 

https://www.tgia.org/gia_insurance-TH_0#:~:text=คำสั่งนายทะเบียนที่,15%2F12%2F2023 ดาวน์โหลดเอกสาร

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Progress on new criteria for EV car insurance On December 12, 2023, the OIC or the Office of the Insurance Commission published 'Registrar Order No. 47/2023

This order will affect insurance companies. Various conditions can be added to EV car insurance policies starting January 1, 2024, but if any insurance company is unable to make changes in time, they have time to prepare until May 31, 2024 , when all insurance companies must enforce the conditions. This order

https://www.amarintv.com/spotlight/business-marketing/detail/56923

 

In addition to the main policy people can purchase additional battery coverage or Battery Replacement so that the insurance company will cover the battery 100%.

Set protection criteria for EV car chargers

Another part included in A new criterion for EV car insurance in this edition is 'EV Charger Protection', which is an additional part that car owners can choose to purchase additional insurance for their EV chargers.

The entire document can be downloaded from the Thai General Insurance Association 151 pages Thai language only 

https://www.tgia.org/gia_insurance-TH_0#:~:text=คำสั่งนายทะเบียนที่,15%2F12%2F2023 ดาวน์โหลดเอกสาร

So it’s not confirmed yet

[In the jungle]

I am pretty sceptical about the idea of battery swapping.

 

EV batteries can weigh hundreds of kilos but, as well as the complications that are inherent in that, battery swapping means repeatedly making and breaking electrical contacts that carry a lot of electrical current.  That latter point is IMO a bad idea.

 

EVs seem to be moving to a form where the battery is a major structural component of the car.  I think there are good reasons for that but repeatedly removing such a structural element on anything other than a dimensionally accurate jig would make no sense.

[In the jungle]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Progress on new criteria for EV car insurance On December 12, 2023, the OIC or the Office of the Insurance Commission published 'Registrar Order No. 47/2023

This order will affect insurance companies. Various conditions can be added to EV car insurance policies starting January 1, 2024, but if any insurance company is unable to make changes in time, they have time to prepare until May 31, 2024 , when all insurance companies must enforce the conditions. This order

https://www.amarintv.com/spotlight/business-marketing/detail/56923

 

In addition to the main policy people can purchase additional battery coverage or Battery Replacement so that the insurance company will cover the battery 100%.

Set protection criteria for EV car chargers

Another part included in A new criterion for EV car insurance in this edition is 'EV Charger Protection', which is an additional part that car owners can choose to purchase additional insurance for their EV chargers.

The entire document can be downloaded from the Thai General Insurance Association 151 pages Thai language only 

https://www.tgia.org/gia_insurance-TH_0#:~:text=คำสั่งนายทะเบียนที่,15%2F12%2F2023 ดาวน์โหลดเอกสาร

 

Thai insurance companies have a track record for huge mistakes in judging the risks they are assuming.  I suspect that is why EV insurance is so much cheaper here than in Europe and the USA.

 

 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

So it’s not confirmed yet

When the the OIC or the Office of the Insurance Commission published 'Registrar Order No. 47/2023  you can take it has confirmed and  as previously stated 

The entire document can be downloaded from the Thai General Insurance Association 151 pages Thai language only 

https://www.tgia.org/gia_insurance-TH_0#:~:text=คำสั่งนายทะเบียนที่,15%2F12%2F2023 ดาวน์โหลดเอกสาร

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

I am pretty sceptical about the idea of battery swapping.

 

EV batteries can weigh hundreds of kilos but, as well as the complications that are inherent in that, battery swapping means repeatedly making and breaking electrical contacts that carry a lot of electrical current.  That latter point is IMO a bad idea.

 

EVs seem to be moving to a form where the battery is a major structural component of the car.  I think there are good reasons for that but repeatedly removing such a structural element on anything other than a dimensionally accurate jig would make no sense.

Nio has completed

Including China, Nio now has 2,217 PSSs spread across six markets, which have provided nearly 33 million battery swaps to users.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ev-manufacturer-nio-opens-30th-battery-swap-station-in-europe

[In the jungle]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Nio has completed

Including China, Nio now has 2,217 PSSs spread across six markets, which have provided nearly 33 million battery swaps to users.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ev-manufacturer-nio-opens-30th-battery-swap-station-in-europe

 

That does not demonstrate it is a good idea.  It simply means Nio have implemented it at some scale.

 

Have you looked at Nio's financial position?

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, In the jungle said:

 

That does not demonstrate it is a good idea.  It simply means Nio have implemented it at some scale.

 

Have you looked at Nio's financial position?

 

 

Building EV's is a risky business

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I’m leery of recommending Chinese stocks because of Beijing’s capriciousness. However, I tend to be more accepting of an investment in Nio. It is quickly growing sales and has support from strategic investors, government-backed though they may be. I wouldn’t take a large stake in Nio, though. Instead, a small investment would allow you to participate in the potential growth and development of a unique EV maker.

https://investorplace.com/2023/12/nio-stock-outlook-is-chinese-ev-maker-nio-worth-the-risk/

[vinny41]

Other Brands are  looking at battery swapping

The deal makes Geely (GEELY.UL), whose brands range from Volvo to Zeekr, the second automaker to sign a battery swapping partnership with Chinese electric vehicle maker Nio.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-nio-teams-up-with-geely-battery-swapping-projects-media-2023-11-29/

China's Nio, Changan Auto to jointly develop battery-swapping EVs

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/chinas-nio-partner-with-changan-auto-developing-battery-swapping-evs-2023-11-21/

Rising Auto, in collaboration with ENERGIEX, officially launched its battery swapping service in September 2022. It was jointly developed by SAIC Motor, CATL, SINOPEC, and CNPC.

https://autonews.gasgoo.com/m/70024315.html

 

While some newer condos have facilities to install EV chargers there are many condos buildings that have no facilities to  install ev chargers  ev with swappable batteries seems a good alternative

It will be interesting to find if Nio  battery swapping stations are capable of handling battery swaps from other brands

[xtrnuno41]

Fact with EV's they are allowed to make. Other engines or motors should hold.

IF Toyota is developing a motor on water in secret, you can imagine.

 

Even, if you see in that movie 2 people were murdered in the 7 ties , as they had a motor running on water, you can imagine.

It is almost at end of movie. They were offered millions to stop, didnt accept and were finished.

There are more movies about inventors killed, cq murdered. Or their inventions weren taken off market, bought and put away.

 

In the start of the 8 ties, I recall a tiny headline in newspaper on front page then, really popping out, stating on an invention to generate energy on earth movement. I never ever heard, red again from it. 

 

I thought all leaded petrol was out of the world, but no Algeria changed in 2021 ! From 2002 still 86 countries had to change .

Didnt know untill I red about it. Only the bigger, wealthier countries did already in the eighties, it seems. As from lead you get sick and it effects your brains ! When i red, just checking it moment ago, I felt pissed. How this can happen?

 

Well for EV's look at this for the history !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIHDyB9bgbA

 

So the moral is, if you try to press to other solutions, you are going down.

You dont fit in with big guys and you are an enemy.

A choice is made to have people suffer and get intoxicated with lead ,,, because of just ordinary money.

 

Though I was impressed, being in California, USA in 92, seeing many windmills generating power.

 

[JBChiangRai]

13 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Progress on new criteria for EV car insurance On December 12, 2023, the OIC or the Office of the Insurance Commission published 'Registrar Order No. 47/2023

This order will affect insurance companies. Various conditions can be added to EV car insurance policies starting January 1, 2024, but if any insurance company is unable to make changes in time, they have time to prepare until May 31, 2024 , when all insurance companies must enforce the conditions. This order

https://www.amarintv.com/spotlight/business-marketing/detail/56923

 

In addition to the main policy people can purchase additional battery coverage or Battery Replacement so that the insurance company will cover the battery 100%.

Set protection criteria for EV car chargers

Another part included in A new criterion for EV car insurance in this edition is 'EV Charger Protection', which is an additional part that car owners can choose to purchase additional insurance for their EV chargers.

The entire document can be downloaded from the Thai General Insurance Association 151 pages Thai language only 

https://www.tgia.org/gia_insurance-TH_0#:~:text=คำสั่งนายทะเบียนที่,15%2F12%2F2023 ดาวน์โหลดเอกสาร

 

So, contrary to what you were saying, this will make EV insurance cheaper and you can look at it as full cover for the battery at price X or diminishing cover for the battery at cheaper price Y.  It will be interesting to see if they remove the "any driver" option.

 

11 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Nio has completed

Including China, Nio now has 2,217 PSSs spread across six markets, which have provided nearly 33 million battery swaps to users.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ev-manufacturer-nio-opens-30th-battery-swap-station-in-europe

 

Tesla once demonstrated the automated battery swap on a Model S.  The car drove onto the machine, the machine removed and swapped the battery pack and the car drove off.  Like most of Musk's promises, they either never happen or happen years later.

 

Customers in the UK are suing Tesla for refunds on their $8,000 payment for Full Self Driving on cars they bought 4 years ago and it still hasn't been delivered.  One customer refused to sign the gagging clause and won his case, the floodgates are now open.

 

8 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Fact with EV's they are allowed to make. Other engines or motors should hold.

IF Toyota is developing a motor on water in secret, you can imagine.

 

Even, if you see in that movie 2 people were murdered in the 7 ties , as they had a motor running on water, you can imagine.

It is almost at end of movie. They were offered millions to stop, didnt accept and were finished.

There are more movies about inventors killed, cq murdered. Or their inventions weren taken off market, bought and put away.

 

In the start of the 8 ties, I recall a tiny headline in newspaper on front page then, really popping out, stating on an invention to generate energy on earth movement. I never ever heard, red again from it. 

 

I thought all leaded petrol was out of the world, but no Algeria changed in 2021 ! From 2002 still 86 countries had to change .

Didnt know untill I red about it. Only the bigger, wealthier countries did already in the eighties, it seems. As from lead you get sick and it effects your brains ! When i red, just checking it moment ago, I felt pissed. How this can happen?

 

Well for EV's look at this for the history !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIHDyB9bgbA

 

So the moral is, if you try to press to other solutions, you are going down.

You dont fit in with big guys and you are an enemy.

A choice is made to have people suffer and get intoxicated with lead ,,, because of just ordinary money.

 

Though I was impressed, being in California, USA in 92, seeing many windmills generating power.

 

 

This video is worse than clickbait, it has nothing to do with Toyota.  There is no such thing as a water engine and never will be.  It's a scientific impossibility.

 

[HighPriority]

20 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I have already explained to @Bandersnatch 

I am not an EV hater but equally I am not someone that take's much notice to a social media influencer can't cope with negative feedback

This is why people that are interested in EV's have no time for  social media influencer who throw they toys out of their prams because someone posts concerns about EV's

it is my intention to purchase an EV in 2028 when all early issues have been sorted out

At the moment I see news that SAIC has launched Battery swapping stations in China , hopefully they will develop that model for other countries 

https://cnevpost.com/2023/07/17/rising-auto-to-add-over-50-swap-stations-year-end/

SAIC have already stated that MG will have swappable batteries

Or wait for Nio to enter the Thailand market

Why 2028 ?

why not 2026 or 2039 ?

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

Why 2028 ?

why not 2026 or 2039 ?

Why do you want to know?

[HighPriority]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Why do you want to know?

Because you stated 2028 like it was a significant date, when it would appear random and unrelated to anything other than your personal financial timeline maybe… ?