Anyone Heard Of This

[ColPyat]

it is a great thing in my opinion that guns are much more scarce in thailand then they are in western countries like the usa. you saw that photo of the technical college gangs being arrested at victory monument and the huge pile of "coconut cutting" machette knifes?

another good thing thailand has going for it is that the poliece seem to do a good job of controlling illegal activity and preventing gangs to rise into power. there arent any crips or bloods in thailand as far as i know. the thai police are much more informed about these illegal matters then the police are in the west.

Guns scarce in Thailand?!

I am sorry, but it makes me wonder where you live. Illegal guns start here from 2000 Baht up for home made guns and shotguns, and everybody knows where to get them. Even i have a some upcountry, but they are just flintlocks for hunting.

Legal guns are not cheap, but easy to get a permit for. I know more people here who have guns than people who don't. Pen guns are child's toys, and go for 200 Baht.

Police is well informed, mostly because there is very little difference between police and gangsters. No, there are no crips or bloods. But there are neighborhood gangs, vocational school gangs, look nongs of local godfathers, Look nongs of regional godfathers. There are countless militias and paramilitary organisations only partially controlled by the state.

I don't know any western country apart from the states where it is as easy to get guns as here in Thailand, both legal and illegal ones.

[ColPyat]

I only use hotel rooms for sleeping.....usually out and about most of the day and night, I drink in bars and nightclubs...still havent seen a gang fight or a mulitple on one in BKK or Pattaya....nor have I seen it in any of the rural areas I have been too.

Good for you.

I have though mentioned the areas and locations where you will see the sort of violence i have described in the thread. Have you been in those?

Ever been out in the lower and lower middle class areas of Rangsit, Pathum, Navanakorn, Samlong, Samut Prakan, Rama 2, etc?

[qualtrough]

It boils down to this with a lot of forum members. When a Thai does something bad their behavior is instantly identified as a national trait, whereas when these same members are back home and they hear about or observe someone doing something bad they almost certainly identify that person as a bad person and no more. The bedrock of these member's beliefs is that all 60 million Thais exhibit identical behavioral traits, whatever their socio-economic, linguistic, regional, and ethic background. Not very far removed from the old, "They all look alike to me".

[DamianMavis]

I only use hotel rooms for sleeping.....usually out and about most of the day and night, I drink in bars and nightclubs...still havent seen a gang fight or a mulitple on one in BKK or Pattaya....nor have I seen it in any of the rural areas I have been too.

I believe you, so this is what you should do if you want to see what I'm talking about. Go to Ratchada, the bar is called BALI seafood, right in front of Hollywood and Dance Fever. This place is a pretty young crowd and they are fighting every time I go there, hence.. no matter how pretty the gilrs are my friends and I are VERY reluctant to go anymore. An argument will start, sudden violent eruption of glassware flying back and forth from one group to another with no care for the hotties getting glass shards in their face behind them. Then it gets REAL bad, many flee but some remain, suddenly its one large group chasing after one or 2 guys and from out of nowere this group all has sticks and weapons! They are swinging at the fleeing dudes full out to the head trying to bring them down. Either they get away or they drop and get beaten on the ground. Seen this a bunch of times.

Damian

[ColPyat]

It boils down to this with a lot of forum members.

Anyone in particular you mean with that?

Because i haven't seen lately many of those racist posts here in this thread.

For me it appears that there is a lot of personal perception involved here, and very little analyzes, especially under the defenders of the realm.

[qualtrough]

I only use hotel rooms for sleeping.....usually out and about most of the day and night, I drink in bars and nightclubs...still havent seen a gang fight or a mulitple on one in BKK or Pattaya....nor have I seen it in any of the rural areas I have been too.

Good for you.

I have though mentioned the areas and locations where you will see the sort of violence i have described in the thread. Have you been in those?

Ever been out in the lower and lower middle class areas of Rangsit, Pathum, Navanakorn, Samlong, Samut Prakan, Rama 2, etc?

Here we go again ColPyat. I have lived in Pathum Thani since 1995, not far from Rangsit. I have been all over that area, rich and poor, primarily by day, sometimes at night. I do not live in a housing estate or anything like it. I also spend time in Samut Prakan and Rama 2 areas. With one exception, I have never witnessed a violent act in all that time. The one exception was some cops beating the crap out of some guy a few years back outside Zeer Rangsit. I think if the areas you mention were anywhere near as dangerous as you state (equal to the worst back in the USA) I surely would have seen a bit more than that in the past 12 years. Maybe I should start making and selling my own amulets? Let me just make it clear that I am not saying that there is no violence, but that the situation is nowhere near as fearsome as you make out.

You seem like an otherwise reasonable and well-meaning person, but I think your EMT experience has warped your perception of reality. You do realize that in a couple of nights of EMT work just about anywhere in the world you will have seen the results of more violence and accidents than most people will in a lifetime, right?

[DamianMavis]

It boils down to this with a lot of forum members. When a Thai does something bad their behavior is instantly identified as a national trait, whereas when these same members are back home and they hear about or observe someone doing something bad they almost certainly identify that person as a bad person and no more. The bedrock of these member's beliefs is that all 60 million Thais exhibit identical behavioral traits, whatever their socio-economic, linguistic, regional, and ethic background. Not very far removed from the old, "They all look alike to me".

I personally don't think they are all the same, I just think group beatings on one guy are more common here when violence breaks out. I think it's cultural (somewere along the line someone is teaching them that this is acceptable, I have no idea if its the home, schools, or government), not racial.

I'd also like to say that young Asian Canadians have a reputation for viscious group attacks too... don't know why they do it, but even the white meatheads that start fights in pubs think its all wrong.

Damian

[dttk0009]

This thread is so full of stereotyping and generalizations that it makes me nauseous.

The only 'gang vs 1' fight I've ever seen happened in Ontario, Canada, and I've been in Thailand for quite some time.

Coming from Ontario figure Ill reply to this. Even though it has nothing to do with Ontario! If you stay in your room and never go out your likely to NOT see any gang on 1 fights. All the gang on one fights Ive seen first hand have been in low to mid end Thai discos. I always wonder if the posters that think this is such a rosy safe happy place ever leave their rooms or tiny living area (stay in thier community). I go all over, from ultra rich bilionaire mansions to squallor and I see some crazy sheet.

Damian

Negative. As someone who's 23 years old, I'm not really the type to sit in my apartment a lot. Also throw into the equation the fact that I grew up here, having only spent some 4 years abroad. Maybe I'm just too unlucky (lucky) to have run into situations like that. What I noticed happens frequently is getting bottles over the ol' noggin. It's happened a few times in high school where an argument between a friend and a thai dude at the bar would break out, and the thai would resort to backing off, and then coming back 10 minutes later from behind to smash a bottle over his head. I can remember one instance of a gang beating that my friends witnessed, down in a mooban in Chaeng Wattana (where we lived). My buddy was having a smoke on his balcony, and he noticed some 7 or 8 kids (around 12 years old) viciously kicking what he thought at the time was a card-board box, because he says that what it sounded like getting kicked. Turns out the next day those kids beat their friend to death. Other than that, it's just been bottles, bottles, bottles.

[vermin on arrival]

It boils down to this with a lot of forum members. When a Thai does something bad their behavior is instantly identified as a national trait, whereas when these same members are back home and they hear about or observe someone doing something bad they almost certainly identify that person as a bad person and no more. The bedrock of these member's beliefs is that all 60 million Thais exhibit identical behavioral traits, whatever their socio-economic, linguistic, regional, and ethic background. Not very far removed from the old, "They all look alike to me".

I personally don't think they are all the same, I just think group beatings on one guy are more common here when violence breaks out. I think it's cultural (somewere along the line someone is teaching them that this is acceptable, I have no idea if its the home, schools, or government), not racial.

I'd also like to say that young Asian Canadians have a reputation for viscious group attacks too... don't know why they do it, but even the white meatheads that start fights in pubs think its all wrong.

Damian

I don't think that they are all the same either Damian, and I also think that it is a cultural thing. It seems that all too often there are TV members who when they see remarks that can construed as critical of things in Thailand instantly tar the people who say it with the accusation of racism. It's very frustrating to say the least.

[Basch]

I only use hotel rooms for sleeping.....usually out and about most of the day and night, I drink in bars and nightclubs...still havent seen a gang fight or a mulitple on one in BKK or Pattaya....nor have I seen it in any of the rural areas I have been too.

I believe you, so this is what you should do if you want to see what I'm talking about. Go to Ratchada, the bar is called BALI seafood, right in front of Hollywood and Dance Fever. This place is a pretty young crowd and they are fighting every time I go there, hence.. no matter how pretty the gilrs are my friends and I are VERY reluctant to go anymore. An argument will start, sudden violent eruption of glassware flying back and forth from one group to another with no care for the hotties getting glass shards in their face behind them. Then it gets REAL bad, many flee but some remain, suddenly its one large group chasing after one or 2 guys and from out of nowere this group all has sticks and weapons! They are swinging at the fleeing dudes full out to the head trying to bring them down. Either they get away or they drop and get beaten on the ground. Seen this a bunch of times.

Damian

You always seem to be taking the words out of my mouth. I have seen the exact same thing happening the one and only time I have been to Bali seafood.

Basch

[jing jing]

Not saying that these fellas had it coming, but they did violate a few of the cardinal rules of staying out of trouble in Thailand, to wit:

Don't get too drunk in public

Don't get belligerent with the locals

Don't start fights

... okay, maybe they did have it coming.

[DamianMavis]

This thread is so full of stereotyping and generalizations that it makes me nauseous.

The only 'gang vs 1' fight I've ever seen happened in Ontario, Canada, and I've been in Thailand for quite some time.

Coming from Ontario figure Ill reply to this. Even though it has nothing to do with Ontario! If you stay in your room and never go out your likely to NOT see any gang on 1 fights. All the gang on one fights Ive seen first hand have been in low to mid end Thai discos. I always wonder if the posters that think this is such a rosy safe happy place ever leave their rooms or tiny living area (stay in thier community). I go all over, from ultra rich bilionaire mansions to squallor and I see some crazy sheet.

Damian

Negative. As someone who's 23 years old, I'm not really the type to sit in my apartment a lot. Also throw into the equation the fact that I grew up here, having only spent some 4 years abroad. Maybe I'm just too unlucky (lucky) to have run into situations like that. What I noticed happens frequently is getting bottles over the ol' noggin. It's happened a few times in high school where an argument between a friend and a thai dude at the bar would break out, and the thai would resort to backing off, and then coming back 10 minutes later from behind to smash a bottle over his head. I can remember one instance of a gang beating that my friends witnessed, down in a mooban in Chaeng Wattana (where we lived). My buddy was having a smoke on his balcony, and he noticed some 7 or 8 kids (around 12 years old) viciously kicking what he thought at the time was a card-board box, because he says that what it sounded like getting kicked. Turns out the next day those kids beat their friend to death. Other than that, it's just been bottles, bottles, bottles.

Uhm... uh... weren't you arguing against people that felt like me? hrmmm, seems like you just joined the dark side baby! If your story didnt just add more strength to our perspective I dont know what does. Where did those kids learn to gang beat another child to death and think its AOK?!

Damian

[kat]

It boils down to this with a lot of forum members. When a Thai does something bad their behavior is instantly identified as a national trait, whereas when these same members are back home and they hear about or observe someone doing something bad they almost certainly identify that person as a bad person and no more. The bedrock of these member's beliefs is that all 60 million Thais exhibit identical behavioral traits, whatever their socio-economic, linguistic, regional, and ethic background. Not very far removed from the old, "They all look alike to me".

I personally don't think they are all the same, I just think group beatings on one guy are more common here when violence breaks out. I think it's cultural (somewere along the line someone is teaching them that this is acceptable, I have no idea if its the home, schools, or government), not racial.

I'd also like to say that young Asian Canadians have a reputation for viscious group attacks too... don't know why they do it, but even the white meatheads that start fights in pubs think its all wrong.

Damian

It is CULTURAL and not racial. It is also beyond me why some people are incapable of acknowledging very real and documented cultural differences. There are stupid people, cowards, and troublemakers everywhere, but the difference between cultures is what is judged as acceptable behavior. In the west, it is considered cowardly or bad form for groups of people to pile on to someone and abuse that disadvantage. That's why we say it is not "fair" or that the mob are "cowards."

That is not the case here. It is a group society, and the issues of fairness and cowardice are simply not the issue. Here, the issue is status, advantage, and yielding to the "bigger" or more powerful group at any cost without regard to fairness. Do you drive here? The bigger trucks and cars rule the road simply because they are bigger or more powerful. Surely, it is not such a stretch to understand how that pervades other aspects of oppositional interactions here.

[dttk0009]

This thread is so full of stereotyping and generalizations that it makes me nauseous.

The only 'gang vs 1' fight I've ever seen happened in Ontario, Canada, and I've been in Thailand for quite some time.

Coming from Ontario figure Ill reply to this. Even though it has nothing to do with Ontario! If you stay in your room and never go out your likely to NOT see any gang on 1 fights. All the gang on one fights Ive seen first hand have been in low to mid end Thai discos. I always wonder if the posters that think this is such a rosy safe happy place ever leave their rooms or tiny living area (stay in thier community). I go all over, from ultra rich bilionaire mansions to squallor and I see some crazy sheet.

Damian

Negative. As someone who's 23 years old, I'm not really the type to sit in my apartment a lot. Also throw into the equation the fact that I grew up here, having only spent some 4 years abroad. Maybe I'm just too unlucky (lucky) to have run into situations like that. What I noticed happens frequently is getting bottles over the ol' noggin. It's happened a few times in high school where an argument between a friend and a thai dude at the bar would break out, and the thai would resort to backing off, and then coming back 10 minutes later from behind to smash a bottle over his head. I can remember one instance of a gang beating that my friends witnessed, down in a mooban in Chaeng Wattana (where we lived). My buddy was having a smoke on his balcony, and he noticed some 7 or 8 kids (around 12 years old) viciously kicking what he thought at the time was a card-board box, because he says that what it sounded like getting kicked. Turns out the next day those kids beat their friend to death. Other than that, it's just been bottles, bottles, bottles.

Uhm... uh... weren't you arguing against people that felt like me? hrmmm, seems like you just joined the dark side baby! If your story didnt just add more strength to our perspective I dont know what does. Where did those kids learn to gang beat another child to death and think its AOK?!

Damian

I'm arguing against comments such as 'All Thais are bloodthirsty and always fight in huge numbers', because it simply isn't true. A friend of mine from college was beaten to death 2 new years ago next to a pizza pizza in a similar manner (Etobicoke, Ontario). Are all Canadians bloodthirsty and fight only with mob mentality? Nope. Either way, reading through this thread I suppose I can count myself lucky not to have ever run into a gang fight. I've seen quite a bit of violence in this country (who hasn't, really), but the 30 vs 1 thing just never popped up.

Back to those kids in the mooban, it was a relatively poor area, and those kids were most likely hardly in school, and hardly educated by their folks, as they've been known to steal and cause other small felonies before. In fact, the motorcycle theft I mentioned in a different thread applies to this. Same area.

[kat]

I don't think recognizing cultural differences and the frequency of similar events amounts to "all Thais are bloodthirsty or this or that." However, differences exist between societies, values, and norms. If you think that there could be a fair fight between a non-thai and a thai here, either on the street or the judicial system, then you are somehow removed or shielded from this reality most likely from your own connections and status, which brings us firmly back on point.

It's about status and power here, not fairness or cowardice. In the west, "good" kids are taught how to fight "fair". People are ashamed of a "mob mentality." Over here, people need to identify their groups or "mobs" of influence in every way, from how they dress, to their phones, their associations, and in the case of young teenage boys or gangsters, to who can overpower and dominate as a group.

Edited July 21, 2007 by kat

[DamianMavis]

Intelligent lady

Damian

[vermin on arrival]

Agreed.

[kat]

Thanks for your generous comments, guys.

I just try to call things as I see it, after thinking, discussing, and testing them over and over again.

[ColPyat]

Back to those kids in the mooban, it was a relatively poor area, and those kids were most likely hardly in school, and hardly educated by their folks, as they've been known to steal and cause other small felonies before. In fact, the motorcycle theft I mentioned in a different thread applies to this. Same area.

Exactly.

And if you look at at Thai demographics, you can see that the clear majority of the population does come from such or similar socio economic sectors of society.

[KhaoNiaw]

Ever been out in the lower and lower middle class areas of Rangsit, Pathum, Navanakorn, Samlong, Samut Prakan, Rama 2, etc?

The areas you've mentioned in Samut Prakan are hardly like the Wild West.

I'm not going to say there's no violence there or that they don't meet western levels of violence. You certainly need to be aware of what's going on around you. Fact is, though, like most areas you're pretty safe walking around there during the day and at night they're much like any other lower class area of Samutprakan. Plenty of drugs around, plenty of alcohol and a volatile mix if you have a problem with the wrong people at the wrong time.

I've been around the Samrong Dai areas you mentioned dozens of times - never heard or seen a shotgun and only seen one fight which was a few rooms down from where we were having a drink with friends. No-one died.

I'm not casting any doubts on the things you've seen there because I know they happen but it's not like you walk down the street with the bodies falling down around. It's pretty much like lower class areas anywhere else.

Edited July 22, 2007 by KhaoNiaw

[ColPyat]

It is CULTURAL and not racial.

Absolutely.

I have tried to look into the reasons for those cultural differences.

I am convinced that one of the large factors is that the modern Thai state, with almost all institutions, has a policy to encourage and apologize extreme violence carried out by citizen groups against perceived and real threats. There are numerous examples of that, and it goes on even today.

[ColPyat]

Here we go again ColPyat. I have lived in Pathum Thani since 1995, not far from Rangsit. I have been all over that area, rich and poor, primarily by day, sometimes at night. I do not live in a housing estate or anything like it. I also spend time in Samut Prakan and Rama 2 areas. With one exception, I have never witnessed a violent act in all that time. The one exception was some cops beating the crap out of some guy a few years back outside Zeer Rangsit. I think if the areas you mention were anywhere near as dangerous as you state (equal to the worst back in the USA) I surely would have seen a bit more than that in the past 12 years. Maybe I should start making and selling my own amulets? Let me just make it clear that I am not saying that there is no violence, but that the situation is nowhere near as fearsome as you make out.

You seem like an otherwise reasonable and well-meaning person, but I think your EMT experience has warped your perception of reality. You do realize that in a couple of nights of EMT work just about anywhere in the world you will have seen the results of more violence and accidents than most people will in a lifetime, right?

Again, we are back with perceptions.

My perception is that my years with EMT opened my eyes to aspects of Thailand that are otherwise rather hidden. You don't just see there single events of extreme violence, but you get to know whole areas, otherwise clouded networks of underworld and police/army/local politics, how they interconnect with each other and often overlap.

Since that i have been able to connect certain dots that are generally not obvious. And that makes Thailand a very fearsome place at times, a place that is a powder keg ready to blow off as soon as certain parameters come into position, and certain events have passed.

Do you remember the destruction of sukhumvit plaza? A not that important godfather was able to send hundreds of his goons to destroy the bars and shops there, and the only person punished for this was his lawyer?

Violence in Thailand is of a very different nature than in the more violent western countries, as it goes much further up in society. Even the highest levels of the state uses such violence of informal networks at times, and encourages it.

The question here is not only the narrow discussion if there more violent incidents here or there, which for lack of comparable statistics is always a difficult discussion. Inspired by recent events such as the drugwar, and the situation in the south, for me personally far more into the foreground has moved the question to which extend such violence is condoned by the state and therefore by the society as a whole.

And that is for me increasingly troubling, when i see citizen groups being armed by the state, and given responsibilities that only trained security forces should have, all over the country.

The potential for violence here in Thailand is enormous.

[ColPyat]

Ever been out in the lower and lower middle class areas of Rangsit, Pathum, Navanakorn, Samlong, Samut Prakan, Rama 2, etc?

The areas you've mentioned in Samut Prakan are hardly like the Wild West.

I'm not going to say there's no violence there or that they don't meet western levels of violence. You certainly need to be aware of what's going on around you. Fact is, though, like most areas you're pretty safe walking around there during the day and at night they're much like any other lower class area of Samutprakan. Plenty of drugs around, plenty of alcohol and a volatile mix if you have a problem with the wrong people at the wrong time.

I've been around the Samrong Dai areas you mentioned dozens of times - never heard or seen a shotgun and only seen one fight which was a few rooms down from where we were having a drink with friends. No-one died.

I'm not casting any doubts on the things you've seen there because I know they happen but it's not like you walk down the street with the bodies falling down around. It's pretty much like lower class areas anywhere else.

Well, i believe the Wild West was also not exactly like the movies suggest.

And yes, you have to be aware what is going on around you. I though have seen shots fired, both by police, and by gangs. My wife has relatives living there. One was killed there last year in a rather gruesome way (machete).

[meemiathai]

What was the OP about? I forgot.

[bungalowbill]

I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one. I've never even heard of a fight between 2 men in this country... it just doesnt seem to happen, and there are lotsa fights. If you want to argue this go ahead, but I know what I see. I am a professional martial artsit and I don't DARE get into a fight with Thai people, I will lose, I can't fight some dude and his 10 friends and get away without serious injury, I just can't. So I swallow my pride and keep smiling. I don't think it's a phenomenon aimed at falangs though, it is just the way it is done here, they do it to eachother waaaaay more than they do it to us.

Damian Mavis

I agree and have seen several severe beatings in Chiang Mai over the past four years. Thais on Thais. Always five or more stomping the hel_l out of one. This is a collectivist culture where things are done as a group. never one on one. I think your advice is right on (don't get into a fight in Thailand)...and your a martial artist.

[Prakanong]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

Well thats an interesting viewpoint - as we have not commented on a horrendous murder we somehow condone it?

Defending Thai's may be your pastime but thats a bit much I must say

Nope, just an interesting observation that when it is Thai on Farang the broad generalizations and racist comments abound, but when an Englishman does something horrific, the response tends to be muted.

I am glad I do not look at the world through your prism is all I can say

[meemiathai]

guess what the results will be for an experiment lets say getting;

100 china men walking through the "dodgiest areas" in the US alone and see how many get out alive,

100 farangs again walking through the "dodgiest areas"(like colpyat mentioned) in thailand alone and see how many get out alive;

What is your guess, ColPyat?

[ColPyat]

guess what the results will be for an experiment lets say getting;

100 china men walking through the "dodgiest areas" in the US alone and see how many get out alive,

100 farangs again walking through the "dodgiest areas"(like colpyat mentioned) in thailand alone and see how many get out alive;

What is your guess, ColPyat?

It all depends on what you want to prove.

If you want to prove that racially inspired violence in the US is higher than in Thailand, than i fear that you will be successful with your "experiment". Thailand is though catching up. But most likely in both countries 100% of the participants of that experiment will come out alive.

Unless if we are talking about the really dodgiest areas in Thailand, that being the red zones of the three southern provinces - i fear that things might be a bit different if some walkabout there is attempted by anyone.

Anyhow, it just hypothetical and speculation. I personally prefer to look at the role of violence as a whole in cultural norms.

I do hesitate though to bring up the US as an example for the west. The US is maybe the most violence prone society of western civilization, and being European, i resent being put into the same box. There are huge differences.

[Bill97]

Tourists beaten by 30-man gang

A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday (July 15th) morning,

Patrick and two other men _ William Paul Stone and Francis Benjamin Peter _ were taken to a hospital. But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived,

2 arrests and 30 attackers??

Edited July 22, 2007 by Bill97

[longway]

I don't think recognizing cultural differences and the frequency of similar events amounts to "all Thais are bloodthirsty or this or that." However, differences exist between societies, values, and norms. If you think that there could be a fair fight between a non-thai and a thai here, either on the street or the judicial system, then you are somehow removed or shielded from this reality most likely from your own connections and status, which brings us firmly back on point.

It's about status and power here, not fairness or cowardice. In the west, "good" kids are taught how to fight "fair". People are ashamed of a "mob mentality." Over here, people need to identify their groups or "mobs" of influence in every way, from how they dress, to their phones, their associations, and in the case of young teenage boys or gangsters, to who can overpower and dominate as a group.

i wont disagree there alot of mob fights but hv seen at least 2 fights between a thai and farang one on one. also back home when i grew up chased from time to time by a local gang of 4-5 skinheads, not that they did much when we grouped together.

in fact the last time i had a problem is bkk was with 4 farangs who who didnt seem to give a toss about 'fairness' or whether theyw ere being cowardly or not.

i think here 'good kids' are taught not to fight at all.